The sense of entitlement in these forums are astonishing. Nobody owes you a damn thing in the business world. This is a case (it seems) that we have a lot of "experts" in the Business field that has come here to dictate how others should run their businesses. People can spin it, add caveats to the argument and rules until they are blue in the face but the simple fact will ALWAYS REMAIN IN BUSINESS. "If you have a product enough people WANT, not only will the business survive it will thrive" If not, you will not be a successful company. It is such a simple concept that keeps being missed by many here. Going by several people's argument here....I guess Walmart which is the biggest company in the world should just "give things away" because they already have enough money.
-Rig
Nobody owes us a damn thing in the business world, and we don't owe anything to the business world either. So our money is definitely not a given to them, as you pointed out earlier.
Now, there is also this thing called "competition", where if someone else offers an equivalent product at a cheaper price, then mechanically people will minimize their expenses and go for the cheaper product. And there are loads of quality games for free these days, or even for a simple box price.
Frankly, if they can sustain their chosen model in the current MMO market (which would absolutely validate it as a viable model), then I would say good for them because they would make a ton of money then.
What seems to be the case instead is that a significant portion of the player base is "uncomfortable" with the price + sub (the proof: ESO felt the need to justify their sub price in a press release).
Moreover, judging by recent MMO releases, the box + sub model hasn't been a success.
Walmart would sell you a tomato for $50 if they could, and if you had no choice but to buy it from them. If other shops were starting to give away tomatoes for free, yes Walmart would probably start to give away tomatoes for free. It's not love, just business. Now, fortunately for you, you have the choice of supermarket, and fortunately for Walmart, nobody is giving away free tomatoes.
Fortunately for MMO players, they have a choice too. Unfortunately for ESO, some competitors are giving away free tomatoes.
Sense of entitlement =/= personal desire to spend (or not) money on the game. Will ESO be the best choice? It certainly is for some players.
Will these players be enough to sustain the game? The so called experts on this forum don't think it will be the case. Time will tell of course.
The sense of entitlement in these forums are astonishing. Nobody owes you a damn thing in the business world. This is a case (it seems) that we have a lot of "experts" in the Business field that has come here to dictate how others should run their businesses. People can spin it, add caveats to the argument and rules until they are blue in the face but the simple fact will ALWAYS REMAIN IN BUSINESS. "If you have a product enough people WANT, not only will the business survive it will thrive" If not, you will not be a successful company. It is such a simple concept that keeps being missed by many here. Going by several people's argument here....I guess Walmart which is the biggest company in the world should just "give things away" because they already have enough money.
-Rig
Nobody owes us a damn thing in the business world, and we don't owe anything to the business world either. So our money is definitely not a given to them, as you pointed out earlier.
Now, there is also this thing called "competition", where if someone else offers an equivalent product at a cheaper price, then mechanically people will minimize their expenses and go for the cheaper product. And there are loads of quality games for free these days, or even for a simple box price.
Frankly, if they can sustain their chosen model in the current MMO market (which would absolutely validate it as a viable model), then I would say good for them because they would make a ton of money then.
What seems to be the case instead is that a significant portion of the player base instead is "uncomfortable" with the price + sub (the proof: ESO felt the need to justify their sub price in a press release).
Moreover, judging by recent MMO releases, the box + sub model hasn't been a success.
Walmart would sell you a tomato for $50 if they could, and if you had no choice but to buy it from them. If other shops were starting to give away tomatoes for free, yes Walmart would probably start to give away tomatoes for free. It's not love, just business. Now, fortunately for you, you have the choice of supermarket, and fortunately for Walmart, nobody is giving away free tomatoes.
Fortunately for MMO players, they have a choice too. Unfortunately for ESO, some competitors are giving away free tomatoes.
Sense of entitlement =/= personal desire to spend (or not) money on the game. Will ESO be the best choice? It certainly is for some players.
Will these players be enough to sustain the game? The so called experts on this forum don't think it will be the case. Time will tell of course.
people who want the game to be free to play are jobless and living off unemployment and welfare. they want to be able to enjoy the perks of life that those of with jobs can afford. they are too lazy to change their circumstances and instead complain because they cannot afford something.
And yet they can afford the latest PC to run TESO in all its glory..damn these jobless people!!!
Walmart would sell you a tomato for $50 if they could, and if you had no choice but to buy it from them. If other shops were starting to give away tomatoes for free, yes Walmart would probably start to give away tomatoes for free. It's not love, just business. Now, fortunately for you, you have the choice of supermarket, and fortunately for Walmart, nobody is giving away free tomatoes.
Fortunately for MMO players, they have a choice too. Unfortunately for ESO, some competitors are giving away free tomatoes.
Pretty much this.
People act as if they don't work and don't work for companies (some might be self employed but I imagine they charge a "competitive" fee for their product.)
How many of us have negotiated higher salaries? Were we being greedy or did we believe we were worth those salaries?
If we could charge a million per year and get away with it why wouldn't we?
If a company can get what they want for their product then they stay successful, employ people, make new products. If they charge too much then no one buys their products and they need to adjust accordingly.
Unless an organization is non-profit then they exist to make money. And if they are part of a publicly traded company then they "have to" make money and have to take advantage of whatever it takes to make money. Heck, stock holders can hold the company accountable if they aren't making money.
Whether or not ESO can give players a decent product and one that deserves their fee, time will tell.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It is so quaint to accuse anyone of being "greedy" in this day and age.
Getting as much as you can while you can is de rigueur, especially in for profit enterprises traded publicly. The only relevant question is how unobtrusively one can get money from customers before said customers feel offended. The market itself is devoid of morality. It is cold and rational.
The word greed implies sinful, unethical, or immoral behavior. If you wish to pursue this line of thought and argument, then you would be best served by reading What Money Can't Buy: The Moral Limits of Markets, by Michael Sandel. I think then that the discussion would be more interesting and well reasoned, and possibly productive.
Everyone has their opinion. Mine is that they haven't stuck to their word very well and seem to be doing all they can to get some extra bucks. Some people don't care that they haven't shown a lot of integrity - I do. I won't boycott the game because of it, I find it very fun, but I can say their decisions with the cash shop, Imperials, explorer's pack etc have left a bad taste in my mouth since they directly said they wouldn't do things like that.
Also, I feel 100% confident that cash shop will continue to expand with more and more things. That slow boil of the frog and all that. And I feel strongly they already have F2P designed for this game and are only launching with a sub model for the box sale boom at the beginning.
But again, it's a business and they of course are designed to make money. I don't fault them for that. For me really it's the deception, dishonesty, and way they are going about getting the money, which I see as somewhat questionable and shady.
Originally posted by askdaboss Nobody owes us a damn thing in the business world, and we don't owe anything to the business world either. So our money is definitely not a given to them, as you pointed out earlier.Now, there is also this thing called "competition", where if someone else offers an equivalent product at a cheaper price, then mechanically people will minimize their expenses and go for the cheaper product. And there are loads of quality games for free these days, or even for a simple box price.Frankly, if they can sustain their chosen model in the current MMO market (which would absolutely validate it as a viable model), then I would say good for them because they would make a ton of money then.What seems to be the case instead is that a significant portion of the player base is "uncomfortable" with the price + sub (the proof: ESO felt the need to justify their sub price in a press release).Moreover, judging by recent MMO releases, the box + sub model hasn't been a success.Walmart would sell you a tomato for $50 if they could, and if you had no choice but to buy it from them. If other shops were starting to give away tomatoes for free, yes Walmart would probably start to give away tomatoes for free. It's not love, just business. Now, fortunately for you, you have the choice of supermarket, and fortunately for Walmart, nobody is giving away free tomatoes.Fortunately for MMO players, they have a choice too. Unfortunately for ESO, some competitors are giving away free tomatoes.Sense of entitlement =/= personal desire to spend (or not) money on the game. Will ESO be the best choice? It certainly is for some players.Will these players be enough to sustain the game? The so called experts on this forum don't think it will be the case. Time will tell of course.
This is a brilliant and well thought out post. I especially like your "Unfortunately for ESO, som competitors are giving away free tomatoes". It's eloquent, adhering to basic economics theory but still written in a language that's fun and easily understood.
I really hope you either teach or at least have children.
I just feel Zenimax want to cash in fast and hard before the ship sinks like all Sub mmo's do within 4 to 8 months. make no mistake ALL sub mmo go free to play or buy to play realy fast in this age and day. Way to many choice and Zenimax just digged their own grave with losing many many potantial players by showing how greedy they are. Nothing wrong with making money, but the way you need to earn it does.
Doing a whole race behind a collecters edition is the biggest mistake you can do, maybe they can pull it off ? i think they will not.
Good thing i can vote with my wallet and i have done just that. I would have bought it otherwise tough but 80 euro + Sub + chashop ? Red Alrt incomming.
I wait a few months or a year and buy it like i did Mist of Pandaria in a garbage can for 10 euro. Better spend my coins on something more off value untill its the right price to buy.
MMO's are like buying stocks, you wait and wait and then cash in. You do not buy High when you knowt the price will drop. ESO price will drop and it will drop fast. Specialy with all that bad news thats hanging around it.
Originally posted by StarI Originally posted by CalvenOriginally posted by Rigamortis
If you don't like this development then don't buy the game.. I know I'm not going to since I don't support cash shops in subscription games.Last time I checked there was no cash shop in TESO? I'm guessing you're mixing preorder bonus with a cash shop? ESO (or rather Matt Firor) explained in a recent interview that the game would launch with a cash shop:
I love how people that want the game to be F2P always insult the game. When if they are fighting that is should be F2P means they want to play it....that hurts my brain.
Sub fees make no sense in the current mmorpg market. You can get a game just as good as this without one. Personally i uninstalled the game because even if they have another beta I don't think the game is worth my time to play, it certainly isn't worth my money.
I don't like a company charging a subscription and having a cash shop.I don't like it.Special race only in the collectors edition.I don't like it.
Unlike some government programs...I'm not compelled to buy it.
No need to complain over what a company charges for its product. Just don't buy it if you don't want to.
I dont think anyone can really say its the worst game ever.
But it IS very, very mediocre in my view and already has the hallmarks of a Freemium cash grab.
The game in it's current state is DEFINITELY not worth getting triple dipped over by high box price, full price monthly sub AND additional cash shop purchases of content that should be included in the sub to begin with.
So yes, I think ZOS are being far too greedy and it will come back to haunt them.
If you buy the imperial edition you do not have anything to buy in the "cash shop", if you buy the standard the box price is not high in comparison to other similar games, and what is "full price monthly sub"?
Sub fees make no sense in the current mmorpg market. You can get a game just as good as this without one. Personally i uninstalled the game because even if they have another beta I don't think the game is worth my time to play, it certainly isn't worth my money.
Wow and Eve disagree. What game is "just as good...without one"?
Originally posted by obake90I been reading on ESO Forums and MMORPG forums, that ESO has been very greedy.People saying they are leaving the game because of the cash shop, Sub, and the price of the edition. People saying it should be free to play.My question is why? Why should it be f2p, why are you mad about a cash shop, why are you saying the edition is high?"well, this person payed this much more then me so he has a better so and so, "Really? So if you go to a hotel and pay for the room at Priceline.com you should get the same room as if a person who's been a loyal customer and paying a higher fee?" I'm not going to pay for the sub, it should be free"This is a luxury, if you don't have the money don't even think about playing a game, you should spend your extra time making more money, you cheap bast***. $15 a month, hmm two people for a movie is $20.00 for 2hours...." They said this and that, I want to cancel my pre order (cash shop) "Things happen, things change, that's life.Who cares if they charge this or that, its really up to you at the end if you are going to buy it or shop at the cash shop, who cares if the dude next to you spent $20 on a brown horse. This company needs to make money you know why? because its a company, they need to pay the DEVS for their hard work and make more games in the future." But i payed $70 mostly for the imperial race and after the few months people can buy it for a lower price".You pay 10.00 to see a movie on the big screen but a few months later you can rent it for 1.00 on redbox...
Why are you trying to shove your game down our throats? People don't think it's fun enough for a sub people are tired of the industry coming out with this and us to pay for something like that.I have the money again i spent mine on new streetbike tire for my cbr600 f4i for bike week.I think that was a more logical investment then an un-innovative game. I have other games i have already paid for that has it's standards.
No one is shoving anything down anyone's throats.. you don't think it's worth the money.. don't play.. It's simple. No reason to get angry. Just don't play.
exactly and i think that is the problem right there. instead of just realizing it's not for them and moving on, they feel anger and even betrayal by these companies because they are not making the game just for them or giving it to them totally free.
it's a real problem for this genre and i don't think there is anything any developer can do about it, the problem is the consumers themselves.
Originally posted by ironsideIV Originally posted by ShadanwolfI don't like a company charging a subscription and having a cash shop.I don't like it.Special race only in the collectors edition.I don't like it.Unlike some government programs...I'm not compelled to buy it.No need to complain over what a company charges for its product. Just don't buy it if you don't want to.
I dont think anyone can really say its the worst game ever.
But it IS very, very mediocre in my view and already has the hallmarks of a Freemium cash grab.
The game in it's current state is DEFINITELY not worth getting triple dipped over by high box price, full price monthly sub AND additional cash shop purchases of content that should be included in the sub to begin with.
So yes, I think ZOS are being far too greedy and it will come back to haunt them.
if you buy the IE you don't need to buy anything else on their website, you are not being triple dipped, that is your paranoia talking lol
Originally posted by Ender4 Sub fees make no sense in the current mmorpg market. You can get a game just as good as this without one. Personally i uninstalled the game because even if they have another beta I don't think the game is worth my time to play, it certainly isn't worth my money.
like which games are you referring to? IMO i can think of only one game that does not have a sub that is a worthy competitor and that is GW2.
other than that, you either have F2P restricted models that i hate, or less restricted sub models but in craptastic games.
it's cool if you don't like ESO and find it boring or whatever but i don't think the sub model is an issue and it should not be free.
B2P maybe but i would rather pay a sub if it is actually going to have significant content updates and not just say they will.
...it is then perfectly okay that a consumer wants free products and thus that the consumer wants to play this game for free.
The battlecry of the Millennial.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Sub fees make no sense in the current mmorpg market. You can get a game just as good as this without one. Personally i uninstalled the game because even if they have another beta I don't think the game is worth my time to play, it certainly isn't worth my money.
Wow and Eve disagree. What game is "just as good...without one"?
The Final Fantasy games disagree too. Several games are still sub games with slightly lower sub fees, even the original Ultima Online (now celebrating 15 years) is still a sub game.
What isn't mentioned yet is that ESO is a beautiful IP. People know that restrictive business models not only kill a game, it kills a truly BELOVED IP. We WANT ESO to succeed, and fear it won't. I won't be buying, not just because the Imperial race and crafted armor only comes with the most expensive kit (as well as mount), but because they didn't put enough work into it. I prefer to play Nords anyway... I played the latest beta up to level 5, and 3 starter area quests were broken.
Bugs are with every MMO. I've played many of them, submit a report and move onto the next. Even one broken in starter area is forgivable, as every patch in any MMO adds as many new bugs as it fixes. It's a fact of MMO life. However, at this point, only 2 weeks from release, the bugs should be in end game, plus some little done wilderness quests. There should NOT still be multiple broken quests in the starter zones:P
Why are you trying to shove your game down our throats? People don't think it's fun enough for a sub people are tired of the industry coming out with this and us to pay for something like that.
I must of missed something here. NOBODY is forcing anything down your throat. It is a very simple issue. Either you LIKE the game and support Zenimax and buy it OR you don't. Anything else besides this particular point is just "fluff". As for ESO being Greedy.......... IT IS A BUSINESS TRYING TO MAKE MONEY. If you do NOT like their product you simply don't buy and support it. In the end....if enough people think it is a subpar product, the company goes out of business. It is really that simple.
-Rig
This isn't a world where capitalism is appreciated anymore. Every company should produce products exactly at breakeven cost unless they are just greedy bastages. If they are truly enlightened they will offer the product at a loss. Everything I want in life should be free and everyone who wants something from me in life should pay as much as humanly possible. That's how it's supposed to work now, right?
EvE isnt a sub game. Technically it is but I would say a vast majority of people who play it for extended periods are playing for free. By buying PLEX.
But either way those games are all over 10 years old. The only game made int he past 10 years with a sub (mandatory) is FFXIV, and that is a remake or a failed game and is getting subsidized (like WoW) is with vastly reduced sub rates from Asia. But I doubt they will hold the sub model at least in he west for much longer.
The problem isnt the model its the games. They have way too quick a burn out factor. It also has a lot to do with the players who want everything as fast as they can get it. So any effort is seen as a grind. Companies could minimize that somewhat but that costs money.
The 'perfect' game would have to have a mix of sandbox and themepark elements. An extremely immersive world that you lived in not just ran around in. A game with intricate systems ...crafting, reputation, exploration, deeds, housing, economy, rolepaying etc.
So a game should be looking to take elements of the best of some games....
Lotro--Music system, world 'livability', RP
SWG- crafting, housing
Rift- housing, co-op open world encounters
Eve- economy
Vanguard- open world, crafting elements
Fallen Earth- PvP aspects (no target lock)
Reputations and deeds systems would have to a mishmash of several games to get them 'right' as no game does these all that well right now. Rift is maybe the best at it, but still 'grindy' feeling. Similar to exploration but with huge maps and random areas to find/explore all they would need is to add these elements to a map.
Another thing a 'perfect' MMO should have (needs) is a completely random group of events. Or spawn points. TRULY 'dynamic' content. Beyond what GW2 does or tried to do. Akin to how Rift had it in the beginning but more random and less obvious. Stuff that people cant time down or start to see continually repetitive encounters. Basically any map should be able to spawn any and all mobs the game has to attack or congregate in any and all areas of the map. Need to kill a boss in a cave (well in ESO he might or might not spawn) but in a 'perfect' MMO he may or may not be there depending on if the cave has been over run by spiders or ants or zombies or whatever. So you first have to clear out that bunch of stuff (or help the mobs you have to kill to get to the boss if the place isnt over run yet depending on the timing) and then wait for the boss to spawn. So you have static quest or objective targets that can also be targets or allies of randomly spawning mobs.
I know that might be too hard core for most people but it might help train these new age instant gratification guys back into a truly MMORPG mentality. This grab a quest run to a pin on the map kill something run back and collect a reward or get a new step is watered down garbage.
Yeah I know completely off topic. But not really because these guys COULD have made this game I described. They just didnt because it would cost too much. So in a round about way it sort of is on topic because ZoS obviously made the cheapest game they could and are trying to charge the most for it of any MMO ever developed.
Most people just expect to get what they pay for. Especially when paying premium price within the industry.
If you are going to charge $60 up front plus $15 a month plus whatever may or may not require purchase via their cash shop in future, you had better make sure your product/service is up to scratch.
The overwhelming feedback from this beta is that the product does not justify the cost.
I fail to see how that equates to wanting anything for free.
It's you who doesn't understand the basics, or mixing it up at best.
If you pre-order you are not entitled to ANYTHING (unless specifically offered prior) untill the game is out.
I'm afraid people will have to either stop pre-ordering (and playing beta) games or learn to suck it up. In fact you will more often than not get a better gaming experience in games that are out for a few months already, if not years.
Oh and there is no cash shop. You're just making things up.
Comments
Nobody owes us a damn thing in the business world, and we don't owe anything to the business world either. So our money is definitely not a given to them, as you pointed out earlier.
Now, there is also this thing called "competition", where if someone else offers an equivalent product at a cheaper price, then mechanically people will minimize their expenses and go for the cheaper product. And there are loads of quality games for free these days, or even for a simple box price.
Frankly, if they can sustain their chosen model in the current MMO market (which would absolutely validate it as a viable model), then I would say good for them because they would make a ton of money then.
What seems to be the case instead is that a significant portion of the player base is "uncomfortable" with the price + sub (the proof: ESO felt the need to justify their sub price in a press release).
Moreover, judging by recent MMO releases, the box + sub model hasn't been a success.
Walmart would sell you a tomato for $50 if they could, and if you had no choice but to buy it from them. If other shops were starting to give away tomatoes for free, yes Walmart would probably start to give away tomatoes for free. It's not love, just business. Now, fortunately for you, you have the choice of supermarket, and fortunately for Walmart, nobody is giving away free tomatoes.
Fortunately for MMO players, they have a choice too. Unfortunately for ESO, some competitors are giving away free tomatoes.
Sense of entitlement =/= personal desire to spend (or not) money on the game. Will ESO be the best choice? It certainly is for some players.
Will these players be enough to sustain the game? The so called experts on this forum don't think it will be the case. Time will tell of course.
great post.
And yet they can afford the latest PC to run TESO in all its glory..damn these jobless people!!!
Pretty much this.
People act as if they don't work and don't work for companies (some might be self employed but I imagine they charge a "competitive" fee for their product.)
How many of us have negotiated higher salaries? Were we being greedy or did we believe we were worth those salaries?
If we could charge a million per year and get away with it why wouldn't we?
If a company can get what they want for their product then they stay successful, employ people, make new products. If they charge too much then no one buys their products and they need to adjust accordingly.
Unless an organization is non-profit then they exist to make money. And if they are part of a publicly traded company then they "have to" make money and have to take advantage of whatever it takes to make money. Heck, stock holders can hold the company accountable if they aren't making money.
Whether or not ESO can give players a decent product and one that deserves their fee, time will tell.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It is so quaint to accuse anyone of being "greedy" in this day and age.
Getting as much as you can while you can is de rigueur, especially in for profit enterprises traded publicly. The only relevant question is how unobtrusively one can get money from customers before said customers feel offended. The market itself is devoid of morality. It is cold and rational.
The word greed implies sinful, unethical, or immoral behavior. If you wish to pursue this line of thought and argument, then you would be best served by reading What Money Can't Buy: The Moral Limits of Markets, by Michael Sandel. I think then that the discussion would be more interesting and well reasoned, and possibly productive.
Everyone has their opinion. Mine is that they haven't stuck to their word very well and seem to be doing all they can to get some extra bucks. Some people don't care that they haven't shown a lot of integrity - I do. I won't boycott the game because of it, I find it very fun, but I can say their decisions with the cash shop, Imperials, explorer's pack etc have left a bad taste in my mouth since they directly said they wouldn't do things like that.
Also, I feel 100% confident that cash shop will continue to expand with more and more things. That slow boil of the frog and all that. And I feel strongly they already have F2P designed for this game and are only launching with a sub model for the box sale boom at the beginning.
But again, it's a business and they of course are designed to make money. I don't fault them for that. For me really it's the deception, dishonesty, and way they are going about getting the money, which I see as somewhat questionable and shady.
I really hope you either teach or at least have children.
Last time I checked there was no cash shop in TESO? I'm guessing you're mixing preorder bonus with a cash shop?
I just feel Zenimax want to cash in fast and hard before the ship sinks like all Sub mmo's do within 4 to 8 months.
make no mistake ALL sub mmo go free to play or buy to play realy fast in this age and day.
Way to many choice and Zenimax just digged their own grave with losing many many potantial players by showing how greedy they are.
Nothing wrong with making money, but the way you need to earn it does.
Doing a whole race behind a collecters edition is the biggest mistake you can do, maybe they can pull it off ? i think they will not.
Good thing i can vote with my wallet and i have done just that.
I would have bought it otherwise tough but 80 euro + Sub + chashop ? Red Alrt incomming.
I wait a few months or a year and buy it like i did Mist of Pandaria in a garbage can for 10 euro.
Better spend my coins on something more off value untill its the right price to buy.
MMO's are like buying stocks, you wait and wait and then cash in.
You do not buy High when you knowt the price will drop.
ESO price will drop and it will drop fast.
Specialy with all that bad news thats hanging around it.
Last time I checked there was no cash shop in TESO? I'm guessing you're mixing preorder bonus with a cash shop?
ESO (or rather Matt Firor) explained in a recent interview that the game would launch with a cash shop:
http://www.buffed.de/TESO-The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-PC-239823/News/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Abomodell-und-Itemshops-1084773/
Because they didn't check their facts from reliable sources
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/405873/NO-ingame-cashshop.html
I don't like a company charging a subscription and having a cash shop.I don't like it.Special race only in the collectors edition.I don't like it.
Unlike some government programs...I'm not compelled to buy it.
No need to complain over what a company charges for its product. Just don't buy it if you don't want to.
Sub fees make no sense in the current mmorpg market. You can get a game just as good as this without one. Personally i uninstalled the game because even if they have another beta I don't think the game is worth my time to play, it certainly isn't worth my money.
If you buy the imperial edition you do not have anything to buy in the "cash shop", if you buy the standard the box price is not high in comparison to other similar games, and what is "full price monthly sub"?
Wow and Eve disagree. What game is "just as good...without one"?
exactly and i think that is the problem right there. instead of just realizing it's not for them and moving on, they feel anger and even betrayal by these companies because they are not making the game just for them or giving it to them totally free.
it's a real problem for this genre and i don't think there is anything any developer can do about it, the problem is the consumers themselves.
I dont think anyone can really say its the worst game ever.
But it IS very, very mediocre in my view and already has the hallmarks of a Freemium cash grab.
The game in it's current state is DEFINITELY not worth getting triple dipped over by high box price, full price monthly sub AND additional cash shop purchases of content that should be included in the sub to begin with.
So yes, I think ZOS are being far too greedy and it will come back to haunt them.
if you buy the IE you don't need to buy anything else on their website, you are not being triple dipped, that is your paranoia talking lol
like which games are you referring to? IMO i can think of only one game that does not have a sub that is a worthy competitor and that is GW2.
other than that, you either have F2P restricted models that i hate, or less restricted sub models but in craptastic games.
it's cool if you don't like ESO and find it boring or whatever but i don't think the sub model is an issue and it should not be free.
B2P maybe but i would rather pay a sub if it is actually going to have significant content updates and not just say they will.
The battlecry of the Millennial.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The Final Fantasy games disagree too. Several games are still sub games with slightly lower sub fees, even the original Ultima Online (now celebrating 15 years) is still a sub game.
What isn't mentioned yet is that ESO is a beautiful IP. People know that restrictive business models not only kill a game, it kills a truly BELOVED IP. We WANT ESO to succeed, and fear it won't. I won't be buying, not just because the Imperial race and crafted armor only comes with the most expensive kit (as well as mount), but because they didn't put enough work into it. I prefer to play Nords anyway... I played the latest beta up to level 5, and 3 starter area quests were broken.
Bugs are with every MMO. I've played many of them, submit a report and move onto the next. Even one broken in starter area is forgivable, as every patch in any MMO adds as many new bugs as it fixes. It's a fact of MMO life. However, at this point, only 2 weeks from release, the bugs should be in end game, plus some little done wilderness quests. There should NOT still be multiple broken quests in the starter zones:P
This isn't a world where capitalism is appreciated anymore. Every company should produce products exactly at breakeven cost unless they are just greedy bastages. If they are truly enlightened they will offer the product at a loss. Everything I want in life should be free and everyone who wants something from me in life should pay as much as humanly possible. That's how it's supposed to work now, right?
EvE isnt a sub game. Technically it is but I would say a vast majority of people who play it for extended periods are playing for free. By buying PLEX.
But either way those games are all over 10 years old. The only game made int he past 10 years with a sub (mandatory) is FFXIV, and that is a remake or a failed game and is getting subsidized (like WoW) is with vastly reduced sub rates from Asia. But I doubt they will hold the sub model at least in he west for much longer.
The problem isnt the model its the games. They have way too quick a burn out factor. It also has a lot to do with the players who want everything as fast as they can get it. So any effort is seen as a grind. Companies could minimize that somewhat but that costs money.
The 'perfect' game would have to have a mix of sandbox and themepark elements. An extremely immersive world that you lived in not just ran around in. A game with intricate systems ...crafting, reputation, exploration, deeds, housing, economy, rolepaying etc.
So a game should be looking to take elements of the best of some games....
Lotro--Music system, world 'livability', RP
SWG- crafting, housing
Rift- housing, co-op open world encounters
Eve- economy
Vanguard- open world, crafting elements
Fallen Earth- PvP aspects (no target lock)
Reputations and deeds systems would have to a mishmash of several games to get them 'right' as no game does these all that well right now. Rift is maybe the best at it, but still 'grindy' feeling. Similar to exploration but with huge maps and random areas to find/explore all they would need is to add these elements to a map.
Another thing a 'perfect' MMO should have (needs) is a completely random group of events. Or spawn points. TRULY 'dynamic' content. Beyond what GW2 does or tried to do. Akin to how Rift had it in the beginning but more random and less obvious. Stuff that people cant time down or start to see continually repetitive encounters. Basically any map should be able to spawn any and all mobs the game has to attack or congregate in any and all areas of the map. Need to kill a boss in a cave (well in ESO he might or might not spawn) but in a 'perfect' MMO he may or may not be there depending on if the cave has been over run by spiders or ants or zombies or whatever. So you first have to clear out that bunch of stuff (or help the mobs you have to kill to get to the boss if the place isnt over run yet depending on the timing) and then wait for the boss to spawn. So you have static quest or objective targets that can also be targets or allies of randomly spawning mobs.
I know that might be too hard core for most people but it might help train these new age instant gratification guys back into a truly MMORPG mentality. This grab a quest run to a pin on the map kill something run back and collect a reward or get a new step is watered down garbage.
Yeah I know completely off topic. But not really because these guys COULD have made this game I described. They just didnt because it would cost too much. So in a round about way it sort of is on topic because ZoS obviously made the cheapest game they could and are trying to charge the most for it of any MMO ever developed.
It's you who doesn't understand the basics, or mixing it up at best.
If you pre-order you are not entitled to ANYTHING (unless specifically offered prior) untill the game is out.
I'm afraid people will have to either stop pre-ordering (and playing beta) games or learn to suck it up. In fact you will more often than not get a better gaming experience in games that are out for a few months already, if not years.
Oh and there is no cash shop. You're just making things up.