Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Colt47 Originally posted by Distopia
You keep talking about these games not having stories and they shouldn't, why then did Raph Koster feel that was one of SWG's biggest problems? He said it right here on MMORPG.com.
Anyway, there's no right or wrong way to add story to an MMO, thinking there is is attempting to shoehorn this entire genre into your own little box of preferences, I don't want my games in your personal box.
I think the previous poster is complaining about the chosen hero syndrome that plagues a lot of Themepark MMOs these days. FFXIV ARR has that issue itself even though it tries to hide it as best it can behind the whole "warrior(s) of the crystal". Not like the story cutscenes acknowledge anyone else in the world besides the players character, unless it's a cutscene with everyone walking into a dungeon looking all shiny and heroic like.
You obviously haven't read his posts then, he's complaining about story being a major focus of game-play and not just something there to play if you chose to (an after thought in the design). He considers a questing focus is "shoving story down his throat". Which is all fine and good as a preference, but he's trying to force that preference down everyone's throat.
Ah, well that is definitely a different outlook. That sounds like he is looking for something more closely resembling a MOBA or other genre that focuses more on the actual gameplay. MMORPGs by their very nature tend to have a focus on telling some kind of tale within the gameplay. Often, those stories may not even have anything to do with the actions the player has taken or will take later on.
Quite the opposite. I think the focus should be on social interaction and the story that already exists in a world where we are just a part of. It's hard to explain I realize because people who.started with mmorpgs after WoW have no frame of reference. They've always just been playing single player games with a sub and calling them mmorpgs.
Story Story Story. I mean really Look at the ESO games most of the Single player quests are similar to MMOs quests. Kill, collect, talk, escort, discover etc...
To me when i think of an RPG or MMORPG, or an MOrpg etc... RPG stands for story ...Final Fantasy RPG, D&D (pencil and paper) RPG, to give a couple of examples. In D&D the GM was resposible for leading players on quests and making the story engaging and fun, while getting loot, leveling etc...same for Final Fantasy. I really dont get what people want with their mmos these days. As long as the mechanics are not terrible, has a good story, and i got some of my friends playing with me.. thats all i need to have fun
I don't think the questing itself is any better or worse than other MMOs. The big thing is how you engage and discover those quests feels better. I never feel like I'm in a hub, just exploring and finding people in need.
Can you give me an example of an intelligent quest from another MMORPG, if it is not ESO or TSW?
Just describe the quest and game. Just curious, especially since I find that TSW had some of the most interesting quests.
Any quest in Asheron's Call. Highly intelligent questing. Quest are based on achievement and not required for leveling. But, it was made in 99 and is one of the classics.
Originally posted by artemisentr4 I do, it is what has been missing in MMOs IMO.
Lol.
Which themepark MMO is missing brainless questing?
GW2 is themepark and offers quests with the best approach i have ever seen through dynamic events, they are the same boring repeatable quests but the way they pass in the game is the extremely live, i feel i play in a movie.
anyway i prefer to create my own quests and say: i want 200 skins from rats to craft a part for my uber leather glove ...
ESO has nice voice over and nice content its quests but they appear in the same boring way, they remind me the stupid videos in personal story of GW2 (i mention this to not call me fanboy)...
Originally posted by Celdryn I enjoyed it a good bit. Certainly better than killing 10 bears for their bear butts :-|
I would rather have a quest for 10 bears, and have the bears behave like bears; than have a quest to round up 6 guars. for those who skip reading the lore, the guar is a domesticated herd animal. Apparently they can be magically controlled via collars, except when they can't and they need to shocked, or hit with a stick, or... Really imaginative. Collect guars in different ways.
So please just stop defending their crappy, poor written, and repetitive quests. Armed with the rich backstory of Elder Scrolls, they failed to deliver.
I pre-ordered. Sustained by hope. My hope is that they deliver at higher levels. With quests that require groups.
Mannimarco I am coming for you, and I am going to bring friends. Mannimarco will not defeat me and my companions. Of course the quest to round up 10 guar to feed some soldiers so they can battle Mannimarco will crush my will to play.
Originally posted by JimmydeanThese quests are terrible. Story and Lore can exist in a fantasy world without being shoved down your throat every second you are playing. Single Player games? Sure, they exist because of this. In an MMORPG, there is no place.
Quests are how players interact with the world and get immersed in stories.. GW2 tried to do it a different way, with Coop quests (dynamic content) but in essince it was still quests, and even there people came to the conclusion that oldfashioned quests where still more immersive then Coop quests with some loose story components..Please explain how you could immerse people into story and lore withotu quests?In my opinion an MMO RPG is about playing a role in a world (hench RolePlaying Game) and Quests are still the only mechanic fot to do so...
In actual MMORPGs,
Stopped reading there, what does this even mean? Actual MMORPG's?
Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. Notice Massively and Multiplayer - Not Minuscule and not single player.
Massively refers to number of players playing the game Multiplayer refers to ability to play with others, it doesnt mean you MUST play with othersPlayers often confuse these terms to mean - The only way to play is with others, it doesnt
It's inferred that there should be a level of interaction otherwise there would not be a muliplayer component.
To me that means there is the option to multiplayer. If I choose to play a character on this game or Rift that does nothing that crafts among multiple people, I can do that. Or I could make a healer type toon that has no chance of soloing and has to group. IT's all about choice.
Without regressing into the same old argument, What is the difference if those characters were npc's?
Just because you can admire the architecture in multiplayer Battlefield 4 (and not participate) Doesn't mean that's what the game intended for you or necessarily good for the game as a whole.
A multiplayer game where characters don't interact is not serving its purpose and definition. Ultimately leading to a broken experience.
Yet strangely, Mmorpgs get a pass on this: Trying to shoehorn single player into a realm that is labeled multiplayer.
What? I'm not sure why you have placed such a rigid style to what you are playing. I gave examples of what you could do, not what you have to do. Some people like to get into a game with others, while some play alone and occasionally , trade, or chat. It's all so flexible and easy in any game.
It's more to real life this way. Why do you play computer games when you are surrounded by other people in your world? You could be out at the mall or at a sporting event. Sometimes you just want to do things alone.
So many reactions, but none that could answer the main question i asked..
Give me other means that allow players to interact with story and lore, that work just as well then Quests?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by Celdryn I enjoyed it a good bit. Certainly better than killing 10 bears for their bear butts :-|
I would rather have a quest for 10 bears, and have the bears behave like bears; than have a quest to round up 6 guars. for those who skip reading the lore, the guar is a domesticated herd animal. Apparently they can be magically controlled via collars, except when they can't and they need to shocked, or hit with a stick, or... Really imaginative. Collect guars in different ways.
So please just stop defending their crappy, poor written, and repetitive quests. Armed with the rich backstory of Elder Scrolls, they failed to deliver.
I pre-ordered. Sustained by hope. My hope is that they deliver at higher levels. With quests that require groups.
Mannimarco I am coming for you, and I am going to bring friends. Mannimarco will not defeat me and my companions. Of course the quest to round up 10 guar to feed some soldiers so they can battle Mannimarco will crush my will to play.
I can't say I've run into a quest that weak yet, either way, I share my opinion here any way I want. Regardless of how you feel about a game or it's delivery. Your opinion is not law, nor is mine or anyone else's. Maybe stop buying games based on hope, wait til you try it next time?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Can you give me an example of an intelligent quest from another MMORPG, if it is not ESO or TSW?
Just describe the quest and game. Just curious, especially since I find that TSW had some of the most interesting quests.
He is just mad because he wants to be hand held through everything and not read a thing.
What are you talking about? Those are two separate things. He doesn't want to read because he has no interest in the lore. And the game does plenty to hold your hand, you don't need to listen to any of the dialogue or read anything to complete these quests; just look at the quest tracker and points marked on the map and compass.
Story Story Story. I mean really Look at the ESO games most of the Single player quests are similar to MMOs quests. Kill, collect, talk, escort, discover etc...
To me when i think of an RPG or MMORPG, or an MOrpg etc... RPG stands for story ...Final Fantasy RPG, D&D (pencil and paper) RPG, to give a couple of examples. In D&D the GM was resposible for leading players on quests and making the story engaging and fun, while getting loot, leveling etc...same for Final Fantasy. I really dont get what people want with their mmos these days. As long as the mechanics are not terrible, has a good story, and i got some of my friends playing with me.. thats all i need to have fun
Story is important, yes, but in RPGs you have to figure it out by yourself. You get hints here and there, and put the pieces together. That's where quests fit in the picture; they give you some information of lore and the story without revealing too much. You, the player, have to discover the rest, and that's what makes these games truly amazing.
Scripted quests and cut-scenes look great but they take away the game factor; you could be watching a pixar movie instead of a video game. Usually there's very little a player can do between the scenes, and that makes it boring.
What i want from an RPG is seeing my character grow in power, influence and wealth, and see the content. When my character has reached the power cap and i've seen everything a game can offer, i lose my interest very quickly, but i can keep playing for years as long as my character improves constantly and there's some dungeons i haven't seen.
The kind of questing OP describes is ridiculous for not only an mmorpg but any game. I loved playing games like Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Fallout 1 and 2. I tried to play Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origin, but uninstalled them very soon. They are not even games, imo, but interactive movies. Do they have a good story? Sure, i've no doubt, but there's very little for a player to do other than watch cut-scenes.
As opposed to what type of questing? You listed the only MMO in existence that actually has really solid questing - The Secret World. I'm thinking you should put this topic in general discussion of MMO's and not single out Elder Scrolls with this. ESO actually has some of the best questing 2nd to The Secret World there is (for an mmo).
A good quest really has nothing to do with the quest mechanics themselves, sure they matter, some, but they don't make a a "good" quest. A good quest is mechanic vies often really simple, take LOTR. Go destroy the ring and save the world is a good example.
The thing that makes a quest awesome is the travel, and how it fits into the whole world and its impact should you fail or succeed on the world.
ESO quests only copies the simple part, but insanely little on the important part. There is a lot of fetch x thing, but the travel does not have a impact at all, there is no world-interaction with the quest. You do your shit and move on, and if you don't do it, no one cares except your xp bar.
Some have done the questing thing a little better than others, like SWTOR/ a few wow quests.
I just wait for the day that they stop making quest a part of the levelling experience. Make few single quests, that actually are so big, they you can create a narrative that actually has some quality to it and find another way to make the leveling happen.
Sadly this won't happen because the majority of MMO gamers are not into stuff like that. They are what i like to call, the Facebook-gamer. They like mindless stuff to do, and don't wanna waste time on why they are doing it. I blame it on lack of intelligence and their brains simply needs a lower amount of stimuli, and as a game-creator you wanna obtain optimal frustration in the players gaming experience, if not they will rage quit and call the game retarded(to much to handle for their brain). So the reason you hate ESO is due to it being to it being unable to create enough stimuli for your brain, so your brain gets bored/frustrated cause your to smart for this game, so you want more STIMULI, but sadly this game is made for the Facebook-gamer and the stimuli is meant for them not you. So hey be happy that your smart, be sad that there aint many MMO's for you anymore.
Creating your own narrative in a game is actually a really demanding task for your brain, like in school, when students gets frustrated if the teacher doesn't tell them exactly what paper they should do. The majority of the people wants to be told what to do and think, cause thats what their brain can handle. The good news is, that you can always train your brain to be better at thinking for itself, but sadly most people are not willing to unless they get "forced", and well, ESO wants to sell, and well, its hard to force someone to buy your product, so they just leave out the force part and just makes what makes their brain happy, which is a game that doesn't make their brain better.
Sadly this won't happen because the majority of MMO gamers are not into stuff like that. They are what i like to call, the Facebook-gamer. They like mindless stuff to do, and don't wanna waste time on why they are doing it. I blame it on lack of intelligence and their brains simply needs a lower amount of stimuli, and as a game-creator you wanna obtain optimal frustration in the players gaming experience, if not they will rage quit and call the game retarded(to much to handle for their brain). So the reason you hate ESO is due to it being to it being unable to create enough stimuli for your brain, so your brain gets bored/frustrated cause your to smart for this game, so you want more STIMULI, but sadly this game is made for the Facebook-gamer and the stimuli is meant for them not you. So hey be happy that your smart, be sad that there aint many MMO's for you anymore.
Creating your own narrative in a game is actually a really demanding task for your brain, like in school, when students gets frustrated if the teacher doesn't tell them exactly what paper they should do. The majority of the people wants to be told what to do and think, cause thats what their brain can handle. The good news is, that you can always train your brain to be better at thinking for itself, but sadly most people are not willing to unless they get "forced", and well, ESO wants to sell, and well, its hard to force someone to buy your product, so they just leave out the force part and just makes what makes their brain happy, which is a game that doesn't make their brain better.
That's why they're games. I fry my brain enough at work everyday. It doesn't mean I'm stupid for wanting games that are not too taxing on the brain.
This post is a great barometer of a trend in MMOs general population. It's all about the destination, end game gear/raids, rather than the journey. It's a sad state of affairs when immersion, and story telling are considered boring.
Sadly this won't happen because the majority of MMO gamers are not into stuff like that. They are what i like to call, the Facebook-gamer. They like mindless stuff to do, and don't wanna waste time on why they are doing it. I blame it on lack of intelligence and their brains simply needs a lower amount of stimuli, and as a game-creator you wanna obtain optimal frustration in the players gaming experience, if not they will rage quit and call the game retarded(to much to handle for their brain). So the reason you hate ESO is due to it being to it being unable to create enough stimuli for your brain, so your brain gets bored/frustrated cause your to smart for this game, so you want more STIMULI, but sadly this game is made for the Facebook-gamer and the stimuli is meant for them not you. So hey be happy that your smart, be sad that there aint many MMO's for you anymore.
Creating your own narrative in a game is actually a really demanding task for your brain, like in school, when students gets frustrated if the teacher doesn't tell them exactly what paper they should do. The majority of the people wants to be told what to do and think, cause thats what their brain can handle. The good news is, that you can always train your brain to be better at thinking for itself, but sadly most people are not willing to unless they get "forced", and well, ESO wants to sell, and well, its hard to force someone to buy your product, so they just leave out the force part and just makes what makes their brain happy, which is a game that doesn't make their brain better.
That's why they're games. I fry my brain enough at work everyday. It doesn't mean I'm stupid for wanting games that are not too taxing on the brain.
This is funny this is almost the same thing my grandparents said 20 years ago about video games being for people too stupid to be able to enjoy and read books. How the bar moves on what takes "brains".
I blame it on lack of intelligence and their brains simply needs a lower amount of stimuli, and as a game-creator you wanna obtain optimal frustration in the players gaming experience, if not they will rage quit and call the game retarded(to much to handle for their brain). So the reason you hate ESO is due to it being to it being unable to create enough stimuli for your brain, so your brain gets bored/frustrated cause your to smart for this game, so you want more STIMULI, but sadly this game is made for the Facebook-gamer and the stimuli is meant for them not you. So hey be happy that your smart, be sad that there aint many MMO's for you anymore.
This has to be one of the dumbest posts on this section ever. Jesus.. basically you're saying all future ESO players are imbeciles because their brain is stupid enough to create the required amount of stimuli while more intelligent people can't. Well.. I guess I've won my judicial state examination in the local lottery.. can't find another explanation for enjoying ESO that much I pre-ordered yesterday.
A good quest really has nothing to do with the quest mechanics themselves, sure they matter, some, but they don't make a a "good" quest. A good quest is mechanic vies often really simple, take LOTR. Go destroy the ring and save the world is a good example.
The thing that makes a quest awesome is the travel, and how it fits into the whole world and its impact should you fail or succeed on the world.
ESO quests only copies the simple part, but insanely little on the important part. There is a lot of fetch x thing, but the travel does not have a impact at all, there is no world-interaction with the quest. You do your shit and move on, and if you don't do it, no one cares except your xp bar.
Some have done the questing thing a little better than others, like SWTOR/ a few wow quests.
I just wait for the day that they stop making quest a part of the levelling experience. Make few single quests, that actually are so big, they you can create a narrative that actually has some quality to it and find another way to make the leveling happen.
Sadly this won't happen because the majority of MMO gamers are not into stuff like that. They are what i like to call, the Facebook-gamer. They like mindless stuff to do, and don't wanna waste time on why they are doing it. I blame it on lack of intelligence and their brains simply needs a lower amount of stimuli, and as a game-creator you wanna obtain optimal frustration in the players gaming experience, if not they will rage quit and call the game retarded(to much to handle for their brain). So the reason you hate ESO is due to it being to it being unable to create enough stimuli for your brain, so your brain gets bored/frustrated cause your to smart for this game, so you want more STIMULI, but sadly this game is made for the Facebook-gamer and the stimuli is meant for them not you. So hey be happy that your smart, be sad that there aint many MMO's for you anymore.
Creating your own narrative in a game is actually a really demanding task for your brain, like in school, when students gets frustrated if the teacher doesn't tell them exactly what paper they should do. The majority of the people wants to be told what to do and think, cause thats what their brain can handle. The good news is, that you can always train your brain to be better at thinking for itself, but sadly most people are not willing to unless they get "forced", and well, ESO wants to sell, and well, its hard to force someone to buy your product, so they just leave out the force part and just makes what makes their brain happy, which is a game that doesn't make their brain better.
Creating your own story isn't any different than suspending your disbelief and imagining yourself in the world in a themepark as the character you're portraying, it's the same exact thing. The only thing different are the tools at your disposal and the direction of the gameplay.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by jazznblues210270 This post is a great barometer of a trend in MMOs general population. It's all about the destination, end game gear/raids, rather than the journey. It's a sad state of affairs when immersion, and story telling are considered boring.
In an mmorpg with questing actually the journey is for me important with good content, otherwise you could just join any instant pvp game.
If you just rush in such games you are burned out quickly and ESO is for sure not a game for powergamers who just want to rush. Such players will be disappointed with ESO and wont like the questing.
Originally posted by Distopia I do... I can't say it feels different than any basic quests I've done in any single player RPG, especially SKyrim and Oblivion. TSW was trying to offer something along the lines of an adventure game with those types of quests (as that was Ragnar's background) more so than an RPG.
My sentiments exactly. My only issue is I wish they had more mobs along the ways so we could be fighting more if we so choose.
A good quest really has nothing to do with the quest mechanics themselves, sure they matter, some, but they don't make a a "good" quest. A good quest is mechanic vies often really simple, take LOTR. Go destroy the ring and save the world is a good example.
The thing that makes a quest awesome is the travel, and how it fits into the whole world and its impact should you fail or succeed on the world.
ESO quests only copies the simple part, but insanely little on the important part. There is a lot of fetch x thing, but the travel does not have a impact at all, there is no world-interaction with the quest. You do your shit and move on, and if you don't do it, no one cares except your xp bar.
Some have done the questing thing a little better than others, like SWTOR/ a few wow quests.
I just wait for the day that they stop making quest a part of the levelling experience. Make few single quests, that actually are so big, they you can create a narrative that actually has some quality to it and find another way to make the leveling happen.
Sadly this won't happen because the majority of MMO gamers are not into stuff like that. They are what i like to call, the Facebook-gamer. They like mindless stuff to do, and don't wanna waste time on why they are doing it. I blame it on lack of intelligence and their brains simply needs a lower amount of stimuli, and as a game-creator you wanna obtain optimal frustration in the players gaming experience, if not they will rage quit and call the game retarded(to much to handle for their brain). So the reason you hate ESO is due to it being to it being unable to create enough stimuli for your brain, so your brain gets bored/frustrated cause your to smart for this game, so you want more STIMULI, but sadly this game is made for the Facebook-gamer and the stimuli is meant for them not you. So hey be happy that your smart, be sad that there aint many MMO's for you anymore.
Creating your own narrative in a game is actually a really demanding task for your brain, like in school, when students gets frustrated if the teacher doesn't tell them exactly what paper they should do. The majority of the people wants to be told what to do and think, cause thats what their brain can handle. The good news is, that you can always train your brain to be better at thinking for itself, but sadly most people are not willing to unless they get "forced", and well, ESO wants to sell, and well, its hard to force someone to buy your product, so they just leave out the force part and just makes what makes their brain happy, which is a game that doesn't make their brain better.
Creating your own story isn't any different than suspending your disbelief and imagining yourself in the world in a themepark as the character you're portraying, it's the same exact thing. The only thing different are the tools at your disposal and the direction of the gameplay.
Exactly right. Imagination is needed in most forms of entertainment. Brain power is not a very smart argument. I guess you can do an experiment. You could test the different areas of the brain to see what parts light up for those who can use their imagination while questing through given stories vs those who create their own content in a sandbox. Could answer the question of why some like sandbox and others like theme parks.
When I want to relax and play a game, I prefer the questing as in ESO. I get a chance to both explore and discover what has been created by the devs and run through the story quests. It is something I enjoy as a means of entertainment. I also enjoy reading and watching movies for different ways to get entertainment. I don't enjoy having to come up with my own entertainment in a game. Has nothing to do with brain power. Has to do with why I play games or do anything for entertainment really.
I am looking for fun. And that is something that is a personal thing for all of us. Each of us find different things fun. Doesn't make any form a right way or wrong way. Doesn't make one way a smart way and the other a dumb way. Just different based on an individual.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
OP you could move your discussion to any forum on this site! It would fit in the WoW, Rift, TSW, and so on.
To me all rpgs are taken from pen & paper games. Without quests you wouldn't have the progressive story needed to drive your character.
Good answer bud, nicely put.
OP the world has Lore and an ongoing story which you are dropped into having escaped Coldharbour. You have to get involved in the world and it's plots and schemes, and like the proper hero go and help some poor folk along the way.
Far prefer the above than being dropped into a world with nothing but a world. I mean where's the story and heroic deeds?
Oh and for some other people in this thread - I have yet to come across a single "kill 10 rats" type quest in this game so S**U please and stop talking cods-whallop !!!
There were quite a few quests like that were just do 10 of X. Go to the shore, click on the five lost sailors. Go to the warehouse, click on the five barrels/crates until you click on the one with the poisoned meat. There were many like this. Same difference in my opinion. And we can have opinions (a general purpose of forums)....And we shouldn't be told to shut-up and called names because we have them.
Comments
You keep talking about these games not having stories and they shouldn't, why then did Raph Koster feel that was one of SWG's biggest problems? He said it right here on MMORPG.com.
Anyway, there's no right or wrong way to add story to an MMO, thinking there is is attempting to shoehorn this entire genre into your own little box of preferences, I don't want my games in your personal box.
I think the previous poster is complaining about the chosen hero syndrome that plagues a lot of Themepark MMOs these days. FFXIV ARR has that issue itself even though it tries to hide it as best it can behind the whole "warrior(s) of the crystal". Not like the story cutscenes acknowledge anyone else in the world besides the players character, unless it's a cutscene with everyone walking into a dungeon looking all shiny and heroic like.
You obviously haven't read his posts then, he's complaining about story being a major focus of game-play and not just something there to play if you chose to (an after thought in the design). He considers a questing focus is "shoving story down his throat". Which is all fine and good as a preference, but he's trying to force that preference down everyone's throat.
Ah, well that is definitely a different outlook. That sounds like he is looking for something more closely resembling a MOBA or other genre that focuses more on the actual gameplay. MMORPGs by their very nature tend to have a focus on telling some kind of tale within the gameplay. Often, those stories may not even have anything to do with the actions the player has taken or will take later on.
Quite the opposite. I think the focus should be on social interaction and the story that already exists in a world where we are just a part of. It's hard to explain I realize because people who.started with mmorpgs after WoW have no frame of reference. They've always just been playing single player games with a sub and calling them mmorpgs.
Er..
You just described every RPG out there albeit to a very crude level.
Maybe this genre isn't for you bud.
Story Story Story. I mean really Look at the ESO games most of the Single player quests are similar to MMOs quests. Kill, collect, talk, escort, discover etc...
To me when i think of an RPG or MMORPG, or an MOrpg etc... RPG stands for story ...Final Fantasy RPG, D&D (pencil and paper) RPG, to give a couple of examples. In D&D the GM was resposible for leading players on quests and making the story engaging and fun, while getting loot, leveling etc...same for Final Fantasy. I really dont get what people want with their mmos these days. As long as the mechanics are not terrible, has a good story, and i got some of my friends playing with me.. thats all i need to have fun
Any quest in Asheron's Call. Highly intelligent questing. Quest are based on achievement and not required for leveling. But, it was made in 99 and is one of the classics.
-Mongoose
GW2 is themepark and offers quests with the best approach i have ever seen through dynamic events, they are the same boring repeatable quests but the way they pass in the game is the extremely live, i feel i play in a movie.
anyway i prefer to create my own quests and say: i want 200 skins from rats to craft a part for my uber leather glove ...
ESO has nice voice over and nice content its quests but they appear in the same boring way, they remind me the stupid videos in personal story of GW2 (i mention this to not call me fanboy)...
Really funny, you should go at Saturday night live. You'll make a nice duet with Jessica Simpson.
I would rather have a quest for 10 bears, and have the bears behave like bears; than have a quest to round up 6 guars. for those who skip reading the lore, the guar is a domesticated herd animal. Apparently they can be magically controlled via collars, except when they can't and they need to shocked, or hit with a stick, or... Really imaginative. Collect guars in different ways.
So please just stop defending their crappy, poor written, and repetitive quests. Armed with the rich backstory of Elder Scrolls, they failed to deliver.
I pre-ordered. Sustained by hope. My hope is that they deliver at higher levels. With quests that require groups.
Mannimarco I am coming for you, and I am going to bring friends. Mannimarco will not defeat me and my companions. Of course the quest to round up 10 guar to feed some soldiers so they can battle Mannimarco will crush my will to play.
So many reactions, but none that could answer the main question i asked..
Give me other means that allow players to interact with story and lore, that work just as well then Quests?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I can't say I've run into a quest that weak yet, either way, I share my opinion here any way I want. Regardless of how you feel about a game or it's delivery. Your opinion is not law, nor is mine or anyone else's. Maybe stop buying games based on hope, wait til you try it next time?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What are you talking about? Those are two separate things. He doesn't want to read because he has no interest in the lore. And the game does plenty to hold your hand, you don't need to listen to any of the dialogue or read anything to complete these quests; just look at the quest tracker and points marked on the map and compass.
MMOs Played: FFXI,Age of Conan, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, GW2
Playing:None
Waiting For: Wildstar, The Repopulation, Archeage, TESO, Warhammer 40K:EC, EQN
Story is important, yes, but in RPGs you have to figure it out by yourself. You get hints here and there, and put the pieces together. That's where quests fit in the picture; they give you some information of lore and the story without revealing too much. You, the player, have to discover the rest, and that's what makes these games truly amazing.
Scripted quests and cut-scenes look great but they take away the game factor; you could be watching a pixar movie instead of a video game. Usually there's very little a player can do between the scenes, and that makes it boring.
What i want from an RPG is seeing my character grow in power, influence and wealth, and see the content. When my character has reached the power cap and i've seen everything a game can offer, i lose my interest very quickly, but i can keep playing for years as long as my character improves constantly and there's some dungeons i haven't seen.
The kind of questing OP describes is ridiculous for not only an mmorpg but any game. I loved playing games like Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Fallout 1 and 2. I tried to play Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origin, but uninstalled them very soon. They are not even games, imo, but interactive movies. Do they have a good story? Sure, i've no doubt, but there's very little for a player to do other than watch cut-scenes.
Who actually _enjoys_ this kind of questing?
As opposed to what type of questing? You listed the only MMO in existence that actually has really solid questing - The Secret World. I'm thinking you should put this topic in general discussion of MMO's and not single out Elder Scrolls with this. ESO actually has some of the best questing 2nd to The Secret World there is (for an mmo).
A good quest really has nothing to do with the quest mechanics themselves, sure they matter, some, but they don't make a a "good" quest. A good quest is mechanic vies often really simple, take LOTR. Go destroy the ring and save the world is a good example.
The thing that makes a quest awesome is the travel, and how it fits into the whole world and its impact should you fail or succeed on the world.
ESO quests only copies the simple part, but insanely little on the important part. There is a lot of fetch x thing, but the travel does not have a impact at all, there is no world-interaction with the quest. You do your shit and move on, and if you don't do it, no one cares except your xp bar.
Some have done the questing thing a little better than others, like SWTOR/ a few wow quests.
I just wait for the day that they stop making quest a part of the levelling experience. Make few single quests, that actually are so big, they you can create a narrative that actually has some quality to it and find another way to make the leveling happen.
Sadly this won't happen because the majority of MMO gamers are not into stuff like that. They are what i like to call, the Facebook-gamer. They like mindless stuff to do, and don't wanna waste time on why they are doing it. I blame it on lack of intelligence and their brains simply needs a lower amount of stimuli, and as a game-creator you wanna obtain optimal frustration in the players gaming experience, if not they will rage quit and call the game retarded(to much to handle for their brain). So the reason you hate ESO is due to it being to it being unable to create enough stimuli for your brain, so your brain gets bored/frustrated cause your to smart for this game, so you want more STIMULI, but sadly this game is made for the Facebook-gamer and the stimuli is meant for them not you. So hey be happy that your smart, be sad that there aint many MMO's for you anymore.
Creating your own narrative in a game is actually a really demanding task for your brain, like in school, when students gets frustrated if the teacher doesn't tell them exactly what paper they should do. The majority of the people wants to be told what to do and think, cause thats what their brain can handle. The good news is, that you can always train your brain to be better at thinking for itself, but sadly most people are not willing to unless they get "forced", and well, ESO wants to sell, and well, its hard to force someone to buy your product, so they just leave out the force part and just makes what makes their brain happy, which is a game that doesn't make their brain better.
That's why they're games. I fry my brain enough at work everyday. It doesn't mean I'm stupid for wanting games that are not too taxing on the brain.
This is funny this is almost the same thing my grandparents said 20 years ago about video games being for people too stupid to be able to enjoy and read books. How the bar moves on what takes "brains".
This has to be one of the dumbest posts on this section ever. Jesus.. basically you're saying all future ESO players are imbeciles because their brain is stupid enough to create the required amount of stimuli while more intelligent people can't. Well.. I guess I've won my judicial state examination in the local lottery.. can't find another explanation for enjoying ESO that much I pre-ordered yesterday.
Elite: Dangerous - Space Exploration & Trading.
Creating your own story isn't any different than suspending your disbelief and imagining yourself in the world in a themepark as the character you're portraying, it's the same exact thing. The only thing different are the tools at your disposal and the direction of the gameplay.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In an mmorpg with questing actually the journey is for me important with good content, otherwise you could just join any instant pvp game.
If you just rush in such games you are burned out quickly and ESO is for sure not a game for powergamers who just want to rush. Such players will be disappointed with ESO and wont like the questing.
My sentiments exactly. My only issue is I wish they had more mobs along the ways so we could be fighting more if we so choose.
You are 100% right, its brainless questing
Exactly right. Imagination is needed in most forms of entertainment. Brain power is not a very smart argument. I guess you can do an experiment. You could test the different areas of the brain to see what parts light up for those who can use their imagination while questing through given stories vs those who create their own content in a sandbox. Could answer the question of why some like sandbox and others like theme parks.
When I want to relax and play a game, I prefer the questing as in ESO. I get a chance to both explore and discover what has been created by the devs and run through the story quests. It is something I enjoy as a means of entertainment. I also enjoy reading and watching movies for different ways to get entertainment. I don't enjoy having to come up with my own entertainment in a game. Has nothing to do with brain power. Has to do with why I play games or do anything for entertainment really.
I am looking for fun. And that is something that is a personal thing for all of us. Each of us find different things fun. Doesn't make any form a right way or wrong way. Doesn't make one way a smart way and the other a dumb way. Just different based on an individual.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Good answer bud, nicely put.
OP the world has Lore and an ongoing story which you are dropped into having escaped Coldharbour. You have to get involved in the world and it's plots and schemes, and like the proper hero go and help some poor folk along the way.
Far prefer the above than being dropped into a world with nothing but a world. I mean where's the story and heroic deeds?
Oh and for some other people in this thread - I have yet to come across a single "kill 10 rats" type quest in this game so S**U please and stop talking cods-whallop !!!
Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8POVoJ8fdOseuJ4U1ZX-oA