I don't get why people make posts like this. I mean seriously, what do you care, personally, about how the game does? Does it affect your life, gaming or entertainment generally if it's a huge smash, or a giant flop?
Fine, if YOU want it to end up B2P or F2P so YOU don't have to pay a sub then just say that. We get it, you don't like paying subs. Some people have no issue with it however - see FF XIV which is happily taking monthly cash from players and giving them enjoyment in return.
It sure makes no difference to me that FF XIV is a sub game that's doing pretty well, in fact I'm happy it's doing well. Because I like MMOs, I believe in the genre and want to see it have a long future with games getting progressively better and more dynamic. This needs games to be successful, even if it's games that you personally don't like, or don't want to pay for.
It effects them honestly because they want to play the game but don't want to pay.
That's why they make such a fuss. Then of course there's the other part of them that just want to see everything fail because they are just that bitter in their own life.
Something tells me, ESO will stay P2P. As the devs have already said that they aren't making a game everyone will play like WoW. They're making the game they want to play. I want to play it as well, as long as it's P2P. I don't like the F2P entitled-babies. I definitely don't like a game that spends 99% of it's development on pink hair or bunny ears to get you to buy it.
Originally posted by Gravarg Something tells me, ESO will stay P2P. As the devs have already said that they aren't making a game everyone will play like WoW. They're making the game they want to play. I want to play it as well, as long as it's P2P. I don't like the F2P entitled-babies. I definitely don't like a game that spends 99% of it's development on pink hair or bunny ears to get you to buy it.
And what makes you 100% certain that ESO game shop won't have stuff like pink hair and bunny ears in future? we already know that in game shop exists.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Shamorau i love these discussions. personally i believe they want it to be f2p so they can play. either they are kids who are to young to work yet or tight arses not willing to pay for anything.
Maybe people like the game, but really can't justify a sub for a game this limited in quality.
Then I guess they didn't like it much at all.
If a $15 per month sub is holding you back from a game you like, the problem is not the game.
So you would pay 15€ /month for Starcraft II? Counter-Strike? ? Or even skyrim?
A game can be entertaining while still not worth a monthly fee.
Yes, I would have paid a sub for Skyrim if they constantly released updates and I could play coop. I put more time into Skyrim than a lot of the AAA mmos. SC2 and CS, you couldn't get me to pay 1.99 for the box. It goes to show that people will pay for what they like. Anyone that thinks 15 bucks a month is too much for ESO prolly doesn't have enough interest in the game to think it is worth that amount. Noones fault...just personal preference. Devs cannot cater to everyone. So much hate over such a petty thing. No amount of discussion will change that fact. If I liked a game enough, I would happily pay 80 bucks a month if it offered all the things that I like. I guess my enjoyment far outweighs the value of money.
So many jaded people in the world today...no one in particular. Shoe fits kind of statement.
Present: Current offerings are low quality or soloable
Past:AoC, DCUO, FFXI,FFXIV 1.0 and ARR,WoW,Fallen Earth, Tabula Rasa, TSW, SWTOR, Rift, Aion, WAR, Darkfall, STO, CoH/CoV, GW2, Diaspora, EQ2, DDO, and a bunch of forgettable ftp games
Originally posted by Gravarg Something tells me, ESO will stay P2P. As the devs have already said that they aren't making a game everyone will play like WoW. They're making the game they want to play. I want to play it as well, as long as it's P2P. I don't like the F2P entitled-babies. I definitely don't like a game that spends 99% of it's development on pink hair or bunny ears to get you to buy it.
I disagree.
Unless they are OK at seeing their monthly profits decrease every month as players naturally leave game over time.
Its a loosing battle - increasing number of players in a game post launch is one of the hardest things for any MMORPG to accomplish.
The only way to sustain profitablity is via a cash shop.
Originally posted by Gravarg Something tells me, ESO will stay P2P. As the devs have already said that they aren't making a game everyone will play like WoW. They're making the game they want to play. I want to play it as well, as long as it's P2P. I don't like the F2P entitled-babies. I definitely don't like a game that spends 99% of it's development on pink hair or bunny ears to get you to buy it.
I disagree.
Unless they are OK at seeing their monthly profits decrease every month as players naturally leave game over time.
Its a loosing battle - increasing number of players in a game post launch is one of the hardest things for any MMORPG to accomplish.
The only way to sustain profitablity is via a cash shop.
Decrease from what? Do you now their budget? Any MMO developer with any sense knows better than you or me what their target monthly profit is - and here's a clue: it isn't based on the numbers at launch - that's the gravy. It's based on the predicted retention rate that is a fraction of the day 1 rates.
Of course subs will decrease just like they do in all MMOs. Their monthly budget will take the reality of the MMO gaming public's subscription habits into consideration when setting their targets.
Games don't go F2P because their sub numbers drop. They do it when their average monthly numbers drop below their budgeted target and continue to drop. And that's a number only they know but it wouldn't surprise me if it's below 20% retention.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Maybe my time in this genre is up ... but I will never again play a game that has a hybrid model ... the only caveat to that is if a sub based game does have a cash shop they must have a way for the sub to get everything in it in game... this does not include someone else buying it from the cash shop and selling it in game.
I was on board with ESO until the cash shop announcement ... pre-order canceled. WildStar will get the same if they try to add anything beyond the game time...
Did your title say, "ESO with P2P will not long time live"?
LMAO you did mean, "ESO will not live long with P2P"?
I figured he was talking like yoda.
English isn't his native tongue and it's very easy to figure out what he meant. And for the record I agree with the OP 100%. Game will go F2P within a year, guaranteed.
Your extrapolating based on past launches and your personal value opinion of the game which I agree probably is the safe bet. Sooner or later however someone is going to do a new sub game right. I really don't know if it's going to be ESO or some future title as I think it's what a developer does after launch that determines the fate of the MMO more than what they do before but regardless there will be a title that proves people like you wrong at some point and it's going to turn the market upside down.
Originally posted by Shamorau i love these discussions. personally i believe they want it to be f2p so they can play. either they are kids who are to young to work yet or tight arses not willing to pay for anything.
Maybe people like the game, but really can't justify a sub for a game this limited in quality.
Then I guess they didn't like it much at all.
If a $15 per month sub is holding you back from a game you like, the problem is not the game.
So you would pay 15€ /month for Starcraft II? Counter-Strike? ? Or even skyrim?
A game can be entertaining while still not worth a monthly fee.
Umm... if I were ENJOYING any game, and there was continued development by the developers (and cost on their end) I'd be happy to pay. If I weren't ENJOYING the game then no I wouldn't pay.
These arguments are funny.. about how something can be "entertaining" but not worth 20 cents for an hours worth of fun.
I guess it's not that entertaining then if it's not even worth 20 cents to play for an hour. That damn bag of chips I bought from a vending machine cost me 4 times that (80 cents) and were gone in 30 seconds...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Originally posted by Gilllean Not really pal I'm from One of poorest country in world ))) but I'm with both hands for P2P simple gamers should grow up and get a job already !!
It is not because it has the sub. It is because the game is not worth the sub.
The game is not worth a sub to YOU. People need to stop acting like because they don't like a game that everybody else doesn't. The game is completely worth the sub to ME.
Originally posted by Gilllean Not really pal I'm from One of poorest country in world ))) but I'm with both hands for P2P simple gamers should grow up and get a job already !!
It is not because it has the sub. It is because the game is not worth the sub.
The game is not worth a sub to YOU. People need to stop acting like because they don't like a game that everybody else doesn't. The game is completely worth the sub to ME.
Do people really need to preface every single frickin' post with a disclaimer that their post is their opinion? This rebuttal gets used constantly around here. "That's just like... your opinion, man."
Maybe my time in this genre is up ... but I will never again play a game that has a hybrid model ... the only caveat to that is if a sub based game does have a cash shop they must have a way for the sub to get everything in it in game... this does not include someone else buying it from the cash shop and selling it in game.
I was on board with ESO until the cash shop announcement ... pre-order canceled. WildStar will get the same if they try to add anything beyond the game time...
Have to agree with you sir, reason why I quit playing SWtOR.
Although to be honest, ESO "cash shop" is not featured in game and the are selling items (well just one item as far as we know) that you can also buy in game with gold earned in game. The digital upgrade that they have announced , I have no problem with. The one thing that would make it fair is if the mount bought from them is bound to your account only.
But my pre order is still a go and I hope to see many of you there. ^^
This game goes free to play and I'm out. I honestly don't care what every persons stance is on P2P vs F2P. F2P brings in nothing but trash.
Poor conduct, poor behavior, poor incentive, etc. I've experience nothing but trolls and trash with F2P games. Does that mean P2P is better? NO. It just means when the hammer of wrath falls onto their sweaty little foreheads and bans or warnings are issued out it hold more meaning. Losing PAID time vs free time that cost nothing but wittling away when you've nothing to do holds less weight especially when most of the time you can just start a new FREE account.
Originally posted by Gilllean Not really pal I'm from One of poorest country in world ))) but I'm with both hands for P2P simple gamers should grow up and get a job already !!
It is not because it has the sub. It is because the game is not worth the sub.
The game is not worth a sub to YOU. People need to stop acting like because they don't like a game that everybody else doesn't. The game is completely worth the sub to ME.
I am sure he wasn't speaking on behalf of everyone. calm down.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Did your title say, "ESO with P2P will not long time live"?
LMAO you did mean, "ESO will not live long with P2P"?
I figured he was talking like yoda.
English isn't his native tongue and it's very easy to figure out what he meant. And for the record I agree with the OP 100%. Game will go F2P within a year, guaranteed.
Yes what he meant is obvious, didn't say it wasn't. And great it will be cheaper then...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This game goes free to play and I'm out. I honestly don't care what every persons stance is on P2P vs F2P. F2P brings in nothing but trash.
Poor conduct, poor behavior, poor incentive, etc. I've experience nothing but trolls and trash with F2P games. Does that mean P2P is better? NO. It just means when the hammer of wrath falls onto their sweaty little foreheads and bans or warnings are issued out it hold more meaning. Losing PAID time vs free time that cost nothing but wittling away when you've nothing to do holds less weight especially when most of the time you can just start a new FREE account.
P2P for life.
Your argument has a flaw... in F2P games, actual ones, you either pay with time (grind) or play with cash ( reduced grind) so the idea that trolls lose nothing when outright banned is false and thus the idea that one type of game is inferior in policing itself because of the payment model used is useless. I will grant you though that toxic individuals, the type that just want to ruin your fun for their own base gratification, have a easier time getting into a F2P game but lets be fair here: these people are no more common in F2P as they are in B2P or P2P, you just notice them as they also tend to also be kind of idiotic because they consider the game free when in fact they at least spent time which, if they have any concept of how a job works, has value.
This game goes free to play and I'm out. I honestly don't care what every persons stance is on P2P vs F2P. F2P brings in nothing but trash.
Poor conduct, poor behavior, poor incentive, etc. I've experience nothing but trolls and trash with F2P games. Does that mean P2P is better? NO. It just means when the hammer of wrath falls onto their sweaty little foreheads and bans or warnings are issued out it hold more meaning. Losing PAID time vs free time that cost nothing but wittling away when you've nothing to do holds less weight especially when most of the time you can just start a new FREE account.
P2P for life.
Its hilarious to even think that only because someone can afford 15 bucks a month he or she would act friendly, mature and have best of behavior in online games.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
The difference is that in a F2P game you can create limitless accounts to troll. All you need is an IP or an Email address. Both pretty simple to obtain.
In a P2P game when you are banned at least you would have to purchase the game again. Certainly not foolproof but it is a better filter.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This game goes free to play and I'm out. I honestly don't care what every persons stance is on P2P vs F2P. F2P brings in nothing but trash.
Poor conduct, poor behavior, poor incentive, etc. I've experience nothing but trolls and trash with F2P games. Does that mean P2P is better? NO. It just means when the hammer of wrath falls onto their sweaty little foreheads and bans or warnings are issued out it hold more meaning. Losing PAID time vs free time that cost nothing but wittling away when you've nothing to do holds less weight especially when most of the time you can just start a new FREE account.
P2P for life.
How about B2P as an alternative to P2P then? Losing the box price is probably enough of a deterrent for most people.
Comments
It effects them honestly because they want to play the game but don't want to pay.
That's why they make such a fuss. Then of course there's the other part of them that just want to see everything fail because they are just that bitter in their own life.
No Disassemble!!!
And what makes you 100% certain that ESO game shop won't have stuff like pink hair and bunny ears in future? we already know that in game shop exists.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Yes, I would have paid a sub for Skyrim if they constantly released updates and I could play coop. I put more time into Skyrim than a lot of the AAA mmos. SC2 and CS, you couldn't get me to pay 1.99 for the box. It goes to show that people will pay for what they like. Anyone that thinks 15 bucks a month is too much for ESO prolly doesn't have enough interest in the game to think it is worth that amount. Noones fault...just personal preference. Devs cannot cater to everyone. So much hate over such a petty thing. No amount of discussion will change that fact. If I liked a game enough, I would happily pay 80 bucks a month if it offered all the things that I like. I guess my enjoyment far outweighs the value of money.
So many jaded people in the world today...no one in particular. Shoe fits kind of statement.
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Present: Current offerings are low quality or soloable
Past:AoC, DCUO, FFXI,FFXIV 1.0 and ARR,WoW,Fallen Earth, Tabula Rasa, TSW, SWTOR, Rift, Aion, WAR, Darkfall, STO, CoH/CoV, GW2, Diaspora, EQ2, DDO, and a bunch of forgettable ftp games
DMKano disagrees, why am I not surprised..
Decrease from what? Do you now their budget? Any MMO developer with any sense knows better than you or me what their target monthly profit is - and here's a clue: it isn't based on the numbers at launch - that's the gravy. It's based on the predicted retention rate that is a fraction of the day 1 rates.
Of course subs will decrease just like they do in all MMOs. Their monthly budget will take the reality of the MMO gaming public's subscription habits into consideration when setting their targets.
Games don't go F2P because their sub numbers drop. They do it when their average monthly numbers drop below their budgeted target and continue to drop. And that's a number only they know but it wouldn't surprise me if it's below 20% retention.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Maybe my time in this genre is up ... but I will never again play a game that has a hybrid model ... the only caveat to that is if a sub based game does have a cash shop they must have a way for the sub to get everything in it in game... this does not include someone else buying it from the cash shop and selling it in game.
I was on board with ESO until the cash shop announcement ... pre-order canceled. WildStar will get the same if they try to add anything beyond the game time...
This was the first pre-order that I've ever cancelled. I learned my lesson on AOC,WAR, and SWTOR...lol
ESO lacks polish and is "full" of bugs, spend your money elsewhere.
Your extrapolating based on past launches and your personal value opinion of the game which I agree probably is the safe bet. Sooner or later however someone is going to do a new sub game right. I really don't know if it's going to be ESO or some future title as I think it's what a developer does after launch that determines the fate of the MMO more than what they do before but regardless there will be a title that proves people like you wrong at some point and it's going to turn the market upside down.
Umm... if I were ENJOYING any game, and there was continued development by the developers (and cost on their end) I'd be happy to pay. If I weren't ENJOYING the game then no I wouldn't pay.
These arguments are funny.. about how something can be "entertaining" but not worth 20 cents for an hours worth of fun.
I guess it's not that entertaining then if it's not even worth 20 cents to play for an hour. That damn bag of chips I bought from a vending machine cost me 4 times that (80 cents) and were gone in 30 seconds...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The game is not worth a sub to YOU. People need to stop acting like because they don't like a game that everybody else doesn't. The game is completely worth the sub to ME.
Do people really need to preface every single frickin' post with a disclaimer that their post is their opinion? This rebuttal gets used constantly around here. "That's just like... your opinion, man."
Have to agree with you sir, reason why I quit playing SWtOR.
Although to be honest, ESO "cash shop" is not featured in game and the are selling items (well just one item as far as we know) that you can also buy in game with gold earned in game. The digital upgrade that they have announced , I have no problem with. The one thing that would make it fair is if the mount bought from them is bound to your account only.
But my pre order is still a go and I hope to see many of you there. ^^
This game goes free to play and I'm out. I honestly don't care what every persons stance is on P2P vs F2P. F2P brings in nothing but trash.
Poor conduct, poor behavior, poor incentive, etc. I've experience nothing but trolls and trash with F2P games. Does that mean P2P is better? NO. It just means when the hammer of wrath falls onto their sweaty little foreheads and bans or warnings are issued out it hold more meaning. Losing PAID time vs free time that cost nothing but wittling away when you've nothing to do holds less weight especially when most of the time you can just start a new FREE account.
P2P for life.
I am sure he wasn't speaking on behalf of everyone. calm down.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Yes what he meant is obvious, didn't say it wasn't. And great it will be cheaper then...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Your argument has a flaw... in F2P games, actual ones, you either pay with time (grind) or play with cash ( reduced grind) so the idea that trolls lose nothing when outright banned is false and thus the idea that one type of game is inferior in policing itself because of the payment model used is useless. I will grant you though that toxic individuals, the type that just want to ruin your fun for their own base gratification, have a easier time getting into a F2P game but lets be fair here: these people are no more common in F2P as they are in B2P or P2P, you just notice them as they also tend to also be kind of idiotic because they consider the game free when in fact they at least spent time which, if they have any concept of how a job works, has value.
Its hilarious to even think that only because someone can afford 15 bucks a month he or she would act friendly, mature and have best of behavior in online games.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
The difference is that in a F2P game you can create limitless accounts to troll. All you need is an IP or an Email address. Both pretty simple to obtain.
In a P2P game when you are banned at least you would have to purchase the game again. Certainly not foolproof but it is a better filter.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There has never been a good game that launched as a F2P from day one. They all revolve around the cash shop which makes them unplayable to me.
That was actually the first thing that came to my mind too!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
How about B2P as an alternative to P2P then? Losing the box price is probably enough of a deterrent for most people.