Originally posted by Righteous_Rock holy crap - give it a break already man - just let them get burned the hard way. They will wisen up and learn that way. ESO is about to burn the wallets of about 2 million people, that's 2 more million educated people that will spend their money more wisely. It's also a pool of people that will become very discouraged with mmorpg's and probably never play one again.
care to elaborate? so 2 million people will buy and all quit this game and being so frustrated they quit mmo's forever? am i reading that right? LOL
That would have happened years ago LMAO....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm going to agree with the OP. I wasn't expecting to be dropped from the prison to the mainland, so I was actually quite bewildered upon appearing there.
I actually wanderd a considerable amount of time trying to figure out how to get to the starter zone, when someone said, take a boat. So I went down to the boats, and on them, yet no one on either boat had a quest to take me to the island.
Back into town, wandering around picked up a quest, turned out to be a level 12 quest, picked up another quest, level 5 or something, tried to kill a mob, got destroyed, respawn, damn, how the hell do I get back?
So then someone says, look for a quest giver, finally find a NPC quite a ways up off the beach telling me if I want to go to a new land, find a certain Npc on the beach. Find next NPC and finally am dropped back into starter zone.
Thing is, I knew what I was looking for, had I been totally new to the game, I would have been totally lost, and perhaps never realized a starter zone existed.
So I would have preferred to have been given the choice after rising from the prison, who knows, perhaps at launch they can make this happen.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They cut the starter island, big deal. Now the OP's title about butchering the starting experience is an extreme exaggeration.
The starter island wasn't a starting experience. Starting experiences in MMOs introduce players to, in no particular order, but some or all of these types of things:
Weapon choices
Grouping
Communication Tabs
How to Gather raw materials
How to Craft
How to move between areas
Inventory management
Banking
How to ask for help
Consequences of spec choices
How to "con" a monster
Other basic quest mechanics (perhaps in ESO disguise, as that seemed popular in zone chat)
etc.
If the starter island covered most of that list, but was still as boring as the starter island was a couple weeks ago, I would understand OPs complaint; but instead all I see missing is a few unnecessary dialogs and wall of text messages.
The game isn't perfect, but cutting the starter islands was an improvement not another thing to complain about.
There is a post here that they are making further change to starter islands based on feedback from last beta
Starter Islands: We made this decision to give the players lots more choice in the early moments of the game. Not being able to leave the starter islands was too much on rails. So, we made the starter islands just "islands" and let players explore them when they want, along with other level 3-8 content. But after (much) feedback, we made it too hard to find the quest giver to send you to the island, so we are making one more change before launch: now, you’ll find a questgiver directly outside your front door to direct you to the islands. You don’t have to go there, but you can if you want. Choice.
Oh my god, here we go. The starting island was changed because of the high amount of press and user feedback stating that they greatly disliked how you were completely stuck at the starting islands, which isn't very "Edler Scrollsy". Now this last beta the change was half-assedly implemented, there was a quest giver outside the boat you wake up in AD pointing you to the starting islands, but he still had no voice dialgue implemented. The other alliances had some half-done quest giver or none at all which would point you to the starting islands.
Now, it's retarded to think they would have not finished the new start and the MINOR tweaks in the story to justify this. Theres nothing to complain and nothing to discuss here, this is, again, a MINOR issue, so stop making such a big fuss over something that will annoy you for 1-2 hours of your countless hours you will spend enjoying the rest of the game.
I'm going to agree with the OP. I wasn't expecting to be dropped from the prison to the mainland, so I was actually quite bewildered upon appearing there.
I actually wanderd a considerable amount of time trying to figure out how to get to the starter zone, when someone said, take a boat. So I went down to the boats, and on them, yet no one on either boat had a quest to take me to the island.
Back into town, wandering around picked up a quest, turned out to be a level 12 quest, picked up another quest, level 5 or something, tried to kill a mob, got destroyed, respawn, damn, how the hell do I get back?
So then someone says, look for a quest giver, finally find a NPC quite a ways up off the beach telling me if I want to go to a new land, find a certain Npc on the beach. Find next NPC and finally am dropped back into starter zone.
Thing is, I knew what I was looking for, had I been totally new to the game, I would have been totally lost, and perhaps never realized a starter zone existed.
So I would have preferred to have been given the choice after rising from the prison, who knows, perhaps at launch they can make this happen.
What they're doing is putting him right in front of you where you load in.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh my god, here we go. The starting island was changed because of the high amount of press and user feedback stating that they greatly disliked how you were completely stuck at the starting islands, which isn't very "Edler Scrollsy". Now this last beta the change was half-assedly implemented, there was a quest giver outside the boat you wake up in AD pointing you to the starting islands, but he still had no voice dialgue implemented. The other alliances had some half-done quest giver or none at all which would point you to the starting islands.
Now, it's retarded to think they would have not finished the new start and the MINOR tweaks in the story to justify this. Theres nothing to complain and nothing to discuss here, this is, again, a MINOR issue, so stop making such a big fuss over something that will annoy you for 1-2 hours of your countless hours you will spend enjoying the rest of the game.
Well said sir.
I really don't understand all the unnecessary whining that's taking place over former starting areas that represent a fraction of what the game has to offer.
Can we please just get it out of our heads that these islands were supposed to be tutorial "starter experience" islands? Just accept that they are islands with additional content, that you can get to easily and immediately if you wish.
I swear, I never would have thought the very players who said the beginning was too linear would be the same ones begging for more hand holding. Be careful what you wish for.
I don't understand the issue here. I actually liked the starter islands, but I also like the option to be able to skip them with alt characters. Some of you are complete drama queens...
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As a long time fan of the Elder Scrolls, I loved this change. It made the game feel much more like an Elder Scrolls game and less like every other theme park mmo ... which I thought was a nice touch considering the theme park nature of the quests in this game. Honestly I don't get why people are complaining so much. The first npc I talked to in the main city gave me a quest to go to the starting islands. It was easy to find. However, I can already see the starting cities quickly devolving into a flashback to Barren's chat.
Aside from all of the glitchy quests, I thought the improvements made to the last beta weekend were excellent. I will be enjoying this game with my friends at launch, regardless of those who choose to whine about it. It's a fun game, plain and simple.
Originally posted by Datastar Im just saying they butchered the experience for me and many many more, i have several friends who participated in that last beta for the first time and wont touch this game after that. It made me look like a fool to them for recommending this title to them based on prior play sessions i had. Are they addressing the broken quests yes, are they making the starting islands easier to get to from the city yes, but did they fix the flow and continuity the game previously had at the start hell no.
Your friends won't play because the tutorial isn't the best? The tutorial area? The part that equals out to be less than 1% of what they'll see should they decide to play on? Tutorial zone? Tutorial? We talkin' 'bout tutorial, man. Tutorial. It's a tutorial.
I had to make an account just to tell you that I laughed heartily at this reference.
I agree with the OP, there was nothing wrong with the starter islands,it is great content. Those people complaining about that in general cancellled their pre orders because by now they realised its not their cup og tea..
they panicked
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They aren't changing it back based off the AMA today and it isn't THAT big of a deal since they are adjusting it some. The main issue was that when you got to the main city there was hardly any direction on how to get back to the starter islands and now they put the npc right in front of your face. Also the weapon issue from Coldharbour is being addressed so 2 of the biggest things not such a big deal anymore. I still agree they should have made you go to starter island first then option to switch from there but oh well, no biggie.
Originally posted by LisaFlexy22 They aren't changing it back based off the AMA today and it isn't THAT big of a deal since they are adjusting it some. The main issue was that when you got to the main city there was hardly any direction on how to get back to the starter islands and now they put the npc right in front of your face. Also the weapon issue from Coldharbour is being addressed so 2 of the biggest things not such a big deal anymore. I still agree they should have made you go to starter island first then option to switch from there but oh well, no biggie.
ON my second read it almost made me LOL Considering all the complaints about finding him. SLap... Not saying it wasn't a valid complaint for some. It's just funny because there's always so many complaining about hand holding and the like. At some point devs have to wanna bitch slap somebody
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
To me the only 'starter' are was Cold Harbor/Intro. The level 2-5 or 6 was 'area'. There are quests, the tutorials are over that all. For whatever reason they decided to change that and make it so that you can pop directly into the game.
(I really thought the 1st character had to do CH/Intro and then subsequent characters could skip...that how I am going to approac it at any rate).
During the last beta the DC faction seems the easiest to find the guy/gal to head back to the level 2+ content. The AD factions wasn't difficult but the quest marker was off (for me). The EP, I ran all over the bloody place before I found the guy on the way down to the docks that gave you a quest to h find the gal/guy ON the docks.
I must have told people a good 30+ times over the weekend who/how to find.
It will be good to have the quest giver right in front of you to take you back. (For some reason it appeared that the AD was trying to do that but the anchor icon was in one location and the NPC was at the other end of the dock)
Ultimately it would seem more logical to me if they had:
1. Made it impossible to pass CH without 1 character running it in full (I think that is how it is but some here say not)
2. Had any characters either leaving CH or skipping it after the 1st, to go to the level 2+ zones (as though they had just left CH) and had an NPC there saying 'Click here to skip the non-starter starter area' rather then sending them forward and then backwards for the thousands of players who want to go back.
As it stands its forward then back vs a relatively simple command decision (once they decided to give the skipping option a go) to go forward then forward again. More logical, causes no harm to anyone. Folks who want the starter areas (by definition) are there (vs going BACK) and folks wanting to skip have to click one more time to head out into the big bold world.
*shrug*
Whatever. I'm going to run CH at least on my 1st. No more Motifs but still some good starter drops. Then I'll head BACK to the starter areas.
well, considering how buggy these "starter islands" were, hopefully they fixed them; there are things in this game that requires attention but as usual, devs need to find a way to shut down the crybabies
Originally posted by Datastar No you only get the choice to skip the prison the starting islands are optional for all now and the story is completely borked due to this.
So if I want I can skip the prison and the island is optional, which means I can do it if I want? How is the story "borked" These are YOUR words by the way, are you sure you are using them correctly?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Even your first char will bypass the starter island but they are added a new quest dude at the place you land now who will tell you about the island and give you a quest to go there.
Fixed
You now have the best of both worlds
That seems so backwards to me. Why wouldn't they do what just about every other mmorpg (with a seperate tutorial area) has done in the past and start you there by default -- with the option to leave if you don't want to stay? Doing it in the opposite order seems strange.
But they did.
At least it seems so in the Ebonheart area so I see no reason why it would have been different in the other areas.
As soon as you left cold harbor you would "wake up" in an area. You had the choice to help the people of that area or you could opt to "leave right now".
The issues were that people wanted to experience the content, the story and found out that the area was a bit lackluster.
The first "island" or Tamriel bit isn't really a tutorial. It's just the start of the story. I wonder if a lot of the people who complained were on the Ebonheart part of it because after playign a bit of the Aldmeri dominion bit, it really was lakluster.
Obviously too late to change it for launch so this is sort of a "hot fix". Hopefully they will change a few things to make it seem more seemless.
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People should stop complaining about the change. it's a good one. They even just announced they'll make it more obvious how to go to the 'starter island'.
It's kinda hard to butcher something that was terrible to begin with.
That's the overwhelming critique they've gotten: for 2 of the 3 factions, the starting islands were boring, uninspired and lame. It was a linear MMO, the type I've played before for the last 10 years, and by level 4, I'd already stopped playing because I was bored. *shrug*
It's really only a question of whether their change made the new player experience slightly better than terrible.
Originally posted by Skeeter50 Note to ZOS: Make and play YOUR game. The vocal minority is a danger to all developers.
They are making their own game - they changed it because as they said in the latest AMA on reddit "it felt too on rails" - which it did.
Where they screwed up is that they failed to fix the on-rails part, they just made players skip the islands, the problem remains - forced questing to leave a zone is BAD design.
What will kill ESO first and foremost is questing is shoved down our throats as the only viable way of progression.
This leaves a lot of PvP players in a funky predicament - you can't effectively advance via PvP, you have to do boring (my opinion) PvE quests from 1-50++.
So we have a game with possibly the best mass PvP on the market, where players are forced to do PvE to compete in PvP.
????
Basic problem in game design 101
I actually agree with you Kano. I think it's a mistake for them to make questing the primary source of XP. It doesn't help that they have been reducing the experience gain from mobs.
(a) People eventually get sick of too much questing
(b) The quests in ESO are mostly your regular mmo-type quests (less so the epic Elder Scrolls-type quests you embark on).
Comments
That would have happened years ago LMAO....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm going to agree with the OP. I wasn't expecting to be dropped from the prison to the mainland, so I was actually quite bewildered upon appearing there.
I actually wanderd a considerable amount of time trying to figure out how to get to the starter zone, when someone said, take a boat. So I went down to the boats, and on them, yet no one on either boat had a quest to take me to the island.
Back into town, wandering around picked up a quest, turned out to be a level 12 quest, picked up another quest, level 5 or something, tried to kill a mob, got destroyed, respawn, damn, how the hell do I get back?
So then someone says, look for a quest giver, finally find a NPC quite a ways up off the beach telling me if I want to go to a new land, find a certain Npc on the beach. Find next NPC and finally am dropped back into starter zone.
Thing is, I knew what I was looking for, had I been totally new to the game, I would have been totally lost, and perhaps never realized a starter zone existed.
So I would have preferred to have been given the choice after rising from the prison, who knows, perhaps at launch they can make this happen.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They cut the starter island, big deal. Now the OP's title about butchering the starting experience is an extreme exaggeration.
The starter island wasn't a starting experience. Starting experiences in MMOs introduce players to, in no particular order, but some or all of these types of things:
If the starter island covered most of that list, but was still as boring as the starter island was a couple weeks ago, I would understand OPs complaint; but instead all I see missing is a few unnecessary dialogs and wall of text messages.
The game isn't perfect, but cutting the starter islands was an improvement not another thing to complain about.
There is a post here that they are making further change to starter islands based on feedback from last beta
Starter Islands: We made this decision to give the players lots more choice in the early moments of the game. Not being able to leave the starter islands was too much on rails. So, we made the starter islands just "islands" and let players explore them when they want, along with other level 3-8 content. But after (much) feedback, we made it too hard to find the quest giver to send you to the island, so we are making one more change before launch: now, you’ll find a questgiver directly outside your front door to direct you to the islands. You don’t have to go there, but you can if you want. Choice.
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Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
"Butchered the experience", lol, oh wait you're serious.
Oh my god, here we go. The starting island was changed because of the high amount of press and user feedback stating that they greatly disliked how you were completely stuck at the starting islands, which isn't very "Edler Scrollsy". Now this last beta the change was half-assedly implemented, there was a quest giver outside the boat you wake up in AD pointing you to the starting islands, but he still had no voice dialgue implemented. The other alliances had some half-done quest giver or none at all which would point you to the starting islands.
Now, it's retarded to think they would have not finished the new start and the MINOR tweaks in the story to justify this. Theres nothing to complain and nothing to discuss here, this is, again, a MINOR issue, so stop making such a big fuss over something that will annoy you for 1-2 hours of your countless hours you will spend enjoying the rest of the game.
What they're doing is putting him right in front of you where you load in.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well said sir.
I really don't understand all the unnecessary whining that's taking place over former starting areas that represent a fraction of what the game has to offer.
Can we please just get it out of our heads that these islands were supposed to be tutorial "starter experience" islands? Just accept that they are islands with additional content, that you can get to easily and immediately if you wish.
I swear, I never would have thought the very players who said the beginning was too linear would be the same ones begging for more hand holding. Be careful what you wish for.
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As a long time fan of the Elder Scrolls, I loved this change. It made the game feel much more like an Elder Scrolls game and less like every other theme park mmo ... which I thought was a nice touch considering the theme park nature of the quests in this game. Honestly I don't get why people are complaining so much. The first npc I talked to in the main city gave me a quest to go to the starting islands. It was easy to find. However, I can already see the starting cities quickly devolving into a flashback to Barren's chat.
Aside from all of the glitchy quests, I thought the improvements made to the last beta weekend were excellent. I will be enjoying this game with my friends at launch, regardless of those who choose to whine about it. It's a fun game, plain and simple.
I had to make an account just to tell you that I laughed heartily at this reference.
Thank you, internet sir.
I agree with the OP, there was nothing wrong with the starter islands,it is great content. Those people complaining about that in general cancellled their pre orders because by now they realised its not their cup og tea..
they panicked
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
ON my second read it almost made me LOL Considering all the complaints about finding him. SLap... Not saying it wasn't a valid complaint for some. It's just funny because there's always so many complaining about hand holding and the like. At some point devs have to wanna bitch slap somebody
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
To me the only 'starter' are was Cold Harbor/Intro. The level 2-5 or 6 was 'area'. There are quests, the tutorials are over that all. For whatever reason they decided to change that and make it so that you can pop directly into the game.
(I really thought the 1st character had to do CH/Intro and then subsequent characters could skip...that how I am going to approac it at any rate).
During the last beta the DC faction seems the easiest to find the guy/gal to head back to the level 2+ content. The AD factions wasn't difficult but the quest marker was off (for me). The EP, I ran all over the bloody place before I found the guy on the way down to the docks that gave you a quest to h find the gal/guy ON the docks.
I must have told people a good 30+ times over the weekend who/how to find.
It will be good to have the quest giver right in front of you to take you back. (For some reason it appeared that the AD was trying to do that but the anchor icon was in one location and the NPC was at the other end of the dock)
Ultimately it would seem more logical to me if they had:
1. Made it impossible to pass CH without 1 character running it in full (I think that is how it is but some here say not)
2. Had any characters either leaving CH or skipping it after the 1st, to go to the level 2+ zones (as though they had just left CH) and had an NPC there saying 'Click here to skip the non-starter starter area' rather then sending them forward and then backwards for the thousands of players who want to go back.
As it stands its forward then back vs a relatively simple command decision (once they decided to give the skipping option a go) to go forward then forward again. More logical, causes no harm to anyone. Folks who want the starter areas (by definition) are there (vs going BACK) and folks wanting to skip have to click one more time to head out into the big bold world.
*shrug*
Whatever. I'm going to run CH at least on my 1st. No more Motifs but still some good starter drops. Then I'll head BACK to the starter areas.
Past: EQ, EQ2, DAoC, SWG, WoW, LotR, VG, WAR, GW, GW2, Rift
Present: The Elder Scrolls Online
Future: Everquest Next
I just don't understand how people can complain about this.
Just use the power of imagination and STOP thinking of the island as the "STARTER ISLAND"!!!
It is not the 'starter island' anymore. It is a quest hub to discover once you finish Coldharbor tutorial area. Jesus, let it go people.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
So if I want I can skip the prison and the island is optional, which means I can do it if I want? How is the story "borked" These are YOUR words by the way, are you sure you are using them correctly?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
But they did.
At least it seems so in the Ebonheart area so I see no reason why it would have been different in the other areas.
As soon as you left cold harbor you would "wake up" in an area. You had the choice to help the people of that area or you could opt to "leave right now".
The issues were that people wanted to experience the content, the story and found out that the area was a bit lackluster.
The first "island" or Tamriel bit isn't really a tutorial. It's just the start of the story. I wonder if a lot of the people who complained were on the Ebonheart part of it because after playign a bit of the Aldmeri dominion bit, it really was lakluster.
Obviously too late to change it for launch so this is sort of a "hot fix". Hopefully they will change a few things to make it seem more seemless.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's kinda hard to butcher something that was terrible to begin with.
That's the overwhelming critique they've gotten: for 2 of the 3 factions, the starting islands were boring, uninspired and lame. It was a linear MMO, the type I've played before for the last 10 years, and by level 4, I'd already stopped playing because I was bored. *shrug*
It's really only a question of whether their change made the new player experience slightly better than terrible.
The problem with changes like this.
it starts with massive whining,theres tiny amounts of people with grazy amount of volume.
Its grazy scenario ,like when baby is crying and you tell him to stop,and most likely he wont and theres nothing you can do.
But in the interneets ,you need to go to their level and cry even louder and only then it works.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
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I actually agree with you Kano. I think it's a mistake for them to make questing the primary source of XP. It doesn't help that they have been reducing the experience gain from mobs.
(a) People eventually get sick of too much questing
(b) The quests in ESO are mostly your regular mmo-type quests (less so the epic Elder Scrolls-type quests you embark on).
That's just, like, my opinion, man.