I was trying to think of some mechanics that might work ... many MMOs have the notion that there is a war of some kind going on at a grand scale ... we're always fighting back some bad guy and his minions. Well, if all the "instances" / "dungeons" / "boss fights" (ie encounters where people want to group up to get cool loot) happen on the "front lines," then your NPC Field Marshal / General / Mage Council can assess your group's abilities and send you to the appropriate place on the front where your group can help.
Now your group gets to fight a battle that looks something like a WoW Mt. Hyjal running encounter, or a Rift rift opening etc. and over the course of many successful and unsuccessful battles, the location of the front line can change. The status of the big epic battle is changed by each of the smaller battles keeping it sandboxy but as long as long as there is a front line this set of "instances" are available. If the enemy is sufficiently defeated on this front, well, then they open up a front in another location and now the front lines are somewhere else.
I recognize this to be a little simplistic and mechanistic, but with some more thought into how the instanced fights fit within a bigger evolving picture, I don't see why you can't have instances that support a sandbox.
Everyone knows that instances go frontally againts all the realism, sandboxiness and world feeling of a mmo.
Everyone knows this? I disagree.
I find it a lot more realistic when a game sends me to a new and different (dynamically generated and instanced) area for each quest than when i get sent to kill the same bear in the same uninstanced cave that potentially has the game's entire 1-million player population in it.
A game with super-heavy use of intancing that is used well - like Anarchy Online - feels just as much - and probably more - like a world than a game without it, like Vanguard.
Instancing is a population-management tool. Nothing more and nothing less. It can be used to build themepark or sandbox content. It can be used well or poorly.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Everyone knows that instances go frontally againts all the realism, sandboxiness and world feeling of a mmo.
Everyone knows this? I disagree.
I find it a lot more realistic when a game sends me to a new and different (dynamically generated and instanced) area for each quest than when i get sent to kill the same bear in the same uninstanced cave that potentially has the game's entire 1-million player population in it.
A game with super-heavy use of intancing that is used well - like Anarchy Online - feels just as much - and probably more - like a world than a game without it, like Vanguard.
Instancing is a population-management tool. Nothing more and nothing less. It can be used to build themepark or sandbox content. It can be used well or poorly.
Perhaps they are going about it wrong then. In theory if you are playing in a world with other people they there may have been other people hired to go do the same quest as you are. The solution is not to instance the quest so that you can do it without worrying about others. The solution is to make it hard enough that people can't sit camping it all day worry free. There has to be a better answer than just having people go into their own special area where they are cut off from everyone else.
This actually reminds me of a mechanic that I was discussing yesterday that old games used and is the reason for having rest time to regain health in old MMOs. What if they made it so people didn't get their health and magic back. They could only get it back by going back to town and resting. That would prevent people from sitting at one spot and camping it and it wouldn't isolate people from each other either.
Comments
I was trying to think of some mechanics that might work ... many MMOs have the notion that there is a war of some kind going on at a grand scale ... we're always fighting back some bad guy and his minions. Well, if all the "instances" / "dungeons" / "boss fights" (ie encounters where people want to group up to get cool loot) happen on the "front lines," then your NPC Field Marshal / General / Mage Council can assess your group's abilities and send you to the appropriate place on the front where your group can help.
Now your group gets to fight a battle that looks something like a WoW Mt. Hyjal running encounter, or a Rift rift opening etc. and over the course of many successful and unsuccessful battles, the location of the front line can change. The status of the big epic battle is changed by each of the smaller battles keeping it sandboxy but as long as long as there is a front line this set of "instances" are available. If the enemy is sufficiently defeated on this front, well, then they open up a front in another location and now the front lines are somewhere else.
I recognize this to be a little simplistic and mechanistic, but with some more thought into how the instanced fights fit within a bigger evolving picture, I don't see why you can't have instances that support a sandbox.
Everyone knows this? I disagree.
I find it a lot more realistic when a game sends me to a new and different (dynamically generated and instanced) area for each quest than when i get sent to kill the same bear in the same uninstanced cave that potentially has the game's entire 1-million player population in it.
A game with super-heavy use of intancing that is used well - like Anarchy Online - feels just as much - and probably more - like a world than a game without it, like Vanguard.
Instancing is a population-management tool. Nothing more and nothing less. It can be used to build themepark or sandbox content. It can be used well or poorly.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Perhaps they are going about it wrong then. In theory if you are playing in a world with other people they there may have been other people hired to go do the same quest as you are. The solution is not to instance the quest so that you can do it without worrying about others. The solution is to make it hard enough that people can't sit camping it all day worry free. There has to be a better answer than just having people go into their own special area where they are cut off from everyone else.
This actually reminds me of a mechanic that I was discussing yesterday that old games used and is the reason for having rest time to regain health in old MMOs. What if they made it so people didn't get their health and magic back. They could only get it back by going back to town and resting. That would prevent people from sitting at one spot and camping it and it wouldn't isolate people from each other either.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Even if true, few cares. Otherwise instances would not be such a big standard feature.
Realism is not as important as gameplay.
Sandbox is not as important as fun.
World feel is not as important as convenience.
.... for me ... of course.
Don't worry ... if these kind of ideas hold any water, it would have been done long time ago.
No one is going to take instances away. In fact, given the rise of MOBA, there are probably going to be MORE instance centric game, not fewer.
Don't worry ... if these kind of ideas hold any water, it would have been done long time ago.
No one is going to take instances away. In fact, given the rise of MOBA, there are probably going to be MORE instance centric game, not fewer.
I hope some AAA or Indie company comes out with no instances and A true sanbox game.Below is where we can disscuss and come up with new ideas for Sandparks!
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5164689#5164689