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EQHammer - A Review of the Landmark Alpha
"SOE deserves credit for true innovation - they are the first to try and make a full-scale MMO out of a voxel-based building game. Unfortunately, their efforts to do so kind of highlight that voxel-based sandbox games don’t really work in the MMO space." Full Article
tl:dr - Boring people developing a boring game. The claim system built to handle griefers, breaks the game. Come back in a few months.
Comments
EQHammer - "If a software product is for sale, then a review is not only admissible but necessary - consumers deserve to get some idea of a product before they pay for it."
"I know the game is in alpha, I know the things that are missing are coming, but since I had to pay, I'm going to complain and point out the obvious."
That's a bit better.
Landmark is exactly what is is supposed to be at this time. SOE has been very honest and clear with where the game is and where it is going.
Flip likes to make up a problem, set his own definitions, and then complain that the problems are real because of his definitions.
Such as the game being in alpha (early development), but since it cost money to participate, it is a release and therefore open for comparison to a complete game. Logic not included. Great click bait though, gotta give him that for his articles.
Again with the "sandbox" definition. Since there isn't total freedom to do whatever anyone wants (good luck company that tries that) it fails. I hope there is an OW FFA PVP server, I'll love camping his corpse lol.
I cringe when people call Landmark a sandbox. It's as much sandbox as 3dmax or any other design tool.
Yeah, don't we all. PvP to Omeed and Darrin is racing to the same iron node or tree, to harvest, they said "it had a pvp-ish feel, and we don't want that". Griefing is building blocks around someone. These are the type of people who think pvp = ganking = griefing.
I said a couple a months ago, "This will be hard to mess up." This team is doing fine job at it. They are making it look easy.
looks like a very shallow approach to the potential of voxels and destructible environments in an MMO; just because in Landmark claims are protected, doesn't mean that in EQNext there can't exist "Borderland" claims that CAN be destroyed, or whatever other ruleset SOE have in mind.
Landmark is the test platfom for the core technology. If it works (and apparently it works) the ruleset can be decided later on.
"But if you’re looking for a more complete experience, something like an AAA-version of Minecraft, then I advise you to hold off on buying a Founder’s Pack."
...whoa! You mean the alpha isn't a complete experience?! Outrageous! How dare they?!
Current PC Build
http://pcpartpicker.com/b/p8RBD3
Present: Current offerings are low quality or soloable
Past:AoC, DCUO, FFXI,FFXIV 1.0 and ARR,WoW,Fallen Earth, Tabula Rasa, TSW, SWTOR, Rift, Aion, WAR, Darkfall, STO, CoH/CoV, GW2, Diaspora, EQ2, DDO, and a bunch of forgettable ftp games
This ^ :
NEXT =
LANDMARK = https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE1KffI-n1RVN4iOTNEMMaA
Don't get the 2 confused please.
Edit : no bashing here sorry i re-read my post it looks like i am bashing you but i am not, just trying to clarify to the others that the 2 types have different purpose. 1 the creator of content the other the mmorpg / sandbox style game.
That's the thing... EQN:L is not even Minecraft. If it was more, the world would be going crazy. You say it will be? No, no it wont if it continues down this conservative road of restrictive play.
You see, this is the issue that people are seeing. It's not because of what Landmark doesn't have, it's what it's being designed not to have. Example, It was billed as a world builder, but instead they give you a box, that's like 1/1000 of the world and say build in that.
It's kinda amazing, you start with this fully buildible/destructible world, then first thing you do is make claims boxes, so that you cannot build or destroy in that world. Strange vision, strange design.
yeah, how they dare to make a game about creating and not about destroying, thats outrageous!
This really has nothing to do with innovation,Voxels was already bantered around BEFORE SOE mentioned it.
SOE was simply seeing the current trends of crowd funding,sat down and tried to think of a way to make money from a VERY low cost idea to help fund Next and w/o the label of a crowd funding project.Then the marketing pitch was to tell gamer's it is all about YOU,"YOU" being a famous word to use in Psychology and to tell players it is THEIR world and tell then go on to tell them they are creating wonderful things.
Here is the shinny of it.Voxel farm is licensed by SOE,so they put no effort there into the tools,the players make the content ,so again no effort by SOE,it is just a crowd funding gimmick for Next.If they truly wanted to create soemthing great,they would have combined the whole thing,but then that would be an unfinished game and SOE would have no pitch to get funding unless asking for crowd funding and they knew that would cause negative flak.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This highlights what I've been saying perfectly, eqnl is not even Minecraft. Landmark is about building for the sake of building with out function or purpose, a sterile tool and canvas for an artist, for a 3d modeler. Not a game for gamers.
To call it a game would be to exaggerate. At this point it would be better sold at a trade show for $299.
I think sandbox is a pretty pointless term, yet people such as the author of this "review" love to toss it around like it proves something. The only sandbox is the one at the children's park. Anything players have has restrictions and no matter what is going to be missing one bullet point that "must" be there says random gamer joe smoe.
You are twisting what has been said to suit your opinion (not that we don't all do this). I believe that quote was from the forums, not from the video. The video actually seemed pretty pro-pvp.
Griefing is causing others to have an unwanted negative experience. If you really want to play a game where you can go in and totally screw up someone else's day, there isn't much to say. If you want to play in a world where there is accepted conflict, that is another story. Ex: Pulling 20 orcs onto a group of people in a PVE zone would be griefing. Blowing up an enemies castle in a PVP zone and then camping their corpse is fun, of course it sucks for the loser, but that's what they signed up for.
Not sure what they have messed up yet. Everything is pretty much on track. What you want (screw with anyone) is more than possible in Landmark. Simply flip a switch and ta da, kill and destroy. There isn't even combat, bit early to say they are messing up PVP or anything else more complicated at this point.
It is also barely leaving Alpha and has a long way and a ton of systems to add to make it into a world builder. Is it currently there, no. Will it be, seems like that is their intention.
They are working through things and hopefully it will all come together. Having total freedom to do whatever you want will not work in a big name mmo. It just isn't possible. I do not know of what fantasy mmorpg that has zero rules. There is a reason for that, not because no companies has the balls, it would just be a big waste of money.
So let me get this straight, so I'm not misrepresenting your position.
You believe Landmark should let one random person log in at 4AM while you're asleep and delete the Taj Mahal you spent a month building.
Is that your position?
Uh huh, and why don't you list for us all the AAA games I can play with the Voxel Farm engine. It's like saying Steve Jobs isn't an innovator because somebody at Xerox came up with a windowed operation system years earlier. Somebody has to bring it to the masses.
As a follower of the procworld blog I can assure you that you are talking out your butt regarding the tools. Miguel Cepero's vision for the UI was very different than Landmark's, particularly regarding the selection tool. But beyond that, having a voxel engine, doesn't mean using it is free. Somebody had to build all the materials, design the deletion meshes used when you smash the ground with a pick or dynamite, figure out how to blend, say, topaz into iron, design all the biomes, and so on.
SOE is doing what they must do, namely get this new tech in the hands of thousands of players early on, so they can iron out the unforeseen problems with it (and further leverage unexpected user discoveries, eg "microvoxels", "antivoxels", "inlaying") before going live. Note that they removed the "Everquest Next" prefix and are just calling it "Landmark" now, so that sci fi folks won't think it's just for swords & sorcery.
If they make money doing so, good for them. I certainly am getting my money's worth and it's less buggy than TESO.
I'm confused, do you think SOE is an indie start up in need of players to fund a game that has been in development (without any player involvement) for many years? Do you really think they are saving millions upon millions going the route they are?
I love how you and others seem to forget that Landmark and EQN will both be F2P. Looking at where the company has been heading (PS2) and what we've seen so far, they aren't going out of their way to make these games into money funneling machines, emptying poor gamer pockets. Players make content with what devs create, this isn't a chicken or the egg situation.
I'm assuming you haven't tried the alpha/beta and really aren't following Landmark if you think they've put no effort into the tools. As I'm guessing you've researched Voxel Farm and how the UI/tools work on the creators end, since you know they were out BEFORE SOE decided to get un-innovative and use them in a real game.
The shinny of it is you are the minority, good luck bringing all the rain clouds. Landmark is a lot of fun, even in this stage, and it will be amazing once it really takes off. Hopefully EQN is just as good or better.
Hopefully EQN will be different. Landmark is really just SOE's what SOE is using to get players to create content for the real "game".
lol I can't wait to see people's reaction when Next is released in conjunction with Landmark and all these people who fancy themselves "builders" get the SOE rejection letter telling them that their creation didn't make it into the cash shop and won't be in Next, but that you can still enjoy total building freedom in Landmark.
So guys, next gen AI is for certain right? Storyblocks are going to make AI that's like super smart right?
i dont know how EQN will function
at SOE Live last summer they said you would not be able to destroy some public structures
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/02/soe-live-2013-everquest-next-explained/
So why is having a world made of voxels important to you? Because it means everything in the world can be destroyed! If you wanted a way to affect the world, just envision actually blowing up a bridge to keep mobs from getting to you or collapsing a tunnel so no one happening by for a while can find the cavern and quests underneath. Although these changes aren't totally permanent, they will be around for a while; after a time the world itself will respawn, thereby preventing players from completely destroying the world -- and therefore the game -- forever. [Edited with newly revealed information]
Although these changes are not truly permanent, isn't that level of permanency in games something many a sandbox fan has just been longing for? true permanence is a theme throughout the game (see questing below). [Edited with additional information revealed] Of course, just because everything can be destroyed doesn't mean the devs will let you! As Georgeson explained to me, if some areas weren't restricted, Qeynos would become a parking lot in no time thanks to all you pyromaniacs. Keep in mind, though, such restrictions are only on players, not mobs.
EQ2 fan sites
Yeah bad development.
Everyone knows griefing is good for business. Isn't it 101 game design to design a game so you can lets a small fraction of your customer base piss off the rest of your customer base?
This thread is funny.
Go back to AOW OP.
Here is a raw slab of beef. I have paid for it and shall now review it´s taste.
It is bland and fairly boring compared to a full cooked meal.
Guess what... Most people would say "no shit sherlock".
Now i am not going to say that the review is per se wrong... After all if the core of the game stay the same it might very well turn out boring. After all Minecraft put me to sleep every time. But if you buy a raw stake, it will most likley be a raw stake.
This have been a good conversation
[mod edit]
@dandurin - No way, that's crazy. As I've said time and time again there needs to be servers where these people can be protected and encourage to be creative.