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I've been waiting for this game as long many others, almost a year of checking the the forum for updates every couple weeks. I'm a major fan of the P&P game I played as a child and loved it. Couldn't wait to play. Got into the beta a week ago.
This game is instanced and I LOVE that. As a former 2 year SWG player I'm so tired of having to spend hour after hour camping a boss for the one in six chance of being the one who gets to loot the body for the best loot. The game is focused on groups but its easy as piss to get in one. The players are older and mature and the conversations are fun and the play is good.
The central world is large enough to explore and allows you to move around with all the other players and talk and chat and have fun. I dont see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where I'm going. Granted they may be beautiful but I'm always about getting going and doing more action and trading or chatting to players, not just sitting in a vehicle waiting to get to the mission.
I ABSOLUTELY agree tho that it would be very cool to be able to plant castles at higher levels, etc. and have your own shops, etc. This was something that was amazing in the P&P game and is lacking here. But these games can't launch as the end all be all for everyone straight away. The missions could use slightly more variety in their traps and environments but Im also a rather low level so imagine these will come in. I am also a big fan of PVP but the P&P game is not really about PVP but playing as a group on a common mission and I like that. I also like that the developers will spend more time developing cooler missions rather than trying to keep player vs player balancing going.
The levelling is also at a good pace. After you get the swing of things you move up one rank in about an hour or two at most so your constantly getting new benefits. I've played about 15 hours and I'm still interested and enjoying it and the community thats playing seems to as well for the most part, even tho all these forums are showing people not happy, it doesn't seem that way on the beta servers.
I'm looking forward to the live version!
Martin - Majere Naj
Comments
I completely agree.
I love the beta and will love the live version. I guess it just isnt to everyones liking.
Personally I have been bored of MMO's since I left UO many years ago. This is a breath of fresh air in my opinion.
Couple of questions for you...
You state that you are rather low level... What level are you? And you atate that you have played for about 15 hours, but seem to be able to level every hour or so. So 15 hours of leveling should put you around somewhere in the 3rd level. At that rate, how long do you thing it would take you to get to level 10? A couple of months... Then ehat do you do? See what I am getting at?
One last question... What game are you MMO are you playing now?
boy, you never played shadowbane before, don't you?
DDO s u x, fact
This thread is yet another example of the people who give DDO a thumbs up doing a better job of explaining why they like the game than the other camp explaining why they hate the game. We have one guy with several paragraphs of his experiences and why he likes them versus this other guy with nothing more to say than...
If the people who hate the game can't even explain it, I don't see how undecided people can be convinced to also hate the game.
If the people who hate the game can't even explain it, I don't see how undecided people can be convinced to also hate the game.
well put falcon. I to am a refugee from SWG and I've been anticipating this game for a while. People should try and keep in mind they need to weigh the validity of some posts by the content therein.
I will tell you why I hate this game...
I too have been waiting for this game for a long time. I have been playing the PnP version since in first came out in a small box. I played the second stress test and I am on my 10 day beta for pre-ordering it.
The game is Instanced and I hate it. Some instancing is necessary yes. But not the total game, even the streets are instanced. I want to be able to run into more than just a few people when I play. If I wanted to just play DnD with a small group, I would play in my local F2F group. The game is way to focused on groups. And with the new patch it is even more so. You can't even do the starter quests with some classes. Unless you want to die all the time. I would like a little solo play. Even if it were to take a little longer to level would be OK.
I must be on the wrong server. I do not really call dancing on the bar mature, because every tavern I go into there is usually someone doing just that. Groups are fairly easy to get, Yes... But not always good. And since you only get exp when you finish a quest... That can be a big probllem. For instance, you are doing a long quest with a pretty good group, and 3/4 of the way through it, half of you group decide they need to log off. And the rest of your group decide that they don't want to go on with because the group is too small. So now what? You all recall and you have wasted all of that time. You get no exp for it and you have to run through the whole dungeon again. But on the good side, you know where almost everything is since the dungeon is static.
How in the world can you say the central world is any where close to large? You have to do quests to get into sections of it. So the first part is very small and so is the second part. Heck, most small towns in WoW are larger then the second section of this game. I love exploring the area around where I am questing. Never know what or who you might find.
Yes, the quests are not the best. They could use a lot of work. The idea of traps and puzzles is good. But let's not make them static. The same trap in the same place every time. And since you have to do the quests over and over, what's the point? You already know where almost everything is? And I hate the idea of only being able to rest where they want you to. Where did that come from? Certainly not the PnP game.
And where would you put a castle? the whole town is basically full now. And since there is nothing outside the town...
What I have to agree with you about is that the PnP game is not about PvP. And I am glad there is none of it in DDO. I Hate PvP. What I worry about is that they may put it in later on.
And what are they going to do when the power levelers get to level 10 and start complaining about nothing to do...
They need to put in a lot more, and varied quests in this game.
If the people who hate the game can't even explain it, I don't see how undecided people can be convinced to also hate the game.
You guys are ignoring the hundreds of posts explaing the lack of content, dry boring quests, instancing everything, no exp for anything cept quests, repeating quests only way to level up, no where to explore, no home to build, NOT a D&D game and yet barely a MMO without the parts most people enjoy about mmos....
Happy? I just summed up why I don't like it. I've explained why I dislike the game here and on the beta feedback forums and just like you the devs there ignored the hundreds of other people posting similar threads and that is why this game will flop.
NWN did a far far better job at capture the soul of D&D than any "online" game to date. This attempt is souless.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
If the people who hate the game can't even explain it, I don't see how undecided people can be convinced to also hate the game.
You guys are ignoring the hundreds of posts explaing the lack of content, dry boring quests, instancing everything, no exp for anything cept quests, repeating quests only way to level up, no where to explore, no home to build, NOT a D&D game and yet barely a MMO without the parts most people enjoy about mmos....
Happy? I just summed up why I don't like it. I've explained why I dislike the game here and on the beta feedback forums and just like you the devs there ignored the hundreds of other people posting similar threads and that is why this game will flop.
NWN did a far far better job at capture the soul of D&D than any "online" game to date. This attempt is souless.
What makes you think that you are not ignoring all of the posts supporting the game?
Maybe the dev's arent ignoring those "hundreds of other people" posting negative posts and are instead taking into account the hundreds of posts that are saying "these are the good things, keep it this way".
Im not in support or against DDO yet, since by the time I saw I got into the second stress test I could only play for about an hour. I'm just trying to show that while you say the negative posts are being ignored, maybe those posting negative things are ignoring all of the positive posts?
It works both ways.
So what are we actually getting from these threads besides "I love this game" and "This game sux".
Well, look at the things people are saying. Some people say they like the fact that the game is instanced, some people say they hate the instancing. Welcome to life.
Some people will like the game the way it is, some won't. If you don't like it, don't play it, it's as simple as that. It astounds me how much time and effort someone will dedicate to something they don't even like. People here will post 30 replies in a topic about the game, repeating what they've said over and over in what I can only guess is an attempt to convince other people not to play it.
Okay lets get back on topic. First of all, I'd like to say that I tested the game, and I enjoyed the game. I will probably not be playing after launch until I know more about it (I've got other games I like better).
I'll try to say this next stuff as nicely as possible. If you hate the game, that's fine, but if you want to look like you know what you're talking about, give us reasons why. Also, you must understand that if you wish the game had feature X, other people might enjoy the game because it doesn't have that feature. There are other games out there that likely do have that feature. If you don't like the features in a game, play something else. Feel free to make your suggestions to the developers, but remember that they are the ones getting paid to make the game, they are following a specific vision they have for the game, and are trying to accomplish their goals. They may have already decided not to go with the feature you want. All you can really do beyond that is take your $15/month elsewhere. If enough people feel like you, then it will get signifigant, otherwise I'm afraid you're just 1 in the crowd, and the devs have likely made up their minds already.
There is no game that will please everyone, it's just impossible.
I'm off track again, okay DDO. I find that the instancing, while it's almost everywhere in the game, can work. It worked for Guild Wars, which is doing very successfully. I find that more people enjoy the instancing compared to the people who hate it. That is largely because without instancing, you get people fighting for the same mobs, fighting over objectives, crowding in popular places, opportunities for griefing, and so on. I feel another reason for the instancing is to try and give you the feeling of being in a group with just a few people, that you have to work together as a team to accomplish your goals, much in the way you have to do in the PnP game. I've never seen a D&D game with more than 10 or so adventurers at one time, and I think most people feel that is alot. That is why the groups are usually 6, though there is a system for doing Raids in DDO.
I've played the game and I enjoyed it. I felt the same sort of fun that I do when I play D&D with my group, and I feel that if you enjoy the PnP game, you will enjoy DDO. If you enjoyed the non-online RPGs like Neverwinter Nights, or Baldur's Gate, I believe you will enjoy DDO as well.
DDO, in my opinion, is more like the RPG than the MMO. If you're looking for a game that's more like WoW or whatever, you probably won't like the game as much. They're trying to evoke the spirit of playing the RPG, not layer on D&D settings to other MMO styles.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
First off to the OP- I am glad you like it. I felt the same way...at first.
Been in since the Alpha. I have reported bugs galore for them to fix, offered feedback on their questing, combat,etc and tried to remain objective in how they decided to present the game.
I think most of the game just needs some tweaking. The grouping system is a LOT better than it used to be.
This is a group centric game, sadly if you can't be social this isn't the game for you.
Currently I have boiled down all my objections to one sentance uttered by Ken Troop and its impact on the state of the game.
For those of you lacking the fortitude to read the entire thing, it boils down to Ken saying his vision (what he loves) is running the same dungeon over and over. And mastering it.
Mastering a dungeon?
This guy is so NOT a DnD geek.
My issues is that I like mastering my CHARACTER.
He will have you run the same mission on EASY/MEDIUM/HARD. The traps are in the same place. The mobs are in the same place. Everything is in the same place. The mobs have more HP and the treasure drops are better.
Can you say DIABLO?
This one issue is IMHO going to make this game get a big initial response and then people will leave.
It is boring to grind the same dungeon (which you need to do to level enough to go get the other content dungeons/quests)
The game that promised no grinding? Comes with a lot of it.
That makes me sad as a big fan of the franchise. To have so little actually given with the game (no crafting, housing, world exploring, etc) I had hope for much more than this.
I understand that many people don't like instancing, but some arguments I don't understand. I don't see how anyone can say that the quests are boring. These quests show lots of creativity. The traps are more interesting than any other mmorpg I've played, the puzzles are engaging, and the combat is interactive. I also don't see how getting experience only from quests is bad. They are actually addressing some of the biggest gripes against mmorpgs in general. For years people have complained about grinding on monsters and quests that involve killing 10 of x monster. Turbine actually makes a game that doesn't have these issues, and this is how they are thanked? You can say that they replaced monster grinding with quest grinding, but it's still an improvement. Quests have more than one path to victory, and different classes in your group often mean that you have to approach the same problems in a different manner.
I almost forgot, people have also complained about the lack of fantasy mmorpgs with twitch gameplay. DDO addresses yet another common complaint against mmorpgs. Respect the game for trying to give the community what it wants.
The more I read about DDO and the new changes the more I'm excited about playing it, it seems that beta was just a fraction of the content. Sounds like this game will be a great challenge. Maybe people are so negative towards it because it "only has 10 levels" and can't get their head round that levelling isn't the sole reason to play. I remember reading a post about someone explaining World of Warcraft and that the game is to get to level 60. I just thought "Is that really what people think?" . Rather then jump straight in and buy DDO on release I'm going to wait a couple of months to see if the content they promise is actually delivered since I doubt they will delay release.
It's not that I don't like instancing... I do like it. What I don't like is everything in DDO is instanced. As I have said before even the streets are instanced. I don't see a lot of difference in grinding mobs or grinding quests. They have already stated you will need to do the same quest over 2 or three times. And since every quest in static, ie. every thing is in the same place everytime.
I almost forgot... Yes Guild Wars is doing very well. But as a lot of people are trying to say,,, DDO is not Guild Wars. And if you want to compare it... A big reason why Guild Wars is doing so well, IMO, is after paying your $50 for it is is free. After paying $50 for DDO, you then have to pay $15 a month to play.
Their system may not be a giant leap forward, but it's definitely a step in the right direction compared to games where you simply kill the same monster over and over.
At least the quests have multiple difficulties, and many have multiple way to complete. Pretty good attempt if you ask me.
Their system may not be a giant leap forward, but it's definitely a step in the right direction compared to games where you simply kill the same monster over and over.
At least the quests have multiple difficulties, and many have multiple way to complete. Pretty good attempt if you ask me.
I will have to grudgingly agree with these statements. If I had my choice between grinding on a single mob or group of mobs over and over, or doing a quest over and over, I'd choose the quest route.
I've voiced my share of complaints about this game and what I disagree with having played it, but the more I play the more it kind of grows on me. I have to realize that's its a different type of game than what I'm used to out of an MMO, and it's never going to rival the PnP experience (that part I never expected in the first place).
I think what a lot of people need to do (including myself) is to stop judging MMOs so harshly on what they will have at launch. Some people talk as if what the game will be at launch is all that it will ever be. All MMOs must have a starting point. I'm willing to see where DDO is headed after launch before I pass a final damning judgement on it.
A small side note here concerning the Mature players...
Just some of the names I can remember off-hand... To show the maturity of the players...
Tastydude, Skybreaker, Deathwish, Bluezman, Beef, Beatdown, Aaarrrggg, Huggybear, Widehole.
Just a few of the name I remember seeing. Real mature naming there...
Wow! I'm really liking the response to my new thread. Some really intelligent comments in there and not just flaming or empty praise.
To answer a question from earlier. After 15 hours I was 2.4, a rank away from level 3. But don't be fooled. Just like in PNP D&D the higher the level, the more experience you need to go up. You only need 2000 per level at 1, then its 4000 at 2 and now that I'm 3, it 6000. I'm not entirely sure about this but it's what I remember as I'm not logged into the game now. I can imagine that number being somewhere in the 20 000 range as you get to the 6 or 7 area and can you imaging going from 9 to 10? I haven't played the PNP D&D but I would think you definitely would be talking 50-75 000 per rank. I think with 20 hours a week of play it would still take me a good 4-6 months to get to level. I think by then they will likely have an expansion out for higher level players.
I also don't understand this whole discussion about doing the same quests over and over. I have repeated only 3 of the maybe 20 quests I've done and that was because the group wanted to. There are random quests and then a very strong linear quest line you can follow that has missions that open the areas and tell a story. I like that. I like that you have to open up the areas one at a time because it gives me something to go for. And this place is definitely massive.
I was an SWG player for 2 years and this area is equally as big as most of the SWG cities put together (central areas I mean) once you've opened the entire thing.
From my experience, I believe you don't have a true scope of how much contents there really are yet...
This is my honest experience... The game felt really bland, but I continued testing for about a week, making new characters and such... THen I read about Tersec Moor and rumour that devs have only released 1/3 of the contents... So I started to enjoy the game at around level 2-3 and maybe up to level 4, thinking they had all these stuff coming... Then a dev post confirmed that everything was out... When you get to levels 5-6, you'll start to see tons of repeats, because apparently there's alot more quests for levels 1 and 2 than the other levels...And this is when I get really bored...
As far as content goes, this is one of those 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' areas. Turbine has quite a bit of content ready or nearly ready to be added to the game, but they've decided to hold off on doing that until post-launch so they can focus on polishing up what is already there.
My complaints about the game aside, what they have in the game right now does have a very nice polish to it, and in no way feels slapped together. Turbine has stated that AFTER launch, their number one priority will be to focus on releasing the content they have waiting in the wings.
Rest assured that if they would have chosen the other route (putting all the content they have in the game), people would be whining about how broken and unplayable the game is, and how Turbine is doing nothing about the bugs, etc.
Like I said, they're screwed either way.
I will grant you most of your post...
What I dispute is the randomness. If we ever repeated a quest in our PnP game, the end game was the same, basically. But everything inbetween was different. And that was because we had a very good DM who always made sure things were different. Just because it was down on paper in the module that this was the way it goes, doesn't mean your DM has to follow it exactly. In DDO you do. The only thing different id the mobs have more HP and you might get better loot. Which in another reason why this is not like the PnP version. Not that DDO is bad... Just don't compare it to the PnP game.
And as I have stated many times... I have already pre-ordered it and will play it on release. I will give it a fair try and see what happens. I just wanted more from it.
Ha ha! Well said. This game isn't for the 1337 d00ds.
Perhaps I am wrong.
Perhaps Mr Troops comment was erroneous.
I do not think it was. HE wants to make a game where you repeat the same quests. With only 150 quests or so to be available at launch it strikes me as a bit lacking in content.
As an aside to the prev poster who was 2.4 after 15 hours.. you do start to have to repeat content a lot after level 3. With that and the need to have a group to do anything you end up hitting a wall of frustration that has sent many of us, myself included, back to our boring old games in disappointment.
I did the 10 day Beta. I can see that everyones comments have good points.
Some possible solutions for devs to think about:
The instancing in towns and Inns could be eliminated. Make more whole city instances if crowding is the problem. At least make the zoning to another part of town part of a quest like the early city gate. (go to the guard, earn his favor by doing a few missions or try "the low road" and quest through the sewers). If you want to go back to the already visited part of town, it is more palatable to zone through a gate than zone to a tavern or city shop from a role playing perspective.
The missions quest exp is fine, but imagine what happens when you get 99% of the long mission done and the server goes down for updates, or a power interruption occurs. You can see why players may get peeved for devoting a few hours and come away with no experience advancement. At least give a portion of the mission experience for hard work. Others may argue that you get some experfience for completing optional missions within the instance, but the experience awarded is paltry compared to completing the dungeon.
I would also like to see randomness in dungeons as well. I am all for helping someone do a dungeon I have completed, but at least let me truly "master" a dungeon by using my memory for general tactics instead of memorizing the location of traps and chests. "Ok, I remember that this Bugbear shaman guy is tough because he can put everyone to sleep, but I was able to take him down by using these crates.. oh dear, where did the crates go?"
Whats everyones thoughts about the game economy? I had 122 plat at lvl 2. The only money sinks I saw were some spell components, some potions, some food/drink at the bar and occasional armor repair.
Cheers
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