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Role Players potentially kicked to the curb, again.

YaevinduskYaevindusk Member RarePosts: 2,094

This writing is mainly for RPers and has citations to articles and notes that were written in reference towards.  It may be a long read, so if you don't care about RPing then it may just waste your time reading it.

 

There is a definite trend in games these days whereby developers promise the stars to gamers and under deliver.  They want hype, support and fanboyism to spread the word of their game.  Even those who hate bring word of it's existence, and could be a positive influence in many circumstances due to gamers being willing to pay anything so long as they get access or feel special in some way (as well as white knights coming to the rescue).  Role players in particular are subject to these promises, with developers wanting their long-term loyalty and known habits to pay out the posterior for outfits or establish long-term communities that are typically quite pleasant (even if someone's not a RPer, how many of you have rolled on RP servers just because there are less horrendous names about and typically nicer people as a whole?).  Indeed, and in recent months FFXIV -- A game that I widely supported -- kicked role players to the curb with nearly a year of saying there would be a specific RP server, but as the months and weeks past, no word came and no follow through was met.  Players were forced to fight with each other for weeks prior to official launch on the server it (the unofficial RP server) would be, leading up to five servers being selected (and thus the community split; I wrote a lot of articles about my disdain on this prior to their launch).   Though to be fair, the saving factor for them is that they made a lot of RP options within the game like sitting in chairs, laying in beds, have multiple RP systems in place and are continuously adding things through patched that RPers are asking for, such as brand new emotes, transmogrification, hairstylists and special outfits.  Not to mention the continuation of storyline elements and quests with each patch, and not just adding raids.

 

Enter Elder Scrolls Online.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/20cm1h/eso_dumped_extra_server_options_like_rp/

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=33999

 

Many had worries of even trying ESO due to the Mega-server service, but were reassured by fans and developers alike that there were plans to implement a checkbox whereby one could state they're a RPer and would like to see others in the world with the same interests.  Well, it seems this was axed for a time and will not make it into launch.  Knowing patterns of companies and witnessing these trends repeatedly, there's a very, very high chance this option will never be introduced.  This is mainly because the RP community would already be destroyed or regulated to guilds that suffer through taunt and torment when RPing openly; many would likely RP in guild chat (might as well just get a chat room, as people in another zone will now be flooded) or private party / talking system.  Not to mention that an immersion factor exists with Random RPing that will not occur in the atmosphere they will be sent to (in addition to people not wanting to join guilds for that ronin factor).

 

Once they quelled the fears of RPers not being grouped, people set their attentions to two pet peeves of the RPing community.  The most president being the inability to sit in chairs.  I wrote a post on such many moons ago, and would like to reference it as opposed to go into superfluous details.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6199501#6199501

 

"Anyone able to confirm if sitting in chairs is in yet, or if they changed their minds in making it possible?

That's the biggest deciding factor if I decide to RP in a game: it tells me if they truly care about the details required in immersion or if they're just trying to entice a crowd with sugar and sweet words (as this happens far too often, for those of you who don't follow the RP community the promises each game tends to make just to get their money).  Those who are not RPers might not understand the notion of using this as a factor, though as a whole I would think the Elder Scrolls fans would come to appreciate immersion.  Sitting in chairs was in the last couple games; I remember entering a tavern, getting into a bar fight, chopping a guy's head off... then sitting on the table and order a drink as the maid ran away screaming.  Then I bought an ale from the tavern keeper and said aloud:  "Sorry about the mess" while pretending to flip a coin on the counter while I got out and RP walked away like a badass.

I play games for the first free month to try them out, but it's the immersion factor and RP community / tools they provide that keep me there.  Especially if there's no raids or I've already completed the raid for that patch.

My days of having my RP guild or friends having a drink in a tavern, being forced to make emotes that they're sitting down in a chair, at a table... while everyone is very clearly standing next to it due to poor immersion factors are over.  It's 2014 and immersion is a real thing, especially with improved technology and realism.  Nothing more immersion breaking than that when it comes to what the game developers actually have control of."

 

The other was the ability to see chat boxes.  Imagine a setting with 20 plus people, there is a lot to an environment that could be used by a role player through emotes.  One person speaks, yet you only see them in a chat box.  Instead of instantly responding and adding environment effects to where you saw their text in the sea of people, you spend several minutes looking for them (While others are typing), and if you are taking turns or in a fight, this could make a simple encounter last 10 hours.  Not to mention that seeing words come from a character and not having to look down to a chat box (and away from the environment) is immersion breaking, even more so than seeing a chat box pop up.  At least imagination could be used in knowing, hey... this person is speaking because words are coming out.  There is no voice, and text will always have to be read (hearing voices would be unnerving if it doesn't match the character, anyway), so this is the best in class compromise in maintaining that RP effect and immersion.

 

The second bit really isn't as important as sitting in chairs in terms of immersion breaking, but it is still very important to many expert Role Players who may RP with dozens of people at any give time.   Heck, I remember the days of Ultima Online when there was no chat box and everything appeared at the top of character's heads.  No real UI to speak of besides that.  Even emotes that appear in chat and words they say above the heads are good enough, as you see the character speaking, even if you have to read the emote elsewhere. 

 

Enter GuildWars 2:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-megaserver-system/?utm_source=client

There are now rumors of there being a similar Mega-server technology (well, not rumors as it's on their login page).  Which means it no longer matters what server you are on or the community you have.  GW 2 is already guilty of promising the moon to people -- and RPers -- and delivery very little.  It is a quality game, to be sure.  Well worth the price of entry.  But they had promised things like Guild House and Player housing.  They have no sitting to speak of.  One grace is that they do, in fact have chat bubbles.  Though the prospect of a Megaserver is frightening to the community of The Forgotten Coast.  Yes, they are claiming that it will try and match you up with people of your server more often, but the people of the Forgotten Coast know it's a RP server.  I've not seen a troll in a very long time, and even non-RPers just hang around and read RP from time to time without intervening or making snide comments.  This is very much a case of wait and see, to be sure... Yet the past does not inspire confidence when it comes to the RP community as a whole.

 

 

So what games DO support RPing to a reasonable degree?

Giving credit where credit is due (and to provide example instead of just pointing a finger and not following up), the only games that seem to really appreciate RPers at the moment is WoW (having no marks against them from above and even having dev team members and GMs Role Play on RP servers), FF XIV (minus the server fiasco), and Wildstar (taken only from beta testing).  Possibly Everquest Next, Archeage and Black Desert, but it's too early to tell (there may be others as well, but the pool is small).

 

Now, this isn't a "I hate these games and love those", thread whereby I should just play the ones I mention have something good about the topic at hand, but rather a constructed writing that speaks of cited articles and information.  It's intent is to speak to others who value RP or immersion in the hopes that these games truly will incorporate them, or that development companies realize that immersion is a real thing in games, especially in 2014.  Simple things like sitting in chairs are ignored way too often, and it's getting to the point where too many promises are made, people are getting fed up, and Immersion / Rping is being phased out completely despite companies still wanting that group of people's money.  With Early Access essentially complete and launch at 7PM EPT ( http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/409348/Servers-Coming-Down.html ), I feel that now is the time to display concern -- not yelling, mind you -- but concern for the future when it comes to RP with this game and many others.  If these things aren't asked -- and with citations from where the information is coming from -- then we've only ourselves to blame when things are taken.  It's dependent on how it's brought up that essentially dictates whether it's a whine or slam on a game (many of which were mention, and not just one) or a serious complaint / concern in the hopes things will make a turn for the better (despite low hope of such from past experience).

 

In closing:

Hopefully this serves as a PSA to RPers out there, and to those who don't RP and don't care about such things either way, hope you enjoy your game if you like it!  In addition, if there is information that will help alleviate concerns about the above games -- or if you have information about games that doe adequately support RP and the immersion thereof -- then please feel free to post it!  Nothing that is factual (and not just a "troll response") and cited will be seen as an attack, despite such a thing being common place whenever someone brings new information or disagrees as a whole.  I'd be interested in my fears being quelled if someone truly has something to say that is in regards to such!

 

If there is any point in this post that seems like an outright attack on a game or something, then please notify me and I will see about articulating it differently.  Most of what was written should be in response to something I cited, so hopefully this is not the case.  It may seem to be a grievance sent to a specific game's forum, but the lion share of writing was for that game, and it's ultimate intent is to inform other RPers (as dictated at start and towards the end) of potential things that may be issues for them while also giving examples of trends within the industry that are doing the same things (so as not to single any one game out).

 

Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing).  German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century.  Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now).  I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things).  In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while.  If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.

Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this.  If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own.  Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis.  Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.

Comments

  • KnotwoodKnotwood Member CommonPosts: 1,103

    The kind of RPG your looking for I think is best done on table tops with friends in real life.   Just as you lose some things going from single player RPG to MMORPG, you also lose abilities to go from Table top RPG to MMORPG.

     

    I don't think its unreasonable to ask Zenimax to add RPG features you want, Age of Conan did it for their Table Top RPG'rs.   I say hit their forums and gather some like minded RPG'ers of your type and see what Zenimax can do to help you.  I think they'll listen to you guys when there is more then just one person, but as a group of like minded people who ask for things.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    I thought RPing got kicked to the curb when they started to make graphical mmos.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    I thought RPing got kicked to the curb when they started to make graphical mmos.

    There would still be a place for "in character" chat in MMOs if most people that do it wouldn't totally suck at it.

     

    It's acting and that's all it is. But not everyone who thinks they can do it, actually can... that's why there are a lot of shitty amateur acting groops out there and banal slow-walking in mmos.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Member RarePosts: 2,094

     

    Some good replies -- thank you very much for that.

     

    I will likely actually make a post, a suggestion email and talk to a friend of mine that actually works for Zenimax.  The latter will likely not do anything as it isn't his department, but possibly get some insight off the record.  Though first I wanted to make a post here and get some ideas from others so that such a thing would be even stronger with thoughts of others mixed in.  It may not come to pass, however, if I simply get too disheartened.  It's bound to be said by someone, but there are other games out there that have the things I'm -- as an RPer -- am searching for.  There must be a time when one realizes it's time to stop as their calls might just be construed as whines after a time, and the responsible thing would be to just back off.

    Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing).  German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century.  Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now).  I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things).  In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while.  If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.

    Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this.  If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own.  Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis.  Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
  • NyghthowlerNyghthowler Member UncommonPosts: 392

    Suggestion :

    Start your own Pure RP guild

    Look for a guild the is devoted to RP

    RP to others even if they don't RP back to you

     

    If you're that devoted to RP'ing then find a way to make it work for you... 

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Member RarePosts: 2,094
    Originally posted by Nyghthowler

    Suggestion :

    Start your own Pure RP guild

    Look for a guild the is devoted to RP

    RP to others even if they don't RP back to you

     

    If you're that devoted to RP'ing then find a way to make it work for you... 

     

    Well, both I and others in the reddit post have touched up on this.  But the one truth is that RPers are resilient; they try and make things work.  But over time more and more things are being taken away.  With this, much immersion when it comes to certain things.  The main point I am trying to make by citing several different games was this.  Why must RPers always have to make these sacrifices when they should be baseline in 2014 for those who enjoy immersion or RPing?  Why does the single player Elder Scrolls game have something like sitting and the online version does not?

     

    If RPers weren't always promised the moon, and given a pile of stinky cheese with people saying it came from the moon... well, I'd be less upset.  But they're just being used as a whole because they are long-term customers that make a great community and stay for that community, and their friends (even making their own enjoyment inbetween patches).  It will just keep on getting worse until a stand is made somewhere, I believe.  Especially as technology is developed that completely forgets about communities as a whole (and not just RP communities).  The better you treat a community that is likely to purchase cosmetic items and horses, the more will stay and pay a fee and buy them.  Let's face it, Rpers are cash cows.  Most can't control themselves and they're pretty much guaranteed revenue so long as you treat them right.  This is why they even bother making promises to get them hooked in the first place.  Even as people leave, they'll be logged on up to the last moment servers are open.

     

    Edit:  Truth be told, I had a RP guild that was going to ESO.  It was one that I've been apart of for about 10 years now.  Though they all decided to skip the title after trying beta, save for about two of them.  But they're already max level (used the rings of Mara and AoE'd mobs) and asking what our plans are now in terms of potentially going to another game.

    Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing).  German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century.  Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now).  I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things).  In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while.  If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.

    Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this.  If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own.  Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis.  Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
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