You know, this is why we keep getting buggy arsed fucked up games launching with half arsed content and increasingly abusive company policies shoved down our throats.
Way too many gamers will excuse literally anything.
Company takes money it's not entitled to without warning? Obviously the consumer's fault...
If I didn't know better I'd think half the posts in this thread satire.
Sadly, I know better.
Hey, but unless you're EA or Blizz (and, frankly, probably even if you are), you can show up at people's houses, bugger their dog, and you'll have armies of fans defending your actions as obviously being your dog's fault.
Originally posted by Joejc7135 Ok I understand now, so it was a bug in thier system. On the topic of people who got overdraft fees...Zenimax is not going to cover that, however when you are refunded the sub fee, the bank will remove the overdraft im pretty sure I had to go through this once. It's usually a good idea to keep at least 50 dollars in your account at all times, otherwise you probably shouldn't be charging things on it.
and for the full fee, not 1.00 or 0.01 but $15 which usually takes a week to drop off
Pritty much this.
You need to have 13€ or 15$ avalible on account that will be used for subscription. Zenimax then amkes a 15$ transactions and makes a chargeback after that.
Problem is, the transaction has been made and for it to be refunded cant take from 2-30 days, depending on bank and many other influences ( chargeback is a complicated matter behind the scene, where customers cant see whats going on ). In that time your 15$ are locked away. The bank will refund you, but only when all clearing and setlement and fraud prevention steps have been made and that ussualy takes days. In the mean time you can not use that money.
Normaly they MMo companies do that with 0.1 - 1$ transactions. Zenimax went full retard on this.
Normally, authorization checks won't hit your account at all as long as they're coming from a credit network (e.g. Debit/Credit card). If they do hit your account, demand a refund from the bank and then get a better bank. Or even better, use a credit union.
The only time an authorization check should actually hit your account is if it's coming in as an ACH/INC transaction, which skips the pending stage for the most part. You can tell which of the two methods is being used by the information you provide. If they ask for a credit/debit card number, the charge will go through a pending process for a few days and then disappear. If they ask for a check and/or routing number, they're using ACH/INC and all transactions will occur directly on your account.
As someone who does this for a living, I can tell you that it's better to avoid ACH deductions wherever possible. If they give you the option of using a credit card number, you should always do that instead (and be explicit that it should not be processed as a debit).
Originally posted by Tygranir The problem is last night, Zenimax charged many people for a sub prior to their included 30 days.
Yes but that problem is fixed and those people are being credited back.
Indeed, but Zenimax is not compensating those who where hit with Overdraft Charges for the unexpected Withdrawal. It was an accident, but it is more impacting than some people are realizing.
Nor should they. That is an issue of personal finance problems not Zenimax.
I'm not one to hate on fanboyism very much but this is just ridiculous. It's not a personal finance problem to get an overdraft because you got charged when you werent supposed to.
"I'll have 15 dollars in my account thirty days from now when I get my first charge, but I don't today"
Gets charged today, gets overdraft fee.
"Well it's your fault that we billed you when you werent supposed to be billed, handle your finances better"
WHAT??!?!!!!
To add: Get rid of your overdrafting crap. It's a scam. Most of the time your transactions will still go through, and many banks don't charge anything for going negative. I know at U.S. Bank they don't charge you anything for going negative unless you have "Overdraft Protection".
Overdraft Protection is basically: We can charge you for going negative
vs
We won't charge you for going negative.
If you think banks wont charge you for using their money... that is actually how banks make a profit.
He is right though, not all banks charge you overdrafts anymore. Wells Fargo used to charge you 35 bucks per charge into the negative...and 35 bucks for every 3 days you didn't get out of the negative. Now they don't charge you anything all. Why? The federal government passed some legislation that said they couldn't. I don't actually agree with that but it's what happened.
If you're gonna talk, at least know what you're talking about. Wells Fargo still charges overdraft($35). And they charge($5) you every month you're below minimum balance(which this charge can incur another overdraft fee). The only difference between now and the past is you now have an option to opt out of overdraft 'protection'.
Okay....My bank is wells fargo...I was overdrawn TWICE....didn't get charged a dime...waited a week to pay it back...no fees. Don't tell me I don't know what im talking about, I know what happened. I found it odd considering the prices you named used to get charged to me in the past. Are you gonna try and say im lucky or the bank system is broken? How do you explain this? Perhaps it differs by state?
And to the guy saying Im gonna let corporations and the govt walk all over me. What have you done to "fight the power". Except critque others from the safety of the internet..You go ahead and get mad if it makes you feel like you are more then the meaningless peon you are...me? I can recognize it for what it is and deal with it. Enjoy your mad kid attitude loser.
I said it once, i'll say it again with proof this time, if you're gonna talk, at least know WHAT you're talking about.
Rift for example at launch required a credit card BUT it just validated the card without withdrawing any funds (yes you can validate CC without fund transfer).
They only charged the account after the 30 days were up.
The whole point of fund withdrawal upon registration is NOT a common practice. The fact that they were doing full amounts is just messed up.
I have to agree somewhere someone dropped the ball when more and more games are becoming F2P for this kind of charge to be happening before the free time is up is very unusual.
Originally posted by wandericaZenimax is under no obligation to refund you the overdraft bill. However, the bank will see the credit, and since it was an "unauthorized charge," will refund the overdraft fee. I know it must gall, but seriously, think about this for a moment. Zenimax is not going to give you a $35 overdraft fee + 15$ sub refund to cover the bank's charge.
It get s complicated because under most EU countries law they would be liable
For the simple reason when you take out the sub it says £0.00 will be taken and does not warn you the amount of the pre-authorisation. So someone could think they would have zero authorised and about £41 taken out in 30 days, hence sign up for a 6 month sub, and that caused them to get charges as £41 of funds temporarily became unavailable or took them over their limit etc
And many EU banks do not act kindly at all, in the UK they are obliged by law to let everyone have a basic account, even those they wish weren't customers, they often can be very very very reluctant to refund charges especially if it was caused by a 3rd party error as they will tell you to claim from them.
Don't forget this game launched globally and as such, Zenimax has to take account of the laws in the countries it chooses to sell the game to,
And while Zenimax is a US ocompany I believe they have EU offices
Originally posted by XsorusI'm sorry, if you're getting overdrafted on $15.....That's your damn problem.. and its a very serious life problem.At no point should you ever let a bank account fall below $100...If you do.. you're clearly haven't mastered basic skills in life.
Sorry that is pure ignorance and arrogance.
There are people in the UK resorting to food banks to feed themselves.
There's hard working people with two jobs on min wage trying to feed their families who would love to have a £100 balance to fall back on. But back in the real world, many many don't,.
And those in the UK fall into insignificance when you look at the amount of families in the US living in poverty, tents, cars etc
You might be lucky enough to live like that, I might be lucky enough to live like that, but believe it or not, the vast majority of the human race isn't, and to judge such people well sometimes peoples attitudes fail me. Someone works hard supporting their family, saves up and gets a game, is not informed anywhere that money will be taken out of their account now, so subs budgeting for the money being there at the end of the month and your saying it's their fault if they get charges????
I love TESO but they are really pissing a lot of players off over their sub.
The main thread on their forum is now up to 31,500 views and getting bigger every minute.
They seem to be digging themselves into a bigger and bigger hole over it.
They made one comment in that huge thread since it started, that was yesterday and they said
[Update] We want everyone who purchased ESO to have immediate access to the included 30 days of ESO game time. In the event that you enter your payment information for authorization and the transaction cancels due to lack of funds in your account, please contact our Support Team. We'll work with you to ensure you have access to your included 30 days of game time.
Please ensure that you have attempted to enter payment information and had the transaction fail due to lack of funds before submitting a help request. We will get you into the game and playing as soon as possible.
We require you to choose a subscription option and enter valid payment information. For credit cards, debit cards and PayPal there is no charge made until after your included 30 days of game time has expired. For these payment methods, there is an authorization check performed to ensure the payment method is valid. You may see a temporary account authorization hold put on funds in your account while the verification completes. Usually this authorization hold lasts a short period of time before being removed. It can vary from bank to bank.
If you prefer to use one of the following payment methods, payment is processed at the time of selecting your preferred subscription plan.
Game Time Cards [via Retailer] GiroPay iDeal Paysafe Card WebMoney
Someone made the following comment
You want to people with limited funds to put their accounts into overdraft status to prove to you that they don't have the money to validate their cards? Basically go into over draft to obtain what they have already paid ZoS for? I'm not entirely sure I see the logic in that decision.
Again I have more than enough to pay my sub and a couple hundred others. Its the principle of it that makes me refuse to give ZoS anymore of my money.
I and many others pointed out that they are saying that if you intend to pay with a gamer card, you have to purchase another 30 days before you can get the initial 30 days that was supposed to be included.
So far no further response.
But someone did post an email they received from them today about it
]Thank you for contacting The Elder Scrolls Online Team.
You can either use a credit card OR you can get a pre-paid visa/mastercard from a local retail store. These prepaid cards work just as well and can be used without issue. You will not lose your characters or your free subscription time.
The actuall free subscription wont kick in until you purchase one of the subscription options. Think of it as a buy one get one free.
You wont actually get charged for the one month until may. It may show up as a charge from your bank, but it is actually only a pending charge.
Thank you for your continued interest and support!
Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team
And yet someone else has also pointed out the following
I have seen several other articles out there, reporting what's happening. What they do not tell is the fact that once you create a subscription plan, your 30 days become 29 immediately, so that, even if you cancel it, you still violate the ToS where they say you must notify them at least 30 days in advance (and they have the right to charge you).
I have to be honest, this might sound like madness, but I haven't really felt like playing today even though I love this game, I am so sick to death of companies treating us like that that part of me feels like simply trying to get a refund.
Would it make any difference though, would they care, would it be just me not getting to play a game the devs have put a lot of hard work in? Me sticking up for a principle that they laugh at?
Personally I have no probs subbing and them authorising the full amount from a financial point of view, but when instead of apologising, they simply effectively say that's the way it's meant to work, well it makes me angry
And as for the few people sticking up for them?????
If you sign up for 6 months it tells you it is taking £0.00 out of your account but in reality authorises about £41 Sure you get it back, some within the hour, some still not after 24, but that's not the point, they should make this sort of thing clear.
And as for not getting access to the 30 days I have already paid for until I do take out a sub,
Their head of marketing Peter Hines said before release
“If you don’t like the game, of course you’re not subscribing to it,” says Hines. “You get the game, you get your first month without having to pay for a subscription to see ‘is this thing a thing I like’? If your approach that you want to take is that, for example, you love Skyrim, you played it for 125 hours, but after three or four weeks you were done, then you can do the exact same thing in Elder Scrolls Online.”
“You can buy it, play the hell out of it for four weeks and go ‘Eh! I’m done. I did everything I wanted to do, I did a bunch of single-player stuff, I did a bunch of PVP, and now I’m out.’ Then you’re out. The subscription is irrelevant. The initial purchase is exactly the same as any other PC game because you don’t have to pay for the subscription until your 30 days is up.”
Originally posted by wandericaZenimax is under no obligation to refund you the overdraft bill. However, the bank will see the credit, and since it was an "unauthorized charge," will refund the overdraft fee. I know it must gall, but seriously, think about this for a moment. Zenimax is not going to give you a $35 overdraft fee + 15$ sub refund to cover the bank's charge.
It get s complicated because under most EU countries law they would be liable
For the simple reason when you take out the sub it says £0.00 will be taken and does not warn you the amount of the pre-authorisation. So someone could think they would have zero authorised and about £41 taken out in 30 days, hence sign up for a 6 month sub, and that caused them to get charges as £41 of funds temporarily became unavailable or took them over their limit etc
And many EU banks do not act kindly at all, in the UK they are obliged by law to let everyone have a basic account, even those they wish weren't customers, they often can be very very very reluctant to refund charges especially if it was caused by a 3rd party error as they will tell you to claim from them.
Don't forget this game launched globally and as such, Zenimax has to take account of the laws in the countries it chooses to sell the game to,
And while Zenimax is a US ocompany I believe they have EU offices
Absolutely the case in the EU. Messy in the US especially as a lot of stuff varies by state.
Comments
You know, this is why we keep getting buggy arsed fucked up games launching with half arsed content and increasingly abusive company policies shoved down our throats.
Way too many gamers will excuse literally anything.
Company takes money it's not entitled to without warning? Obviously the consumer's fault...
If I didn't know better I'd think half the posts in this thread satire.
Sadly, I know better.
Hey, but unless you're EA or Blizz (and, frankly, probably even if you are), you can show up at people's houses, bugger their dog, and you'll have armies of fans defending your actions as obviously being your dog's fault.
Normally, authorization checks won't hit your account at all as long as they're coming from a credit network (e.g. Debit/Credit card). If they do hit your account, demand a refund from the bank and then get a better bank. Or even better, use a credit union.
The only time an authorization check should actually hit your account is if it's coming in as an ACH/INC transaction, which skips the pending stage for the most part. You can tell which of the two methods is being used by the information you provide. If they ask for a credit/debit card number, the charge will go through a pending process for a few days and then disappear. If they ask for a check and/or routing number, they're using ACH/INC and all transactions will occur directly on your account.
As someone who does this for a living, I can tell you that it's better to avoid ACH deductions wherever possible. If they give you the option of using a credit card number, you should always do that instead (and be explicit that it should not be processed as a debit).
I said it once, i'll say it again with proof this time, if you're gonna talk, at least know WHAT you're talking about.
http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/overdraft-fees-what-banks-charge/
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
so the story ends here why there are 8 pages ? : p
I have to agree somewhere someone dropped the ball when more and more games are becoming F2P for this kind of charge to be happening before the free time is up is very unusual.
It get s complicated because under most EU countries law they would be liable
For the simple reason when you take out the sub it says £0.00 will be taken and does not warn you the amount of the pre-authorisation. So someone could think they would have zero authorised and about £41 taken out in 30 days, hence sign up for a 6 month sub, and that caused them to get charges as £41 of funds temporarily became unavailable or took them over their limit etc
And many EU banks do not act kindly at all, in the UK they are obliged by law to let everyone have a basic account, even those they wish weren't customers, they often can be very very very reluctant to refund charges especially if it was caused by a 3rd party error as they will tell you to claim from them.
Don't forget this game launched globally and as such, Zenimax has to take account of the laws in the countries it chooses to sell the game to,
And while Zenimax is a US ocompany I believe they have EU offices
Sorry that is pure ignorance and arrogance.
There are people in the UK resorting to food banks to feed themselves.
There's hard working people with two jobs on min wage trying to feed their families who would love to have a £100 balance to fall back on. But back in the real world, many many don't,.
And those in the UK fall into insignificance when you look at the amount of families in the US living in poverty, tents, cars etc
You might be lucky enough to live like that, I might be lucky enough to live like that, but believe it or not, the vast majority of the human race isn't, and to judge such people well sometimes peoples attitudes fail me. Someone works hard supporting their family, saves up and gets a game, is not informed anywhere that money will be taken out of their account now, so subs budgeting for the money being there at the end of the month and your saying it's their fault if they get charges????
I love TESO but they are really pissing a lot of players off over their sub.
The main thread on their forum is now up to 31,500 views and getting bigger every minute.
They seem to be digging themselves into a bigger and bigger hole over it.
They made one comment in that huge thread since it started, that was yesterday and they said
Someone made the following comment
I and many others pointed out that they are saying that if you intend to pay with a gamer card, you have to purchase another 30 days before you can get the initial 30 days that was supposed to be included.
So far no further response.
But someone did post an email they received from them today about it
And yet someone else has also pointed out the following
I have to be honest, this might sound like madness, but I haven't really felt like playing today even though I love this game, I am so sick to death of companies treating us like that that part of me feels like simply trying to get a refund.
Would it make any difference though, would they care, would it be just me not getting to play a game the devs have put a lot of hard work in? Me sticking up for a principle that they laugh at?
Personally I have no probs subbing and them authorising the full amount from a financial point of view, but when instead of apologising, they simply effectively say that's the way it's meant to work, well it makes me angry
And as for the few people sticking up for them?????
If you sign up for 6 months it tells you it is taking £0.00 out of your account but in reality authorises about £41 Sure you get it back, some within the hour, some still not after 24, but that's not the point, they should make this sort of thing clear.
And as for not getting access to the 30 days I have already paid for until I do take out a sub,
Their head of marketing Peter Hines said before release
Rant mode off
Absolutely the case in the EU. Messy in the US especially as a lot of stuff varies by state.