Personally I very much like the idea of the guild stores instead of having a global auction house. I think that Zenimax learned from games like Guild Wars 2 or Diablo 3. The supplies of multiple worlds in one auction house kills the economy and offers bot-driven ressource farmers a gate to flood the market with unrightful gathered resources.
Also, trading in ESO is an easy thing. You can join 5 guilds. Simply join 2 or 3 Trade Guilds and you are good to go. Some Trade Guilds offer the rights to invite further members. Their leaders tend to aggressively advertise their guild on zone chats making them quickly reach numbers of 300+ members - a great opportunity for selling and buying ressources and items.
And then there are the "Real Trade Guilds". They offer a place to socialize and offer a place for collaboration between crafters. I bet that on the long run some Trade Guilds will become famous for supplying their market with loads of masterworks.
Of course some things can still be optimized, but I prefer the Trade Guild System over Auction Houses. But yes, they do not cater to lazy players. :-P
Originally posted by Xasapis The game has more basic issues than fees. For example, the ability to search for a specific item and filters that actually work.
I agree. Listing fee is smaller issue compared to the awful design of the guild store. Hard to believe this game was in development for 5 years.
What I actually hate is how huge the price is alone, there's little reason to sell anything above 200g on these "Auction houses" at all, just spam the chat and COD it...
There should be a fee of course, but it's too damn high to be reasonable, imagine selling books for 2k or so (nowadays prices), thats incredibly high for the "AH"...
pfffff... next cry post. world is a better place now... totaly.
voted #4: couldn't care less.
i was about to say the same Thanks
Game is unfortunately so full of issues, it's hard not to see all those posts coming. The sad part is that those issues are real and not made up or grossly exaggerated, unfortunately.
What means "full of issues"? Are you talking about real issues or about things that some players simply dislike, because it does not cater to their playstyle?
ESO plays like a bit like an oldschool MMORPG. The game takes a big step away of instant gratification that many players are used to nowadays. I find this quite refreshing.
About trading fees. I bet that sooner or later a Trader skill line will be introduced featuring barter abilities, increasing the amount of items you can list, reducing fees to list items and so on. I think this would be the best solution to this so called issue.
Originally posted by doragon86 I just want a damn auction house. Would make life easier finding good prices. I'm sure eventually some auction house websites will pop up, but nonetheless, would prefer a solid in-game one. Anyways, I could care less about the fee, as there is little point to putting stuff in the guild store, as it's rather difficult to find what you need on it due to the lack luster search filter.
There are people that don't play the games but play the auction houses, inflating prices month after month. As a Gw2 player, I don't think auction houses are so great.
Ye, and inflation doesnt happen in games without auction house. amirite?
You really havent thought this through, price of ecto in GW2 has been solid for quite a while now, rest of the mats fluctuated by supply/demand as it should be (platinum was next to nothing until ascended was introduced)
Can you provide exact examples of this huge inflation in GW2 youre talking about?
In fact i can get a set of exotics for 50s-1g per piece while a year ago it was 1,5g-3g minimum.
Inflation...is not what you think it is.
Guild stores are stupid concept in its roots (it equals social points in SWTOR in stupidity)
pfffff... next cry post. world is a better place now... totaly.
voted #4: couldn't care less.
i was about to say the same Thanks
Game is unfortunately so full of issues, it's hard not to see all those posts coming. The sad part is that those issues are real and not made up or grossly exaggerated, unfortunately.
What means "full of issues"? Are you talking about real issues or about things that some players simply dislike, because it does not cater to their playstyle?
ESO plays like a bit like an oldschool MMORPG. The game takes a big step away of instant gratification that many players are used to nowadays. I find this quite refreshing.
About trading fees. I bet that sooner or later a Trader skill line will be introduced featuring barter abilities, increasing the amount of items you can list, reducing fees to list items and so on. I think this would be the best solution to this so called issue.
I don't think you understand what old school means.
Saying more developed AH system of modern MMO"s are insta gratification is same as saying people who use cars and bikes as means of transportation are looking for instant gratification because they do not walk anymore.
Don't confuse convenience with insta gratification.
pfffff... next cry post. world is a better place now... totaly.
voted #4: couldn't care less.
i was about to say the same Thanks
Game is unfortunately so full of issues, it's hard not to see all those posts coming. The sad part is that those issues are real and not made up or grossly exaggerated, unfortunately.
What means "full of issues"? Are you talking about real issues or about things that some players simply dislike, because it does not cater to their playstyle?
ESO plays like a bit like an oldschool MMORPG. The game takes a big step away of instant gratification that many players are used to nowadays. I find this quite refreshing.
About trading fees. I bet that sooner or later a Trader skill line will be introduced featuring barter abilities, increasing the amount of items you can list, reducing fees to list items and so on. I think this would be the best solution to this so called issue.
Real issues. As of yesterday, there was no search function for specific item in the guild store. Imagine a guild of 400 people with 10 items posted each, and then being unable to look for specific items, like certain material. Also, as of yesterday even the filter listing was not working. For example, selecting materials was giving me full armours and other irrelevant stuff.
And these are issues specific to the topic. We can have a discussion about every aspect of the game (including support, still have an issue unresolved after 15 days) and you will see that the game was a. not polished enough to iron the probems or b. lacks functionality and solutions that decades of mmorpg history have made them a standard.
pfffff... next cry post. world is a better place now... totaly.
voted #4: couldn't care less.
i was about to say the same Thanks
Game is unfortunately so full of issues, it's hard not to see all those posts coming. The sad part is that those issues are real and not made up or grossly exaggerated, unfortunately.
What means "full of issues"? Are you talking about real issues or about things that some players simply dislike, because it does not cater to their playstyle?
ESO plays like a bit like an oldschool MMORPG. The game takes a big step away of instant gratification that many players are used to nowadays. I find this quite refreshing.
About trading fees. I bet that sooner or later a Trader skill line will be introduced featuring barter abilities, increasing the amount of items you can list, reducing fees to list items and so on. I think this would be the best solution to this so called issue.
I don't think you understand what old school means.
Saying more developed AH system of modern MMO"s are insta gratification is same as saying people who use cars and bikes as means of transportation are looking for instant gratification because they do not walk anymore.
Don't confuse convenience with insta gratification.
You speak of convenience, I call it lazyness. I used the wording instant gratification, because it is a bit more friendly and clearly aims towards what certain players want: The benefit of having access to a global market without any efforts besides listing goods in order to increase sales. The increased visibility can be understood the instant gratification.
In classic MMORPGs you actually had to do something to sell your goods. For example in Dark Age of Camelot you had to use the chat to sell your goods. Later on with housing introduced you could list your goods on a consignment merchant NPC bound to your house. Players had to run around and check out the consignment merchants for interesting offers. In the end Mythic implemented a market search that also allowed to directly buy goods. Calling for more convenience, not only this system but all systems related to what makes a challenging and immersive MMORPG were dumbed down. The auction house is a part of this process.
Maybe the following comparison is a bit steep and off, but this reminds me a bit of how World of Warcraft players always claim that they had the best time in Vanilla WoW and TBC. One factor is, because back in this time WoW was new. Another huge point is that every WoW player will tell you that Vanilla WoW and TBC were very difficult to master. Even today they can tell you stories that you could write volumes about of how happy they were when defeating Illidan or that Blood Elfish Sun guy. With Wraith of the Lich King began the age of dumbing down WoW and online games in general to cater to the masses.
Now comes the fun and interesting part. Compare user acquisition rates to expansions. The following chart shows that the greatest influx of new players happened with Vanilla WoW (Q1 2005 - Q1 2007) and The Burning Crusade (Q1 2007 - Q4 2008). With the release of Wraith of the Lich King (Q4 2008 - Q4 2010) began the time of declining influx, then stagnating player numbers and finally the loss of players.
My theory is that dumbing down MMORPGs and offering too much "convenience" lowers the overall satisfaction.
Unfortunately many players miss to self-reflect when it comes to what actually is good in a MMORPG for them on the long run. Hell, we want it all and we want it now ... possibly without any efforts. Taking a sales psychological approach, the topic becomes even more interesting. While an auction house offers you the benefit of being able to easily and quickly list, buy and sell goods, it takes away the long-term satisfying factor of direct trade including bargaining and successfully closing deals that wouldn't have become an option when trading via the auction house list. Also, a Trade Guild driven market means that resources are limited and that certain goods are rare.
Bottomline:
Rarity equates to difficulty to obtain. The more difficult something is to obtain, the greater the happiness you experience and the stronger the positive memories related to this achievement when obtaining it.
Maybe I'm just too old for this shi* and have no clue what makes a good game. All the MMO hopping kids must be right! *lol*
For a game which provides instant teleportation and looking for group tools and all other modern features of 'convenience' or 'insta gratification' i find it amusing to just cherry pick guild stores as the last standing bastion of old school MMOS.
If you want to talk about laziness then lets talk about the entire MMO and not just AH otherwise we are just being dis honest with ourselves in this discussion.
pfffff... next cry post. world is a better place now... totaly.
voted #4: couldn't care less.
i was about to say the same Thanks
Game is unfortunately so full of issues, it's hard not to see all those posts coming. The sad part is that those issues are real and not made up or grossly exaggerated, unfortunately.
What means "full of issues"? Are you talking about real issues or about things that some players simply dislike, because it does not cater to their playstyle?
ESO plays like a bit like an oldschool MMORPG. The game takes a big step away of instant gratification that many players are used to nowadays. I find this quite refreshing.
About trading fees. I bet that sooner or later a Trader skill line will be introduced featuring barter abilities, increasing the amount of items you can list, reducing fees to list items and so on. I think this would be the best solution to this so called issue.
Real issues. As of yesterday, there was no search function for specific item in the guild store. Imagine a guild of 400 people with 10 items posted each, and then being unable to look for specific items, like certain material. Also, as of yesterday even the filter listing was not working. For example, selecting materials was giving me full armours and other irrelevant stuff.
And these are issues specific to the topic. We can have a discussion about every aspect of the game (including support, still have an issue unresolved after 15 days) and you will see that the game was a. not polished enough to iron the probems or b. lacks functionality and solutions that decades of mmorpg history have made them a standard.
Indeed. A not properly working search filter or such a long waiting time for an answer of the support team are real issues.
Though, I think that this is not enough to call the game "full of issues". Please, don't misunderstand me. I feel with you and know very well that it sucks when customer support tickets remain unresolved over a long time, but the game has a lot more to offer than a trade filter and most of it works perfect.
Well supposedly these devs listen to their player base. If the complaint about their guild store system is vocal enough on their official forums and the devs go back and look through their logs (assuming they have the means to track guild store transaction data) then maybe they will have the metrics to determine if the system works or not by comparing player-to-player trades versus guild store purchases to look and see which has more items and currency exchange hands.
If it's a big problem for you and you want voice your opinion on this AND get some feedback or answer you should post on the official forum of the game ... not here.
Many things in ESO need fixing, but i like Guild Store and reckon it only needs a slight improvement (in functionality).
my main guild is a none trading guild (though i also join a few trading guilds).
it doesnt rly work like other trading guilds because members price items relatively low in store as to support each other. this is good because it mean we are charged with small fees. as opposed to trading guilds where traders like to spike up prices n get big margins.
its more like a co operation. a lot of commodities are not even listed in store but in bank instead and free to pick up. ofc this mean we are selective in ginvite process but so far it works out pretty well.
For a game which provides instant teleportation and looking for group tools and all other modern features of 'convenience' or 'insta gratification' i find it amusing to just cherry pick guild stores as the last standing bastion of old school MMOS.
If you want to talk about laziness then lets talk about the entire MMO and not just AH otherwise we are just being dis honest with ourselves in this discussion.
Oh, I'm so sorry that you are not honest with yourself in this discussion. Just kidding! ;-)
The topic is about guild stores and not about instant teleportation or group tools. This is why I did not mention these features. If you wish to discuss the entire game and its features, feel free to open a seperate topic and invite me. I will join you and share my opinion.
Originally posted by Leiloni FYI, it's I couldn't care less. If you could care less than you do actually care.
Well excuse me, I care because I have 500 members in my Guild Store guild and do not like seeing them all lose money because of adjustments. Its a guild masters job to make sure this issue is raised.
Well then go to ESO forum and post there it dont help post here and whine about if want change thing do on right forum ^^
While I agree with you OP I question the wisdom of crying in this forum.
A few 500 member guilds you say? Do you not think it would be more productive to get those 1,500 to 2,000 people to /feedback in game directly to the devs?
While you're at it, please ask them to sort out the materials filter when searching. I want to see only materials as per my inventory tab, not everything including consumables, weaps and armour.
Thank you...
ps - This post reminds me, I must change my sig.. Can someone PM me a good ESO sig generator please?
Comments
Personally I very much like the idea of the guild stores instead of having a global auction house. I think that Zenimax learned from games like Guild Wars 2 or Diablo 3. The supplies of multiple worlds in one auction house kills the economy and offers bot-driven ressource farmers a gate to flood the market with unrightful gathered resources.
Also, trading in ESO is an easy thing. You can join 5 guilds. Simply join 2 or 3 Trade Guilds and you are good to go. Some Trade Guilds offer the rights to invite further members. Their leaders tend to aggressively advertise their guild on zone chats making them quickly reach numbers of 300+ members - a great opportunity for selling and buying ressources and items.
And then there are the "Real Trade Guilds". They offer a place to socialize and offer a place for collaboration between crafters. I bet that on the long run some Trade Guilds will become famous for supplying their market with loads of masterworks.
Of course some things can still be optimized, but I prefer the Trade Guild System over Auction Houses. But yes, they do not cater to lazy players. :-P
I agree. Listing fee is smaller issue compared to the awful design of the guild store. Hard to believe this game was in development for 5 years.
What I actually hate is how huge the price is alone, there's little reason to sell anything above 200g on these "Auction houses" at all, just spam the chat and COD it...
There should be a fee of course, but it's too damn high to be reasonable, imagine selling books for 2k or so (nowadays prices), thats incredibly high for the "AH"...
What means "full of issues"? Are you talking about real issues or about things that some players simply dislike, because it does not cater to their playstyle?
ESO plays like a bit like an oldschool MMORPG. The game takes a big step away of instant gratification that many players are used to nowadays. I find this quite refreshing.
About trading fees. I bet that sooner or later a Trader skill line will be introduced featuring barter abilities, increasing the amount of items you can list, reducing fees to list items and so on. I think this would be the best solution to this so called issue.
Ye, and inflation doesnt happen in games without auction house. amirite?
You really havent thought this through, price of ecto in GW2 has been solid for quite a while now, rest of the mats fluctuated by supply/demand as it should be (platinum was next to nothing until ascended was introduced)
Can you provide exact examples of this huge inflation in GW2 youre talking about?
In fact i can get a set of exotics for 50s-1g per piece while a year ago it was 1,5g-3g minimum.
Inflation...is not what you think it is.
Guild stores are stupid concept in its roots (it equals social points in SWTOR in stupidity)
I don't think you understand what old school means.
Saying more developed AH system of modern MMO"s are insta gratification is same as saying people who use cars and bikes as means of transportation are looking for instant gratification because they do not walk anymore.
Don't confuse convenience with insta gratification.
Real issues. As of yesterday, there was no search function for specific item in the guild store. Imagine a guild of 400 people with 10 items posted each, and then being unable to look for specific items, like certain material. Also, as of yesterday even the filter listing was not working. For example, selecting materials was giving me full armours and other irrelevant stuff.
And these are issues specific to the topic. We can have a discussion about every aspect of the game (including support, still have an issue unresolved after 15 days) and you will see that the game was a. not polished enough to iron the probems or b. lacks functionality and solutions that decades of mmorpg history have made them a standard.
You speak of convenience, I call it lazyness. I used the wording instant gratification, because it is a bit more friendly and clearly aims towards what certain players want: The benefit of having access to a global market without any efforts besides listing goods in order to increase sales. The increased visibility can be understood the instant gratification.
In classic MMORPGs you actually had to do something to sell your goods. For example in Dark Age of Camelot you had to use the chat to sell your goods. Later on with housing introduced you could list your goods on a consignment merchant NPC bound to your house. Players had to run around and check out the consignment merchants for interesting offers. In the end Mythic implemented a market search that also allowed to directly buy goods. Calling for more convenience, not only this system but all systems related to what makes a challenging and immersive MMORPG were dumbed down. The auction house is a part of this process.
Maybe the following comparison is a bit steep and off, but this reminds me a bit of how World of Warcraft players always claim that they had the best time in Vanilla WoW and TBC. One factor is, because back in this time WoW was new. Another huge point is that every WoW player will tell you that Vanilla WoW and TBC were very difficult to master. Even today they can tell you stories that you could write volumes about of how happy they were when defeating Illidan or that Blood Elfish Sun guy. With Wraith of the Lich King began the age of dumbing down WoW and online games in general to cater to the masses.
Now comes the fun and interesting part. Compare user acquisition rates to expansions. The following chart shows that the greatest influx of new players happened with Vanilla WoW (Q1 2005 - Q1 2007) and The Burning Crusade (Q1 2007 - Q4 2008). With the release of Wraith of the Lich King (Q4 2008 - Q4 2010) began the time of declining influx, then stagnating player numbers and finally the loss of players.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/276601/number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-by-quarter/
My theory is that dumbing down MMORPGs and offering too much "convenience" lowers the overall satisfaction.
Unfortunately many players miss to self-reflect when it comes to what actually is good in a MMORPG for them on the long run. Hell, we want it all and we want it now ... possibly without any efforts. Taking a sales psychological approach, the topic becomes even more interesting. While an auction house offers you the benefit of being able to easily and quickly list, buy and sell goods, it takes away the long-term satisfying factor of direct trade including bargaining and successfully closing deals that wouldn't have become an option when trading via the auction house list. Also, a Trade Guild driven market means that resources are limited and that certain goods are rare.
Bottomline:
Rarity equates to difficulty to obtain. The more difficult something is to obtain, the greater the happiness you experience and the stronger the positive memories related to this achievement when obtaining it.
Maybe I'm just too old for this shi* and have no clue what makes a good game. All the MMO hopping kids must be right! *lol*
For a game which provides instant teleportation and looking for group tools and all other modern features of 'convenience' or 'insta gratification' i find it amusing to just cherry pick guild stores as the last standing bastion of old school MMOS.
If you want to talk about laziness then lets talk about the entire MMO and not just AH otherwise we are just being dis honest with ourselves in this discussion.
Indeed. A not properly working search filter or such a long waiting time for an answer of the support team are real issues.
Though, I think that this is not enough to call the game "full of issues". Please, don't misunderstand me. I feel with you and know very well that it sucks when customer support tickets remain unresolved over a long time, but the game has a lot more to offer than a trade filter and most of it works perfect.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I make LOTS of gold by just typing simple things:
/zone WTS <Item> <Amount>.....Profit.
I did not vote btw. Good luck thou.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
If it's a big problem for you and you want voice your opinion on this AND get some feedback or answer you should post on the official forum of the game ... not here.
My vote: I COULDN'T CARE LESS
Many things in ESO need fixing, but i like Guild Store and reckon it only needs a slight improvement (in functionality).
my main guild is a none trading guild (though i also join a few trading guilds).
it doesnt rly work like other trading guilds because members price items relatively low in store as to support each other. this is good because it mean we are charged with small fees. as opposed to trading guilds where traders like to spike up prices n get big margins.
its more like a co operation. a lot of commodities are not even listed in store but in bank instead and free to pick up. ofc this mean we are selective in ginvite process but so far it works out pretty well.
I don't give a shit. It can't be less important, and furthermore, it reduces manipulation of the market for one profit.
Search is a more serious issue, it's a pain in the ass to browse dozens of pages just to find what I want.
Oh, I'm so sorry that you are not honest with yourself in this discussion. Just kidding! ;-)
The topic is about guild stores and not about instant teleportation or group tools. This is why I did not mention these features. If you wish to discuss the entire game and its features, feel free to open a seperate topic and invite me. I will join you and share my opinion.
I was going to say something, but Thane did it for me.
Well then go to ESO forum and post there it dont help post here and whine about if want change thing do on right forum ^^
While I agree with you OP I question the wisdom of crying in this forum.
A few 500 member guilds you say? Do you not think it would be more productive to get those 1,500 to 2,000 people to /feedback in game directly to the devs?
While you're at it, please ask them to sort out the materials filter when searching. I want to see only materials as per my inventory tab, not everything including consumables, weaps and armour.
Thank you...
ps - This post reminds me, I must change my sig.. Can someone PM me a good ESO sig generator please?
WTT this topic for a cold beer.