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[Dev Journal] Trials of Ascension: Back to Basics - Dynamic Spawning
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Welcome to the first installment of Back to Basics. For the next few months we’re going to use this series to help explain some of the features and mechanics in Trials of Ascension. Throughout this series you’ll notice that the mechanics / features we discuss will differ than what some people would consider “normal” in today’s MMORPG market.
Read more of our exclusive developer diary, Trials of Ascension: Back to Basics - Dynamic Spawning.
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Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8POVoJ8fdOseuJ4U1ZX-oA
It all depends on how the servers are setup. If they limit the loading to the select biome than there really isn't that much of an issue. ToA Maps aren't going to be as large as what common MMOs have. However they will feel larger due to the features they are implementing, So, due to the reduced size and keeping it to that selected Biome, there really isn't as much data as say ESO in one of their maps.
I honestly don't think that will be a problem. Have you played neverwinter? You download entire instances with quest lines there on the go, and the data needed to be sent across here would be much smaller, as you only need the information about the immideate changes. The information needed to be send. Across would be something like: this type of tree (could be an integer or an object) at this position with this rotation (six doubles) and at this stage (one integer), which would only be around 20-50 bytes or so. And also, it's not like a new tree pops up every second. Wurm online also have big world changes, like terraforming and they manage
Looks very interesting!
The danger with this type of procedural system is always that your world seems a little less genuine though. If you enter a game world in Metro: Last Light or Shadow of the Colossus (two of the most atmospheric games that come to mind now), you feel like everything has been there for some time, that there's a history to everything that the devs put in there.
I've never really had the same feel with something that's procedural.
But if they can pull it off, all the power to them!
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Fdzzaigl, by procedural I understand something that is automated in its generation. This is actually the opposite. In a classic MMO like Everquest or WoW you have had the designers place every single tree. If something is procedurally generated, in my understanding it is being generated - trees are being placed - by a complex algorithm.
This is in fact neither - although individual trees are being placed by a spawn algorithm, GMs control the spawn points and movements. I applaud that this game is trying something new, it is really exciting and pretty. I am skeptical though, because I'd rather that the game world develops through the interaction between players and environment. The problem I see here is that GMs change the environment manually on a day-to-day or week-to-week basis, which will kill immersion for me.
I dread the thought of having all my efforts and planning annulled because the GMs decided to spawn more trees, or less trees, or more mobs, since I last logged in.
You will never be able to tell whether a certain change was made by the game mechanics on its own or a GM making a change. Not only that but the people themselves will have an effect on the environment too, such as cutting down trees, harvesting shrubs, building structures, etc.
Also keep in mind that the spawn rate you see in the video is sped up EXTREMELY fast. For the games release, it will be a very slow spawn rate and over a large distance. Not some kind of "Log out and then log in the next day and you're in the middle of a jungle" situation.
Besides, how many times have we played an mmo where you've seen the same exact environment/trees/structures over and over and over? It's great when you see it for the first time but then 6 months later you don't pay attention to it because you've seen it a thousand times. All that hard work the dev's put into making that game just to capture your attention for a brief moment and now its nothing.
In ToA, everything is changing from the flora/trees to structures and caves and more. It may not happen overnight but it will definitely immerse you into the game every time you see something new that you hadn't seen before.
I think GimiZigi hit the nail on the head with this one. I will also note what the Devs have said in their podcasts about dynamic spawning. They said that their plan is to implement spawns with ways for player characters to interact with the spawn. Their example was for an orc spawn to keep spawning until a certain orc was spawned, and to kill that particular orc ended the spawn point and the orcs were defeated.
The GMs could so easily do this with the environment too. For example, over hunting and over harvesting could run plants and animals out of areas. The example used in the article above suggests that animals who aren't hunted and overpopulate will cause problems for local farmers. Sounds like a lot of fun to me.
http://www.toa-wiki.com/wiki/ToA:Podcast_5_(Dynamic_spawning)
it reminds me Storybricks, who last year moved into Everquest Next development ..
it is really interesting i hope they will get more resources in the way to polish their work / ideas
It does on paper sound like a great idea,sort of like a living ECO system which i have been crying for many years.
However i don't quite understand the design,if a GM does not place a blue marker that portion of the world is completely barren?I assume the GM's have gone around and placed the spawn markers all over the game world already which in that case would really be no different than any other spawning game.SO i guess i am not quite sure as to what they are trying to sell me here,what exactly is this going to change from normal gaming?
The ONLY real way to create an ECO system is to have spawn rates set to VERY slow,like perhaps seasonal and to have the creatures feed off of each other and to have true need for eating and drink,in other words a REALISTIC role playing game design.
As to the growth idea,that to me looks nothing more than a simple object re-sizing tool,example model is in 0.2 stage then 0.5 stage then in 1.0 stage.If it is actually a different model/mesh for each stage then yes that would be cool but if it is the exact same model,nothing special there.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think the point is that instead of having things like trees and shrubs replace themselves in a direct fashion, growth will spread and repopulate based on a semi-random algorhythm, so a forest won't grow back looking exactly the same. I'm sure they can individually place trees and the like from the outset if desired, but the idea would be that instead of placing each tree in every region they would set various spawn markers in motion and let the forest flesh out and populate itself, filling out to a reasonable level before launching the game to players. And yes, I think the intention is for the expansion and replenishment to be a slow process.
And yeah I believe they say that the growth thing does allow them to use completely different models (at least some of those shown are different). Whether they have enough assets to demonstrate that right now is a different story.
Sounds pretty awesome... just wondering how it's all going to survive contact with the players. I mean if it takes for example 10 (real-time) days for a tree to grow and 5 minutes to chop it down what stops (or even just discourages) players from turning the world into a wasteland?
Same thing with the ruins example. If there was a settlement there it was probably a good spot, so why would players leave it alone long enough for it to become a ruin?
FYI. Not criticizing, just asking, as I'm yet to see (or think of) a really good answer to this question.