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You can only use 5 skills at a time

2

Comments

  • CoffeeBreakCoffeeBreak Member Posts: 236

    It could be for consoles but it seems more likely to me it's so you can't easily stack every ability you could possibly want.

     

     In games like Wow, Rift, and Swtor is doesn't make any difference.  Many attacks/abilites do the same thing(stronger versions of each other), are spec specific, or share CDs.  

     

    In ESO, having every buff/debuff, charge, pull, push, stun, knockback, heal, and attack available at any moment would be even more impossible to balance than mmos normally are.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Member UncommonPosts: 1,131
    Originally posted by dbgager
    What??? Only 5 buttons on the ability bar. Don't understand why they implemented this.

    I see your point ...most people only use three skills and depend on auto-attack to do most damage , ESO makes you use 12 skills and no auto attack so it's quite a bit more complex then most post 2004 games . After about 30 hours of game play you'll start to master the skills required to play a game using 12 unique  abilities and then the sky is the limit in your development.

  • AcidonAcidon Member UncommonPosts: 796
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Originally posted by dbgager
    What??? Only 5 buttons on the ability bar. Don't understand why they implemented this.

    Welcome to weeks ago.  Please feel free to look up one of the many, many lengthy threads devoted to this dead horse.

    Dead Horse Theory

  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by timtrack

    Light attack, Heavy attack, Block, 5 skills x 2, Ultimate x 2, Weapon Switch, "Usable" wheel for 12 or so items such as potions, Dodge, Sprint, Sneak, Synergies, interrupt.

    That's at least 16 keybindings and 12 assignable skills to juggle (excluding movement and jumping) for your every day combat.

    You can also do different combo's and synergies. For example, if you block a heavy attack your opponent becomes disoriented, you can now fire your own heavy attack which will cause a knockdown. Some skills also give Synergy skills to your allies which they can activate, you can for example use a ground effect that slows/mitigates damage/does damage while also giving allies in the area a skill that makes them invisible and heals (this skill can also be morphed so 2 people with that skill could have different effects). And other synergies such as one skill affecting another.

    There is loads of complexity and fun here. Personally i would have wanted 1 or 2 more skills per weapon set, but it works pretty well as it is.

    In my case, weapon switch is unreliable, gotten me killed on several occasions, and I have no clue how to really "use" the wheel, heck, even pressing the Q key doesn't actually seem to trigger the potion I put in the slot half the time.

    Definitely a limited interface, but I'm adapting the best that I can.

    Never been a issue for me.  Hold down the Q key and select the items you want to quick cast and than tap Q to use it from then on.  Has always worked for me unless it's on cool down.

    I did remap the weapon switch key to a different place and that made it much more useful.  The ` isn't a good place for me but that's me.  

    I have played solo/group/raid content in EQ2 with 7 bars of 10 abilities on my screen plus a few others that I switch to as needed for over 7 years and having lots of abilities doesn't make a game difficult or complex.  In fact I find having lots of choices but only a few hot bar slots to place them on makes you have to choose what matters to you.  Is that buff that increases my armor worth a hot bar slot or not?  Where in EQ2 you can slot everything and it's just a matter of do you have enough time to cast everything before the cool downs expire.

  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,424

    There's a lot more than 5 skills at a time...

     

    1 quick slot, with switching (fairly easy once you get used to it)

    10 skills (at level 15 you can switch between two weapons)

    2 Ultimates

    2 Left mouse button moves (light and heavy attack)

    4 Roll moves

    1 Block

    1 Interrupt

    multiple synergy moves when in groups.

     

    So add that all up and you got 22 skills available if a synergy is available...that's decent if you ask me...

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    Originally posted by CoffeeBreak

    It could be for consoles but it seems more likely to me it's so you can't easily stack every ability you could possibly want.

     

     In games like Wow, Rift, and Swtor is doesn't make any difference.  Many attacks/abilites do the same thing(stronger versions of each other), are spec specific, or share CDs.  

     

    In ESO, having every buff/debuff, charge, pull, push, stun, knockback, heal, and attack available at any moment would be even more impossible to balance than mmos normally are.

    This as well as the fact that well, it IS an Elder Scrolls game. When the hell were they ever about having 5 hotbars full of abilities with tons of different skills to use at any moment? In fact when did they have ANY bars full of abilities? They did expand on that for the MMO version, but still wanted to keep it somewhat limited.

    It's designed towards mastering a particular build, or set of builds which you can swap between, with limited access to your abilities at any given time. They designed the classes in a way that every class CAN perform every role, but not all at the same time. You have to decide on what you want your character to be focused on for each encounter rather than deciding mid fight "im a healer! now im a tank! now im a dps!".

    Fortunately they also gave us enough skill points, and the freedom, to be able to setup multiple builds so that if you like you can switch roles between encounters. Just requires quite a bit of time in actually getting all of those seprate skills, sub-classes, weapon, and armor types up to par if you plan on doing it that way instead of having a more narrow focus on your build. Would also highly recommend getting an addon like Wykkyd's Outfitter (along with Framework) which allows you to setup entire gear & hotbar sets, then create a macro which triggers those sets, and swap between them with the press of a button. Very useful for swapping between entirely different builds.

  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,424
    If you want to compare, they could have made it like Skyrim, you only got like 7 moves total if you include blocking and rolling around...
  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381
    Originally posted by dbgager
    What??? Only 5 buttons on the ability bar. Don't understand why they implemented this.

    Did not know this. Actually because of enforced WASD I will never play ESO, but this is another very big minus. Stopped to play TSW because of that terrible button-mashing 7 buttons limit. Imagine now 5. If it is so I'm really glad have not purcshased. Fortunately there are few good games out there (and some are coming) that cover my gaming needs for 12 months per year. :-)

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610

    Shh... people aren't smart enough to figure out that you actually have a total of 18 abilities that can be used..

     

    I am totally for minimizing unneeded skills and making it easier for the casual player in regards to controls.  I don't even think I had 18 actions to use in WoW.  In Rift, I was forced to macro skills in order to be successful.  

     

    Not sure how I came up with 18?  

     

    1-5 bar

    6-10 bar

    11-12 ultimate

    13 quick slot

    14 charged attack

    15 block

    16 bash

    17 weapon swap

    18 dodge

     

    No that I had the mention this, but there is no true tab targetting system, so you actively have to attempt to aim a little bit.  It's more action oriented.  I guess people are still too stuck in their snooze fest 1,2,3 game.

     

    Go ahead.. let the stupidity sink in..

  • cronius77cronius77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,652

    yeah i seriously do not get the complaining here either. In games like Rift LOTR WOW etc all you get is ability bloat and even the devs have started trying to do away with that in the older games. People thinking this combat is simple compared to the old games are obviously not playing it. In all the old games all you do is stand there and get wacked on if you played melee and either out DPS mobs before they kill your health pools or you pop some heal off. At least in games like this, GW2, Tera, Neverwinter you can dodge most attacks or block them and combat is much more interactive. I enjoy ESO further with the ability to parry and riposte with all weapons instead of always dodging around the screen. 

    I do get it though my wife was like this at first also as she played wow for years and never any of the more action combat games. All she did was bitch and moan about she hated it and constantly nagged about how the combat was boring and horrible. Then she finally got the hang of it and stopped dying and now she loves it much more than the old tab target stuff. I think people that are not used to it need time to adjust and are probably just frustrated.

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405

    I think MMO Devs just figured out they can put a 3-5 button bar on the screen, save money on coding a proper bar, and call it "Next Gen." Apparently the players eat it up and renounce more abilities as "Not Deep," or use ad absurdium examples like a whole screen of buttons. Oh the dead horse is another fresh one, ironically used over and over again.

    If you were a fan of seeing your beloved abilities on the screen then you should mourn their loss and accept that the days of choosing your actions are over.

    Now you just react with a flick of the keys close to your hand, or better yet: use a gamepad so that the legions of console drones will accept you into their vast money-making fraternity.

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • RattenmannRattenmann Member UncommonPosts: 613
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    How many buttons would you want?

     

    Would you be happier if the game had 100 skills and the entire screen was full of buttons to press but totally obscured the actual game?

     

    It is what it is. Either get on playing it or don't. You can have 12 skills at any time, if you are not happy with that then the game is not for you.

    For me, 100 is closer on target then 5.

     

    How many exactly, i don't know. but definitly not less then 20. I don't want ALL buttons to be in every rotation (something the 5skill fanboys usually bring up), but i want to have some options all the time.

     

    Why not have 5 skills in your 2every day" rotation, but also have access to some aoe skills,... cc,... fluff spells? Why is it acceptable to be a mage and not being able to cast a fireball at a huge pack of mobs that are rushing at you, simply because you "forgot" how to cast it in favor or casting something differend?

     

    Why limit my options in a way like this?`Why not just have the old school 10 skill hotbars with 5 for your rotation and the rest for OPTIONAL options. You don't want two bars? Don't show them. That simple. But don't limit me in my options so you can make console players happy.

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by StanlyStanko
    RPGs are getting dumbed down just like people

    I see it more like limiting the number of skills you can use so it's harder for you to combine them to get the best thing for the different situations. Not just ESO, but other games which limit your bars as well.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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  • syntax42syntax42 Member UncommonPosts: 1,385
    Originally posted by Archlyte

    I think MMO Devs just figured out they can put a 3-5 button bar on the screen, save money on coding a proper bar, and call it "Next Gen." Apparently the players eat it up and renounce more abilities as "Not Deep," or use ad absurdium examples like a whole screen of buttons. Oh the dead horse is another fresh one, ironically used over and over again.

    If you were a fan of seeing your beloved abilities on the screen then you should mourn their loss and accept that the days of choosing your actions are over.

    Now you just react with a flick of the keys close to your hand, or better yet: use a gamepad so that the legions of console drones will accept you into their vast money-making fraternity.

    I find it hilarious how people think more buttons on the screen = more fun, deeper combat, and/or better controls.

    I only have four fingers to press buttons with.  Other than movement keys, I typically have access to the 1-5 keys and the F1-F4 keys for abilities on a standard keyboard.  That's only 9 buttons to deal with, yet the standard for MMOs is to feed 20-40 unique abilities upon players and expect them to figure out some sort of control scheme to use all of those buttons.  Macros and PC gamepads have been the primary answer to that problem, which I think shouldn't exist in the first place.

    I think games like ESO and TSW have it right.  A minimal UI enhances immersion.  Instead of watching cooldown timers, I'm watching the combat.  ESO has achieved a great variety of possible actions with minimal controls.  As others have pointed out, here are all the actions you can take in combat:

    5 abilities

    ultimate

    5 abilities on alternate weapon bar

    ultimate on alternate weapon bar

    standard attack

    heavy attack

    block

    interrupt attack

    dodge roll

    quickslot item

     

    That's 18 combat-related actions you can perform by yourself.  Group with friends and you can trigger synergies with certain abilities for more action in combat.  If 18 isn't enough for you, go play your old MMO and stare at cooldowns all day instead of watching the action.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,066

    And Go has exactly 1 type of piece and 1 move and it has incredible depth.

    Some people like games with tons of buttons. (and then they macro all those tons of buttons into a couple anyway)

    Other people prefer games with less buttons and more positioning.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by syntax42
    Originally posted by Archlyte

    I think MMO Devs just figured out they can put a 3-5 button bar on the screen, save money on coding a proper bar, and call it "Next Gen." Apparently the players eat it up and renounce more abilities as "Not Deep," or use ad absurdium examples like a whole screen of buttons. Oh the dead horse is another fresh one, ironically used over and over again.

    If you were a fan of seeing your beloved abilities on the screen then you should mourn their loss and accept that the days of choosing your actions are over.

    Now you just react with a flick of the keys close to your hand, or better yet: use a gamepad so that the legions of console drones will accept you into their vast money-making fraternity.

    I find it hilarious how people think more buttons on the screen = more fun, deeper combat, and/or better controls.

    I only have four fingers to press buttons with.  Other than movement keys, I typically have access to the 1-5 keys and the F1-F4 keys for abilities on a standard keyboard.  That's only 9 buttons to deal with, yet the standard for MMOs is to feed 20-40 unique abilities upon players and expect them to figure out some sort of control scheme to use all of those buttons.  Macros and PC gamepads have been the primary answer to that problem, which I think shouldn't exist in the first place.

    I think games like ESO and TSW have it right.  A minimal UI enhances immersion.  Instead of watching cooldown timers, I'm watching the combat.  ESO has achieved a great variety of possible actions with minimal controls.  As others have pointed out, here are all the actions you can take in combat:

    5 abilities

    ultimate

    5 abilities on alternate weapon bar

    ultimate on alternate weapon bar

    standard attack

    heavy attack

    block

    interrupt attack

    dodge roll

    quickslot item

     

    That's 18 combat-related actions you can perform by yourself.  Group with friends and you can trigger synergies with certain abilities for more action in combat.  If 18 isn't enough for you, go play your old MMO and stare at cooldowns all day instead of watching the action.

    Yeah. That's what it's about. Stare at cooldowns. Oh and I see you managed to include a mention of "Not Deep because of buttons."

    I also like how you gave me (very generous) 18 actions, but they have to be off screen choices made with mouse buttons, a kick pedal, and I guess you could even put an ability in that fires when you hit the switch on your power supply.

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • MagiknightMagiknight Member CommonPosts: 782
    I hate posts like the one the OP made. There are DOZENS of MMOS with huge numbers of skills. One comes along that DARES to change a SMALL thing and BAM.
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    I hate posts like the one the OP made. There are DOZENS of MMOS with huge numbers of skills. One comes along that DARES to change a SMALL thing and BAM.

    No it's the new norm, and it didn't start with ESO. I'm fine with innovation, but this is basically just restricting choices with a move toward FPS reactions and memory games. Ability bloat is a real thing, but the overreaction into the new Call of Duty MMORPG ui is just terrible IMO.

    The option to display your abilities on a toolbar is apparently too baroque for these awesome new games.

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • mithrillionmithrillion Member Posts: 37
    Have you played DotA, or LoL? Good luck trying to convince people that these games are easier to play than your four-hotbar monstrosity that WoW has become.
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by mithrillion
    Have you played DotA, or LoL? Good luck trying to convince people that these games are easier to play than your four-hotbar monstrosity that WoW has become.

    I don't find Battlefield. LoL or any other action game Ui to be easy to play as you suggest. I think those are great UIs for those games, but MMORPGs are much more expansive experiences that have a different need for what the interface should do. The UI in MMORPGs is becoming a combat-only, slimmed down control that caters to one style of play.

     

     

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • RattenmannRattenmann Member UncommonPosts: 613
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by StanlyStanko
    RPGs are getting dumbed down just like people

    I see it more like limiting the number of skills you can use so it's harder for you to combine them to get the best thing for the different situations. Not just ESO, but other games which limit your bars as well.

    Anf this makes sence... for a MOBA game. Not for a MMO. Not at all.

     

    This does lead to people simply reading up on zones, so they can adjust accordingly. Or they venture in and die, because they picked the wrong skill set. Id much rather venture in and use my personal skill to hit the right buttons right away. If i suddenly see the need for spell xy, i want to be able to cast that and not die and come back later with it "learned".

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    I should also add that I think the old tab/target 8 toolbarsx16 abilities per bar is not good either. I just would like to have the ability to choose between more abilities visible on a bar from time to time. The problem for me is specifically too few buttons on the bar, not a dodge or heavy attack etc.
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,066
    Originally posted by Rattenmann
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by StanlyStanko
    RPGs are getting dumbed down just like people

    I see it more like limiting the number of skills you can use so it's harder for you to combine them to get the best thing for the different situations. Not just ESO, but other games which limit your bars as well.

    Anf this makes sence... for a MOBA game. Not for a MMO. Not at all.

     

    This does lead to people simply reading up on zones, so they can adjust accordingly. Or they venture in and die, because they picked the wrong skill set. Id much rather venture in and use my personal skill to hit the right buttons right away. If i suddenly see the need for spell xy, i want to be able to cast that and not die and come back later with it "learned".

    A few interesting things.

    In a genre filled with the need to get better gear to do certain areas (sometime even potions or special defenses against certain types of mobs/damage) and where players will bash other players for not knowing a dungeon/raid even if it is their first time, the complaint about fewer skills is that "people simple reading up on zones"?

    Exactly what spell xy is so specific that it is required for a certain zone but everyone can have it?

    More, many of these games with low number of skills allow skill swapping on the fly if out of combat.

    Not only that, each individual skill generally can do more than one thing,

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • kinkyJalepenokinkyJalepeno Member UncommonPosts: 1,044
    Originally posted by dbgager
    What??? Only 5 buttons on the ability bar. Don't understand why they implemented this.

    Stopped reading at the end since your post was so fukin short and meaningless..

    Anyway its 6 - L2P

    12 If you have weap swap

     

  • GravehillGravehill Member Posts: 95
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    Two Words: Game Console

    FFXIV is on console and it gives you 16 abilities readily available on a controller without switching action bars. The actual reason that ESO has such a limited action bar is because they wanted each character to be more unique. The more restrictions on the abilities you can bring into combat, the more you are set apart from other players.

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