The problem is, even if you ignore every bug, the game is dull and uninspired. It is a bland MMO made set in Tamriel, instead of an Elder Scrolls game played online.
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Originally posted by DamonVile Even if it's not fixed complaining here is really no better than crying on some strangers shoulder. It's not like anyone at ESO ever reads all this non-sense.
Well thank you captain obvious. I think everyone knows that. People who post here does so in order to discuss among themselves.
The problem isnt just the gold spammers or even the bugs. The game is flawed in its design, flawed to the point where it will require way too much work and really a miracle to turn around.
I see a lot of people defending the game as though its some how tied to their self esteem. That needs to stop. Zenimax isnt experienced in this particular genre, and it shows. The name (Elder scrolls) might have gotten a lot of people to purchase, but the design isnt there where they will stay.
^^This^^ and everyone is entitled to their own opinion about the game, after all they did pay for the game to play it. This always happens when an mmo comes out and people have hyped themselves for it to be a good game and it ends up not being what's expected. There are also always people there to defend the flaws of a game and say just give it time and be patient and bash anyone with criticism about it, so emotionally invested, it's very odd.
Usually when a turd of a game plops out and most folks hate it, there are still some who genuinely love the thing and will do so for years.
Which is not to say you're wrong. I think many game apologists are doing just as you say.
But theres always a few people who genuinely do love a turd and will never see why it is what it is.
I know a guy who to this day just doesn't see why all his friends left SWTOR. He still thinks its the greatest MMO to ever launch, and for him at least, he's right.
That's true as well..There will always be those people trying to polish that turd til it goes free to play, then eeks along for years with barely and update, then they shut down the servers heh.
Originally posted by DamonVile Even if it's not fixed complaining here is really no better than crying on some strangers shoulder. It's not like anyone at ESO ever reads all this non-sense.
Well thank you captain obvious. I think everyone knows that. People who post here does so in order to discuss among themselves.
Yeas because discussion is what these threads are trying to promote.
The problem isnt just the gold spammers or even the bugs. The game is flawed in its design, flawed to the point where it will require way too much work and really a miracle to turn around.
I see a lot of people defending the game as though its some how tied to their self esteem. That needs to stop. Zenimax isnt experienced in this particular genre, and it shows. The name (Elder scrolls) might have gotten a lot of people to purchase, but the design isnt there where they will stay.
The only way i can see them really fixing the game is to pull it and admit they screwed up. The game design is way to deep in the code to fix with patching. Sure some things will get better but the game design will still be the same.
Originally posted by dbgager Zenimax seems to be very proactive. The issues with Bots, Gold Spammers, Bugs will be resolved. Give the game a little time to mature. It can only get better. We are already to patch 5 ..In what ...3 weeks.
Agreed...I can't imagine what went into creating this MMO - lots of content and area to cover. I can wait...to me it's well worth it. I actually feel more immersed in this MMO then I have since Wrath in WoW. Patience folks, the bugs will get squashed.
But why should people keep playing/paying in the meantime?
Better for people to not subscribe and save the $15/mo while Zenimax gets their game together, in 6 months, and then maybe sub again.
Having a sub these days makes people expect more, from a game and a company.
If a company is not doing enough to earn that sub, people shouldn't pay it until they do.
(Let alone pay $60 for the box).
These games are super complex. This game was nearly 40 GB installed. There is no such thing as a bug free game when it is released. Especially not an MMO.
making a car is also super complex yet when i buy one i expect working one.
Making a airplane is aslo super complex yet when i buy one i expect fully working one.
If they arent capable of delivering semi-working product they shouldnt make games. End of story.
Originally posted by dbgager Sorry I should say people need to be patient..Complaining is good as long as it is done in a constructive way it makes them aware of where issues exist.
You made the mistake of assuming criticism of this game is mostly issued towards things that could be fixed such as bugs, spammers, and the like.
There have been plenty of constructive complaints people have given towards this game, as happens with most every game in existence. Not everyone is going to enjoy every experience and sometimes the experience offered just is not that good.
I am unsure what you are trying to accomplish from this thread other than deflecting and pigeon holing criticism towards this product with a simple "Calm down I know all this will be fixed! Ok?" This does nothing to address any current problems people perceive in this game nor does it do anything but service the fans of the game who do not share such perceptions.
You show a clear lack of understanding when it comes to topics such as this. Your views are too narrowed with "they either enjoy it or they don't" as if someone can enjoy and not enjoy a product simultaneously. Nothing is as black and white as your posts seem to assume.
The problem isnt just the gold spammers or even the bugs. The game is flawed in its design, flawed to the point where it will require way too much work and really a miracle to turn around.
I see a lot of people defending the game as though its some how tied to their self esteem. That needs to stop. Zenimax isnt experienced in this particular genre, and it shows. The name (Elder scrolls) might have gotten a lot of people to purchase, but the design isnt there where they will stay.
I like the design and it much better than anything I have played in the last 10 years. I actually feel like playing this game for the story and my guild, sorry you feel like people are basing this game on themselves, but it seems like people who have some kind of hate for a game are trying to boost their self esteem by attacking people who actually like the game, kind of reverse of what you are trying to say.
Originally posted by DamonVile Even if it's not fixed complaining here is really no better than crying on some strangers shoulder. It's not like anyone at ESO ever reads all this non-sense.
This is a post I would expect from someone who does not regular use a forum to express their own opinions. By now you understand the point of going to a forum such as this and posting your thoughts on the products this site covers. You understand that differing opinions will take place with people who love, like, dislike, and hate a product spending time to explain their reasons here.
People will often find someplace to share their experiences with others. Whether that forum be a water cooler, library, telephone, bar, and/or this website the purpose of doing this type of activity should be clear to a person who regularly uses such forums to express themselves.
Honestly, your post comes off as incredibly jaded towards other users of this forum. As if your spirit has been broken and you now feel people here no longer desire to engage in meaningful discussion.
Op I do understand yet who are you? Do you speak for Zenimax or Bethesda? Why would anyone put faith in what you say? You have no weight what so ever. You can say it will never be fixed and it equals the same.
I just logged in did another solo dungeon (the one with robots) about lvl 5 and up inside. Was all clear till I got to the achievement NPC. What bothers me is I cant kill it fast enough to get it..to get anything. This is not what I paid for.
Now I unlike most EXPECT something for my money. Do you read the fine print or just click "I agree"? If no then you should say nothing. It protect them and us. You have rights. This is not never was launched a beta. Nor did they ever tell you ..you can expect bots, gold spam because every other mmo that came before had them. its NOT my job to block them stop them. Its theres. Again there is nothing saying you must you can expect it to take time. This is 2014 and YOU new I new bots come on and gold spam. Yet it took some 3rd party mod to block most gold spam. 4 weeks later still going strong.
Last night there were 18 posts and 68 gold spam. That was from top to bottom. So many were pissed. For me 5 more days of free play.
You seem to be under the impression it takes weeks, months to ban to block..it does not. They lack the support. Again not my fault or problem. These bots and gold spammers are not stealing from me nor will I lose anything ESO will. Dont think ESO is some how making money off bots. Most do not pay to play. There are other ways around this. This is a billion dollar buz.. so they are VERY good at what they do.
Anyway. You want to wait great. You want to quit great. Yet don't make fun of those that choose not to keep playing with this going on that for me does in fact hinder my playing.
I read here what I also wanted to add. I want people to know just what they can expect when they go in. Its not random its EVERYWHERE. So far every dungeon has bots. Do you know how many there are? Yes as you get higher up you dont see them getting nodes yet go to that solo dungeon. If you made it to 50 you know I am telling the truth. This should not be this bad. They are either just taking the money or dont have the man power to stop it YET.
Its going to be longer then another week or month. Its just text its not personal so relax.
Originally posted by dbgager Zenimax seems to be very proactive. The issues with Bots, Gold Spammers, Bugs will be resolved. Give the game a little time to mature. It can only get better. We are already to patch 5 ..In what ...3 weeks.
I will be patient. I will try it when the price drops, the sub drops, or free trials, or even better all 3 rolled into one.
I will not be patient and hand them money until it gets better.
For all the same reasons I don't preorder or by founders packs or any other blind lemming follower foolishness.
Originally posted by dbgager Zenimax seems to be very proactive. The issues with Bots, Gold Spammers, Bugs will be resolved. Give the game a little time to mature. It can only get better. We are already to patch 5 ..In what ...3 weeks.
First off not trying to be a troll.
I am giving them another month myself.
That being said.
You do realize 3 of those 5 patches were three failed attempts to fix the duping bug, that is still in game.
I however do agree, come end of month when a lot of people do not renew, a ton of the server load issues will be " fixed " .
As for the ton of bugs they are what they are and nobody knows if and or when most of them will ever be addressed.
To be fair there are still bugs in LOTRO, SWTOR, EQ, and WoW that I reported in their betas.
My point is, people have a right to expect something better.
I am so sick of this industry being given a free pass, just because they are drug dealers dealing that endorphin high to video game addicts.
If anything else you own released as buggy and broken as most video games do you would be screaming holy hell demanding immediate fixed and compensation for the inconvenience. I have seen you do it on cell phones, ipads, game consoles, food, cars, tvs, clothes, the list goes on and on.
But with video games you jump to defend them attacking anyone who even suggests it is not right.
Game developers steal billions in craptastic pieces of dog poop just because they hype it dishonestly and stick it in a pretty wrapper, and most of us just eat it up and beg for more.
Do we get what we deserve? Hell yes we do.
Do we deserve what we get? Hell no we don't.
When we shell out $60, $90, $150, $300 for a video game, we deserve a fucking masterpiece.
We deserve a product that has been stressed forward backwards and sideways over and over for stability and a reasonable playability.
These game developers lie their butts off, they whine about how hard it is, and how expensive it is. Meanwhile they sit back raking in $3, $5, even $10 million a MONTH off our addiction.
I have zero freakin sympathy for them. So fucking what it it costs them another million to keep a game in development that extra month to get it stable.
I do not give a shit about what it costs them, because I know you get what you pay for, if they pay for a stable quality game, they we the player will play it longer thereby paying them more for it.
Originally posted by dbgager Zenimax seems to be very proactive. The issues with Bots, Gold Spammers, Bugs will be resolved. Give the game a little time to mature. It can only get better. We are already to patch 5 ..In what ...3 weeks.
People will stop complaining when they release the game without any game breaking bugs. If they want to get rid of the subscription while they do that to show their customers that they are a decent company then I bet people will stay. Until then they will lose hundreds or even thousands of players every day.
Don't like the game? Don't like bugs in a game? Don't play it, move on. Let those who like the game, enjoy it and play it. So many cry babies out there, is amazing.
Originally posted by HATUEY Don't like the game? Don't like bugs in a game? Don't play it, move on. Let those who like the game, enjoy it and play it. So many cry babies out there, is amazing.
It's not that straightforward, although I do agree that some people's reactions are pretty bad.
I've had to give up playing the game, with a complaint below. Does that make me a cry baby?
I have struggled through the leveling process to 47, and this is where I've stopped. Why 47? No specific reason, it could have been 42, 45, 37 etc
All through this process has been the lag.
This is my standard experience with tackling a mob:- I would get within spell range, say 20 metres, and fire off Vampire's Bane - it's an instant cast fireball spell. Nothing would immediately happen.
I would then run toward the mob to within close melee range and stand there. a second or so later that instant cast fireball spell would come past me and hit the mob. I was casting from distance then running to the mob before the system activated this instant cast spell.
In a game where blocking, interrupting and dodging are really important, this degree of lag made effective game play impossible.
As for pvp - it was several times worse and I had to give up a lot earlier in the game.
Now location, connection, pc, porting, firewall, etc.
I play Aion and Tera on US servers with no problems. Both are fast reaction games and I have been playing for years. I have checked the firewall and port settings for eso over and over. I have removed all add-ons and tried - no difference.
I am in the UK playing on the eu server - this for me is the problem. Why the eu server isn't in the eu I do not know. And why the connection/sever lag, whatever you want to call it, is so bad?
So that's it. Pvp was a none starter due to this, pve simply wasn't enjoyable. I have had to quit due to pure frustration. Now if that categorizes me as a cry baby so be it.
I am not sure if there are plans to relocate the eu server. To me, that cannot come soon enough. But there is of course the real possibility that by then my interest will have moved on completely.
But why should people keep playing/paying in the meantime?
Better for people to not subscribe and save the $15/mo while Zenimax gets their game together, in 6 months, and then maybe sub again.
Having a sub these days makes people expect more, from a game and a company.
If a company is not doing enough to earn that sub, people shouldn't pay it until they do.
(Let alone pay $60 for the box).
These games are super complex. This game was nearly 40 GB installed. There is no such thing as a bug free game when it is released. Especially not an MMO.
making a car is also super complex yet when i buy one i expect working one.
Making a airplane is aslo super complex yet when i buy one i expect fully working one.
If they arent capable of delivering semi-working product they shouldnt make games. End of story.
Wow ... ! you can afford an airplane ?
If you catch a flight though you expect it to get there - in one piece. I know you know dbgager was simply making a point however and was trying to derail the logic behind it. Why should game developers be given a free pass to deliver an unfinished products.
Yes I am sure that changes will be made; and I am sure that many will not wait around to find out. Especially as Zenimax seem to be still working on basic design; I mean what sort of balance testing can they have done if they are now planning to nerf aoe into oblivion!
Originally posted by dbgager Zenimax seems to be very proactive. The issues with Bots, Gold Spammers, Bugs will be resolved. Give the game a little time to mature. It can only get better. We are already to patch 5 ..In what ...3 weeks.
'Proactive' would imply that Zenimax actually prevented problems before they impacted the game. Right now, Zenimax is scrambling to do whatever they can to try to minimize the mess they have on their hands. That my friend is 'reactive'.
Even Zenimax admitted that 85% of their support resources are being consumed with dealing with bots, gold sellers, etc. There's definitely nothing proactive about that.
Originally posted by angzt let them cry, in the most cases it's all they have. worked on their mommy, so they try it again. seems valid. mommy does not make computer games tho, pitty.
Amen man.. Soon they will be gone like the turd I flushed away this morning. Off to be someone else's problem.
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At this point it doesn't matter - ESO has derailed. I felt like a lone wolf howling in the twilight before launch, but I see the pack has heard me.
Now I get to sit back and enjoy reading all the threads and professional reviewers explain to everyone what all the howling was about.
Whichever animal call is favoured by people on either side of the fence, it usually gets drowned-out by all the bleating...
Well thank you captain obvious. I think everyone knows that. People who post here does so in order to discuss among themselves.
That's true as well..There will always be those people trying to polish that turd til it goes free to play, then eeks along for years with barely and update, then they shut down the servers heh.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Yeas because discussion is what these threads are trying to promote.
That thread title made me think of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc
The only way i can see them really fixing the game is to pull it and admit they screwed up. The game design is way to deep in the code to fix with patching. Sure some things will get better but the game design will still be the same.
Agreed...I can't imagine what went into creating this MMO - lots of content and area to cover. I can wait...to me it's well worth it. I actually feel more immersed in this MMO then I have since Wrath in WoW. Patience folks, the bugs will get squashed.
Wow ... ! you can afford an airplane ?
You made the mistake of assuming criticism of this game is mostly issued towards things that could be fixed such as bugs, spammers, and the like.
There have been plenty of constructive complaints people have given towards this game, as happens with most every game in existence. Not everyone is going to enjoy every experience and sometimes the experience offered just is not that good.
I am unsure what you are trying to accomplish from this thread other than deflecting and pigeon holing criticism towards this product with a simple "Calm down I know all this will be fixed! Ok?" This does nothing to address any current problems people perceive in this game nor does it do anything but service the fans of the game who do not share such perceptions.
You show a clear lack of understanding when it comes to topics such as this. Your views are too narrowed with "they either enjoy it or they don't" as if someone can enjoy and not enjoy a product simultaneously. Nothing is as black and white as your posts seem to assume.
I like the design and it much better than anything I have played in the last 10 years. I actually feel like playing this game for the story and my guild, sorry you feel like people are basing this game on themselves, but it seems like people who have some kind of hate for a game are trying to boost their self esteem by attacking people who actually like the game, kind of reverse of what you are trying to say.
This is a post I would expect from someone who does not regular use a forum to express their own opinions. By now you understand the point of going to a forum such as this and posting your thoughts on the products this site covers. You understand that differing opinions will take place with people who love, like, dislike, and hate a product spending time to explain their reasons here.
People will often find someplace to share their experiences with others. Whether that forum be a water cooler, library, telephone, bar, and/or this website the purpose of doing this type of activity should be clear to a person who regularly uses such forums to express themselves.
Honestly, your post comes off as incredibly jaded towards other users of this forum. As if your spirit has been broken and you now feel people here no longer desire to engage in meaningful discussion.
let them cry, in the most cases it's all they have.
worked on their mommy, so they try it again. seems valid. mommy does not make computer games tho, pitty.
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
Op I do understand yet who are you? Do you speak for Zenimax or Bethesda? Why would anyone put faith in what you say? You have no weight what so ever. You can say it will never be fixed and it equals the same.
I just logged in did another solo dungeon (the one with robots) about lvl 5 and up inside. Was all clear till I got to the achievement NPC. What bothers me is I cant kill it fast enough to get it..to get anything. This is not what I paid for.
Now I unlike most EXPECT something for my money. Do you read the fine print or just click "I agree"? If no then you should say nothing. It protect them and us. You have rights. This is not never was launched a beta. Nor did they ever tell you ..you can expect bots, gold spam because every other mmo that came before had them. its NOT my job to block them stop them. Its theres. Again there is nothing saying you must you can expect it to take time. This is 2014 and YOU new I new bots come on and gold spam. Yet it took some 3rd party mod to block most gold spam. 4 weeks later still going strong.
Last night there were 18 posts and 68 gold spam. That was from top to bottom. So many were pissed. For me 5 more days of free play.
You seem to be under the impression it takes weeks, months to ban to block..it does not. They lack the support. Again not my fault or problem. These bots and gold spammers are not stealing from me nor will I lose anything ESO will. Dont think ESO is some how making money off bots. Most do not pay to play. There are other ways around this. This is a billion dollar buz.. so they are VERY good at what they do.
Anyway. You want to wait great. You want to quit great. Yet don't make fun of those that choose not to keep playing with this going on that for me does in fact hinder my playing.
I read here what I also wanted to add. I want people to know just what they can expect when they go in. Its not random its EVERYWHERE. So far every dungeon has bots. Do you know how many there are? Yes as you get higher up you dont see them getting nodes yet go to that solo dungeon. If you made it to 50 you know I am telling the truth. This should not be this bad. They are either just taking the money or dont have the man power to stop it YET.
Its going to be longer then another week or month. Its just text its not personal so relax.
I always enjoy when people say such silly things as this. Let us go through the checklist of assumptions that have taken place.
Lumped people into a faceless mob? [x] Check. (Use of the term "them")
Created a false image of insecurity for this mob? [x] Check. (All they have is crying apparently)
Faceless group of complainers labeled as spoiled? [x] Check. (Always got their way with "mommy")
Unfortunately I could not include the use of logic in this checklist as it did not apply to the quoted post.
I will be patient. I will try it when the price drops, the sub drops, or free trials, or even better all 3 rolled into one.
I will not be patient and hand them money until it gets better.
For all the same reasons I don't preorder or by founders packs or any other blind lemming follower foolishness.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
First off not trying to be a troll.
I am giving them another month myself.
That being said.
You do realize 3 of those 5 patches were three failed attempts to fix the duping bug, that is still in game.
I however do agree, come end of month when a lot of people do not renew, a ton of the server load issues will be " fixed " .
As for the ton of bugs they are what they are and nobody knows if and or when most of them will ever be addressed.
To be fair there are still bugs in LOTRO, SWTOR, EQ, and WoW that I reported in their betas.
My point is, people have a right to expect something better.
I am so sick of this industry being given a free pass, just because they are drug dealers dealing that endorphin high to video game addicts.
If anything else you own released as buggy and broken as most video games do you would be screaming holy hell demanding immediate fixed and compensation for the inconvenience. I have seen you do it on cell phones, ipads, game consoles, food, cars, tvs, clothes, the list goes on and on.
But with video games you jump to defend them attacking anyone who even suggests it is not right.
Game developers steal billions in craptastic pieces of dog poop just because they hype it dishonestly and stick it in a pretty wrapper, and most of us just eat it up and beg for more.
Do we get what we deserve? Hell yes we do.
Do we deserve what we get? Hell no we don't.
When we shell out $60, $90, $150, $300 for a video game, we deserve a fucking masterpiece.
We deserve a product that has been stressed forward backwards and sideways over and over for stability and a reasonable playability.
These game developers lie their butts off, they whine about how hard it is, and how expensive it is. Meanwhile they sit back raking in $3, $5, even $10 million a MONTH off our addiction.
I have zero freakin sympathy for them. So fucking what it it costs them another million to keep a game in development that extra month to get it stable.
I do not give a shit about what it costs them, because I know you get what you pay for, if they pay for a stable quality game, they we the player will play it longer thereby paying them more for it.
People will stop complaining when they release the game without any game breaking bugs. If they want to get rid of the subscription while they do that to show their customers that they are a decent company then I bet people will stay. Until then they will lose hundreds or even thousands of players every day.
It's not that straightforward, although I do agree that some people's reactions are pretty bad.
I've had to give up playing the game, with a complaint below. Does that make me a cry baby?
I have struggled through the leveling process to 47, and this is where I've stopped. Why 47? No specific reason, it could have been 42, 45, 37 etc
All through this process has been the lag.
This is my standard experience with tackling a mob:- I would get within spell range, say 20 metres, and fire off Vampire's Bane - it's an instant cast fireball spell. Nothing would immediately happen.
I would then run toward the mob to within close melee range and stand there. a second or so later that instant cast fireball spell would come past me and hit the mob. I was casting from distance then running to the mob before the system activated this instant cast spell.
In a game where blocking, interrupting and dodging are really important, this degree of lag made effective game play impossible.
As for pvp - it was several times worse and I had to give up a lot earlier in the game.
Now location, connection, pc, porting, firewall, etc.
I play Aion and Tera on US servers with no problems. Both are fast reaction games and I have been playing for years. I have checked the firewall and port settings for eso over and over. I have removed all add-ons and tried - no difference.
I am in the UK playing on the eu server - this for me is the problem. Why the eu server isn't in the eu I do not know. And why the connection/sever lag, whatever you want to call it, is so bad?
So that's it. Pvp was a none starter due to this, pve simply wasn't enjoyable. I have had to quit due to pure frustration. Now if that categorizes me as a cry baby so be it.
I am not sure if there are plans to relocate the eu server. To me, that cannot come soon enough. But there is of course the real possibility that by then my interest will have moved on completely.
If you catch a flight though you expect it to get there - in one piece. I know you know dbgager was simply making a point however and was trying to derail the logic behind it. Why should game developers be given a free pass to deliver an unfinished products.
Yes I am sure that changes will be made; and I am sure that many will not wait around to find out. Especially as Zenimax seem to be still working on basic design; I mean what sort of balance testing can they have done if they are now planning to nerf aoe into oblivion!
'Proactive' would imply that Zenimax actually prevented problems before they impacted the game. Right now, Zenimax is scrambling to do whatever they can to try to minimize the mess they have on their hands. That my friend is 'reactive'.
Even Zenimax admitted that 85% of their support resources are being consumed with dealing with bots, gold sellers, etc. There's definitely nothing proactive about that.
Amen man..
Soon they will be gone like the turd I flushed away this morning.
Off to be someone else's problem.