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Besides Bugs: what changes you believe will need to be made to make the Console version of ESO a sma
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
Besides the bug fixes
What sort of changes you believe are necessary for making ESO a smash hit long term for the Consoles ( PS4/Xbone) when it come out on them?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
Actually,.. i don't think it is possible to save ESO for the MMO market.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I think most people bought the game and subscribed for 2 moths cause its 150 levels.
so after 3 moths they must get new content or I will be leaving.
I am not interested in grinding to get through veteran levels just more content and dungeons.
thieving system,dark brother hood,vampire and warewolf skill lines-like skyrim.
taking my time not finished with the first 50 levels playing dark souls games but they said you pay full subscription and you don't have to buy expantions for the game you will get it for your sub. fee / we will see.
From my experience, in general terms atleast, console communties don't tend to be so multiplayer/online oriented and tend to abandon a game faster. Ofcourse, it's not for all games.
Long term, even pc mmo players have extremely hard to keep around with new quests, dungeons, raids, etc. And the important thing is, were's used to it.
Now, when you had a monthly subscription for 1 single game, which console players are not used to, the natural burn out of content, and the fact that pc mmo players are just used to thigns like graphical downgrades for performance, linear themepark mechanics, etc, console gamers, in general atleast, may not react to well.
But for them its like experiencing MMOs for first time. Remember when we first experienced THEMEPARK design. I don't like it as much now, but back then I loved it. Because it was a first. So would they also react like that?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
That's actually a great point. But, while the wonder of experiencing a big game like an mmorpg could be awesome for first time console players, i think the IP will hurt that sense of wonder.
Skyrim's best sales where on consoles (not counting digital), and, imo, many had their first taste of TES with it. That game also had a big, explorable, wonderfull world. ESO as to cut off those elements, to a great extent, since it's a themepark, so another possible reaction is gamers backlashing for the negatives i pointed out.
Also, i think major TES fans already know most of ESo features and how it plays, so they'll probably already have choosen to play on pc wheter or know what they're getting into. The backlash i speak will most likely come from console gamers that don't follow mmos or elder scrolls and their news.
But who knows. Maybe they'll love RVR for the big battles, for example, even if we've already seen it before. Time will tell, but that sub fee will factor in alot. That's for sure.
They just need to iron the bugs out.... thats all... When i told before release that they where releasing ESO on PC in a beta state, just so PC players could iron out the bugs, noboddy believed me, well, its true people... by now everyone needs to realise this...
Oh... and they need to find a way to shut up the negative PC players, that have been negative with any MMO to release since EQ... They give ESo an undeserved bad name.. most so called oldtimers overhere, that think quests are not content at all in an mmoRPG dont even realise that a large majorrity of players just loves good questing... and they enjoy playing a good mmoRPG like they enjoy reading a book...
There is not much wrong with the game (Except the bugs)
-Solo PvE Questing and story telling is as good as it gets..
-PvE instanced Dungeons are among the best ever, and while us oldtimers think them to easy, they might feel a little to hard for console people
-Craglorn will be a smash hit..
-they will adore PVP in Cyrodiill
-The class system is the best ever in any MMO released till today
And the game will only get better on consoles compared to the PC version
-The game is designed from the core to be played on controllers
-there will be no bots and cheeters on consoles
-Gold sellers will be easier to detect (ESO account connected with the console account which is then again connected to the hardware), and they can ban the whole PS4 or Xbox that was played on... making things very expensive for goldsellers
-The whole instancing thing, and hard to communicate with a divided community on mega servers, will be much less important since these players most of the time dont want to communicate,.... they love to play their single player game in a multiplayer world.
As i said before.... if you love playing an MMO with lots of story lore and quests, this is your game(also on consoles)
If not, stay away from it.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I agree with most of these comments. Playing it on PC atm but will be swapping to PS4 when it is released. The game is perfectly designed for console controllers, most of the bugs will have been found by the PC release and no bots to annoy people. So should be a better release for console.
There have been MMOs on consoles that have done well. In fact the PS league I'm in some of the most popular games are DCUO and FF XIV. Console players do like to communicate, they just like voice chat not type chat so they will need to have some system of voice chat for it to do well on console. I'm hopeful that they will incorporate the party voice chat system that is already available with PS4 games and just expand the party chat from 8 to 12 players. They have party chat available for FF so it should be possible to have it available for ESO as well. You can connect a keyboard to the PS4 so people can do type chatting if required just wont be popular with console players to only offer type chat imo.
I am enjoying playing the game but too lazy to hook up a gamepad but I can definitely see it being easier for me to play the game using a controller rather than keyboard and mouse. Not really used to keyboard and mouse controls except for strategy games so still feels weird to me.
Thats a good point.
So check this out.
What if Zeni removed Levels from the Console version design.
Make the world as little segregated as possible. So allow people on the console to Explore the whole world from start. Do all quest as they discover them along the way. Like a typical Elder Scrolls game really.
For progression: (PLEASE READ BEFORE BASHING ME HERE FOR SUGGESTING LEVEL REMOVAL)
*Skill Progression- same as current. But more advanced. More skills to discover. And more advances of those skills.
*Gear Progression- earn better gear as you discover them or craft them.
*Reputation Progression - Earn Rep from groups and story factions. Unlock skill lines, and gear, and other fancy stuff.
*PvP Progression - Ranks in PvP with special skills unlocked from PvP. Special Gear, special fancy things. and also Commander/Squad Leader tactical abilities unlocked that set large scale field effects.
*Crafting Progression - With Special collection mechanics or locations of getting mats. With timed decay mechanics and skill model collections for crafters to make any model they have discovered, but with the certain stats that are chosen.
*PvE Story Progression- Story progression for PvE with deep interesting story and deep story pathing. Layer this with Events.
*Dungeon Progression - have a deep progression system for Dungeons that take time for each dungeon. Pathing. and attunement mechanics as well.
*Raid Progression - Raid dungeons and Events with progression mechanics to unlock more over time.
*Social Progression - Guild Advancement, Advancement in a political structure that much be maintained. Think of this as similar to the old Honor system in vanilla WoW PvP, but for Social PvE and PvP. You gain Political points and it goes up and down. Gain perks and specials.
These are far easier changes, that only take away a few UI elements and numbers. nothing here is hard to make which I suggested above.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Not sure why you think the game needs changes for it to do well on console. With bug fixes, controller and voice chat the game as is will work on console imo. I would rather see ZOS focus on updates for everyone rather than putting resources on these changes which seem for the most part to be cosmetic rather than fundamental.
FYI I think ZOS already plans on doing the first point for everyone and the raids development seems to be part of the plan with Craglorn which should be good. At least that was what I understood from the AMA on reddit.
With the exception of "more skills at a time"(save that for future expansions) this pretty much nails it.
Was that your whole intention when you created this thread ? So that you could propose a fundamental redesign of the game "to make it better for consoles" ?
Not going to happen.
Not. Going. To. Happen.
There's no chance in hell that ZOS will change anything in the game design before the console launch. That would be suicidal, because it would open-up the possibility of a whole raft of bugs and glitches that would have had minimal time in testing. Not even ZOS could be that dumb.
Yeah I am sure almost no one falls into that set up. Very few people who can afford a 500 dollar play station, and a 60 dollar game with 15 a month, is gonna have their first mmorpg experience with eso for ps4. This isnt the first mmorpg for consoles. Nor do i think that the majority of people, who have a ps4 or xbox one have only that. The majority of people have a laptop/tablet or phone, and there are 100s if not 1000s of mmorpgs, that can be played on those.
For ESO to be successful on some one who wants a console game, it wont need anything else but to remove the 15 dollars a month, and add voice chat. It is already casual, and single player friendly. It is easy to figure out how to play it, there is no learning curve. My 7 year old could be a master of ESO, in a matter of hours. There is no reading, so that wont be a issue. If you want to see if console players stick to a mmo, go look at dust.
They are also going to have to fix the graphics, considering a top end 290x, or 780ti is required to max this game a 60fps 1080 at all times. That means a play station will be lucky to get 30 fps, especially since the hero engine I am sure wasent tweaked for the ps4 or xbox one. So some one who spent 500 bucks, or so on one of these consoles, is gonna get into this game. It is gonna more then likely run at 720, and still not get 60fps, and skip. So with these bad graphics compared to what else you can play on the ps4, they may just quit based on that. I know I always get told graphics dont mean anything in a mmorpg, but I am sure that no one buys a ps4 or xbox one, and expects graphics they would see on a ps3 or xbox.
I know I didnt pay money for a water cooled 290x to see that i get the same results as a 7970. I am sorry but the graphics and the animations on this game are not all that good. Yes it has fancy sun glare, and the textures are alright. But i mean the reflections are terrible huge jagged nonsense, the npcs when they talk look horrible. The animations in all areas look worse than most other games.
So i think the major thing they should focus on are fixing the graphics, if they want it to be a long lasting game on the console.
Sorry man I don't see eso becoming a hit whatever they do.
Plus I don't think zenimax was going for a hit game.
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it for what it is, a nice game for a month or two.
Better PVP. The AVA is fun but I would also like to do smaller instanced battlegrounds. The zerg gets old after a while and small instanced battlegrounds offers quick action for someone who does not have the time to run around Cyrodiil all day. Also I feel gimped not being vr10 in Cyrodiil which for normal people will take quite a while to get to.
I know they said they were not adding dueling but I think they should reconsider because it is a great way to test builds. And speaking of builds they should lower the cost of re-specializing, I have spent all of the gold I have gotten on this. I really don't know how an ability will synergize with my build until I use it and morph it, and I like to try new weapons and combos. Adding duel spec would be nice to have a pvp and pve build since some morphs are better for one and not the other.
This, plus:
Because it makes the game feel more open and freeform like most console Elder Scrolls fans are use to. Currently the ESO feels more like Kingdom of Alamar Reckoning or whatever you spell it. Feels very restricted and guided. The world isn't free form exploration like Elder Scrolls games normally are.
removing the levels would be a start, since players would be able to explore the full world and go wherever they want to journey to. Currently the game is like World of Warcraft in this area. I.E you level 40 in Guild Wars 2, very skilled at combat and playing, yet if you decide to explore the world you would be limited to playing in the 1-40 zones of the world. If you venture outside the zones that are level 1-40 you die from mobs hitting too hard. So you can't play and explore the level 50-max level zones without a certain number on your avatar picture.
thats very restrictive compared to Elder Scrolls games that console gamers are use to.
a change in that area could be a big improvement.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
game would be huge right now as buy to play, it would sell a couple million copies on ps4 and xb1 easily. Not as a sub game though.
I disagree with most of your points here. If strictly viewed in the context of console MMOs, it may hold some weight. The only player in this brand of console MMO is FFXIV, and that game has less content but far more polish.
This game does alot that is different to be different. Different does not mean better. I applaud them for trying, but I can't think of a single mechanic or system where this game does it better than the ones that have come before.
Sub fee.
Console players are not happy paying sub fees for games. They're fine paying for DLC all day long (including day 1 dlc), they're fork over the cash so that they can watch netflix which they already pay for, but they hate sub fees on games.
Otherwise, console players are generally not as rigid as MMO players. They'll play various types and styles of RPG and they don't whine like we do about every little thing (they're usually too busy yelling at each other about which console is "better" but that's another thread). A console player who plays RPGs will have linear, open world, Eastern, Western, and various genres of RPG's in their library. I don't think I've ever heard a console player say, "this game doesn't have OWPvP, FAIL!"
I think besides the sub fee, console RPG players will love it. It has more content than they typically get (MMO players tend to forget that $60 in the console world buys you 6-8 hours of entertainment on average with only a small handful of titles giving you 100+ hours during a console's entire lifespan). It's something that's often overlooked because MMO players are the type of people who will play a game for 200 hours and then proclaim that it sucks.
A console gamer will play uncharted for 7 hours and tell the whole world that it's the best game they've ever played in their life (and the Uncharted series really is quite excellent if you haven't played it).
While some of your ideas are cool, you can't simply alter the games basic formula that much. Would i prefer no levels and fully seamless pve? Sure, but it's not happening.
In the end, what i think will happen will be the clash of Skyrim vs ESO from the console community. Like i said, TES and MMO fans already know how ESO is, specially after all the reviews. If they want to play it, they've either bought the PC version or will definitely buy the console version. People who hate, hate it.
Unfortunatly, the "majority" will be the console players that will suffer that clash, as they might expect a Skyrim-ish experience. Combine that with the sub fee, and i just don't see it lasting longer on consoles compared to PC at all. Sales will be another thing. I do wonder how many it'll sell.