DECLARATION: Over the past decade the ideological advancement of MMOs has naturally evolved to such a distance that the actual content delivered in released MMOs is not only substantially inferior to what we are expecting, but actually insulting in the capacity that we are made to condescend to them, constrain ourselves for a brief time into the limited little game world presented to us, and attempt to convince ourselves that this is what we want.
I DEMAND:
That a development team respond to the growing unrest in the community by providing players with a satisfying, seamless virtual world that provides a living, active society in which we as virtual characters can reside as citizens and residents
That such a game offer the player the opportunity to substantially impact the environment and world, in such a way that if the game is to have multiple servers, the degree of difference between them will be wide and unpredictable, given that individual people making conscious decisions at specific moments in time brought major change to the game world around them
That rather than a domination by NPCs, the factional leadership is to be populated by players themselves, who organize their faction, coordinate, lead it to war, conduct it in peace, etc
That rather than providing the players with fixed cities and environments, cities are able to be constructed and destroyed; environments reaped and burned
That players not be meaningless "heroes" whose impact upon the world is functionally minimal to the degree that if the players never entered the game, the entire thing would look exactly the same and have suffered no change
IF NOT FOR THESE THINGS, the genre will continue to stagnate, as it has done for the past 10 years, an embarrassment to us all, an active insult.
They have a game that describes just that. Its called Life. Its a huge pay to win though which kinda sucks though.
It might help if the OP learned the difference between something failing and him not liking it.
For real.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
The constant hackneyed replies that what I am looking for is life are evidently false. If I was looking for life, I would not be desiring to play a game. And if what I am looking for is not life but a game, but the game which I can clearly envision and see is wrong, then it must mean that the thing which I am wanting is incorrect.
Therefore, the thing that I am wanting is something I do not have an idea about.
And thus the argument that I am looking for life is invalid, because I do have an idea of the game I am wanting.
I desire to play an MMORPG, a game in which I am roleplaying as if a citizen in a world. The concept of what this virtual world is has evolved in the past 10 years, but the actual worlds being made do not reflect this.
Has player housing been done before? Yes, I've seen it in Asheron's Call. Therefore, player housing is not impossible.
Is it possible to have a vast and seamless (or "seemingly seamless") world? I do not see why not. It is possible to fly from Winterspring to Ungoro without ever having to enter an instance.
Therefore, where is the unrealistic expectation?
Is it not the focus of the developers rather than what is possible which I am calling into question?
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar I think the amount of content in modern games on release is orders of magnitude greater than old older games release.
However player r expectations have risen even higher.
I do not believe players have realistic expectations of pretty much anything and mmo gamers are the winiest biggest self entitled group of whiner babies in the entire gaming universe
Get over yourselves. You are not entitiled to anything.
I strongly disagree with your opening line.
Let's take a trip back to 1997. EverQuest releases. Included AT LAUNCH is: 01) 3 HUGE continents (Antonica, Faydwer, and Odus along with 2 HUGE sea zones). 02) 12 Unique Races. (Barbarian, Dwarf, Halfling, Half-Elf, High Elf, Wood Elf, Dark Elf, Troll, Ogre, Erudite, Gnome, Human). 03) 15 Unique Classes (Bard, Berserker, Cleric, Druid, Enchanter, Magician, Monk, Necromancer, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Shadow Knight, Shaman, Warrior, Wizard). 04) LOADS of dungeons throughout the game, not just at endgame. 05) LOADS of zones to adventure in. 06) Truly EPIC quests for each individual class that took months/years to complete. 07) A deep and meaningful crafting system. 08) LOTS of weapons and armors. 09) LOTS of varying monsters. 10) No in-game map at all. 11) LOADS of factions that reacted to player choices. This is just the tip of that iceberg. Compare this small list to what gets released these days. They pale in comparison.
Now, let's take a trip back to 2004, when City of Heroes (another MMORPG I had a great time playing) released. 01) Mostly instanced missions (quests) that leveled according to the size of the group. 02) The best physics I have yet to see in an MMO. 03) Real 3D flying. 04) A character creator that many players spent literally hours at a time with. Not as an impressive of a list as EQ's, but still features/mechanics not improved upon, let alone included.
UO, AC, DAoC, and other old MMOs had features/content no longer even thought about these days.
I do agree that the OP can "demand" whetever they wish. Won't make it happen, though. Developers/publishers are most interested in making a buck these days, instead of fun game experiences. Sure, some players have fun in today's MMOs, but there is a significant segment that does not.
What "we gamers" are "entitled to", is a game we want to play, IF (important word here) a developer/publisher wants our money. Otherwise, no point at all to the whole thing, is there?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
"You have some serious mental issues you may need to seek some help for. There are others who post things, but do not post them in the way you do. Out of every person who posts crazy shit in this forum, you have some of the craziest and scariest" -FarReach
The constant hackneyed replies that what I am looking for is life are evidently false. If I was looking for life, I would not be desiring to play a game. And if what I am looking for is not life but a game, but the game which I can clearly envision and see is wrong, then it must mean that the thing which I am wanting is incorrect.
Therefore, the thing that I am wanting is something I do not have an idea about.
And thus the argument that I am looking for life is invalid, because I do have an idea of the game I am wanting.
I desire to play an MMORPG, a game in which I am roleplaying as if a citizen in a world. The concept of what this virtual world is has evolved in the past 10 years, but the actual worlds being made do not reflect this.
Has player housing been done before? Yes, I've seen it in Asheron's Call. Therefore, player housing is not impossible.
Is it possible to have a vast and seamless (or "seemingly seamless") world? I do not see why not. It is possible to fly from Winterspring to Ungoro without ever having to enter an instance.
Therefore, where is the unrealistic expectation?
Is it not the focus of the developers rather than what is possible which I am calling into question?
Maybe if you had a life you wouldnt be looking for the same things for one in a game? Just a thought. lol
I do agree that the OP can "demand" whetever they wish. Won't make it happen, though. Developers/publishers are most interested in making a buck these days, instead of fun game experiences. Sure, some players have fun in today's MMOs, but there is a significant segment that does not.
1. First about devs wanting to make a buck these days - this was ALWAYS the case. Especially when it comes to MMOs which today cost a lot more than 15 years ago. So when you are looking at $60million+ investment - being able to recoup the cost is sort of a BIG DEAL.
Nobody is going to say - hey I'm gonna throw $100mil your way - do something fun and if it doesn't work out, no sweat.
2. A signficant segment? I'd love to see the data that shows this - first of all define "significant" - as in 10K players? that's nothing.
Even 100K players is not a significant segment out of all MMORPG players - as the total number of MMORPG players is estimated at 30+ million.
So 300K players is 1%, I'd argue that is not significant.
And in "todays MMOs" - there are SO many of them, maybe in today's western AAA MMOs - maybe true - but globally - I think the vast majority of MMO gamers have a game they like.
The idea that there is a "significant % of gamers" that are sitting there NOT playing anything I think is false.
If I'd never played firefall I would agree with that.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky I do agree that the OP can "demand" whetever they wish. Won't make it happen, though. Developers/publishers are most interested in making a buck these days, instead of fun game experiences. Sure, some players have fun in today's MMOs, but there is a significant segment that does not.
1. First about devs wanting to make a buck these days - this was ALWAYS the case. Especially when it comes to MMOs which today cost a lot more than 15 years ago. So when you are looking at $60million+ investment - being able to recoup the cost is sort of a BIG DEAL.Nobody is going to say - hey I'm gonna throw $100mil your way - do something fun and if it doesn't work out, no sweat. 2. A signficant segment? I'd love to see the data that shows this - first of all define "significant" - as in 10K players? that's nothing.Even 100K players is not a significant segment out of all MMORPG players - as the total number of MMORPG players is estimated at 30+ million.So 300K players is 1%, I'd argue that is not significant. And in "todays MMOs" - there are SO many of them, maybe in today's western AAA MMOs - maybe true - but globally - I think the vast majority of MMO gamers have a game they like.The idea that there is a "significant % of gamers" that are sitting there NOT playing anything I think is false.
1) You kinda missed the word I even italicized, "most." I never said, nor implied, that old MMORPGs were all about "philanthropy." The old games were breaking new ground and many of them thought, "What if we did this?" instead of "How much will this item bring in, in our cash shop?"
2) *I* am significant. At least in my eyes, I am, though many will disagree
Really, by "significant", I am talking about a playerbase that could make the publishers money if they were catered to. Of of course it would pale in comparison to the millions made by the new MMOs, but I believe (nothing to back this up) that money could still be made.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Eq did and still does have a lot of zones and races. Is each zone different content or is it the same content in a different place?
Regardless eq was the exception not the norm in many many different ways.
It capitalized on the trinity class raid and group focused game. The others at around the same time were not like that. They were more skill based less raid and group encouraged but but focused.
It was the exception. It also did very very well.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
"I DEMAND" made it extremely difficult for me to actually read your post and it took me a good half an hour before I relented after reading some of the responses (before actually reading your post).
I'm not trying to put you down, on the contrary, I wish you well as you're obviously passionate about MMO's and it's future.
It's possibly pointless me posting this but I feel that if you wish to be taken more seriously, it may be worthwhile reconsidering how you title your posts, especially if your hoping people within MMORPG development companies will converse with you to share their thoughts/observations on the industry, where it's headed and if your "DEMANDS" are realistic.
In the end I'm pleased to have read your post. Some (not all) of your ideas run parrell to mine. I've been writing a back story/novel for some time now, on a world based on my ideas of my ultimate MMORPG. It's been mapped, places and a number of main characters named, races, lands, economies, harvesting/farming regions, how people develop/progress, skills, traits etc etc.
One thing I've learn't is that everyones untimate MMORPG is different. Like you, I've been dissatisfied with what's currently being made (which is why I'm designing my own story (if you don't start somewhere nothing will ever happen)) and have not played any for over a year now. Like you, I hope to one day experience game that is worthy of my time investment.
"I DEMAND" made it extremely difficult for me to actually read your post and it took me a good half an hour before I relented after reading some of the responses (before actually reading your post).
I'm not trying to put you down, on the contrary, I wish you well as you're obviously passionate about MMO's and it's future.
It's possibly pointless me posting this but I feel that if you wish to be taken more seriously, it may be worthwhile reconsidering how you title your posts, especially if your hoping people within MMORPG development companies will converse with you to share their thoughts/observations on the industry, where it's headed and if your "DEMANDS" are realistic.
In the end I'm pleased to have read your post. Some (not all) of your ideas run parrell to mine. I've been writing a back story/novel for some time now, on a world based on my ideas of my ultimate MMORPG. It's been mapped, places and a number of main characters named, races, lands, economies, harvesting/farming regions, how people develop/progress, skills, traits etc etc.
One thing I've learn't is that everyones untimate MMORPG is different. Like you, I've been dissatisfied with what's currently being made (which is why I'm designing my own story (if you don't start somewhere nothing will ever happen)) and have not played any for over a year now. Like you, I hope to one day experience game that is worthy of my time investment.
People best react to conciseness and sensationalism. Saying I demand something in capital letters incites the emotions and provokes the mass to read.
"I DEMAND" made it extremely difficult for me to actually read your post and it took me a good half an hour before I relented after reading some of the responses (before actually reading your post).
I'm not trying to put you down, on the contrary, I wish you well as you're obviously passionate about MMO's and it's future.
It's possibly pointless me posting this but I feel that if you wish to be taken more seriously, it may be worthwhile reconsidering how you title your posts, especially if your hoping people within MMORPG development companies will converse with you to share their thoughts/observations on the industry, where it's headed and if your "DEMANDS" are realistic.
In the end I'm pleased to have read your post. Some (not all) of your ideas run parrell to mine. I've been writing a back story/novel for some time now, on a world based on my ideas of my ultimate MMORPG. It's been mapped, places and a number of main characters named, races, lands, economies, harvesting/farming regions, how people develop/progress, skills, traits etc etc.
One thing I've learn't is that everyones untimate MMORPG is different. Like you, I've been dissatisfied with what's currently being made (which is why I'm designing my own story (if you don't start somewhere nothing will ever happen)) and have not played any for over a year now. Like you, I hope to one day experience game that is worthy of my time investment.
People best react to conciseness and sensationalism. Saying I demand something in capital letters incites the emotions and provokes the mass to read.
"I DEMAND" made it extremely difficult for me to actually read your post and it took me a good half an hour before I relented after reading some of the responses (before actually reading your post).
I'm not trying to put you down, on the contrary, I wish you well as you're obviously passionate about MMO's and it's future.
It's possibly pointless me posting this but I feel that if you wish to be taken more seriously, it may be worthwhile reconsidering how you title your posts, especially if your hoping people within MMORPG development companies will converse with you to share their thoughts/observations on the industry, where it's headed and if your "DEMANDS" are realistic.
In the end I'm pleased to have read your post. Some (not all) of your ideas run parrell to mine. I've been writing a back story/novel for some time now, on a world based on my ideas of my ultimate MMORPG. It's been mapped, places and a number of main characters named, races, lands, economies, harvesting/farming regions, how people develop/progress, skills, traits etc etc.
One thing I've learn't is that everyones untimate MMORPG is different. Like you, I've been dissatisfied with what's currently being made (which is why I'm designing my own story (if you don't start somewhere nothing will ever happen)) and have not played any for over a year now. Like you, I hope to one day experience game that is worthy of my time investment.
People best react to conciseness and sensationalism. Saying I demand something in capital letters incites the emotions and provokes the mass to read.
Or to make fun of you for acting like a child.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar it may be an emotional response and it may provoke the biggest response but it will not provoke the best response.
Surely the minds of children will concern themselves with petty things, and people with something worthwhile to say will say the worthwhile thing. It doesn't matter to me which is which. I enjoy that many people share my ideas, and I'm not surprised how other people behave on the internet.
"I DEMAND" made it extremely difficult for me to actually read your post and it took me a good half an hour before I relented after reading some of the responses (before actually reading your post).
I'm not trying to put you down, on the contrary, I wish you well as you're obviously passionate about MMO's and it's future.
It's possibly pointless me posting this but I feel that if you wish to be taken more seriously, it may be worthwhile reconsidering how you title your posts, especially if your hoping people within MMORPG development companies will converse with you to share their thoughts/observations on the industry, where it's headed and if your "DEMANDS" are realistic.
In the end I'm pleased to have read your post. Some (not all) of your ideas run parrell to mine. I've been writing a back story/novel for some time now, on a world based on my ideas of my ultimate MMORPG. It's been mapped, places and a number of main characters named, races, lands, economies, harvesting/farming regions, how people develop/progress, skills, traits etc etc.
One thing I've learn't is that everyones untimate MMORPG is different. Like you, I've been dissatisfied with what's currently being made (which is why I'm designing my own story (if you don't start somewhere nothing will ever happen)) and have not played any for over a year now. Like you, I hope to one day experience game that is worthy of my time investment.
People best react to conciseness and sensationalism. Saying I demand something in capital letters incites the emotions and provokes the mass to read.
In general, I agree that the masses react to sensationalism, but are you targeting the masses or the ones developing the games, and do those people react the same way to sensationalism?
If you're targeting the masses then your post will just disappear into a sea of complaints. If you're targeting developers have you approached them in an impactful way? What makes your post stand out to make the ones that matter say "Hey, this is a good post" and actually think about your words?
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar I think the amount of content in modern games on release is orders of magnitude greater than old older games release.
However player r expectations have risen even higher.
I do not believe players have realistic expectations of pretty much anything and mmo gamers are the winiest biggest self entitled group of whiner babies in the entire gaming universe
Get over yourselves. You are not entitiled to anything.
I strongly disagree with your opening line.
Let's take a trip back to 1997. EverQuest releases. Included AT LAUNCH is: 01) 3 HUGE continents (Antonica, Faydwer, and Odus along with 2 HUGE sea zones). 02) 12 Unique Races. (Barbarian, Dwarf, Halfling, Half-Elf, High Elf, Wood Elf, Dark Elf, Troll, Ogre, Erudite, Gnome, Human). 03) 15 Unique Classes (Bard, Berserker, Cleric, Druid, Enchanter, Magician, Monk, Necromancer, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Shadow Knight, Shaman, Warrior, Wizard). 04) LOADS of dungeons throughout the game, not just at endgame. 05) LOADS of zones to adventure in. 06) Truly EPIC quests for each individual class that took months/years to complete. 07) A deep and meaningful crafting system. 08) LOTS of weapons and armors. 09) LOTS of varying monsters. 10) No in-game map at all. 11) LOADS of factions that reacted to player choices. This is just the tip of that iceberg. Compare this small list to what gets released these days. They pale in comparison.
Now, let's take a trip back to 2004, when City of Heroes (another MMORPG I had a great time playing) released. 01) Mostly instanced missions (quests) that leveled according to the size of the group. 02) The best physics I have yet to see in an MMO. 03) Real 3D flying. 04) A character creator that many players spent literally hours at a time with. Not as an impressive of a list as EQ's, but still features/mechanics not improved upon, let alone included.
UO, AC, DAoC, and other old MMOs had features/content no longer even thought about these days.
I do agree that the OP can "demand" whetever they wish. Won't make it happen, though. Developers/publishers are most interested in making a buck these days, instead of fun game experiences. Sure, some players have fun in today's MMOs, but there is a significant segment that does not.
What "we gamers" are "entitled to", is a game we want to play, IF (important word here) a developer/publisher wants our money. Otherwise, no point at all to the whole thing, is there?
Some minor nitpicks berzerker and epic quests were not there at release. I do however completely agree. I mean come on look at what EQ had at launch and what they did for expansions. I'm sorry but when EQ from 1997 has more classes, races, dungeons that are bigger and more of them, water you can actually swim in, larger groups (six people omg), more crafting, more items and a better itemization system (humanoids would drop the weapons they were wielding), more spells, more monsters, factions, starting locations, and then Kunark as the first expansion....
I look at SWTOR, ESO, Final Fantasy 14, and many other games and just shake my head. It's pathetic that EQ does so much more minus voice acting and graphics but it was from 1997. WTF? This isn't nostalgia either. Anyone could go on Zam and look at the actual content that was there and compare it.
I also agree 100% with the OP. I want virtual worlds in my MMORPGs or you don't get my money.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
"I DEMAND" made it extremely difficult for me to actually read your post and it took me a good half an hour before I relented after reading some of the responses (before actually reading your post).
I'm not trying to put you down, on the contrary, I wish you well as you're obviously passionate about MMO's and it's future.
It's possibly pointless me posting this but I feel that if you wish to be taken more seriously, it may be worthwhile reconsidering how you title your posts, especially if your hoping people within MMORPG development companies will converse with you to share their thoughts/observations on the industry, where it's headed and if your "DEMANDS" are realistic.
In the end I'm pleased to have read your post. Some (not all) of your ideas run parrell to mine. I've been writing a back story/novel for some time now, on a world based on my ideas of my ultimate MMORPG. It's been mapped, places and a number of main characters named, races, lands, economies, harvesting/farming regions, how people develop/progress, skills, traits etc etc.
One thing I've learn't is that everyones untimate MMORPG is different. Like you, I've been dissatisfied with what's currently being made (which is why I'm designing my own story (if you don't start somewhere nothing will ever happen)) and have not played any for over a year now. Like you, I hope to one day experience game that is worthy of my time investment.
People best react to conciseness and sensationalism. Saying I demand something in capital letters incites the emotions and provokes the mass to read.
In general, I agree that the masses react to sensationalism, but are you targeting the masses or the ones developing the games, and do those people react the same way to sensationalism?
If you're targeting the masses then your post will just disappear into a sea of complaints. If you're targeting developers have you approached them in an impactful way? What makes your post stand out to make the ones that matter say "Hey, this is a good post" and actually think about your words?
Please. Developers don't give us any heed. I'm merely making an exasperated complaint about the state of MMOs and wish the kind of game world I wanted existed.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar I think the amount of content in modern games on release is orders of magnitude greater than old older games release.
However player r expectations have risen even higher.
I do not believe players have realistic expectations of pretty much anything and mmo gamers are the winiest biggest self entitled group of whiner babies in the entire gaming universe
Get over yourselves. You are not entitiled to anything.
I strongly disagree with your opening line.
Let's take a trip back to 1997. EverQuest releases. Included AT LAUNCH is: 01) 3 HUGE continents (Antonica, Faydwer, and Odus along with 2 HUGE sea zones). 02) 12 Unique Races. (Barbarian, Dwarf, Halfling, Half-Elf, High Elf, Wood Elf, Dark Elf, Troll, Ogre, Erudite, Gnome, Human). 03) 15 Unique Classes (Bard, Berserker, Cleric, Druid, Enchanter, Magician, Monk, Necromancer, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Shadow Knight, Shaman, Warrior, Wizard). 04) LOADS of dungeons throughout the game, not just at endgame. 05) LOADS of zones to adventure in. 06) Truly EPIC quests for each individual class that took months/years to complete. 07) A deep and meaningful crafting system. 08) LOTS of weapons and armors. 09) LOTS of varying monsters. 10) No in-game map at all. 11) LOADS of factions that reacted to player choices. This is just the tip of that iceberg. Compare this small list to what gets released these days. They pale in comparison.
Now, let's take a trip back to 2004, when City of Heroes (another MMORPG I had a great time playing) released. 01) Mostly instanced missions (quests) that leveled according to the size of the group. 02) The best physics I have yet to see in an MMO. 03) Real 3D flying. 04) A character creator that many players spent literally hours at a time with. Not as an impressive of a list as EQ's, but still features/mechanics not improved upon, let alone included.
UO, AC, DAoC, and other old MMOs had features/content no longer even thought about these days.
I do agree that the OP can "demand" whetever they wish. Won't make it happen, though. Developers/publishers are most interested in making a buck these days, instead of fun game experiences. Sure, some players have fun in today's MMOs, but there is a significant segment that does not.
What "we gamers" are "entitled to", is a game we want to play, IF (important word here) a developer/publisher wants our money. Otherwise, no point at all to the whole thing, is there?
Some minor nitpicks berzerker and epic quests were not there at release. I do however completely agree. I mean come on look at what EQ had at launch and what they did for expansions. I'm sorry but when EQ from 1997 has more classes, races, dungeons that are bigger and more of them, water you can actually swim in, larger groups (six people omg), more crafting, more items and a better itemization system (humanoids would drop the weapons they were wielding), more spells, more monsters, factions, starting locations, and then Kunark as the first expansion....
I look at SWTOR, ESO, Final Fantasy 14, and many other games and just shake my head. It's pathetic that EQ does so much more minus voice acting and graphics but it was from 1997. WTF? This isn't nostalgia either. Anyone could go on Zam and look at the actual content that was there and compare it.
I also agree 100% with the OP. I want virtual worlds in my MMORPGs or you don't get my money.
I believe they are all spending the majority of money on making easy quests for people to follow from level one to max level. In games like EQ there were only a few quests. The they didn't have an auction house originally, the graphics were less comlpex (though I still like them a lot), and there were was no voice (just text). All their efforts went into creating the various different zones, starting areas, spells, and other game mechanics. I would prefer to see time invested in those things instead of in quests with GPS, but it seems a lot of people like that. I can enjoy it too on occasion, but I prefer it in a single player game. Not a game with lots of other people.
To the people who say go outside for real life they have a point, but there are some things you can do in a game that would not be possible in real life. As mentioned you can die and come back to life. You can also kill/hurt others and it doesn't matter because it's not real. Lots of things are opened up to be done that you wouldn't want to do in real life because it would hurt yourself or someone else. That doesn't mean you toss everything from real life out the window and get rid of everything in game.
If developers would concentrate more on creating a virtual world and less on voice overs, graphics, and GPS quests then I might be lured to play MMOs again. That doesn't mean the game should have Nintendo Graphics. I can live with EQ like graphics. I occasionally play games that are 10 to 15 years old that I buy on Steam.
Originally posted by killion81 You demand, huh? As a player, you demand a development team caters to your "vision". Good luck with that.
Yeah, the demands plus about twenty million dollars might get that vision made. It would be kind of cr@ppy though. Forty million dollars might get a lot closer to it.
No it won't. Developers won't make it unless market research shows a large number of players want that and we all know that a million players aren't clamoring for such a game or they would have made it by now.
Comments
They have a game that describes just that. Its called Life. Its a huge pay to win though which kinda sucks though.
For real.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
The constant hackneyed replies that what I am looking for is life are evidently false. If I was looking for life, I would not be desiring to play a game. And if what I am looking for is not life but a game, but the game which I can clearly envision and see is wrong, then it must mean that the thing which I am wanting is incorrect.
Therefore, the thing that I am wanting is something I do not have an idea about.
And thus the argument that I am looking for life is invalid, because I do have an idea of the game I am wanting.
I desire to play an MMORPG, a game in which I am roleplaying as if a citizen in a world. The concept of what this virtual world is has evolved in the past 10 years, but the actual worlds being made do not reflect this.
Has player housing been done before? Yes, I've seen it in Asheron's Call. Therefore, player housing is not impossible.
Is it possible to have a vast and seamless (or "seemingly seamless") world? I do not see why not. It is possible to fly from Winterspring to Ungoro without ever having to enter an instance.
Therefore, where is the unrealistic expectation?
Is it not the focus of the developers rather than what is possible which I am calling into question?
It's not a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of overcoming corporate greed. Raise your standards sheepling.
Let's take a trip back to 1997. EverQuest releases. Included AT LAUNCH is:
01) 3 HUGE continents (Antonica, Faydwer, and Odus along with 2 HUGE sea zones).
02) 12 Unique Races. (Barbarian, Dwarf, Halfling, Half-Elf, High Elf, Wood Elf, Dark Elf, Troll, Ogre, Erudite, Gnome, Human).
03) 15 Unique Classes (Bard, Berserker, Cleric, Druid, Enchanter, Magician, Monk, Necromancer, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Shadow Knight, Shaman, Warrior, Wizard).
04) LOADS of dungeons throughout the game, not just at endgame.
05) LOADS of zones to adventure in.
06) Truly EPIC quests for each individual class that took months/years to complete.
07) A deep and meaningful crafting system.
08) LOTS of weapons and armors.
09) LOTS of varying monsters.
10) No in-game map at all.
11) LOADS of factions that reacted to player choices.
This is just the tip of that iceberg. Compare this small list to what gets released these days. They pale in comparison.
Now, let's take a trip back to 2004, when City of Heroes (another MMORPG I had a great time playing) released.
01) Mostly instanced missions (quests) that leveled according to the size of the group.
02) The best physics I have yet to see in an MMO.
03) Real 3D flying.
04) A character creator that many players spent literally hours at a time with.
Not as an impressive of a list as EQ's, but still features/mechanics not improved upon, let alone included.
UO, AC, DAoC, and other old MMOs had features/content no longer even thought about these days.
I do agree that the OP can "demand" whetever they wish. Won't make it happen, though. Developers/publishers are most interested in making a buck these days, instead of fun game experiences. Sure, some players have fun in today's MMOs, but there is a significant segment that does not.
What "we gamers" are "entitled to", is a game we want to play, IF (important word here) a developer/publisher wants our money. Otherwise, no point at all to the whole thing, is there?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I think it's where you held up your $15 and said you demand a multimillion dollar game be made for you.
"You have some serious mental issues you may need to seek some help for. There are others who post things, but do not post them in the way you do. Out of every person who posts crazy shit in this forum, you have some of the craziest and scariest" -FarReach
Maybe if you had a life you wouldnt be looking for the same things for one in a game? Just a thought. lol
If I'd never played firefall I would agree with that.
2) *I* am significant. At least in my eyes, I am, though many will disagree
Really, by "significant", I am talking about a playerbase that could make the publishers money if they were catered to. Of of course it would pale in comparison to the millions made by the new MMOs, but I believe (nothing to back this up) that money could still be made.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Regardless eq was the exception not the norm in many many different ways.
It capitalized on the trinity class raid and group focused game. The others at around the same time were not like that. They were more skill based less raid and group encouraged but but focused.
It was the exception. It also did very very well.
"I DEMAND" made it extremely difficult for me to actually read your post and it took me a good half an hour before I relented after reading some of the responses (before actually reading your post).
I'm not trying to put you down, on the contrary, I wish you well as you're obviously passionate about MMO's and it's future.
It's possibly pointless me posting this but I feel that if you wish to be taken more seriously, it may be worthwhile reconsidering how you title your posts, especially if your hoping people within MMORPG development companies will converse with you to share their thoughts/observations on the industry, where it's headed and if your "DEMANDS" are realistic.
In the end I'm pleased to have read your post. Some (not all) of your ideas run parrell to mine. I've been writing a back story/novel for some time now, on a world based on my ideas of my ultimate MMORPG. It's been mapped, places and a number of main characters named, races, lands, economies, harvesting/farming regions, how people develop/progress, skills, traits etc etc.
One thing I've learn't is that everyones untimate MMORPG is different. Like you, I've been dissatisfied with what's currently being made (which is why I'm designing my own story (if you don't start somewhere nothing will ever happen)) and have not played any for over a year now. Like you, I hope to one day experience game that is worthy of my time investment.
People best react to conciseness and sensationalism. Saying I demand something in capital letters incites the emotions and provokes the mass to read.
Or to make fun of you for acting like a child.
Surely the minds of children will concern themselves with petty things, and people with something worthwhile to say will say the worthwhile thing. It doesn't matter to me which is which. I enjoy that many people share my ideas, and I'm not surprised how other people behave on the internet.
In general, I agree that the masses react to sensationalism, but are you targeting the masses or the ones developing the games, and do those people react the same way to sensationalism?
If you're targeting the masses then your post will just disappear into a sea of complaints. If you're targeting developers have you approached them in an impactful way? What makes your post stand out to make the ones that matter say "Hey, this is a good post" and actually think about your words?
Some minor nitpicks berzerker and epic quests were not there at release. I do however completely agree. I mean come on look at what EQ had at launch and what they did for expansions. I'm sorry but when EQ from 1997 has more classes, races, dungeons that are bigger and more of them, water you can actually swim in, larger groups (six people omg), more crafting, more items and a better itemization system (humanoids would drop the weapons they were wielding), more spells, more monsters, factions, starting locations, and then Kunark as the first expansion....
I look at SWTOR, ESO, Final Fantasy 14, and many other games and just shake my head. It's pathetic that EQ does so much more minus voice acting and graphics but it was from 1997. WTF? This isn't nostalgia either. Anyone could go on Zam and look at the actual content that was there and compare it.
I also agree 100% with the OP. I want virtual worlds in my MMORPGs or you don't get my money.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Please. Developers don't give us any heed. I'm merely making an exasperated complaint about the state of MMOs and wish the kind of game world I wanted existed.
I believe they are all spending the majority of money on making easy quests for people to follow from level one to max level. In games like EQ there were only a few quests. The they didn't have an auction house originally, the graphics were less comlpex (though I still like them a lot), and there were was no voice (just text). All their efforts went into creating the various different zones, starting areas, spells, and other game mechanics. I would prefer to see time invested in those things instead of in quests with GPS, but it seems a lot of people like that. I can enjoy it too on occasion, but I prefer it in a single player game. Not a game with lots of other people.
To the people who say go outside for real life they have a point, but there are some things you can do in a game that would not be possible in real life. As mentioned you can die and come back to life. You can also kill/hurt others and it doesn't matter because it's not real. Lots of things are opened up to be done that you wouldn't want to do in real life because it would hurt yourself or someone else. That doesn't mean you toss everything from real life out the window and get rid of everything in game.
If developers would concentrate more on creating a virtual world and less on voice overs, graphics, and GPS quests then I might be lured to play MMOs again. That doesn't mean the game should have Nintendo Graphics. I can live with EQ like graphics. I occasionally play games that are 10 to 15 years old that I buy on Steam.
No it won't. Developers won't make it unless market research shows a large number of players want that and we all know that a million players aren't clamoring for such a game or they would have made it by now.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None