Free to play MMOS are always going to make the experience faster and easier for subscribers because they want the predictable revenue stream.
Its not pay to win, you can still play the game, experience a lot of what it has to offer as a free player and get a subscription by buying it with in game currency. But if you enjoy a game enough to want to explore it to the fullest then contribute to its future success by paying for it.
If your playing the game to the extent that not having a patron sub is what is holding you back, you are getting enough time and enjoyment out of it to justify the sub.
What one poster said above is true, gaming companies are not your friend, they are a service provide selling a product, and you as a customer have the option of buying it or not. But if you choose not to buy it, then yes you have the right to suggest improvements that would make you buy it. But very few for profit companies are going to deal out everything their customers get to their free to play players.
As a free to play player you provide a service to the paying customers by populating their world, in turn the service provider gives you a cut down version of the game for free. Your choice is simple, is the cut down version enough of a reward for the small service you provide, if it is continue playing if it isnt leave.
But demanding the same access as a subscriber and rallying people to the "pay to win" achieves nothing if you are still playing.
So its simple, if you like the game and want to play it to its fullest sub, if you dont leave.
Originally posted by Sector13 Charging people 150 bucks for an old F2P game that is failing is most regions to sucker bored westerners after the ESO yawnfest. Yeap, Trion is so trustworthy.
There is nothing dishonest about what they are doing, so I think you must mean something else other than trustworthy.
They are offering a service for a fee and when you pay the fee you get the service you purchased. No dishonesty to be seen here.
Now had you said opportunistic I would agree, but that is what being in business (which is what game companies are, they are not charities, government funded art projects or socialist institutions) is all about. If you had said greedy for charging the amount they do for early access, I would agree but they obviously wanted a high barrier of entry at this point in their process.
But they are being very transparent about it, give us 150 USD and get in now nor not.
Originally posted by Entropy14 I will sub if I am having fun, to me pay 2 win would only be if the game was f2p and they nickeled and dimed you to advance or to get things no one else can unless you pay.
Or even a paid game that allowed extra purchases to give you advantage.
Maybe people should look at Archeage a little differently. Think of it as a monthly sub game that allowed you to also play for free, provided you don't mind losing some of the benefits of a subscription.
If you 'look at it a little differently' you're allowing the companies with the power (the money) to bully you. They're, in the end, telling you that you'll sit down, shut up, and pay them the money the way they want to be paid. If it was a monthly sub game that allowed you to play for free, and they advertised it as such, then it would be exactly correct. The trick is in the advertisement though. The technicalities. The ability of the company to say "hey look at this free thing we're giving you" and get you to invest enough time that you'll be willing to pay them. They know the golden rule of business, that us as consumers do not usually; time is money. At some point the time you spent in the 'free' part of the 'game' is worth more to you than the money they're asking for.
Not to say that they haven't provided you with a service that you indeed SHOULD HAVE TO pay for. It's the fact that they began the interaction with a lie, which is that the game is 'free to play'. If "free to play" meant nothing more than exactly what it says, why would you need to label something as that?? Do you not think it would be obvious?
No one is looking out for you but you. Don't let companies fool you. Nothing in life is free, and to take advantage of the very people that pay your paychecks is despicable. The fact that there are people out there willing to defend such a hoodwinking is even worse.. But they defend it because to admit this statement as truth is to lose all the time that they've invested, and the fear of loss is what will motivate people to fight the truth.. As I said earlier, ignorance is bliss. Not everyone has the resolve to deal with reality
Holy shit you have some issues. Just because they don't give you 100% of what the game can provide, does not mean it isn't a free to play game. You're arguing semantics and should just go to fkn bed. Done.
Originally posted by Entropy14 I will sub if I am having fun, to me pay 2 win would only be if the game was f2p and they nickeled and dimed you to advance or to get things no one else can unless you pay.
Or even a paid game that allowed extra purchases to give you advantage.
Maybe people should look at Archeage a little differently. Think of it as a monthly sub game that allowed you to also play for free, provided you don't mind losing some of the benefits of a subscription.
If you 'look at it a little differently' you're allowing the companies with the power (the money) to bully you. They're, in the end, telling you that you'll sit down, shut up, and pay them the money the way they want to be paid. If it was a monthly sub game that allowed you to play for free, and they advertised it as such, then it would be exactly correct. The trick is in the advertisement though. The technicalities. The ability of the company to say "hey look at this free thing we're giving you" and get you to invest enough time that you'll be willing to pay them. They know the golden rule of business, that us as consumers do not usually; time is money. At some point the time you spent in the 'free' part of the 'game' is worth more to you than the money they're asking for.
Not to say that they haven't provided you with a service that you indeed SHOULD HAVE TO pay for. It's the fact that they began the interaction with a lie, which is that the game is 'free to play'. If "free to play" meant nothing more than exactly what it says, why would you need to label something as that?? Do you not think it would be obvious?
No one is looking out for you but you. Don't let companies fool you. Nothing in life is free, and to take advantage of the very people that pay your paychecks is despicable. The fact that there are people out there willing to defend such a hoodwinking is even worse.. But they defend it because to admit this statement as truth is to lose all the time that they've invested, and the fear of loss is what will motivate people to fight the truth.. As I said earlier, ignorance is bliss. Not everyone has the resolve to deal with reality
Holy shit you have some issues. Just because they don't give you 100% of what the game can provide, does not mean it isn't a free to play game. You're arguing semantics and should just go to fkn bed. Done.
But are they even locking you out of content as a free player? Asking since I am not in the alpha, but from what people that have access are writing, it seems like you actually have access to the same content, so you get everything the game can provide, just at a slower pace than someone with a sub.
F2P Users Are Needed Only For The First Few Months Of A New Game , With A Successful Launch , F2P Users After That Point Are A Burden To A Game Host , They Are Tolerated , " Some What How New Yorkers Have Learned To Tolerate Cockroaches " The Vast Majority Of Cheaters , Bots , Low Lives , Scammers , And Undesirables Are F2P Users ,
See No Company Wants To Give Away Its Product For Free For Ever, Do You Think Pepsi Would Supply You With Free Soda Day In And Day Out For Months And Years , In The Hope Some Day After Drinking Vast Quantities Of Pepsi , You Decide You Like Pepsi And Start Buying Your Own ?
Online Games Are A Business , A Business Needs To Make Money To Cover Pay Roll , And Returns To Its Investors , When The F2P Population Grows Faster Than The P2P Population The Business Has To Make The Game Less Desirable For The Free Player , At This Point The Free Users Will Sub Or Quit , Ether Way Its A Win For The Business .
As With Everything In Life , You Get What You Put In ! Put Nothing In , How Can You Complain When You Get Nothing Out ?
Free To Play Means Just That You Can Play For Free, You Wont Win , Or Be The Best , Or A Ubber Player , But You Can Play
If You Decide Not To Play Because Those " That Are Paying To Kept The Game Running , And To Allow The Free Loader F2P Population The Measure Of The Game There Getting At No Cost " Are Getting Very Small Advantages Your Not . Well For That There Is Only One Thing To Say ....
Originally posted by Entropy14 I will sub if I am having fun, to me pay 2 win would only be if the game was f2p and they nickeled and dimed you to advance or to get things no one else can unless you pay.
Or even a paid game that allowed extra purchases to give you advantage.
Maybe people should look at Archeage a little differently. Think of it as a monthly sub game that allowed you to also play for free, provided you don't mind losing some of the benefits of a subscription.
If you 'look at it a little differently' you're allowing the companies with the power (the money) to bully you. They're, in the end, telling you that you'll sit down, shut up, and pay them the money the way they want to be paid. If it was a monthly sub game that allowed you to play for free, and they advertised it as such, then it would be exactly correct. The trick is in the advertisement though. The technicalities. The ability of the company to say "hey look at this free thing we're giving you" and get you to invest enough time that you'll be willing to pay them. They know the golden rule of business, that us as consumers do not usually; time is money. At some point the time you spent in the 'free' part of the 'game' is worth more to you than the money they're asking for.
Not to say that they haven't provided you with a service that you indeed SHOULD HAVE TO pay for. It's the fact that they began the interaction with a lie, which is that the game is 'free to play'. If "free to play" meant nothing more than exactly what it says, why would you need to label something as that?? Do you not think it would be obvious?
No one is looking out for you but you. Don't let companies fool you. Nothing in life is free, and to take advantage of the very people that pay your paychecks is despicable. The fact that there are people out there willing to defend such a hoodwinking is even worse.. But they defend it because to admit this statement as truth is to lose all the time that they've invested, and the fear of loss is what will motivate people to fight the truth.. As I said earlier, ignorance is bliss. Not everyone has the resolve to deal with reality
Holy shit you have some issues. Just because they don't give you 100% of what the game can provide, does not mean it isn't a free to play game. You're arguing semantics and should just go to fkn bed. Done.
But are they even locking you out of content as a free player? Asking since I am not in the alpha, but from what people that have access are writing, it seems like you actually have access to the same content, so you get everything the game can provide, just at a slower pace than someone with a sub.
If I understood wrong, my mistake.
Sub fee lets you get things faster. There is nothing you cannot do as a free user that you can as a subscriber.
The also said they are offering average quality gear in the cash shop for those who don't want to earn anything in game. while this is somewhat P2W feeling, you can get better gear in game both as a free or as a paid user... so who wants to spend money for average gear? (Of course the answer is it is expedience to get you to the bottom rung of the competitive ladder). So, i could see people siding either way on if that is pay to win. Personally, since you'll have crappier gear if you pay real money than if you get it in game, it sounds more like pay to compete quickly and lose.
As far as i know at the moment, the max labor points you get with the sub is as high as you can get your points ever. you cannot augment your sub with cash shop purchases of labor points, nor can you - as a free user - buy more labor points than you'd receive with a sub.
The way it stands, it looks as though it is a sub game that you can play for free at your detriment. There is no additional paying to win past the sub fee. With that, I believe you can call it one of 2 things:
1) A sub game that is not p2w
2) a f2p game that is p2w (if you like to define spending any money to make you earn stuff faster p2w)
You guys are such trolls. OP has a very valid point, though I suspect that most of you can't see it as much more attention is given to negative comments than positive ones. I am not disputing the claim that the owners of the game must be paid, which is clearly a fact. The real fact of the matter, which OP was bringing to light, is that the title "free to play" has a colloquial meaning that differs from its literal meaning. By offering 'enhancements' through micro-transactions, the company is programming those of you unwilling to use your brain to think that you have the power to choose something. This is a tactic which increases compliance with the unspoken request all owners of a business give: "buy my product". Please open your eyes to what posting on a forum like this could do to further affect the uneducated masses, much like yourselves. You are effectively saying "no it's okay, they can call it free to play because it makes me feel better about my choice to spend money on it". Again, the consumer is being fooled. Taken advantage of. DO NOT TAKE THIS as a message bashing this specific game or a statement saying no, don't buy games with your money. That is not what I'm saying. I'm saying, open your eyes and stop spreading the infection that is ignorance. You are not on the winning end of any deal that big companies may seem to be giving you. The sooner the public admits that they've been taken advantage of, the sooner we can work on fixing it. Continuing to gobble up whatever big business throws at us will only further the problem, which is having your mind controlled in a way. I understand that not everyone feels this way, as it is much easier to 'go with the flow'. I for one do not like being taken advantage of, and the fact that there are people in the world willing to defend a company's right to refer to a game, which clearly does sell unfair advantages, in a way that makes it seem like it actually does not, makes my stomach turn. If you don't mind being taken advantage of, that is your right. But by being okay with it, you are in fact impairing my right to NOT be okay with it, as the consent of those buying the game is indeed the deciding factor in whether the companies get away with it.
All of this being said, I am not one to complain and leave. That would be nothing be harmful to who it may concern. The solution is to take responsibility for our actions as gamers and just pay the subscription fee that so clearly worked for years before the uneducated masses decided they couldn't handle the 'effect' that their actions have 'caused'. The action of paying monthly for a subscription caused the idea that games should be free. Of course, powerful companies with the means to work psychologically on it's consumers, were more than able to oblige the request by the masses to make it easier for us to give them our money and make us feel like it's our own choice. Let us all open our eyes.. for the sake of the future of games..
Not sure if you're being sarcastic. You condone that the company provides you with a false choice, manipulating you into buying a subscription, yet as a solution you propose to buy that sub? Then what will change? They get your money and that's all they care about.
It's the same like people complaining about how there 'never is a truly innovative mmorpg' yet they keep buying everything that is getting released as a way to 'try it'. Guess what, the company has your money then and that was all they cared for.
DISCLAIMER: This post is in no way intended to be trolling, flaming, hate inciting or other offenses. If you can not distinct between an opposing opinion or a troll I'd recommend you seek help.
It's free to try, that's a good thing. You can see the game, get a feel for it, see if you like it. If you want to be any good, then sub. All F2P games will try to find a way to get you to spend money. If paying players got nothing more than non-paying players then there would be no game.
You could always go for a Box+Sub (often +Shop) game, spend the money and then rage because you didn't like the game and feel like you got ripped off. In this case I see no reason to be too upset.
The term Free To Play can be somewhat misleading, but it is what it is.
Patron status looks P2W as fuck for F2P crafters like myself how am I supposed to compete against people with land with farms who are able to farm large quantity of farm animals and make huge profits.
Then they sell Patron status in AH and make even more profits. How are the non-patron suppose to compete while we get small gains from quests and get scraps. The richest players will be patron's 100% of the time.
Labor points regen rates from patron and f2p players will only widen the gap over time causing the economy to be broken.
The game is free to play. You can play the game without paying them any money. If you enjoy the game enough, you may want to pay them to play. There are advantages to paying to play. This CAN be considered by SOME to be pay to win.
Corporatism aside, paranoia aside, conspiracy theories aside, you can still play the game without spending a dime.
Wow some really stupid responses. Learn what P2W means. Go play most MMO strategy games, those are pay to win. Thats like saying a game with an expansion is pay to win because you have to buy the expansion to get higher level. lol. You are getting more content with the money, if you dont want all that content then dont pay. Its as simple as that.
F2P does not mean you get everything for free. Somewhere along the line the company needs to make money. Get out with your cheap ass.
Unless they've recently changed what the word 'free' means, then actually, it does mean you get something for free. As I said in my earlier statement, it's just a marketing ploy in the end. They're telling you Quit bastardizing the English language. If it's free to play, it's -free- to play. If I'm playing half of something, and we wanna be technical about it, I'm not playing 'the game' I'm wasting my time. Unless companies are going to promote the free pieces of their games to the people it's available to (everyone) and the pay to play pieces to the people that is available to (those who have, duh, already played it and paid) then it is indeed false advertising to say that the game is free to play. As what constitutes "the game" is in fact not free to play, but you have to pay to access it.
I for one am not willing to call anything less than 100% of the intended content of the software that is the game "the game" because literally, it just isn't. To expect something for free however IS WRONG. That doesn't change the fact that half a game isn't 'a game' though.
LOTRO has never been questioned if its F2P or P2W, its F2P. But after level 20 you either have to farm points to buy the quests in each zone or pay for quests after level 20. That is exactly how this game is. You have the option of getting a sub through the game with time you spent in the game as other people have pointed out already. So no getting less than 100% is not P2W.
I have officially lost touch with the mindset of this culture.
Its the " Entitlement " generation " , they think everything in life should be free and put on a plate for them ... I blame mobile phones and Facebook , these type's of individuals are basically out of touch with reality.. sigh.
I have officially lost touch with the mindset of this culture.
Its the " Entitlement " generation " , they think everything in life should be free and put on a plate for them ... I blame mobile phones and Facebook , these type's of individuals are basically out of touch with reality.. sigh.
Whole heartedly agree with this. They want it all...they want it free with no limitations. Next they will be expecting the MMO companies to pay them a fee to play the games.
Should not be viewed as free to play, should be viewed as a game that has multiple membership levels, like cable internet, or many other things in life.
Some people get the 'member' level with its perks, and pay to get them.
Some people opt to just get the basic service, and don't have to pay.
Should not be viewed as free to play, should be viewed as a game that has multiple membership levels, like cable internet, or many other things in life.
Some people get the 'member' level with its perks, and pay to get them.
Some people opt to just get the basic service, and don't have to pay.
Patron status looks P2W as fuck for F2P crafters like myself how am I supposed to compete against people with land with farms who are able to farm large quantity of farm animals and make huge profits.
Then they sell Patron status in AH and make even more profits. How are the non-patron suppose to compete while we get small gains from quests and get scraps. The richest players will be patron's 100% of the time.
Labor points regen rates from patron and f2p players will only widen the gap over time causing the economy to be broken.
Just wait, the 1.0 update was the FIRST update from XL for F2P and western markets. While Trion is leaving out one major change, there are enough to show that the game will be P2W and not just via Patron, there will be P2W items in the shop like buying crafting materials and what not.
Should not be viewed as free to play, should be viewed as a game that has multiple membership levels, like cable internet, or many other things in life.
Some people get the 'member' level with its perks, and pay to get them.
Some people opt to just get the basic service, and don't have to pay.
That' is how I look at it.
I like the way you look at it.
For some reason, people seem to think that reality is just a manifestation of the collective opinion of the public..
And yet still have the audacity to comment on the state of the world. What confused souls.. It's a hard realization to swallow; knowing that your opinion actually doesn't matter despite the fact that you have the right to speak it. Another one of the unspoken lies in life that keep us all on the hamster wheel, while those who aren't too scared to admit that they are tiny (and subsequently gain the ability to build themselves up because they have information that's rooted in reality and not opinion) profit. -though I quoted this particular post, it is not necessarily all aimed at this poster-
Unless they've recently changed what the word 'free' means, then actually, it does mean you get something for free. As I said in my earlier statement, it's just a marketing ploy in the end. They're telling you Quit bastardizing the English language. If it's free to play, it's -free- to play. If I'm playing half of something, and we wanna be technical about it, I'm not playing 'the game' I'm wasting my time. Unless companies are going to promote the free pieces of their games to the people it's available to (everyone) and the pay to play pieces to the people that is available to (those who have, duh, already played it and paid) then it is indeed false advertising to say that the game is free to play. As what constitutes "the game" is in fact not free to play, but you have to pay to access it.
I for one am not willing to call anything less than 100% of the intended content of the software that is the game "the game" because literally, it just isn't. To expect something for free however IS WRONG. That doesn't change the fact that half a game isn't 'a game' though.
Are you friggen serious? You will be able to download the client for free. You will be able to play the whole game for free if you choose. You are not limited to half the game in any way. You will be able to run every dungeon. You will be able to PvP, PvE, you can craft, interact with the world. You aren't limited to any small zone. You essentially have the whole world to play. So that is FREE.
Those who put money in to support the game get bonuses. Such as early access, housing, land ownership, some extras here n there. As well they should. Why should those who pay a subscription get the exact same treatment as those who don't put a penny into the game?
And you don't HAVE to pay to get access it. You can wait until it is open for everybody to play.
Those who put money in to support the game get bonuses. Such as early access, housing, land ownership, some extras here n there. As well they should. Why should those who pay a subscription get the exact same treatment as those who don't put a penny into the game?
And you don't HAVE to pay to get access it. You can wait until it is open for everybody to play.
And thus the reason for this thread. Pay 2 Win.
You just defined the game as such and actually tried to defend it in a way that made it seem like its OK.
Either go F2P or don't. P2W games always turn into garbage games. There are plenty of F2P games out there that have decent and even GOOD revenue without P2W functions.
Personally I believe the F2P conversion killed this game and that the game would have actually done well in the west as a subscription game. XL Games does not have a grasp on the western market and the changes being made to the game for the west is turning into something that will drive players away once they see what money buys people.
F2P has a hard enough time in the west, P2W games have it even harder. Such foolish changes being made to what was a great game, and their not understanding that the reason why it did not do well in Korea is because the game already was perfect for western gamers.......
Should not be viewed as free to play, should be viewed as a game that has multiple membership levels, like cable internet, or many other things in life.
Some people get the 'member' level with its perks, and pay to get them.
Some people opt to just get the basic service, and don't have to pay.
That' is how I look at it.
I like the way you look at it.
For some reason, people seem to think that reality is just a manifestation of the collective opinion of the public..
And yet still have the audacity to comment on the state of the world. What confused souls.. It's a hard realization to swallow; knowing that your opinion actually doesn't matter despite the fact that you have the right to speak it. Another one of the unspoken lies in life that keep us all on the hamster wheel, while those who aren't too scared to admit that they are tiny (and subsequently gain the ability to build themselves up because they have information that's rooted in reality and not opinion) profit. -though I quoted this particular post, it is not necessarily all aimed at this poster-
You're so wrong. The ONLY thing that matters in this multiverse is MY opinion. My perspective. My truth. It is everyone elses opions, perspectives, and world views that don't matter.
What is important to ME is what is important. If it is important to me what others think, than what others think is important.
Those who put money in to support the game get bonuses. Such as early access, housing, land ownership, some extras here n there. As well they should. Why should those who pay a subscription get the exact same treatment as those who don't put a penny into the game?
And you don't HAVE to pay to get access it. You can wait until it is open for everybody to play.
And thus the reason for this thread. Pay 2 Win.
You just defined the game as such and actually tried to defend it in a way that made it seem like its OK.
Either go F2P or don't. P2W games always turn into garbage games. There are plenty of F2P games out there that have decent and even GOOD revenue without P2W functions.
Personally I believe the F2P conversion killed this game and that the game would have actually done well in the west as a subscription game. XL Games does not have a grasp on the western market and the changes being made to the game for the west is turning into something that will drive players away once they see what money buys people.
F2P has a hard enough time in the west, P2W games have it even harder. Such foolish changes being made to what was a great game, and their not understanding that the reason why it did not do well in Korea is because the game already was perfect for western gamers.......
He just defined F2P. P2W means 9/10 times a person who spent $1000 will beat the person who paid only $500. That is not true in this game. Learn the difference. The more money you put in this game does not mean the better you are at the game, which means it is a F2P game.
Unless they've recently changed what the word 'free' means, then actually, it does mean you get something for free. As I said in my earlier statement, it's just a marketing ploy in the end. They're telling you Quit bastardizing the English language. If it's free to play, it's -free- to play. If I'm playing half of something, and we wanna be technical about it, I'm not playing 'the game' I'm wasting my time. Unless companies are going to promote the free pieces of their games to the people it's available to (everyone) and the pay to play pieces to the people that is available to (those who have, duh, already played it and paid) then it is indeed false advertising to say that the game is free to play. As what constitutes "the game" is in fact not free to play, but you have to pay to access it.
I for one am not willing to call anything less than 100% of the intended content of the software that is the game "the game" because literally, it just isn't. To expect something for free however IS WRONG. That doesn't change the fact that half a game isn't 'a game' though.
Are you friggen serious? You will be able to download the client for free. You will be able to play the whole game for free if you choose. You are not limited to half the game in any way. You will be able to run every dungeon. You will be able to PvP, PvE, you can craft, interact with the world. You aren't limited to any small zone. You essentially have the whole world to play. So that is FREE.
Those who put money in to support the game get bonuses. Such as early access, housing, land ownership, some extras here n there. As well they should. Why should those who pay a subscription get the exact same treatment as those who don't put a penny into the game?
And you don't HAVE to pay to get access it. You can wait until it is open for everybody to play.
It wouldn't let me quote the part I'm referring to directly, so I'll have to quote it myself.. "Those who put money in to support the game get bonuses"
Have you never played a real game? If a company needs to ask the person they're SELLING A PRODUCT TO for the funds to make said product, wouldn't that make it our game rather than theirs? Or do you honestly want to admit that you haven't ever had exactly the idea for a game like ArcheAge? Because at this point if they need us to fund it or "put money in to support the game" maybe they should re-think the fact that they're making a game in the first place. Else we would end up with countless 'games' with almost no value. I'm not gonna walk up to a man asking him to give me money so I can go buy the ingredients to cook him a burger (assuming I'm Ronald McDonald or a burger salesman). That would make HIM the one with the right to choose how it's done...not me.
There is no real argument here, because I'm not actually making specific claims (as that would in fact INVALIDATE anything I've said because it would be the same as every other poster here posting their personal experiences in an attempt to validate their wasted lives). The fact that someone is wrong forces a person to go on the defensive (again in an attempt to validate their words) when there really is no defending the fact that -almost- everything I've said has been from the perspective of an unbiased third party, and the information presented; factual (meaning it can be observed by more than just me in my own personal experiences with a game).
I made the point in an earlier post that to simply state a fault and leave is not helpful in any way without also stating a way to fix the fault, and I stick to that statement. That being said, the way to fix the fact that most of your arguments are indeed personal experiences is to admit to yourself (no one else, necessarily) that there exists many many more people in the world than you. To admit, again to yourself, that being ONE opinion out of SEVEN BILLION means that more likely than not, anything you've experienced is exclusive to YOU and YOUR LIFE. As a matter of fact, the probability that ANYONE actually thinks or feels like you is almost IMPOSSIBLE as the range of possible emotion/thought/experience combinations is almost literally infinite. The reason that this is a solution is because the closer each individual becomes to the opinion of the masses, indeed, the closer they become to reality. Sometimes it is rather easy to get yourself too far into your own head and lose track of what is actually reality and what you've understood to be reality. The sooner one admits a fault, the closer one becomes to faultless, as a winner, in reality, is just the person who has suffered enough losses to know what NOT to do.
Comments
Free to play MMOS are always going to make the experience faster and easier for subscribers because they want the predictable revenue stream.
Its not pay to win, you can still play the game, experience a lot of what it has to offer as a free player and get a subscription by buying it with in game currency. But if you enjoy a game enough to want to explore it to the fullest then contribute to its future success by paying for it.
If your playing the game to the extent that not having a patron sub is what is holding you back, you are getting enough time and enjoyment out of it to justify the sub.
What one poster said above is true, gaming companies are not your friend, they are a service provide selling a product, and you as a customer have the option of buying it or not. But if you choose not to buy it, then yes you have the right to suggest improvements that would make you buy it. But very few for profit companies are going to deal out everything their customers get to their free to play players.
As a free to play player you provide a service to the paying customers by populating their world, in turn the service provider gives you a cut down version of the game for free. Your choice is simple, is the cut down version enough of a reward for the small service you provide, if it is continue playing if it isnt leave.
But demanding the same access as a subscriber and rallying people to the "pay to win" achieves nothing if you are still playing.
So its simple, if you like the game and want to play it to its fullest sub, if you dont leave.
There is nothing dishonest about what they are doing, so I think you must mean something else other than trustworthy.
They are offering a service for a fee and when you pay the fee you get the service you purchased. No dishonesty to be seen here.
Now had you said opportunistic I would agree, but that is what being in business (which is what game companies are, they are not charities, government funded art projects or socialist institutions) is all about. If you had said greedy for charging the amount they do for early access, I would agree but they obviously wanted a high barrier of entry at this point in their process.
But they are being very transparent about it, give us 150 USD and get in now nor not.
Holy shit you have some issues. Just because they don't give you 100% of what the game can provide, does not mean it isn't a free to play game. You're arguing semantics and should just go to fkn bed. Done.
But are they even locking you out of content as a free player? Asking since I am not in the alpha, but from what people that have access are writing, it seems like you actually have access to the same content, so you get everything the game can provide, just at a slower pace than someone with a sub.
If I understood wrong, my mistake.
F2P Users Are Needed Only For The First Few Months Of A New Game , With A Successful Launch , F2P Users After That Point Are A Burden To A Game Host , They Are Tolerated , " Some What How New Yorkers Have Learned To Tolerate Cockroaches " The Vast Majority Of Cheaters , Bots , Low Lives , Scammers , And Undesirables Are F2P Users ,
See No Company Wants To Give Away Its Product For Free For Ever, Do You Think Pepsi Would Supply You With Free Soda Day In And Day Out For Months And Years , In The Hope Some Day After Drinking Vast Quantities Of Pepsi , You Decide You Like Pepsi And Start Buying Your Own ?
Online Games Are A Business , A Business Needs To Make Money To Cover Pay Roll , And Returns To Its Investors , When The F2P Population Grows Faster Than The P2P Population The Business Has To Make The Game Less Desirable For The Free Player , At This Point The Free Users Will Sub Or Quit , Ether Way Its A Win For The Business .
As With Everything In Life , You Get What You Put In ! Put Nothing In , How Can You Complain When You Get Nothing Out ?
Free To Play Means Just That You Can Play For Free, You Wont Win , Or Be The Best , Or A Ubber Player , But You Can Play
If You Decide Not To Play Because Those " That Are Paying To Kept The Game Running , And To Allow The Free Loader F2P Population The Measure Of The Game There Getting At No Cost " Are Getting Very Small Advantages Your Not . Well For That There Is Only One Thing To Say ....
Bye
Sub fee lets you get things faster. There is nothing you cannot do as a free user that you can as a subscriber.
The also said they are offering average quality gear in the cash shop for those who don't want to earn anything in game. while this is somewhat P2W feeling, you can get better gear in game both as a free or as a paid user... so who wants to spend money for average gear? (Of course the answer is it is expedience to get you to the bottom rung of the competitive ladder). So, i could see people siding either way on if that is pay to win. Personally, since you'll have crappier gear if you pay real money than if you get it in game, it sounds more like pay to compete quickly and lose.
As far as i know at the moment, the max labor points you get with the sub is as high as you can get your points ever. you cannot augment your sub with cash shop purchases of labor points, nor can you - as a free user - buy more labor points than you'd receive with a sub.
The way it stands, it looks as though it is a sub game that you can play for free at your detriment. There is no additional paying to win past the sub fee. With that, I believe you can call it one of 2 things:
1) A sub game that is not p2w
2) a f2p game that is p2w (if you like to define spending any money to make you earn stuff faster p2w)
Not sure if you're being sarcastic. You condone that the company provides you with a false choice, manipulating you into buying a subscription, yet as a solution you propose to buy that sub? Then what will change? They get your money and that's all they care about.
It's the same like people complaining about how there 'never is a truly innovative mmorpg' yet they keep buying everything that is getting released as a way to 'try it'. Guess what, the company has your money then and that was all they cared for.
DISCLAIMER: This post is in no way intended to be trolling, flaming, hate inciting or other offenses. If you can not distinct between an opposing opinion or a troll I'd recommend you seek help.
It's free to try, that's a good thing. You can see the game, get a feel for it, see if you like it. If you want to be any good, then sub. All F2P games will try to find a way to get you to spend money. If paying players got nothing more than non-paying players then there would be no game.
You could always go for a Box+Sub (often +Shop) game, spend the money and then rage because you didn't like the game and feel like you got ripped off. In this case I see no reason to be too upset.
The term Free To Play can be somewhat misleading, but it is what it is.
So, for you P2P = P2W ?
Free client
Free extended trial
Reasonable sub optional if you choose to play
And you STILL complain?
I have officially lost touch with the mindset of this culture.
The game is free to play. You can play the game without paying them any money. If you enjoy the game enough, you may want to pay them to play. There are advantages to paying to play. This CAN be considered by SOME to be pay to win.
Corporatism aside, paranoia aside, conspiracy theories aside, you can still play the game without spending a dime.
Sophism ftw.
LOTRO has never been questioned if its F2P or P2W, its F2P. But after level 20 you either have to farm points to buy the quests in each zone or pay for quests after level 20. That is exactly how this game is. You have the option of getting a sub through the game with time you spent in the game as other people have pointed out already. So no getting less than 100% is not P2W.
Its the " Entitlement " generation " , they think everything in life should be free and put on a plate for them ... I blame mobile phones and Facebook , these type's of individuals are basically out of touch with reality.. sigh.
Whole heartedly agree with this. They want it all...they want it free with no limitations. Next they will be expecting the MMO companies to pay them a fee to play the games.
Should not be viewed as free to play, should be viewed as a game that has multiple membership levels, like cable internet, or many other things in life.
Some people get the 'member' level with its perks, and pay to get them.
Some people opt to just get the basic service, and don't have to pay.
That' is how I look at it.
I like the way you look at it.
Just wait, the 1.0 update was the FIRST update from XL for F2P and western markets. While Trion is leaving out one major change, there are enough to show that the game will be P2W and not just via Patron, there will be P2W items in the shop like buying crafting materials and what not.
For some reason, people seem to think that reality is just a manifestation of the collective opinion of the public..
And yet still have the audacity to comment on the state of the world. What confused souls.. It's a hard realization to swallow; knowing that your opinion actually doesn't matter despite the fact that you have the right to speak it. Another one of the unspoken lies in life that keep us all on the hamster wheel, while those who aren't too scared to admit that they are tiny (and subsequently gain the ability to build themselves up because they have information that's rooted in reality and not opinion) profit. -though I quoted this particular post, it is not necessarily all aimed at this poster-
Are you friggen serious? You will be able to download the client for free. You will be able to play the whole game for free if you choose. You are not limited to half the game in any way. You will be able to run every dungeon. You will be able to PvP, PvE, you can craft, interact with the world. You aren't limited to any small zone. You essentially have the whole world to play. So that is FREE.
Those who put money in to support the game get bonuses. Such as early access, housing, land ownership, some extras here n there. As well they should. Why should those who pay a subscription get the exact same treatment as those who don't put a penny into the game?
And you don't HAVE to pay to get access it. You can wait until it is open for everybody to play.
And thus the reason for this thread. Pay 2 Win.
You just defined the game as such and actually tried to defend it in a way that made it seem like its OK.
Either go F2P or don't. P2W games always turn into garbage games. There are plenty of F2P games out there that have decent and even GOOD revenue without P2W functions.
Personally I believe the F2P conversion killed this game and that the game would have actually done well in the west as a subscription game. XL Games does not have a grasp on the western market and the changes being made to the game for the west is turning into something that will drive players away once they see what money buys people.
F2P has a hard enough time in the west, P2W games have it even harder. Such foolish changes being made to what was a great game, and their not understanding that the reason why it did not do well in Korea is because the game already was perfect for western gamers.......
You're so wrong. The ONLY thing that matters in this multiverse is MY opinion. My perspective. My truth. It is everyone elses opions, perspectives, and world views that don't matter.
What is important to ME is what is important. If it is important to me what others think, than what others think is important.
Your view of the multiverse is dead wrong.
He just defined F2P. P2W means 9/10 times a person who spent $1000 will beat the person who paid only $500. That is not true in this game. Learn the difference. The more money you put in this game does not mean the better you are at the game, which means it is a F2P game.
It wouldn't let me quote the part I'm referring to directly, so I'll have to quote it myself.. "Those who put money in to support the game get bonuses"
Have you never played a real game? If a company needs to ask the person they're SELLING A PRODUCT TO for the funds to make said product, wouldn't that make it our game rather than theirs? Or do you honestly want to admit that you haven't ever had exactly the idea for a game like ArcheAge? Because at this point if they need us to fund it or "put money in to support the game" maybe they should re-think the fact that they're making a game in the first place. Else we would end up with countless 'games' with almost no value. I'm not gonna walk up to a man asking him to give me money so I can go buy the ingredients to cook him a burger (assuming I'm Ronald McDonald or a burger salesman). That would make HIM the one with the right to choose how it's done...not me.
There is no real argument here, because I'm not actually making specific claims (as that would in fact INVALIDATE anything I've said because it would be the same as every other poster here posting their personal experiences in an attempt to validate their wasted lives). The fact that someone is wrong forces a person to go on the defensive (again in an attempt to validate their words) when there really is no defending the fact that -almost- everything I've said has been from the perspective of an unbiased third party, and the information presented; factual (meaning it can be observed by more than just me in my own personal experiences with a game).
I made the point in an earlier post that to simply state a fault and leave is not helpful in any way without also stating a way to fix the fault, and I stick to that statement. That being said, the way to fix the fact that most of your arguments are indeed personal experiences is to admit to yourself (no one else, necessarily) that there exists many many more people in the world than you. To admit, again to yourself, that being ONE opinion out of SEVEN BILLION means that more likely than not, anything you've experienced is exclusive to YOU and YOUR LIFE. As a matter of fact, the probability that ANYONE actually thinks or feels like you is almost IMPOSSIBLE as the range of possible emotion/thought/experience combinations is almost literally infinite. The reason that this is a solution is because the closer each individual becomes to the opinion of the masses, indeed, the closer they become to reality. Sometimes it is rather easy to get yourself too far into your own head and lose track of what is actually reality and what you've understood to be reality. The sooner one admits a fault, the closer one becomes to faultless, as a winner, in reality, is just the person who has suffered enough losses to know what NOT to do.