In Rift Trion sell armor in the cash shop and have recently made it possible to upgrade to legendary armor and weapons if your willing to spend enough on loot boxes which contain the infinity shards needed to do so . The patron status in Rift doesn't allow enough points to buy many of these loot boxes so those willing to spend even more money than the subscription do get an advantage if they do similar in ArcheAge I would say in my view it will be a pay to win game as Rift now is .
Originally posted by greatskys In Rift Trion sell armor in the cash shop and have recently made it possible to upgrade to legendary armor and weapons if your willing to spend enough on loot boxes which contain the infinity shards needed to do so . The patron status in Rift doesn't allow enough points to buy many of these loot boxes so those willing to spend even more money than the subscription do get an advantage if they do similar in ArcheAge I would say in my view it will be a pay to win game as Rift now is .
Many companies, corporations, ask "people", investors, for $ to make a product. It's called capitalism.
Again. You're view of the multiverse is terribly terribly flawed. Seek professional help.
Oh they're asking me if I want to have to pay to enjoy parts of the game?
As far as professional help goes, this was all I was willing to give in response to that as I'm still not sure if you're being sarcastic to emphasize the ignorance of the average person or if you're truly referring to the space in which you exist as "the multiverse" in earnest.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
If I own the means of production (the p2w fees which enable in-game economic advantages), I also make the decisions about what is being built (the game itself and it's microtransaction structure). Obviously, this is not what is happening. Again I wasn't sure if I should post in reply, because....honestly just.. put the Chronicles of Riddick down for a second and walk outside pls (this is not trolling, I have a genuine concern)
Many companies, corporations, ask "people", investors, for $ to make a product. It's called capitalism.
Again. You're view of the multiverse is terribly terribly flawed. Seek professional help.
Oh they're asking me if I want to have to pay to enjoy parts of the game?
As far as professional help goes, this was all I was willing to give in response to that as I'm still not sure if you're being sarcastic to emphasize the ignorance of the average person or if you're truly referring to the space in which you exist as "the multiverse" in earnest.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
If I own the means of production (the p2w fees which enable in-game economic advantages), I also make the decisions about what is being built. Obviously, this is not what is happening. Again I wasn't sure if I should post in reply, because....honestly just.. put the Chronicles of Riddick down for a second and walk outside pls
You do have a voice to what is put in a game. $15 worth, there just happens to be people that millions of dollars as their vote. Have you ever gotten stocks? Each stock is a vote, if someone has 51% of the vote then it doesnt really matter what you say, you still get the vote but it will never matter. Get more votes if you care to change the game.
Also look at any forums. They are casting their votes their all the time. If its something that is doable and the votes are in majority for the change then more times out of not the company will try and make these changes. If you look their are patches all the times for games, those were votes at one time and became something. Just because you dont vote doesnt mean you get to complain about how you have no say in a matter afterwards.
Yes. Yes it is. All commercial games are P2W. They take money and give things. This provides benefits to those who pay (in exchange for money). This applies for all business models, and is a basic result of commerce. Anyone that claims otherwise is trying to sell you something...
However, different people like DIFFERENT forms of P2W. You have to decide what is acceptable to you, and go with it. P2W is not bad... in fact, it is what allows you (and others) to have these games to play. So, simply pick what works for you, and enjoy the game.
The free option you should only get a stick to fight with that breaks after ten hits.
Get a job if you can not afford 15 bucks a month you should not be playing games.
Agreed. A game has to have money to stay afloat, and I love mmos just as much as the next guy.
I will not, however, let a company decide how I play my games. Nor will I let them play with my psyche in the cash-grab scheme known as micro-transaction. Is a company worth millions really too scared to ask individuals for the money that the service they provide is worth? Of course they aren't. They're scared because they know we're aware of what it costs to build and host a game.. spoiler; it isn't millions.
Yes. Yes it is. All commercial games are P2W. They take money and give things. This provides benefits to those who pay (in exchange for money). This applies for all business models, and is a basic result of commerce. Anyone that claims otherwise is trying to sell you something...
However, different people like DIFFERENT forms of P2W. You have to decide what is acceptable to you, and go with it. P2W is not bad... in fact, it is what allows you (and others) to have these games to play. So, simply pick what works for you, and enjoy the game.
What about the games where I dont have to pay a dime and get all content for free? How am I paying to win there?
Yes. Yes it is. All commercial games are P2W. They take money and give things. This provides benefits to those who pay (in exchange for money). This applies for all business models, and is a basic result of commerce. Anyone that claims otherwise is trying to sell you something...
However, different people like DIFFERENT forms of P2W. You have to decide what is acceptable to you, and go with it. P2W is not bad... in fact, it is what allows you (and others) to have these games to play. So, simply pick what works for you, and enjoy the game.
The way you put things are easy to me:
- If with 15 bucks/month i have full acess to all features in game im ok, even i take more time to get there (playing 3h a day cant compete with ppl playing 8h or more for example)
- If 15 bucks is not enouph im out and will call it p2w.
Simple formula for me. About hows going to be in AA, for now seams ok but only time will tell whats going to hapened in Trion CS.
Lets for arguments sake say the game is P2W... totally P2W.... the most P2W game ever conceived. If you aren't playing the game 2 months after it's release, does it really matter?
And along those lines, what game are you playing now that has you looking elsewhere for some entertainment? Is it P2W? In the grand scheme of things, it's not whether a game is P2W that is making you move on from game to game, it's boredom.
This is just another game to pass some time away in until the next game comes along. That pretty much sums it up. Enjoy it while it's still new and move on like all the rest. If it's P2W, people are paying to win at a game that no one is really going to be playing all that long. Their money, their loss.
Lets for arguments sake say the game is P2W... totally P2W.... the most P2W game ever conceived. If you aren't playing the game 2 months after it's release, does it really matter?
And along those lines, what game are you playing now that has you looking elsewhere for some entertainment? Is it P2W? In the grand scheme of things, it's not whether a game is P2W that is making you move on from game to game, it's boredom.
This is just another game to pass some time away in until the next game comes along. That pretty much sums it up. Enjoy it while it's still new and move on like all the rest. If it's P2W, people are paying to win at a game that no one is really going to be playing all that long. Their money, their loss.
Is not that simple. one thing is give up a game after you get bored of gameplay or whatever feature, other is because for more you love the game the publish ruin your fun with same crazy CS policy.
Hapened to me in the pass, and im sure will hapened again, i just dont know yet in wich game...
Lets for arguments sake say the game is P2W... totally P2W.... the most P2W game ever conceived. If you aren't playing the game 2 months after it's release, does it really matter?
And along those lines, what game are you playing now that has you looking elsewhere for some entertainment? Is it P2W? In the grand scheme of things, it's not whether a game is P2W that is making you move on from game to game, it's boredom.
This is just another game to pass some time away in until the next game comes along. That pretty much sums it up. Enjoy it while it's still new and move on like all the rest. If it's P2W, people are paying to win at a game that no one is really going to be playing all that long. Their money, their loss.
As long as I don't pay more than $15/mo to play for full content then it's no different than any other sub game, but with increased population because of some free players.
So basically all that is going on in this thread is that those that are diehard fanboy's are changing what P2W means or excusing it as now its suddenly OK to do it for revenue because they like the game...while everything else is just P2W garbage for doing the same thing.
P2W is wrong, period and if you guys opened your eyes you could pressure Trion to make changes NOW, before the game goes live here.
There are 3 markets for this game right now. Japan, Russia and Trion's region.
The Russian version is doomed to be P2W, they love those types of games.
In Japan they know they have a limited amount of time to figure out which changes can be removed or altered to remove the P2W while having a revenue. F2P doesn't do well in Japan and P2W is hated. So, if they can do it fast enough before the large player base leaves, it will be a market for the game that is against P2W.
That leaves Trion. Open your damn mouths NOW and get Trion to do away with all the P2W changes.
That will open XL games eyes and get them to avoid making even more P2W changes in the future. That company doesn't understand that P2W does not do well in the west and you keeping your mouths shut are doing nothing but making sure that Archeage does NOT become a major hit here.
So if you actually LIKE the game, open your mouths and help it, get them to remove the P2W aspects. Revenue will come from other things that wont effect the game in a bad way.
Yes. Yes it is. All commercial games are P2W. They take money and give things. This provides benefits to those who pay (in exchange for money). This applies for all business models, and is a basic result of commerce. Anyone that claims otherwise is trying to sell you something...However, different people like DIFFERENT forms of P2W. You have to decide what is acceptable to you, and go with it. P2W is not bad... in fact, it is what allows you (and others) to have these games to play. So, simply pick what works for you, and enjoy the game.
What about the games where I dont have to pay a dime and get all content for free? How am I paying to win there?
P2W does not imply P2P... it just implies that you can pay money for something. P2P, B2P, F2P are all P2W, because they all have 'Pay' as an option. Any game that does not allow direct exchange of money for something (services, goods, etc) would qualify for non P2W. So, donating to a game, without anything in return is commercial, but not P2W. I am not aware of any game like this, but I could be wrong.
Yes. Yes it is. All commercial games are P2W. They take money and give things. This provides benefits to those who pay (in exchange for money). This applies for all business models, and is a basic result of commerce. Anyone that claims otherwise is trying to sell you something...However, different people like DIFFERENT forms of P2W. You have to decide what is acceptable to you, and go with it. P2W is not bad... in fact, it is what allows you (and others) to have these games to play. So, simply pick what works for you, and enjoy the game.
What about the games where I dont have to pay a dime and get all content for free? How am I paying to win there?
P2W does not imply P2P... it just implies that you can pay money for something. P2P, B2P, F2P are all P2W, because they all have 'Pay' as an option. Any game that does not allow direct exchange of money for something (services, goods, etc) would qualify for non P2W. So, donating to a game, without anything in return is commercial, but not P2W. I am not aware of any game like this, but I could be wrong.
How are you winning by paying this money? the W stands for win if you didnt know. So in a F2P where the only extra stuff is clothing. How is this winning?
Whether you are competing to have the most epic gear, finish world events first, or be the most profitable crafter, it's all competition, and anything you can buy that gives you an advantage against those that do not buy, is pay 2 win. Doesn't have to be PvP combat.
Ironically, leveling services and gold sellers, two things that players seem to shame others for the most, are the least p2w aspects where money will change hands. If you are buying money, then you aren't competing for it with others, and none of these games let you just buy the best gear, and if you are getting leveled, well everyone can get to max level eventually and there's little longterm reward for beating others there.
I hate P2W games. I have many, many posts on this site expressing my hate for them. Even so...I really have no problem with AA.
The thing I hate about P2W games is when you are forced to spend an unreasonable amount of money to compete, or you are forced to continue spending at an unreasonable schedule to compete. For example, I would hate an FPS game that made you buy an expendable item like ammo that does more damage for more money...or a powerup or something...that is terrible. That is bilking your customers for money in an almost "arcade machine" method.
But all AA asks is for a paltry $15.00 a month sub...big freaking deal. And it's not like the people that don't pay $15.00 a month are at a severe disadvantage in PvP anyway.
I think it's a good model...it's a sub game, but it allows people who can't afford the sub to still play with their friends.
I hate P2W games. I have many, many posts on this site expressing my hate for them. Even so...I really have no problem with AA.
The thing I hate about P2W games is when you are forced to spend an unreasonable amount of money to compete, or you are forced to continue spending at an unreasonable schedule to compete. For example, I would hate an FPS game that made you buy an expendable item like ammo that does more damage for more money...or a powerup or something...that is terrible. That is bilking your customers for money in an almost "arcade machine" method.
But all AA asks is for a paltry $15.00 a month sub...big freaking deal. And it's not like the people that don't pay $15.00 a month are at a severe disadvantage in PvP anyway.
I think it's a good model...it's a sub game, but it allows people who can't afford the sub to still play with their friends.
Correct, but what the whiners on this thread are complaining about is that it's called a Free to Play game and it's not 100% free and clear.
What I don't understand is when the HELL did people start thinking they can get shit for free?? How does a developer make money if they don't sell anything?
Either way it's useless trying to communicate this to these guys so I'm done worrying about it. Now I just need to make up my mind if I can wait for beta or not. $100 difference is quite significant.
Subscription != P2W, it's the entrance fee to compete.
Exactly. Im not sure why everyone is trying to change the meaning of P2W. People just continuously keep adding things to it to fit their ideal. It doesnt change the fact that it has a definition and no matter how much they think or wish it meant something else it doesnt.
Life is pay to win. Baseball is pay to win. AA, not so sure. Seems like you can spend OVER AND ABOVE the sub to get additional items/perks. This does sound a bit fishy, depending on what those items/perks are.
Comments
Many companies, corporations, ask "people", investors, for $ to make a product. It's called capitalism.
Again. Your view of the multiverse is terribly terribly flawed. Seek professional help.
So not pay to win?
Oh they're asking me if I want to have to pay to enjoy parts of the game?
As far as professional help goes, this was all I was willing to give in response to that as I'm still not sure if you're being sarcastic to emphasize the ignorance of the average person or if you're truly referring to the space in which you exist as "the multiverse" in earnest.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Capitalism: Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are controlled by private owners with the goal of making profits in a market economy.
If I own the means of production (the p2w fees which enable in-game economic advantages), I also make the decisions about what is being built (the game itself and it's microtransaction structure). Obviously, this is not what is happening. Again I wasn't sure if I should post in reply, because....honestly just.. put the Chronicles of Riddick down for a second and walk outside pls (this is not trolling, I have a genuine concern)
The free option you should only get a stick to fight with that breaks after ten hits.
Get a job if you can not afford 15 bucks a month you should not be playing games.
You do have a voice to what is put in a game. $15 worth, there just happens to be people that millions of dollars as their vote. Have you ever gotten stocks? Each stock is a vote, if someone has 51% of the vote then it doesnt really matter what you say, you still get the vote but it will never matter. Get more votes if you care to change the game.
Also look at any forums. They are casting their votes their all the time. If its something that is doable and the votes are in majority for the change then more times out of not the company will try and make these changes. If you look their are patches all the times for games, those were votes at one time and became something. Just because you dont vote doesnt mean you get to complain about how you have no say in a matter afterwards.
Yes. Yes it is. All commercial games are P2W. They take money and give things. This provides benefits to those who pay (in exchange for money). This applies for all business models, and is a basic result of commerce. Anyone that claims otherwise is trying to sell you something...
However, different people like DIFFERENT forms of P2W. You have to decide what is acceptable to you, and go with it. P2W is not bad... in fact, it is what allows you (and others) to have these games to play. So, simply pick what works for you, and enjoy the game.
Agreed. A game has to have money to stay afloat, and I love mmos just as much as the next guy.
I will not, however, let a company decide how I play my games. Nor will I let them play with my psyche in the cash-grab scheme known as micro-transaction. Is a company worth millions really too scared to ask individuals for the money that the service they provide is worth? Of course they aren't. They're scared because they know we're aware of what it costs to build and host a game.. spoiler; it isn't millions.
What about the games where I dont have to pay a dime and get all content for free? How am I paying to win there?
The way you put things are easy to me:
- If with 15 bucks/month i have full acess to all features in game im ok, even i take more time to get there (playing 3h a day cant compete with ppl playing 8h or more for example)
- If 15 bucks is not enouph im out and will call it p2w.
Simple formula for me. About hows going to be in AA, for now seams ok but only time will tell whats going to hapened in Trion CS.
Lets for arguments sake say the game is P2W... totally P2W.... the most P2W game ever conceived. If you aren't playing the game 2 months after it's release, does it really matter?
And along those lines, what game are you playing now that has you looking elsewhere for some entertainment? Is it P2W? In the grand scheme of things, it's not whether a game is P2W that is making you move on from game to game, it's boredom.
This is just another game to pass some time away in until the next game comes along. That pretty much sums it up. Enjoy it while it's still new and move on like all the rest. If it's P2W, people are paying to win at a game that no one is really going to be playing all that long. Their money, their loss.
Is not that simple. one thing is give up a game after you get bored of gameplay or whatever feature, other is because for more you love the game the publish ruin your fun with same crazy CS policy.
Hapened to me in the pass, and im sure will hapened again, i just dont know yet in wich game...
As long as I don't pay more than $15/mo to play for full content then it's no different than any other sub game, but with increased population because of some free players.
So basically all that is going on in this thread is that those that are diehard fanboy's are changing what P2W means or excusing it as now its suddenly OK to do it for revenue because they like the game...while everything else is just P2W garbage for doing the same thing.
P2W is wrong, period and if you guys opened your eyes you could pressure Trion to make changes NOW, before the game goes live here.
There are 3 markets for this game right now. Japan, Russia and Trion's region.
The Russian version is doomed to be P2W, they love those types of games.
In Japan they know they have a limited amount of time to figure out which changes can be removed or altered to remove the P2W while having a revenue. F2P doesn't do well in Japan and P2W is hated. So, if they can do it fast enough before the large player base leaves, it will be a market for the game that is against P2W.
That leaves Trion. Open your damn mouths NOW and get Trion to do away with all the P2W changes.
That will open XL games eyes and get them to avoid making even more P2W changes in the future. That company doesn't understand that P2W does not do well in the west and you keeping your mouths shut are doing nothing but making sure that Archeage does NOT become a major hit here.
So if you actually LIKE the game, open your mouths and help it, get them to remove the P2W aspects. Revenue will come from other things that wont effect the game in a bad way.
How are you winning by paying this money? the W stands for win if you didnt know. So in a F2P where the only extra stuff is clothing. How is this winning?
Whether you are competing to have the most epic gear, finish world events first, or be the most profitable crafter, it's all competition, and anything you can buy that gives you an advantage against those that do not buy, is pay 2 win. Doesn't have to be PvP combat.
Ironically, leveling services and gold sellers, two things that players seem to shame others for the most, are the least p2w aspects where money will change hands. If you are buying money, then you aren't competing for it with others, and none of these games let you just buy the best gear, and if you are getting leveled, well everyone can get to max level eventually and there's little longterm reward for beating others there.
@Stromannn
AA is not P2W game. Being playing it for 3 month now.
Thing is You can win if you know your class, even undergeard.
Game is about group play and how well your group knows its rolles.
Wish AA had servers for subs only. But it not a game braker, if it won`t.
<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg"; border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>
I hate P2W games. I have many, many posts on this site expressing my hate for them. Even so...I really have no problem with AA.
The thing I hate about P2W games is when you are forced to spend an unreasonable amount of money to compete, or you are forced to continue spending at an unreasonable schedule to compete. For example, I would hate an FPS game that made you buy an expendable item like ammo that does more damage for more money...or a powerup or something...that is terrible. That is bilking your customers for money in an almost "arcade machine" method.
But all AA asks is for a paltry $15.00 a month sub...big freaking deal. And it's not like the people that don't pay $15.00 a month are at a severe disadvantage in PvP anyway.
I think it's a good model...it's a sub game, but it allows people who can't afford the sub to still play with their friends.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Correct, but what the whiners on this thread are complaining about is that it's called a Free to Play game and it's not 100% free and clear.
What I don't understand is when the HELL did people start thinking they can get shit for free?? How does a developer make money if they don't sell anything?
Either way it's useless trying to communicate this to these guys so I'm done worrying about it. Now I just need to make up my mind if I can wait for beta or not. $100 difference is quite significant.
P2W means the more you pay, the more you win.
Subscription != P2W, it's the entrance fee to compete.
Exactly. Im not sure why everyone is trying to change the meaning of P2W. People just continuously keep adding things to it to fit their ideal. It doesnt change the fact that it has a definition and no matter how much they think or wish it meant something else it doesnt.