So kickstarter is growing it's own hobo culture where "developers" are nothing more than professional beggers and live one hand out campaign to the next ?
Anyone that knows anything about gaming should realize that Vanguard was a brilliant game,much better than most games out there,it's ONLY draw back was bugs
Then explain how it was so unpopular after the bugs were mostly squished but before SoE stopped development?
I played for a few months before the game was shutdown and there were still bugs in the game so they were far from squished.
I wanted to hop this would succeed and tried to give Brad the benefit of the doubt (despite not contributing towards it because I still had nowhere near enough hope or faith in Brad to put money towards it), but I somehow felt something like this would happen.
Honestly, fuck Brad. Since SoE, all he's done is ruin what he touches and lie through his teeth. First Vanguard with Sigil, and now this. Honestly, anyone who is still part of the cult of McQuaid blows my mind, because he's proven to be a pretty shitty person. He's got fantastic creativity and ideas, but the second he has to do anything other than come up with cool ideas, he fucks everything up on quite a grand scale.
Anyone that knows anything about gaming should realize that Vanguard was a brilliant game,much better than most games out there,it's ONLY draw back was bugs
Then explain how it was so unpopular after the bugs were mostly squished but before SoE stopped development?
Oh, that's probably because the bugs were never mostly squished. From my experience I'd be suprised if even 1/4th of the bugs were even worked on. Believe me I played it off and on until they announced the cancelation. It was still great albeit a total bugfest.
Nothing remotely gamebreaking though.
It wasnt the bugs that really hurt VG, it was the optimization and crashing. Things like several minute chunk times and constant dcs. This was fixed fairly quickly. The optimization was never great, but it was ok enough
The game just never felt right to me. good ideas, terrible execution.
Anyone that knows anything about gaming should realize that Vanguard was a brilliant game,much better than most games out there,it's ONLY draw back was bugs
Then explain how it was so unpopular after the bugs were mostly squished but before SoE stopped development?
Because MMO gamers are famously fickle and relentlessly unforgiving. Even if a MMO had actually made a significant improvement in all areas, they wouldn't know it because they would never take the time to check it out. They would, however, continue spouting about the same issues over and over - even long after those issues had been corrected.
Why?
Because many of them also *love* to see projects fail.
See, for example, the author of this "article", who basically wrote a smear piece with the sole intent of turning people away from the project, hurting its chances (slim as they might be to begin with) of ever getting made. It's a cheap blow, and a spiteful piece of writing. I'm amazed and disappointed that MMORPG actually published it. Something like that would earn you a "Warning" and certainly a "Mod Edit" on the forums.
Wow, totally not the tone of articles that I'm used to reading on this site. However, I think you're dead on. Just not used to reading something as concise here!
Originally posted by Samhael Wow, totally not the tone of articles that I'm used to reading on this site. However, I think you're dead on. Just not used to reading something as concise here!
It does not break the 1st MMORPG.com commandment: Thou shall not bad mouth a paid advertiser.
That is why it is actually both honest and non-complimentary.
It's sad because I would love to see a premium MMORPG come out in the old/classic style featuring almost all group-based play (almost no solo), challenge, difficulty, danger, etc. I really think you could take some of the classic ideals and blend them in with modern elements to make a great game, without necessarily doing it exactly like the classics (with tons of tedium, camp & grind, etc).
Unfortunately, I don't think Brad is the person to do it even if he's one of the few even trying. He's just had too spotty of a track record - no so much with bad ideas (although I think he's even more hard core than myself and that's not necessarily a good thing) but just because of lack of concrete success.
I also don't really like the lore ideas for Pantheon and don't see how anyone is going to make a quality modern MMORPG with an 850k kickstarter. I think what most of us want is a modern MMORPG with a classic feel, not a game so primative that it looks and plays like the 15 year old MMORPGs we used to love.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
I just hope the epic failure of Pantheon doesn't discourage other people from trying a group focused MMO. I think the market is out there, people just don't want it from Brad.
Anyone that knows anything about gaming should realize that Vanguard was a brilliant game,much better than most games out there,it's ONLY draw back was bugs
Then explain how it was so unpopular after the bugs were mostly squished but before SoE stopped development?
Because MMO gamers are famously fickle and relentlessly unforgiving. Even if a MMO had actually made a significant improvement in all areas, they wouldn't know it because they would never take the time to check it out. They would, however, continue spouting about the same issues over and over - even long after those issues had been corrected.
Why?
Because many of them also *love* to see projects fail.
See, for example, the author of this "article", who basically wrote a smear piece with the sole intent of turning people away from the project, hurting its chances (slim as they might be to begin with) of ever getting made. It's a cheap blow, and a spiteful piece of writing. I'm amazed and disappointed that MMORPG actually published it. Something like that would earn you a "Warning" and certainly a "Mod Edit" on the forums.
Well, do you disagree that McQuaid is one of the more polarizing and controversial names in MMOs? And do you disagree he has shown little to no management nor business competence? (he even mismanaged a Kickstarter attempt)
Seemed like an honest, objective article to me with no 'smearing' or spitefulness.
Anyone that knows anything about gaming should realize that Vanguard was a brilliant game,much better than most games out there,it's ONLY draw back was bugs
Then explain how it was so unpopular after the bugs were mostly squished but before SoE stopped development?
Because MMO gamers are famously fickle and relentlessly unforgiving. Even if a MMO had actually made a significant improvement in all areas, they wouldn't know it because they would never take the time to check it out. They would, however, continue spouting about the same issues over and over - even long after those issues had been corrected.
Why?
Because many of them also *love* to see projects fail.
See, for example, the author of this "article", who basically wrote a smear piece with the sole intent of turning people away from the project, hurting its chances (slim as they might be to begin with) of ever getting made. It's a cheap blow, and a spiteful piece of writing. I'm amazed and disappointed that MMORPG actually published it. Something like that would earn you a "Warning" and certainly a "Mod Edit" on the forums.
Well, do you disagree that McQuaid is one of the more polarizing and controversial names in MMOs? And do you disagree he has shown little to no management nor business competence? (he even mismanaged a Kickstarter attempt)
I think he's "polarizing" only for the reasons I stated above - people love to have someone to bash on. Because of Vanguard - which people lay 100% at his feet , even though it's been well revealed by now that the blame is shared by others whom he had to answer to - people feel like anything he does going forward is automatically going to end up the same way, and that he should never have a chance to try again.
To me, he's someone who's had great success in his career, and great trouble in his career. He's driven to create these kinds of games, and is doing what he can - poorly executed or otherwise - to continue doing it. I don't see him as "polarizing" at all. But again, I'm not out to bash the guy... because it's the "in thing to do". I tend to be more thoughtful and less of a sheep than that.
Regardless, someone being "polarizing" is not, nor should ever be, open season to smear them personally and openly the way this "author" does in their "article", and as many others do in their remarks.
It's one thing to say "The guy's got a great creative mind, but he really should not be leading a project". That's a fair opinion, given his history. If it stopped there, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
As for "his mismanagement of KS"... again... you are laying the blame solely at his feet. Were you not reading the interviews? Listening to the livestreams, etc - many of which he wasn't even present for? He is not working in a vacuum. He is part of a group of people in this project. All of them have a stake in this. All of them are contributing to it. And all of them share responsibility in how it's turned out so far. Yet, once again... everyone - including you - seem determined to focus only on Brad.. .because again... it's easier to hop on the bandwagon and bash the guy, than to be intellectually honest about it, and fair in the criticism"
Answer me this... Did you contribute to the post KS pledges on their website? Are you out any money personally? If no, then where is it your right to pass judgment on the guy or the project? You have contributed nothing to it. So what right do you have to sit here and speak of it? And don't tell me "well, what about those people who did contribute?" - That's their problem. Not yours. They made the donations. They knew what was at stake - they did it anyway. And, if you did contribute, then you too knew what the risks were before you did so.
Seemed like an honest, objective article to me with no 'smearing' or spitefulness.
Little surprise, considering you're clearly a passenger on the McQuaid Hatewagon. Your remarks are basically a talking points list of what everyone else says. I wouldn't expect you to see it any differently.
Anyone that knows anything about gaming should realize that Vanguard was a brilliant game,much better than most games out there,it's ONLY draw back was bugs
Then explain how it was so unpopular after the bugs were mostly squished but before SoE stopped development?
Because MMO gamers are famously fickle and relentlessly unforgiving. Even if a MMO had actually made a significant improvement in all areas, they wouldn't know it because they would never take the time to check it out. They would, however, continue spouting about the same issues over and over - even long after those issues had been corrected.
Why?
Because many of them also *love* to see projects fail.
See, for example, the author of this "article", who basically wrote a smear piece with the sole intent of turning people away from the project, hurting its chances (slim as they might be to begin with) of ever getting made. It's a cheap blow, and a spiteful piece of writing. I'm amazed and disappointed that MMORPG actually published it. Something like that would earn you a "Warning" and certainly a "Mod Edit" on the forums.
Well, do you disagree that McQuaid is one of the more polarizing and controversial names in MMOs? And do you disagree he has shown little to no management nor business competence? (he even mismanaged a Kickstarter attempt)
I think he's "polarizing" only for the reasons I stated above - people love to have someone to bash on and, because of Vanguard - which people lay 100% at his feet - even though it's been well revealed by now that others share the blame.
To me, he's someone who's had great success in his career, and great trouble in his career. He's driven to create these kinds of games, and is doing what he can - poorly executed or otherwise - to continue doing it. I don't see him as "polarizing" at all. But again, I'm not out to bash the guy... because it's the "in thing to do". I tend to be more thoughtful than that.
Regardless, someone being "polarizing" is not, nor should ever be, open season to smear them personally and openly the way this "author" does in their "article".
It's one thing to say "The guy's got a great creative mind, but he really should not be leading a project". That's a fair assessment, given his history. If it stopped there, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
As for "his mismanagement of KS"... again... you are laying the blame solely at his feet. Were you not reading the interviews? Listening to the livestreams, etc - many of which he wasn't even present for? He is not working in a vacuum. He is part of a group of people in this project. All of them have a stake in this. All of them are contributing to it. And all of them share responsibility in how it's turned out so far. Yet, once again... everyone - including you - seem determined to focus only on Brad.. .because again... it's easier to hop on the bandwagon and bash the guy, than to be intellectually honest about it, and fair in the criticism"
Answer me this... Did you contribute to the post KS pledges on their website? Are you out any money personally? If no, then where is it your right to pass judgment on the guy or the project? You have contributed nothing to it. So what right do you have to sit here and speak of it? And don't tell me "well, what about those people who did contribute?" - That's their problem. Not yours. They made the donations. They knew what was at stake - they did it anyway. And, if you did contribute, then you too knew what the risks were before you did so.
Seemed like an honest, objective article to me with no 'smearing' or spitefulness.
Little surprise, considering you're clearly a passenger on the McQuaid Hatewagon. Your remarks are basically a talking points list of what everyone else says. I wouldn't expect you to see it any differently.
I wonder if you're aware that on May 6th, Salim Grant (Pantheon lead developer) on a web radio show stated how poorly Brad mismanaged everything and took more than a third of the crowdfunded budget for his own 'salary'.
He also warned volunteers about Brad and to contact him to see any financial documents which show what Brad did.
It's bad when the former lead developer and friend of Brad is saying this stuff. This article goes really light on Brad considering.
Good read and the truth is always the way to go when dealing with someone like Brad. I agree he probably is a great guy but he will never be a business man. A lot of us called it right from the start about him and me being one I don't get much joy in it. The guy is and idea man and he was great way back when. But today Brad is that guy you see walking down the street and you run to the other side to avoid him.
Originally posted by asmkm22 5 months pay? No, by all accounts it was 3 months.
Makes it worse. He took over 1/3 of the crowdfunded money and put it in his pocket. That's the equivalent to $180,000 for yearly salary.
While Brad was doing that, the rest of the employees weren't getting paid (some stated they had not had a paycheck since September 2013). Most had to take other jobs on the side to pay for living expenses. Once they found out how bad the financial situation was, there was a mass exodus of employees. They didn't want another 'parking lot' meeting.
And at one point Brad stated he was going to sell some personal assets to put money back into the company; including a sports car because he 'counted his chickens before they hatched'.
Salim Grant (lead project developer) confirmed Brad never sold off personal assets to help the company and employees.
Originally posted by Samhael Wow, totally not the tone of articles that I'm used to reading on this site. However, I think you're dead on. Just not used to reading something as concise here!
It does not break the 1st MMORPG.com commandment: Thou shall not bad mouth a paid advertiser.
That is why it is actually both honest and non-complimentary.
Have to admit I was shocked and pleasantly surprised.
It is so rare these days to see a game journalist actually show integrity and honesty especially on this site.
Oh and amazingly do their own homework rather just parroting the press release the game developers send them.
VERY nice change and the kind of thing that makes me support the site.
Having met Brad I got the impression that he was a decent designer and an okay guy in a general setting. Because of that it was with mixed feelings when I saw Pantheon pop up on Kickstarter I knew it was dead on arrival.
I don't understand this quote taken from the original article. Is the author trying to say, because he met Brad he knew the Pantheon Kickstarter was dead on arrival? How did he know? Because Brad was "a decent designer and an okay guy"?
I don't see how one relates to the other. I guess I'm confused by the meaning of these sentences. Am I missing something...
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. If all that is ever said is this guy and what he does is crap, then all people are gonna see when they look is crap. It will be that way whether it's true or not.
The guy is trying to make a game. It's hard, especially so for Brad with all the shade people throw his way. He has made mistakes, and will probably make more. Last I checked, he is human, and therefore not perfect.
I say give him a little room to breath, even if you happen to hate him. I think the game has a better chance to be made if every media outlet and their respective commenters aren't trying to get their punches in. Then the game will speak for itself, as it should be.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. If all that is ever said is this guy and what he does is crap, then all people are gonna see when they look is crap. It will be that way whether it's true or not.
The guy is trying to make a game. It's hard, especially so for Brad with all the shade people throw his way. He has made mistakes, and will probably make more. Last I checked, he is human, and therefore not perfect.
I say give him a little room to breath, even if you happen to hate him. I think the game has a better chance to be made if every media outlet and their respective commenters aren't trying to get their punches in. Then the game will speak for itself, as it should be.
People always deserve second chances but Brad just used his on this project. Employees that were personal friends six months ago no longer are because of how he mismanaged everything.
And now former employees (and friends), including the lead developer, are warning potential 'volunteers' about working with Brad.
Comments
So kickstarter is growing it's own hobo culture where "developers" are nothing more than professional beggers and live one hand out campaign to the next ?
I played for a few months before the game was shutdown and there were still bugs in the game so they were far from squished.
Smile
I wanted to hop this would succeed and tried to give Brad the benefit of the doubt (despite not contributing towards it because I still had nowhere near enough hope or faith in Brad to put money towards it), but I somehow felt something like this would happen.
Honestly, fuck Brad. Since SoE, all he's done is ruin what he touches and lie through his teeth. First Vanguard with Sigil, and now this. Honestly, anyone who is still part of the cult of McQuaid blows my mind, because he's proven to be a pretty shitty person. He's got fantastic creativity and ideas, but the second he has to do anything other than come up with cool ideas, he fucks everything up on quite a grand scale.
In the words of Jay Wilson, "Fuck that loser."
Can anyone say- vaporware?
Who in their right mind would throw away their money on a project that will never see the light of day?
Nothing remotely gamebreaking though.
It wasnt the bugs that really hurt VG, it was the optimization and crashing. Things like several minute chunk times and constant dcs. This was fixed fairly quickly. The optimization was never great, but it was ok enough
The game just never felt right to me. good ideas, terrible execution.
K-TAM Radio
Because MMO gamers are famously fickle and relentlessly unforgiving. Even if a MMO had actually made a significant improvement in all areas, they wouldn't know it because they would never take the time to check it out. They would, however, continue spouting about the same issues over and over - even long after those issues had been corrected.
Why?
Because many of them also *love* to see projects fail.
See, for example, the author of this "article", who basically wrote a smear piece with the sole intent of turning people away from the project, hurting its chances (slim as they might be to begin with) of ever getting made. It's a cheap blow, and a spiteful piece of writing. I'm amazed and disappointed that MMORPG actually published it. Something like that would earn you a "Warning" and certainly a "Mod Edit" on the forums.
It does not break the 1st MMORPG.com commandment: Thou shall not bad mouth a paid advertiser.
That is why it is actually both honest and non-complimentary.
It's sad because I would love to see a premium MMORPG come out in the old/classic style featuring almost all group-based play (almost no solo), challenge, difficulty, danger, etc. I really think you could take some of the classic ideals and blend them in with modern elements to make a great game, without necessarily doing it exactly like the classics (with tons of tedium, camp & grind, etc).
Unfortunately, I don't think Brad is the person to do it even if he's one of the few even trying. He's just had too spotty of a track record - no so much with bad ideas (although I think he's even more hard core than myself and that's not necessarily a good thing) but just because of lack of concrete success.
I also don't really like the lore ideas for Pantheon and don't see how anyone is going to make a quality modern MMORPG with an 850k kickstarter. I think what most of us want is a modern MMORPG with a classic feel, not a game so primative that it looks and plays like the 15 year old MMORPGs we used to love.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Well, do you disagree that McQuaid is one of the more polarizing and controversial names in MMOs? And do you disagree he has shown little to no management nor business competence? (he even mismanaged a Kickstarter attempt)
Seemed like an honest, objective article to me with no 'smearing' or spitefulness.
I wonder if you're aware that on May 6th, Salim Grant (Pantheon lead developer) on a web radio show stated how poorly Brad mismanaged everything and took more than a third of the crowdfunded budget for his own 'salary'.
He also warned volunteers about Brad and to contact him to see any financial documents which show what Brad did.
It's bad when the former lead developer and friend of Brad is saying this stuff. This article goes really light on Brad considering.
This is a perfect example of what happens when you give money to a drug addict.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
You make me like charity
Makes it worse. He took over 1/3 of the crowdfunded money and put it in his pocket. That's the equivalent to $180,000 for yearly salary.
While Brad was doing that, the rest of the employees weren't getting paid (some stated they had not had a paycheck since September 2013). Most had to take other jobs on the side to pay for living expenses. Once they found out how bad the financial situation was, there was a mass exodus of employees. They didn't want another 'parking lot' meeting.
And at one point Brad stated he was going to sell some personal assets to put money back into the company; including a sports car because he 'counted his chickens before they hatched'.
Salim Grant (lead project developer) confirmed Brad never sold off personal assets to help the company and employees.
Have to admit I was shocked and pleasantly surprised.
It is so rare these days to see a game journalist actually show integrity and honesty especially on this site.
Oh and amazingly do their own homework rather just parroting the press release the game developers send them.
VERY nice change and the kind of thing that makes me support the site.
If it was $45,000 for 5 months or $45,000 for 3 months would it really make that big of a difference?
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I don't understand this quote taken from the original article. Is the author trying to say, because he met Brad he knew the Pantheon Kickstarter was dead on arrival? How did he know? Because Brad was "a decent designer and an okay guy"?
I don't see how one relates to the other. I guess I'm confused by the meaning of these sentences. Am I missing something...
Perhaps someone can help clarify?
I get so tired of people crapping on this guy.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. If all that is ever said is this guy and what he does is crap, then all people are gonna see when they look is crap. It will be that way whether it's true or not.
The guy is trying to make a game. It's hard, especially so for Brad with all the shade people throw his way. He has made mistakes, and will probably make more. Last I checked, he is human, and therefore not perfect.
I say give him a little room to breath, even if you happen to hate him. I think the game has a better chance to be made if every media outlet and their respective commenters aren't trying to get their punches in. Then the game will speak for itself, as it should be.
People always deserve second chances but Brad just used his on this project. Employees that were personal friends six months ago no longer are because of how he mismanaged everything.
And now former employees (and friends), including the lead developer, are warning potential 'volunteers' about working with Brad.