I'm v2 templar. Either the class dps is low or I don't play to potential, and I find the resulting content enjoyably challenging. Vs single mob, no problem. Vs 2 mobs, no problem. Vs 3 mobs, might need to eat a soulstone to beat them. No complaints.
Originally posted by Timzilla I'm v2 templar. Either the class dps is low or I don't play to potential, and I find the resulting content enjoyably challenging. Vs single mob, no problem. Vs 2 mobs, no problem. Vs 3 mobs, might need to eat a soulstone to beat them. No complaints.
The complaints about vet content are not really about open world stuff (this is easy - after all you can always call for help). Problem is when you get mix of all three:
- balance of your class and / or not working skills / passives
- badly balanced mechanics of boss (when you do solo instance)
- boss mechanics that are supposed to work for player but they don't work at all (see Lyris fight and what ppl are complaining about there)
And then when you add that vet content is a little bit tougher then even if despite all above player can do fight on normal difficulty level then veteran encounter may be a totally different story. That's the problem, not 2 or three louse mobs lurking around (unless you mean some particular atronachs ofc - this may be different)
It is more work, less reward, and you are punished for not CC locking mobs or having massive sustain. Trying to use my straight DPS build I preplanned has absolutely no viability in ESOs vet content. I needed to conform and get Critical Surge, throw Crystal Fragments on my bar along with degeneration. Sustain and CC locking is key for soloing Vet content, maybe a mezz will help as well.
Originally posted by Mange1 It is more work, less reward, and you are punished for not CC locking mobs or having massive sustain. Trying to use my straight DPS build I preplanned has absolutely no viability in ESOs vet content. I needed to conform and get Critical Surge, throw Crystal Fragments on my bar along with degeneration. Sustain and CC locking is key for soloing Vet content, maybe a mezz will help as well.
Thats a very good point Mange. Players got used to level with their hand on the back and with pure pew-pew-dps builds. No one uses CC because its not what the latest games have teached you.
Think. Adapt your build, get some cc >>> win
The whining about VR content being too difficult reminds of the whining in TSW when people tried to do Blue Mountain with their pure dps builds and got crushed there. I still think its very good to give CC a purpose in leveling content too.
Originally posted by Mange1 It is more work, less reward, and you are punished for not CC locking mobs or having massive sustain. Trying to use my straight DPS build I preplanned has absolutely no viability in ESOs vet content. I needed to conform and get Critical Surge, throw Crystal Fragments on my bar along with degeneration. Sustain and CC locking is key for soloing Vet content, maybe a mezz will help as well.
Thats a very good point Mange. Players got used to level with their hand on the back and with pure pew-pew-dps builds. No one uses CC because its not what the latest games have teached you.
Think. Adapt your build, get some cc >>> win
The whining about VR content being too difficult reminds of the whining in TSW when people tried to do Blue Mountain with their pure dps builds and got crushed there. I still think its very good to give CC a purpose in leveling content too.
Well there was no update for shield yet, so 90% are playing shield bash noob style. Guess VR content for them is not hard at all:)
Originally posted by Mange1 It is more work, less reward, and you are punished for not CC locking mobs or having massive sustain. Trying to use my straight DPS build I preplanned has absolutely no viability in ESOs vet content. I needed to conform and get Critical Surge, throw Crystal Fragments on my bar along with degeneration. Sustain and CC locking is key for soloing Vet content, maybe a mezz will help as well.
Thats a very good point Mange. Players got used to level with their hand on the back and with pure pew-pew-dps builds. No one uses CC because its not what the latest games have teached you.
Think. Adapt your build, get some cc >>> win
The whining about VR content being too difficult reminds of the whining in TSW when people tried to do Blue Mountain with their pure dps builds and got crushed there. I still think its very good to give CC a purpose in leveling content too.
Well there was no update for shield yet, so 90% are playing shield bash noob style. Guess VR content for them is not hard at all:)
I see very few in pve that are 1h and shield. To say 90% are is a blatant lie.
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing. PS3
Originally posted by Mange1 It is more work, less reward, and you are punished for not CC locking mobs or having massive sustain. Trying to use my straight DPS build I preplanned has absolutely no viability in ESOs vet content. I needed to conform and get Critical Surge, throw Crystal Fragments on my bar along with degeneration. Sustain and CC locking is key for soloing Vet content, maybe a mezz will help as well.
Thats a very good point Mange. Players got used to level with their hand on the back and with pure pew-pew-dps builds. No one uses CC because its not what the latest games have teached you.
Think. Adapt your build, get some cc >>> win
The whining about VR content being too difficult reminds of the whining in TSW when people tried to do Blue Mountain with their pure dps builds and got crushed there. I still think its very good to give CC a purpose in leveling content too.
Well there was no update for shield yet, so 90% are playing shield bash noob style. Guess VR content for them is not hard at all:)
Overusing bash with a shield build is one thing, not bashing at all to interrupt with whatever weapon you use is the real noob style.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I had trouble with bash until I remapped the keys, as it was too easy for me to let go of one button or the other too quickly and to do things that I didn't want to do.
Originally posted by ohioastro I had trouble with bash until I remapped the keys, as it was too easy for me to let go of one button or the other too quickly and to do things that I didn't want to do.
I didn't remap but it did take a while for it to become instinctive... the key to using it in its default config is RMB (block) first and then LMB.
If you try to hit both simultaneously you're just as likely to hit the LMB first and that's a light swing followed by a block instead of a bash.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Xarko so "cant faceroll" means hard these days ?
No, not fun means hard these days. 75% of players are casual like me, I play to have fun, to forget a bad day, to relax, to enjoy something but when that enjoyment becomes a shore and an eternal grind I close my wallet and pack my bags and leave.
I'm in the "there's no content too hard" group, and I'm just a casual gamer at this point in my life - with a little stretch of hardcore here and there. I do, however, think the VR content isn't tuned very well. When I was still playing I felt like it was just a way of channeling everyone into a cookie-cutter mold if they wanted to still solo without dying frequently. Break out your lightsabers. To me this didn't really represent difficulty. There's a difference between making things challenging and making them difficult, if that makes any sense.
The VR grind simply made me feel like my weapon/armor upgrades didn't really make a difference in how battles went. That's never a good thing for a game, and one of the reasons I ultimately decided not to renew for now. I would have been completely okay with lowering enemy damage a bit, and having the difference between VR and regular levels be that mobs simply have better AI - like they learned to dodge, or coordinate in some manner. But that's likely asking too much from Zenimax.
All I can say is, thank goodness the content gets harder. I duo with my son and we roll through quests levels above us like a hot knife through butter. It will be fun to slow down a bit for more of a challenge.
People having trouble should just group up for the troublespots. That's what guilds and lfg are for. If there are a lot of folks having troubles, it should be easy to find people doing the same content as you.
For someone like me that had his fill of questing from 1-50, ya it was too hard. I had no desire to go through the vr lvl's at all. But means as i had to, i would have been much happier if it was the same difficulty as 1-50. It just makes the grind that much worse.
If the content is enjoyable, I don't think difficulty will play that much of a factor.
When a developer takes mediocre leveling content and simply boosts the HP on mobs to artificially lengthen the leveling process, it feels a lot more like a chore.
Rift ran into the same problem with their 50--60 content. The mobs took too long to kill making questing / leveling more of a chore than it needed to be.
Ya my thoughts exactly. I really like teso but it was a bad move to put in veteran content, but i guess they had too as there is nothing to do really at endgame. I mean i can only run the same 6 dungeons so many times. Craglorn can't come fast enough.
I don't think it's too hard but I do agree that it's very different from the 1-50 game in some very important ways.
IDK about you guys but a big part of the reason I play RPGs, including mmorpgs is character advancement and development. In ESO it's not all about levels due to the skill point system but it's still very much about development: getting that next skill you want to use... that next passive...
In the 1-50 game play that happens at a good pace and you get those little rewards often enough to keep you satisfied and motivated. But in the VR ranks that slows down to a crawl and you can play for several hours without any of those rewards.
I still remember when the quest through the other alliance areas change was announced. It was done mostly in response to fan criticism about needing to roll alts to see the other areas. It was a compromise I never liked since I was perfectly happy with what others considered controversial: walled-off alliance areas.
But I shrugged it off since at that time all indications pointed to that method being just one of many choices for advancement. Advancement through PVP and adventure zones were at that time thought to be level 50 gameplay alternatives. But that wasn't how it was implemented.
The re-purposing of adventure zones as VR10 content, the uselessly slow advancement through PVP and the fact that a VR10 owns a VR1--all else being equal--in PVP changed the quest through the other alliance areas from one of several optional level 50 things to do to a compulsory part of the leveling process... and adventure zones are going to make it all that much worse since they take you from VR10 to VR12... in other words, we will now also have compulsory raiding in order to be competitive in PVP.
A lot of this nonsense could have been avoided if they had only stuck with their original level 50 gameplay plan. And it could still be fixed by capping PVP levels at 50.
Don't get me wrong, I still like this game very much and for me the good stuff far outweighs the bad. I just wish they had stuck to their guns. It seems that every time they make a change due to "popular demand" it's a change for the worse... the latest example being the non-compulsory nature of starter areas that make the stories somewhat disjointed and leave many new players who skip them unknowingly wondering why their build sucks so much when it's all just level 3s trying to do level 6 content because they don't know any better.
So for me it's not a matter of it being too hard in the VR zones. it's more the feeling of having no alternative and the slow as hell advancement.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
If the content is enjoyable, I don't think difficulty will play that much of a factor.
When a developer takes mediocre leveling content and simply boosts the HP on mobs to artificially lengthen the leveling process, it feels a lot more like a chore.
Rift ran into the same problem with their 50--60 content. The mobs took too long to kill making questing / leveling more of a chore than it needed to be.
Actually Rift is not that good example - you could just gear up with atleast some level 50 purples which were easily obtainable at 50 to make start less demanding. In here you have no such option for real. In Rift at level 50 you get to see new areas, do new quests and so on. In TESO it's all the same content, just repacked.
Not going to defend Rift as Trion did lots of wrongs with all content there. But still it's disturbing that new devs don't learn on mistakes made by others and add their own mistakes to already quite big pool.
If it's too hard for you at VR levels, time to review your build. You NEED CC, hard CCs, stuns, knockbacks, roots, and moar stuns. you have to build your char for PvE mob grinding and be able to survive packs of 3 mobs easily.
Then you level up your other skills when turning in quests, using some addon to quickly swap them in / out.
But for getting from point A to B and or killing some dungeon boss solo, use a specific build.
Fortunately for me I picked Sorc as main char so it was quite OP and some skills completely own PvE (bolt escape + AoE stun + decent damage LAWL) and PvP as well.
All of that said, I quit ESO because it was just not fun. Questing got boring, PvP got dull with the zones much emptier than at release. Not much solo roaming around to be had anymore, became zerg zerg zerg. When my guildmates started talking about joining in on the zerg efforts I called it quit. Yeah sure a grp of 4 can,t do anything vs a zerg, but rarely have we been encountering other grps of 4, it was always us 4 vs a solo guy or us 4 getting uncovered by a much bigger group of foes.
Oh and I quit at VR4, such a long grind to get there I couldn't take it anymore.
I don't think it's too hard but I do agree that it's very different from the 1-50 game in some very important ways.
IDK about you guys but a big part of the reason I play RPGs, including mmorpgs is character advancement and development. In ESO it's not all about levels due to the skill point system but it's still very much about development: getting that next skill you want to use... that next passive...
In the 1-50 game play that happens at a good pace and you get those little rewards often enough to keep you satisfied and motivated. But in the VR ranks that slows down to a crawl and you can play for several hours without any of those rewards.
I still remember when the quest through the other alliance areas change was announced. It was done mostly in response to fan criticism about needing to roll alts to see the other areas. It was a compromise I never liked since I was perfectly happy with what others considered controversial: walled-off alliance areas.
But I shrugged it off since at that time all indications pointed to that method being just one of many choices for advancement. Advancement through PVP and adventure zones were at that time thought to be level 50 gameplay alternatives. But that wasn't how it was implemented.
The re-purposing of adventure zones as VR10 content, the uselessly slow advancement through PVP and the fact that a VR10 owns a VR1--all else being equal--in PVP changed the quest through the other alliance areas from one of several optional level 50 things to do to a compulsory part of the leveling process... and adventure zones are going to make it all that much worse since they take you from VR10 to VR12... in other words, we will now also have compulsory raiding in order to be competitive in PVP.
A lot of this nonsense could have been avoided if they had only stuck with their original level 50 gameplay plan. And it could still be fixed by capping PVP levels at 50.
Don't get me wrong, I still like this game very much and for me the good stuff far outweighs the bad. I just wish they had stuck to their guns. It seems that every time they make a change due to "popular demand" it's a change for the worse... the latest example being the non-compulsory nature of starter areas that make the stories somewhat disjointed and leave many new players who skip them unknowingly wondering why their build sucks so much when it's all just level 3s trying to do level 6 content because they don't know any better.
So for me it's not a matter of it being too hard in the VR zones. it's more the feeling of having no alternative and the slow as hell advancement.
Feel exactly the same. I don't care about levels, I care about having fun. In fact, I'm sick to death of power progression in mmo's.
I don't think it's too hard but I do agree that it's very different from the 1-50 game in some very important ways. IDK about you guys but a big part of the reason I play RPGs, including mmorpgs is character advancement and development. In ESO it's not all about levels due to the skill point system but it's still very much about development: getting that next skill you want to use... that next passive... In the 1-50 game play that happens at a good pace and you get those little rewards often enough to keep you satisfied and motivated. But in the VR ranks that slows down to a crawl and you can play for several hours without any of those rewards. I still remember when the quest through the other alliance areas change was announced. It was done mostly in response to fan criticism about needing to roll alts to see the other areas. It was a compromise I never liked since I was perfectly happy with what others considered controversial: walled-off alliance areas. But I shrugged it off since at that time all indications pointed to that method being just one of many choices for advancement. Advancement through PVP and adventure zones were at that time thought to be level 50 gameplay alternatives. But that wasn't how it was implemented. The re-purposing of adventure zones as VR10 content, the uselessly slow advancement through PVP and the fact that a VR10 owns a VR1--all else being equal--in PVP changed the quest through the other alliance areas from one of several optional level 50 things to do to a compulsory part of the leveling process... and adventure zones are going to make it all that much worse since they take you from VR10 to VR12... in other words, we will now also have compulsory raiding in order to be competitive in PVP. A lot of this nonsense could have been avoided if they had only stuck with their original level 50 gameplay plan. And it could still be fixed by capping PVP levels at 50. Don't get me wrong, I still like this game very much and for me the good stuff far outweighs the bad. I just wish they had stuck to their guns. It seems that every time they make a change due to "popular demand" it's a change for the worse... the latest example being the non-compulsory nature of starter areas that make the stories somewhat disjointed and leave many new players who skip them unknowingly wondering why their build sucks so much when it's all just level 3s trying to do level 6 content because they don't know any better. So for me it's not a matter of it being too hard in the VR zones. it's more the feeling of having no alternative and the slow as hell advancement.
I agree. I thought the 50+/50++ was an option for those that wanted questing as end game. Then Veteran dungeons and PvP were the other two options for VR leveling. Never should force anyone to play one way only. Each option should have given similar rewards and skill points over time. Even though I am enjoying the VR leveling, it was a bad choice.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Comments
The complaints about vet content are not really about open world stuff (this is easy - after all you can always call for help). Problem is when you get mix of all three:
- balance of your class and / or not working skills / passives
- badly balanced mechanics of boss (when you do solo instance)
- boss mechanics that are supposed to work for player but they don't work at all (see Lyris fight and what ppl are complaining about there)
And then when you add that vet content is a little bit tougher then even if despite all above player can do fight on normal difficulty level then veteran encounter may be a totally different story. That's the problem, not 2 or three louse mobs lurking around (unless you mean some particular atronachs ofc - this may be different)
Thats a very good point Mange. Players got used to level with their hand on the back and with pure pew-pew-dps builds. No one uses CC because its not what the latest games have teached you.
Think. Adapt your build, get some cc >>> win
The whining about VR content being too difficult reminds of the whining in TSW when people tried to do Blue Mountain with their pure dps builds and got crushed there. I still think its very good to give CC a purpose in leveling content too.
Hodor!
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
Well there was no update for shield yet, so 90% are playing shield bash noob style. Guess VR content for them is not hard at all:)
I see very few in pve that are 1h and shield. To say 90% are is a blatant lie.
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
Overusing bash with a shield build is one thing, not bashing at all to interrupt with whatever weapon you use is the real noob style.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I didn't remap but it did take a while for it to become instinctive... the key to using it in its default config is RMB (block) first and then LMB.
If you try to hit both simultaneously you're just as likely to hit the LMB first and that's a light swing followed by a block instead of a bash.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
No, not fun means hard these days. 75% of players are casual like me, I play to have fun, to forget a bad day, to relax, to enjoy something but when that enjoyment becomes a shore and an eternal grind I close my wallet and pack my bags and leave.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
I'm in the "there's no content too hard" group, and I'm just a casual gamer at this point in my life - with a little stretch of hardcore here and there. I do, however, think the VR content isn't tuned very well. When I was still playing I felt like it was just a way of channeling everyone into a cookie-cutter mold if they wanted to still solo without dying frequently. Break out your lightsabers. To me this didn't really represent difficulty. There's a difference between making things challenging and making them difficult, if that makes any sense.
The VR grind simply made me feel like my weapon/armor upgrades didn't really make a difference in how battles went. That's never a good thing for a game, and one of the reasons I ultimately decided not to renew for now. I would have been completely okay with lowering enemy damage a bit, and having the difference between VR and regular levels be that mobs simply have better AI - like they learned to dodge, or coordinate in some manner. But that's likely asking too much from Zenimax.
- Nellus
All I can say is, thank goodness the content gets harder. I duo with my son and we roll through quests levels above us like a hot knife through butter. It will be fun to slow down a bit for more of a challenge.
People having trouble should just group up for the troublespots. That's what guilds and lfg are for. If there are a lot of folks having troubles, it should be easy to find people doing the same content as you.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
If the content is enjoyable, I don't think difficulty will play that much of a factor.
When a developer takes mediocre leveling content and simply boosts the HP on mobs to artificially lengthen the leveling process, it feels a lot more like a chore.
Rift ran into the same problem with their 50--60 content. The mobs took too long to kill making questing / leveling more of a chore than it needed to be.
I don't think it's too hard but I do agree that it's very different from the 1-50 game in some very important ways.
IDK about you guys but a big part of the reason I play RPGs, including mmorpgs is character advancement and development. In ESO it's not all about levels due to the skill point system but it's still very much about development: getting that next skill you want to use... that next passive...
In the 1-50 game play that happens at a good pace and you get those little rewards often enough to keep you satisfied and motivated. But in the VR ranks that slows down to a crawl and you can play for several hours without any of those rewards.
I still remember when the quest through the other alliance areas change was announced. It was done mostly in response to fan criticism about needing to roll alts to see the other areas. It was a compromise I never liked since I was perfectly happy with what others considered controversial: walled-off alliance areas.
But I shrugged it off since at that time all indications pointed to that method being just one of many choices for advancement. Advancement through PVP and adventure zones were at that time thought to be level 50 gameplay alternatives. But that wasn't how it was implemented.
The re-purposing of adventure zones as VR10 content, the uselessly slow advancement through PVP and the fact that a VR10 owns a VR1--all else being equal--in PVP changed the quest through the other alliance areas from one of several optional level 50 things to do to a compulsory part of the leveling process... and adventure zones are going to make it all that much worse since they take you from VR10 to VR12... in other words, we will now also have compulsory raiding in order to be competitive in PVP.
A lot of this nonsense could have been avoided if they had only stuck with their original level 50 gameplay plan. And it could still be fixed by capping PVP levels at 50.
Don't get me wrong, I still like this game very much and for me the good stuff far outweighs the bad. I just wish they had stuck to their guns. It seems that every time they make a change due to "popular demand" it's a change for the worse... the latest example being the non-compulsory nature of starter areas that make the stories somewhat disjointed and leave many new players who skip them unknowingly wondering why their build sucks so much when it's all just level 3s trying to do level 6 content because they don't know any better.
So for me it's not a matter of it being too hard in the VR zones. it's more the feeling of having no alternative and the slow as hell advancement.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Actually Rift is not that good example - you could just gear up with atleast some level 50 purples which were easily obtainable at 50 to make start less demanding. In here you have no such option for real. In Rift at level 50 you get to see new areas, do new quests and so on. In TESO it's all the same content, just repacked.
Not going to defend Rift as Trion did lots of wrongs with all content there. But still it's disturbing that new devs don't learn on mistakes made by others and add their own mistakes to already quite big pool.
Too hard ? Nahh
If it's too hard for you at VR levels, time to review your build. You NEED CC, hard CCs, stuns, knockbacks, roots, and moar stuns. you have to build your char for PvE mob grinding and be able to survive packs of 3 mobs easily.
Then you level up your other skills when turning in quests, using some addon to quickly swap them in / out.
But for getting from point A to B and or killing some dungeon boss solo, use a specific build.
Fortunately for me I picked Sorc as main char so it was quite OP and some skills completely own PvE (bolt escape + AoE stun + decent damage LAWL) and PvP as well.
All of that said, I quit ESO because it was just not fun. Questing got boring, PvP got dull with the zones much emptier than at release. Not much solo roaming around to be had anymore, became zerg zerg zerg. When my guildmates started talking about joining in on the zerg efforts I called it quit. Yeah sure a grp of 4 can,t do anything vs a zerg, but rarely have we been encountering other grps of 4, it was always us 4 vs a solo guy or us 4 getting uncovered by a much bigger group of foes.
Oh and I quit at VR4, such a long grind to get there I couldn't take it anymore.
Feel exactly the same. I don't care about levels, I care about having fun. In fact, I'm sick to death of power progression in mmo's.
I agree. I thought the 50+/50++ was an option for those that wanted questing as end game. Then Veteran dungeons and PvP were the other two options for VR leveling. Never should force anyone to play one way only. Each option should have given similar rewards and skill points over time. Even though I am enjoying the VR leveling, it was a bad choice.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore