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[Column] General: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
We would all love to see MMOs take new risks and new directions. While the standard formula is good, and games like WildStar are set to deliver top notch experiences based on the theme park model, most of us are jaded enough to want something different.
Read more of Mark Kern's Can We Make Quests Matter Again.
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Comments
Wrong answer.
Actually, I would like to see fewer quests but make the ones that do exist long, involved, and rewarding. I prefer not to do quests and I'd rather do other things to level my character or skills. I want quest lines like the ones in everquest 1 where you earned armor over time or your epic weapons.
If quests randomly appeared to players, and you *wished* that you were chosen to accept such a thing. that the loot was overly rare from finishing the quest, and that it was more than worth your time to complete it.
sure.
http://twitch.tv/woetothevanquished
When AI reaches the point where it can effectively play the role of a tabletop GM, even if limited to a text interface, I'd eagerly and regularly throw money at it. The idea of a GM who always has a story waiting is exactly what got me playing MUDs in the 90s. What I've since found in online gaming hasn't really been what I originally went looking for, but a sophisticated enough AI could conceivably be my holy grail. Or robot overlord. Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe.
That said, I think what I'm really looking for is well outside the foreseeable future; re-framing data as newsbytes is a far cry from establishing evolving characters and compelling story arcs, then convincingly shaping each of those with player agency. The Narrative Science idea sounds like the first step along an interesting path, however, and certainly an improvement upon the industry standard of the moment.
Voiced quests are worthless if the quest is badly written which sadly seems to be the norm in most games or writers use modern day morals in a middle age/fantasy settings where that way of thinking has no place( ex. ESO sending you to repeat the quest grind for other factions to "understand" the point of view of your enemy - yes,it makes a lot of sense from a RP point of view to kill your own faction heroes /sarcasm). If someone wants less quests I hope he or she is also happy with faster leveling because the days of players being happy to grind thousands of monsters in same area to gain 1 level with no reason/story for that are long gone.
About A.I. part - I hope we reach a point where A.I can recreate worlds/stories based on books (like in Star Trek holodeck) so games will have more content and better quality than most game developers can create.
The problem with quests is not weather they matter as they already DO matter,for gaining xp.That is the problem,they should not give any xp at all because xp=experience,you do NOT become a more experienced Warrior doing quests.
NPC "Go fetch me 10 bear skins"............On return you hand over the Bear skins and WHOA!! you have gained xp and are now a more experienced Warrior,umm no thanks.
I want a realistic LIVE ECO system.That means a fierce boss should be roaming the hill sides killing things in it's path.Quests should be there for a reason and the end result or that reason should seen in the game world.Example he wants 50 skins and will trade you a secret on how to make Bear skin shoes.Then you can make shoes and sell them to the npc who in return would sell them to players.
XP should be relegated to where it makes sense,you become a more experienced wood crafter by making wood things or become a more experienced Warrior by utilizing Warrior skills.You become a more experienced Swordsman by utilizing swords ..ect ect.
Quests should NEVER have a yellow marker over a npc head,who ever thought that was a cool idea should have been roasted at the stake by the one eyed cyclops from Sinbad movies.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
+1
Quoted for truth
Agreed, quests should be long and epic. They could at least call the regular boring fedex and extermination quests something else like "Tasks" or something and make them optional for people who like grinding cash that way.
The column is interesting but I doubt the AI will be there for the next 5 years even if it works in singleplayer games. A MMO is a lot more complicated and need to entertain a large group of players.
For now I would like a mix between epic quests and Dynamic events for more normal stuff. With few but large and epic quests voice acting wouldn't just be annoying as in certain games and you can make a more interesting story. Add in some random bosses that can spawn in different areas and we would at least get away from the terrible phasing and the overfull questlogs.
This.
Give me really long and difficult quest chains that have nothing to do with exp.
Absolutely. Here's how.
Make it so that quests aren't systemized, and aren't the primary way to level.
Bring back the "epic" quest series from original EQ! Months and months of farming, searching, making a world boss spawn for an item, slaying said dargon, etc. They would have to be raid level world bosses though, to keep a group of idiots from camping the spawn and "selling" the rights to the class item drops.
Not sure this would go over so well though.
As long killing monsters is not primary way to level, great
Retro questing would be a good start.
Even though some of the original EQ quest were out of this world time consuming, the end result was most gratifying. I do not particularly care what format the quest come in, voiced, not voiced, text trigger, click to win, whatever. I simply would like to see multi zone quest which require more than collect 10 of this or kill 20 of that. EQ always had a few long and rewarding quest every expansion. A few good EQ examples would be Original EQ - Jboots, Kunark - Epic's, VP access, Velious - Thurgadin armor quest (Actually Velious had crap loads of faction quest), Torn map quest for haste clicky, Luclin - Vex Thal access quest, erm... the fungus grove?(It's been a long time) earing quest, PoP - .....well you get the idea. Their were so many I only listed the ones that still stand out in my mind.
I really hated some of the spawn timers back in the day and Brell Serellis knows I bitched about not being a druid, wizard, or tracker doing some of those multi zone quest, but I cannot deny the sense of gratification I felt when I finally did complete some of these quest and have yet to find the equivalent feeling in any of the other MMO's I have played. I realize that I will never have that new feeling that I had when I played my first MMO, but would it kill the developers to add one or two game changing quest that require a bit more effort for a slightly better reward?
Unfortunately, 20 other players have already made these shoes and sold them to the npc. As a result, the other 2000 players on the server have already bought the shoes from the npc and are complaining that the quest is pointless and grindy and that they already have the end result reward anyway.
Originally posted by Wizardry
XP should be relegated to where it makes sense,you become a more experienced wood crafter by making wood things or become a more experienced Warrior by utilizing Warrior skills.
You directly contradict this with the example of a better quest system that has you collect 50 bear skins....... the Warrior, or whichever class, gains "experience" by using his skills on his bar in order to kill the bears and collect the skins.
I understand not liking to see yellow marks over the heads, that makes sense, everything else in the post doesn't make sense.
Mixed Genre game types....I don't see why a game cannot blend concepts together, Why not make a themepark/open world game, with whole areas that sandbox players can participate in, other areas with its own set of themepark elements; mixing other concepts like Battlezone (RTS/FPS), Mix SWTOR and EvE (themepark/sandbox) as an example; granted not literally mixing the said games together but the game play concepts...its not old technology, it could provide a game where you can do a lot depending on what you enjoy doing, I think like most people, you may log on and want to explore, PvE, PvP or socialize; Multi Genre games can open the possibilities to attract all types of gamers, and be "right" next door another game type within the same game itself.
Imagine in SWTOR if you could in participate in space battles FPS style, skillfully land your ship onto an enemy station and PvP MMO style, then go planetside and take over parts of a planet like a RTS/FPS, (kinda like a modified version of Battlefront) why not have players that are traders hauling freight through space from planet to planet with it own sandbox elements ....it just an example, but the idea is to have multiple game types with a single game that are not compartmentalized and promotes to create a "massive feel", not all of the content is created by the developers, some elements are and some are players creating their own experiences
In short, Take other game Genres and somewhat seamlessly blend them together into one massive game......
People want to do away with quests for leveling, but what do we replace it with? What will be the primary leveling/skill building mechanic? It's not like Mob grinding is any better. People got sick of that which is why quests took over that role to begin with. If we're not going to regress back to that, where do we go? What do we as a consumer base want, what would be enjoyable?
We can sit here and talk about what we don't like until we're blue in the face... Yet that will not take us anywhere until we start discussing what we do want and enjoy. NO one ever does that...
What I want to see is a system where the leveling process is lienar with good story telling/atmosphere and quest mechanics, with an elder game that is wide open and community oriented. Essentially the best of both worlds. Make both the world mechanics and story mechanics worth while and cohesive.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What he said is similar in line to what I stated
Quests the way I would want them...
You stumble across a farmer. You chat.
He has a problem with some Orcs occasionally raiding his farm for cattle. The options are: -
Gather materials and build better fences and protection for the cattle.
Reward is free board and lodging for a few days while you do the work and some food when you leave.
Serve as a guard to protect the next raid.
Reward is room and board till the next raid and some food when you leave for your travels.
Hunt the local Orcs and kill or move them on.
Reward is to get some food for travel and confirmation to the local guards for a reward of gold posted by them for Orcs killed.
Buy the cattle from him.
The cattle to sell for whatever profit you can get.
Transport the cattle to the local market.
A cut of the profit the farmer makes.
I.E. when I think of quests I see them as tasks that have various ways to achieve the desired outcome and upon completion receive. Quests should also be situational so that, when the problem with the Orcs is dealt with the farmer no longer has a need for help. That may mean another pressing issues rises that he needs help with of course.
The reason I am so excited for EQN is that, if everything works as hoped, such a questing system is possible.
Yeah I noticed that lol
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree. I see quests as a way to pay the way for the style of life you want to live not as the main means for gaining experience.
For me, experience should actually mean experience.
Why do you still get XP for killing rats when you have already killed 100 of them? Why not reward someone who has killed 100 rats with something linked to rats, like a bonus to damage or immunity from attack or something else.
Why not reward someone using a dagger and killing 100 things with a new skill related to daggers.
Why not reward someone who wears heavy armour for 100 hours with a reduction in weight or combat penalty.
Why not reward someone who has explored a region the ability to move faster within that region (no more pointless achievements but actually have them do something useful and linked to what you have done).
My main problem with game design is the formulated way they all are today and how artificial (of course it is a virtual game but you know what I mean) they are.
I like those ideas, essentially a cohesion between actions and advancement. I"d say killing enough rats could give you a bonus to disease immunity. Killing crocs and other reptiles gives a bonus to arm/weapon swing, from swinging at tough hides/scales.
KIlling big cats grants a bonus to speed and agility so on and so forth.
I'd also say if anyone used a system like this they shouldn't add an achievement sheet with numbers to follow, instead handle it similar to Jedi in SWG PRE-cu. Essentially you don't know what you need to do how far along you are etc.. OR what you're going to get. Until you achieve it. THis way it's not so systematic and doesn't encourage long grinding sessions.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson