PvE players need to understand this and push for a PvE sandbox like SWG was. Not try to make ArcheAge something it isnt.
Im a PvE player that wont be playing ArcheAge. And Im okay with that.
Actualy I don't think archeage is a pvp game. I know some people "think this" but if you look at the game you will see that there are significant activities that take up a lot of time such as "crafting".
Perhaps we could then say "archeage is a crafting game".
If archeage was a "pvp game" then you wouldn't have times when there were no pvp in certain areas. Or one continent dedicated to pvp when the other two are not.
Archeage is a game that has pvp and it is a very palpable presence. But in no way do I think of the game as "a pvp game".
Lineage 2 was a pvp game. Darkfall is a pvp game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
PvE players need to understand this and push for a PvE sandbox like SWG was. Not try to make ArcheAge something it isnt.
Im a PvE player that wont be playing ArcheAge. And Im okay with that.
This right here should be quoted, etched in stone, printed on plaques and become required learning for everyone playing MMOs.
Among all the "wtf are they thinking?" type attitudes, remarks and actions I see from people, this one is one of the most confusing to me - because the solution is so simple and self-evident that most people do it - in most every other aspect of their lives - without thinking about it. It's instinctual.
Example.
You want a steak. A really good steak.
You don't go to a restaurant specializing in Vegetarian cuisine and demand they add meat to the menu, because you want to eat a cow. You go to a steakhouse where making a really good steak is what they specialize in.
If you like heavy metal music, you don't go to a Country Western show and demand they start playing heavy metal covers. You go somewhere that specializes in bands who play heavy metal covers.
And on and on. I'm sure every single person reading this post could list off a dozen examples of how they follow that very same logic, every day, with a hundred other things, without even thinking about it. You just do it because it's the rational, sane thing to do.
Yet, somehow... when it comes to MMOs, that all goes out the window. We end up in some Twilight Zone, where people regularly go into forums for games that clearly don't cater to the playstyle they're seeking, and begin demanding the developers change their game to suit them. Often, they resort to insulting, or dismissing the people for whom the game actually is intended and whom are there following the game for the right reasons.
If you want a PvP MMO experience, go look up games that focus around PvP. If you want a PvE only experience, look into games that focus around PvE.
Simple! Why do so many people not seem to get this?
There are literally hundreds of choices out there. Surely one of them will satisfy your preferences "out of the box".
I want to sit down and have a steak with rock music playing in the background . I really detest country music, but I love steak. And there is only one steak place in town. Sadly the one and only place to have a steak is playing country music. The other places all serve vegetarian food.
So I go to see if maybe the steak house would like my business enough to open up a backroom and play rock music in it. Meanwhile, Sue likes steak so much that, even though she hates country music, she shuts up and goes to eat her steak with country music playing. But after a few visits, she can't stomach the music anymore and quits going there. She doesn't tell the owner why, she just goes to the vegetarian place down the street that plays rock music and gives up on steak.
Don't be like Sue. If you want steak and rock music, or steak and country music, or veggies and country music with a side of country rock, or anything else, ask for it. All anyone can do is say no. But if enough people want something and have money to buy it, and ask for it, someone is going to give it to them.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
PvE players need to understand this and push for a PvE sandbox like SWG was. Not try to make ArcheAge something it isnt.
Im a PvE player that wont be playing ArcheAge. And Im okay with that.
Actualy I don't think archeage is a pvp game. I know some people "think this" but if you look at the game you will see that there are significant activities that take up a lot of time such as "crafting".
Perhaps we could then say "archeage is a crafting game".
If archeage was a "pvp game" then you wouldn't have times when there were no pvp in certain areas. Or one continent dedicated to pvp when the other two are not.
Archeage is a game that has pvp and it is a very palpable presence. But in no way do I think of the game as "a pvp game".
Lineage 2 was a pvp game. Darkfall is a pvp game.
ArcheAge is also a crafting game, or more accurately a gathering game. But it is designed so higher end activities have a PvP exposure. Its like trying to say EvE isnt a PvP game.
People need to understand this, and accept this, because its part of what makes ArcheAge ArcheAge.
There does need to be PvE sandbox options, but ArcheAge wouldnt work as one IMO for reasons i wont get into here because I want to keep it positive. ArcheAge seems to be a very good game for its target (niche) audience, and if they tinker with the game's design at this stage to please everybody they will please nobody. Just ask SoE and LucasArts.
As many people here have said, the issue here isn't about PvP vs. PvE or "carebears." This is about the risk/reward ratio of traders and pirates being WAY too different.
The trader risks a LOT. The cost of their trade pack, the time they spend running the trade, and their boat. The pirate risks basically nothing...a few minutes in jail time, which is nearly always less than the amount of time it would take to run an actual trade. AND that is only if they get caught.
In addition, you can wind up getting a lot more gilda starts through piracy because you don't need to actually run the packs...people just bring them to you. This is stupid, it makes piracy, a very low risk, high reward activity; and trading a very high risk, medium reward activity.
The problem is the penalty for piracy...I love the court system, but the penalties are a joke. Big deal, 12 minutes in jail...Oooohhh. And even if someone commits enough crimes to get a lot of time in jail...all that means is that they go AFK for a night and they are back to piracy the next day. And they can even escape if they want to.
The penalties need to be redone so that people actually want to avoid them. Here's an idea...how about penalties are in gold and/or gilda stars. Instead of 12 minutes in jail, it's 12 gold or 3 gilda stars...something like that. These fines could be redistributed to victims of the crimes. You probably wouldn't get back what you lost...but it would be nice to know that if you get ganked and robbed you may one day get some kind of compensation for it.
Even better, make it so that if the pirate can't afford the fines levied on them, then the court would randomly repossess one of their good items (quality depending on the amount they owe), and they wouldn't get it back until they pay off their debt.
I bet that people would think twice about piracy if you stand to lose 15 gilda stars if you are caught.
Archeage is a full ffa open world pvp game....... I cant wait to farm those traders all day every day !! Its the most fun this game has to offer !!!
Dont like it ? pve themeparks that -----------> way
jeez how hard is it to understand that this mmo offers something unique ? Go with numbers or die alone. This mmo screams group play...
And here we have the people thinking its a pve game -_- Come on this is the best pvp game comming out in a decade !
It is a full ffa open world pvp game with a dumbass jail system.
I like the pvp aspect, it makes it fun. but......
If the developers want to penalize the traders who try and do trades buy having them loose precious time, resources etc..., punish the pirates who pirate when they are caught in a similiar fashion...not the lame ass jail they currently have.
If they were to do this, it would make for an amazing game and the pirates would earn way more respect because traders would know that they are willing to pay the price for being a pirate, currently there is no price to be paid.
I know if i knew a pirate could get 2 days jail and it actually was 2 days of not gaining anything on the character, i would have a great deal of respect for the pirate for being willing to take the risk for the reward...in my opinion that would be awesome!
As many people here have said, the issue here isn't about PvP vs. PvE or "carebears." This is about the risk/reward ratio of traders and pirates being WAY too different.
The trader risks a LOT. The cost of their trade pack, the time they spend running the trade, and their boat. The pirate risks basically nothing...a few minutes in jail time, which is nearly always less than the amount of time it would take to run an actual trade. AND that is only if they get caught.
In addition, you can wind up getting a lot more gilda starts through piracy because you don't need to actually run the packs...people just bring them to you. This is stupid, it makes piracy, a very low risk, high reward activity; and trading a very high risk, medium reward activity.
The problem is the penalty for piracy...I love the court system, but the penalties are a joke. Big deal, 12 minutes in jail...Oooohhh. And even if someone commits enough crimes to get a lot of time in jail...all that means is that they go AFK for a night and they are back to piracy the next day. And they can even escape if they want to.
The penalties need to be redone so that people actually want to avoid them. Here's an idea...how about penalties are in gold and/or gilda stars. Instead of 12 minutes in jail, it's 12 gold or 3 gilda stars...something like that. These fines could be redistributed to victims of the crimes. You probably wouldn't get back what you lost...but it would be nice to know that if you get ganked and robbed you may one day get some kind of compensation for it.
Even better, make it so that if the pirate can't afford the fines levied on them, then the court would randomly repossess one of their good items (quality depending on the amount they owe), and they wouldn't get it back until they pay off their debt.
I bet that people would think twice about piracy if you stand to lose 15 gilda stars if you are caught.
Suggestion to offset some of that skewed trader risk vs reward ratio:
First, make it so that whenever someone is killed while carrying a trade pack, the trade pack then becomes bloodstained, visibly marking it as stolen goods.
Second, make the current Gilda Star Traders and Gold Traders to be respectable merchants, wanting nothing to do with stolen property, and even alerting the neutral guards if someone tries to sell a bloodstained pack to them.
Third, add Blackmarket Traders eslewhere, far away from the normal Gilda/Gold Traders, where bloodstained packs can be sold.
This would then turn the Trader VS Pirate risk/reward into Trader VS Pirate(A) VS Pirate(B).
Pirate(A) would be the pirates that initially attack the trader and stain the pack. Instead of now being able to just hand the packs in at the docks they would normally camp, they must make a journey themselves to these Blackmarket Traders to sell the stolen property. This creates a risk for them in the form of Pirate(B), the pirates of the pirates.
Pirate(B) would be the pirates that wait around the Blackmarket Traders, to then steal the bloodstained tradepacks from Pirate(A). They would be the ones with the least risk.
This change would benefit the initial Trader, due to Pirates now having to decide between being an (A) or a (B). Do they go for the pack and risk being prey themselves? Or do they just wait around the Blackmarket Traders, hoping some other pirates are foolish enough to bring them the stolen packs?
Originally posted by kridak Originally posted by Creslin321As many people here have said, the issue here isn't about PvP vs. PvE or "carebears." This is about the risk/reward ratio of traders and pirates being WAY too different.The trader risks a LOT. The cost of their trade pack, the time they spend running the trade, and their boat. The pirate risks basically nothing...a few minutes in jail time, which is nearly always less than the amount of time it would take to run an actual trade. AND that is only if they get caught.In addition, you can wind up getting a lot more gilda starts through piracy because you don't need to actually run the packs...people just bring them to you. This is stupid, it makes piracy, a very low risk, high reward activity; and trading a very high risk, medium reward activity.The problem is the penalty for piracy...I love the court system, but the penalties are a joke. Big deal, 12 minutes in jail...Oooohhh. And even if someone commits enough crimes to get a lot of time in jail...all that means is that they go AFK for a night and they are back to piracy the next day. And they can even escape if they want to.The penalties need to be redone so that people actually want to avoid them. Here's an idea...how about penalties are in gold and/or gilda stars. Instead of 12 minutes in jail, it's 12 gold or 3 gilda stars...something like that. These fines could be redistributed to victims of the crimes. You probably wouldn't get back what you lost...but it would be nice to know that if you get ganked and robbed you may one day get some kind of compensation for it.Even better, make it so that if the pirate can't afford the fines levied on them, then the court would randomly repossess one of their good items (quality depending on the amount they owe), and they wouldn't get it back until they pay off their debt.I bet that people would think twice about piracy if you stand to lose 15 gilda stars if you are caught.
Nice!
Never going to happen. Trion has already said they want the NA/EU client to be more sandbox then the Korean client who added more Themepark. They have said many times over how they want this game and are not going to change the penalty's / game mechanics.
The people are happy with how it works now.... there are only a handfull of people who complain about it.... Sorry man this is not the mmo you are looking for and neither should you want to change it into something it will never be. Accept the rules or take your ball and go home.
Originally posted by Creslin321As many people here have said, the issue here isn't about PvP vs. PvE or "carebears." This is about the risk/reward ratio of traders and pirates being WAY too different.The trader risks a LOT. The cost of their trade pack, the time they spend running the trade, and their boat. The pirate risks basically nothing...a few minutes in jail time, which is nearly always less than the amount of time it would take to run an actual trade. AND that is only if they get caught.In addition, you can wind up getting a lot more gilda starts through piracy because you don't need to actually run the packs...people just bring them to you. This is stupid, it makes piracy, a very low risk, high reward activity; and trading a very high risk, medium reward activity.The problem is the penalty for piracy...I love the court system, but the penalties are a joke. Big deal, 12 minutes in jail...Oooohhh. And even if someone commits enough crimes to get a lot of time in jail...all that means is that they go AFK for a night and they are back to piracy the next day. And they can even escape if they want to.The penalties need to be redone so that people actually want to avoid them. Here's an idea...how about penalties are in gold and/or gilda stars. Instead of 12 minutes in jail, it's 12 gold or 3 gilda stars...something like that. These fines could be redistributed to victims of the crimes. You probably wouldn't get back what you lost...but it would be nice to know that if you get ganked and robbed you may one day get some kind of compensation for it.Even better, make it so that if the pirate can't afford the fines levied on them, then the court would randomly repossess one of their good items (quality depending on the amount they owe), and they wouldn't get it back until they pay off their debt.I bet that people would think twice about piracy if you stand to lose 15 gilda stars if you are caught.
Nice!
Never going to happen. Trion has already said they want the NA/EU client to be more sandbox then the Korean client who added more Themepark. They have said many times over how they want this game and are not going to change the penalty's / game mechanics.
The people are happy with how it works now.... there are only a handfull of people who complain about it.... Sorry man this is not the mmo you are looking for and neither should you want to change it into something it will never be. Accept the rules or take your ball and go home.
How does this discussion have anything to do with sandbox vs. themepark?
This is about balancing risk/reward ratios between different sandbox activities, trading and piracy. I don't want to see piracy go away, I do want to see it be risker though, because right now it is like NO risk. Which is stupid.
I really don't see how anyone could ever argue for the current way the system is set up. Trading is incredibly risky with a middling reward...and piracy is near riskless with a huge reward, AND it's just more fun to do.
This is a problem for both pirates and traders. It's a problem for traders because trading outside of safe zones sucks when you have such a high chance of being robbed. And it's a problem for pirates because well...you can't pirate much when all the traders stop trading.
Originally posted by Creslin321As many people here have said, the issue here isn't about PvP vs. PvE or "carebears." This is about the risk/reward ratio of traders and pirates being WAY too different.The trader risks a LOT. The cost of their trade pack, the time they spend running the trade, and their boat. The pirate risks basically nothing...a few minutes in jail time, which is nearly always less than the amount of time it would take to run an actual trade. AND that is only if they get caught.In addition, you can wind up getting a lot more gilda starts through piracy because you don't need to actually run the packs...people just bring them to you. This is stupid, it makes piracy, a very low risk, high reward activity; and trading a very high risk, medium reward activity.The problem is the penalty for piracy...I love the court system, but the penalties are a joke. Big deal, 12 minutes in jail...Oooohhh. And even if someone commits enough crimes to get a lot of time in jail...all that means is that they go AFK for a night and they are back to piracy the next day. And they can even escape if they want to.The penalties need to be redone so that people actually want to avoid them. Here's an idea...how about penalties are in gold and/or gilda stars. Instead of 12 minutes in jail, it's 12 gold or 3 gilda stars...something like that. These fines could be redistributed to victims of the crimes. You probably wouldn't get back what you lost...but it would be nice to know that if you get ganked and robbed you may one day get some kind of compensation for it.Even better, make it so that if the pirate can't afford the fines levied on them, then the court would randomly repossess one of their good items (quality depending on the amount they owe), and they wouldn't get it back until they pay off their debt.I bet that people would think twice about piracy if you stand to lose 15 gilda stars if you are caught.
Nice!
Never going to happen. Trion has already said they want the NA/EU client to be more sandbox then the Korean client who added more Themepark. They have said many times over how they want this game and are not going to change the penalty's / game mechanics.
The people are happy with how it works now.... there are only a handfull of people who complain about it.... Sorry man this is not the mmo you are looking for and neither should you want to change it into something it will never be. Accept the rules or take your ball and go home.
You should always hope developers will get their heads out of their asses and make a better game.
I will be playing either way, because it is fun, but if you are happy with the game you should rethink risk vs reward as it should work 2 ways. good lord this is common frickin sense. My guess is your a pirate and love that there is no consequence...like i said earlier, i do not blame you as you have 0 risk and all the rewards. (which i do not blame you..the system is flawed and you are actually doing nothing wrong, but that does not mean the system is good, it is not)
It will only hurt the game in the long run if they do not balance the system...hell they will end up with so many pirates there may be few traders. Or the traders will say screw it and stick to non pvp areas...and there goes the pirate fun....if they leave it this way it just shows they have no clue what balance means...but they would not be the first company to duck their heads in the sand.
Encourage logical change, or grow stagnant. (and take your ball with you)
what fun would it be if there was no risk for trading..i say let Trion do what they do 80% goes to the pirate..20% to the trader...when i'm trading i would like a bit of danger otherwise ill just be trading and trading is quite boring i need to do it but i also want some danger to it.. and all you carebears that want this game to be nothing but pve...what the hell are u gonna do on the northern continent? technically all you want is to build houses boats and castles...you dont want a challenge..it will be all grind on a pve server...theres not enough pve on this game...i liked the idea of having a in game insurance company...or a npc mercenary group u can hire..i put all my cargo on my merchant ship and hire some mercenaries to be on board and guard it with me and my guild on it...this mercenary group warns when and where the pirates are coming from...this makes it a bit more challenging for the pirate..also for the penalty of pirating..why not they lose a piece of gear (gear is very precious at lvl 50 i here cuz its hard to make) or have to pay the courts a fee ..if you dont pay it by a certain period of time back to jail you go
Hafta agree with most posters here and not the OP. PvE players loose everything and Pirates have nothing to loose. If they get caught, well anyone playing now will know the justice system is a joke. I'm all for 100% loss to the Traders.
But in return I would expect a HUGE punishment for pirates/griefers. Rather than minutes in jail...should be days or months. Homes/properties reclaimed. Loss of bank use or any kind of city vendor. You want realism....well what happens to a criminal on the run? Their names are known, and everybody is gunning for them. Now put that kinda realism on the griefers...see how long they last.
If the game weren't free to play, meaning people can have multiple griefer accounts with no properties, it would be the best deterrent ever to let a jury of players award confiscated property to the aggrieved victims of captured thieves.
I wish some of the people posting in this thread were designing our games instead of the people who are designing them.
It is a lot easier to armchair develop than to do it for real.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
While I was the first to defend the trader's percentage in this thread, I want to make it clear that ArcheAge needs piracy.
The core of the game is high-risk trade runs.
This game will succeed or fail based on how it caters to BOTH elements. Based on polls on the official site, 80% of players want to preserve the ability to earn Gilda Stars for intra-continental trade runs (which largely avoid PVP). So while the streamers are all giving us some glorious PVP episodes, there is clearly a massive PVE community that is enjoying the game as is.
I come from a solidly PVE background, but the cat-and-mouse PVP that ArcheAge offers definitiely has me and my playgroup interested. I think it's worth distinguishing between "PVP games" like Planetside 2 or Battlefield, where player killing is the entire point of the game, and games that merely allow situational player combat as one of many objectives.
I by no means am a full loot OWPVP type at all. On my first trade run I knew the risks and I lost my pack. I worked hard to gather the items and make the pack and travel all slow and I lost it to my own faction. I chalked it up as a loss though. Unprotected waters.
Instead of lowering the penalty for losing your trade pack, they need to increase the penalty of same faction murder. That's where the problem lies. You can kill somebody destroy their work and only get like 10-18 minutes in jail. Then they go back out and do it again. That time frame needs to increased and the crime points needed to be banished needs to be cut in half. People who PK their own faction really need to feel the repercussions of doing it, so there is risk for them as well. People are trying to ride the line between piracy and regular play.
The blood lust system needs work too. Most of these same faction pk'ers turn on bloodlust allowing them to get the jump on others who are unsuspecting. If you have bloodlust on you should be marked as red, and there needs to be a cool down so it can't be switched on and off.
TL;DR
60/40 split is a bad idea, 80/20 was already way generous. Increase the time of faction on faction crimes and the speed at which piracy is reached.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
ArcheAge is also a crafting game, or more accurately a gathering game. But it is designed so higher end activities have a PvP exposure. Its like trying to say EvE isnt a PvP game.
People need to understand this, and accept this, because its part of what makes ArcheAge ArcheAge.
There does need to be PvE sandbox options, but ArcheAge wouldnt work as one IMO for reasons i wont get into here because I want to keep it positive. ArcheAge seems to be a very good game for its target (niche) audience, and if they tinker with the game's design at this stage to please everybody they will please nobody. Just ask SoE and LucasArts.
That still doesn't mean it's a "pvp game".
Is crafting just as important end game?
To me a pvp game is one that fosters pvp "all the time" and it is center stage.
There is a lot of talk about "sandboxes" and I would say that Archeage is more of a sandbox and that pvp is one of many important tools in that sandbox.
But saying a game is an "x game" means that the game revolves around that activity.
I see the crafting and pvp part of this game as a bit yin and yang, ever circling each other, different but important to each other. Not "one or the other".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I by no means am a full loot OWPVP type at all. On my first trade run I knew the risks and I lost my pack. I worked hard to gather the items and make the pack and travel all slow and I lost it to my own faction. I chalked it up as a loss though. Unprotected waters.
Instead of lowering the penalty for losing your trade pack, they need to increase the penalty of same faction murder. That's where the problem lies. You can kill somebody destroy their work and only get like 10-18 minutes in jail. Then they go back out and do it again. That time frame needs to increased and the crime points needed to be banished needs to be cut in half. People who PK their own faction really need to feel the repercussions of doing it, so there is risk for them as well. People are trying to ride the line between piracy and regular play.
The blood lust system needs work too. Most of these same faction pk'ers turn on bloodlust allowing them to get the jump on others who are unsuspecting. If you have bloodlust on you should be marked as red, and there needs to be a cool down so it can't be switched on and off.
TL;DR
60/40 split is a bad idea, 80/20 was already way generous. Increase the time of faction on faction crimes and the speed at which piracy is reached.
Yep I agree, especially on the bloodlust thing. Bloodlust needs a cooldown and "wind-up" time. What I mean by this is that when you turn on bloodlust, you should be unable to attack other players (unless you are attacked) for like 2 minutes or something, but your color would still change. This would stop people from just insto-bloodlusting and killing unsuspecting people.
Comments
Actualy I don't think archeage is a pvp game. I know some people "think this" but if you look at the game you will see that there are significant activities that take up a lot of time such as "crafting".
Perhaps we could then say "archeage is a crafting game".
If archeage was a "pvp game" then you wouldn't have times when there were no pvp in certain areas. Or one continent dedicated to pvp when the other two are not.
Archeage is a game that has pvp and it is a very palpable presence. But in no way do I think of the game as "a pvp game".
Lineage 2 was a pvp game. Darkfall is a pvp game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I want to sit down and have a steak with rock music playing in the background . I really detest country music, but I love steak. And there is only one steak place in town. Sadly the one and only place to have a steak is playing country music. The other places all serve vegetarian food.
So I go to see if maybe the steak house would like my business enough to open up a backroom and play rock music in it. Meanwhile, Sue likes steak so much that, even though she hates country music, she shuts up and goes to eat her steak with country music playing. But after a few visits, she can't stomach the music anymore and quits going there. She doesn't tell the owner why, she just goes to the vegetarian place down the street that plays rock music and gives up on steak.
Don't be like Sue. If you want steak and rock music, or steak and country music, or veggies and country music with a side of country rock, or anything else, ask for it. All anyone can do is say no. But if enough people want something and have money to buy it, and ask for it, someone is going to give it to them.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Archeage is a full ffa open world pvp game.......
I cant wait to farm those traders all day every day !!
Its the most fun this game has to offer !!!
Dont like it ? pve themeparks that -----------> way
jeez how hard is it to understand that this mmo offers something unique ?
Go with numbers or die alone.
This mmo screams group play...
And here we have the people thinking its a pve game -_-
Come on this is the best pvp game comming out in a decade !
ArcheAge is also a crafting game, or more accurately a gathering game. But it is designed so higher end activities have a PvP exposure. Its like trying to say EvE isnt a PvP game.
People need to understand this, and accept this, because its part of what makes ArcheAge ArcheAge.
There does need to be PvE sandbox options, but ArcheAge wouldnt work as one IMO for reasons i wont get into here because I want to keep it positive. ArcheAge seems to be a very good game for its target (niche) audience, and if they tinker with the game's design at this stage to please everybody they will please nobody. Just ask SoE and LucasArts.
As many people here have said, the issue here isn't about PvP vs. PvE or "carebears." This is about the risk/reward ratio of traders and pirates being WAY too different.
The trader risks a LOT. The cost of their trade pack, the time they spend running the trade, and their boat. The pirate risks basically nothing...a few minutes in jail time, which is nearly always less than the amount of time it would take to run an actual trade. AND that is only if they get caught.
In addition, you can wind up getting a lot more gilda starts through piracy because you don't need to actually run the packs...people just bring them to you. This is stupid, it makes piracy, a very low risk, high reward activity; and trading a very high risk, medium reward activity.
The problem is the penalty for piracy...I love the court system, but the penalties are a joke. Big deal, 12 minutes in jail...Oooohhh. And even if someone commits enough crimes to get a lot of time in jail...all that means is that they go AFK for a night and they are back to piracy the next day. And they can even escape if they want to.
The penalties need to be redone so that people actually want to avoid them. Here's an idea...how about penalties are in gold and/or gilda stars. Instead of 12 minutes in jail, it's 12 gold or 3 gilda stars...something like that. These fines could be redistributed to victims of the crimes. You probably wouldn't get back what you lost...but it would be nice to know that if you get ganked and robbed you may one day get some kind of compensation for it.
Even better, make it so that if the pirate can't afford the fines levied on them, then the court would randomly repossess one of their good items (quality depending on the amount they owe), and they wouldn't get it back until they pay off their debt.
I bet that people would think twice about piracy if you stand to lose 15 gilda stars if you are caught.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
It is a full ffa open world pvp game with a dumbass jail system.
I like the pvp aspect, it makes it fun. but......
If the developers want to penalize the traders who try and do trades buy having them loose precious time, resources etc..., punish the pirates who pirate when they are caught in a similiar fashion...not the lame ass jail they currently have.
If they were to do this, it would make for an amazing game and the pirates would earn way more respect because traders would know that they are willing to pay the price for being a pirate, currently there is no price to be paid.
I know if i knew a pirate could get 2 days jail and it actually was 2 days of not gaining anything on the character, i would have a great deal of respect for the pirate for being willing to take the risk for the reward...in my opinion that would be awesome!
Just my silly thoughts on the matter.
Nice!
Suggestion to offset some of that skewed trader risk vs reward ratio:
First, make it so that whenever someone is killed while carrying a trade pack, the trade pack then becomes bloodstained, visibly marking it as stolen goods.
Second, make the current Gilda Star Traders and Gold Traders to be respectable merchants, wanting nothing to do with stolen property, and even alerting the neutral guards if someone tries to sell a bloodstained pack to them.
Third, add Blackmarket Traders eslewhere, far away from the normal Gilda/Gold Traders, where bloodstained packs can be sold.
This would then turn the Trader VS Pirate risk/reward into Trader VS Pirate(A) VS Pirate(B).
Pirate(A) would be the pirates that initially attack the trader and stain the pack. Instead of now being able to just hand the packs in at the docks they would normally camp, they must make a journey themselves to these Blackmarket Traders to sell the stolen property. This creates a risk for them in the form of Pirate(B), the pirates of the pirates.
Pirate(B) would be the pirates that wait around the Blackmarket Traders, to then steal the bloodstained tradepacks from Pirate(A). They would be the ones with the least risk.
This change would benefit the initial Trader, due to Pirates now having to decide between being an (A) or a (B). Do they go for the pack and risk being prey themselves? Or do they just wait around the Blackmarket Traders, hoping some other pirates are foolish enough to bring them the stolen packs?
Nice!
Never going to happen.
Trion has already said they want the NA/EU client to be more sandbox then the Korean client who added more Themepark.
They have said many times over how they want this game and are not going to change the penalty's / game mechanics.
The people are happy with how it works now.... there are only a handfull of people who complain about it....
Sorry man this is not the mmo you are looking for and neither should you want to change it into something it will never be.
Accept the rules or take your ball and go home.
How does this discussion have anything to do with sandbox vs. themepark?
This is about balancing risk/reward ratios between different sandbox activities, trading and piracy. I don't want to see piracy go away, I do want to see it be risker though, because right now it is like NO risk. Which is stupid.
I really don't see how anyone could ever argue for the current way the system is set up. Trading is incredibly risky with a middling reward...and piracy is near riskless with a huge reward, AND it's just more fun to do.
This is a problem for both pirates and traders. It's a problem for traders because trading outside of safe zones sucks when you have such a high chance of being robbed. And it's a problem for pirates because well...you can't pirate much when all the traders stop trading.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
In my opinion pirates, when caught, should be forced to spend as much time in prison as it takes the crafter to gather materials they tried to steal.
- backpack price of victim auto-calculated
- some prison-grinding-activity forced on pirate, based on the price of victims backpack
Assuming that crafting materials took ~2 hours:
- if pirate wins: victim loses 2 hours of grinding, pirate gains 2 hours of grinding
- if pirate loses: victim gains 2 hours of grinding, pirate loses 2 hours of grinding
You should always hope developers will get their heads out of their asses and make a better game.
I will be playing either way, because it is fun, but if you are happy with the game you should rethink risk vs reward as it should work 2 ways. good lord this is common frickin sense. My guess is your a pirate and love that there is no consequence...like i said earlier, i do not blame you as you have 0 risk and all the rewards. (which i do not blame you..the system is flawed and you are actually doing nothing wrong, but that does not mean the system is good, it is not)
It will only hurt the game in the long run if they do not balance the system...hell they will end up with so many pirates there may be few traders. Or the traders will say screw it and stick to non pvp areas...and there goes the pirate fun....if they leave it this way it just shows they have no clue what balance means...but they would not be the first company to duck their heads in the sand.
Encourage logical change, or grow stagnant. (and take your ball with you)
It is a lot easier to armchair develop than to do it for real.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
While I was the first to defend the trader's percentage in this thread, I want to make it clear that ArcheAge needs piracy.
The core of the game is high-risk trade runs.
This game will succeed or fail based on how it caters to BOTH elements. Based on polls on the official site, 80% of players want to preserve the ability to earn Gilda Stars for intra-continental trade runs (which largely avoid PVP). So while the streamers are all giving us some glorious PVP episodes, there is clearly a massive PVE community that is enjoying the game as is.
I come from a solidly PVE background, but the cat-and-mouse PVP that ArcheAge offers definitiely has me and my playgroup interested. I think it's worth distinguishing between "PVP games" like Planetside 2 or Battlefield, where player killing is the entire point of the game, and games that merely allow situational player combat as one of many objectives.
I by no means am a full loot OWPVP type at all. On my first trade run I knew the risks and I lost my pack. I worked hard to gather the items and make the pack and travel all slow and I lost it to my own faction. I chalked it up as a loss though. Unprotected waters.
Instead of lowering the penalty for losing your trade pack, they need to increase the penalty of same faction murder. That's where the problem lies. You can kill somebody destroy their work and only get like 10-18 minutes in jail. Then they go back out and do it again. That time frame needs to increased and the crime points needed to be banished needs to be cut in half. People who PK their own faction really need to feel the repercussions of doing it, so there is risk for them as well. People are trying to ride the line between piracy and regular play.
The blood lust system needs work too. Most of these same faction pk'ers turn on bloodlust allowing them to get the jump on others who are unsuspecting. If you have bloodlust on you should be marked as red, and there needs to be a cool down so it can't be switched on and off.
TL;DR
60/40 split is a bad idea, 80/20 was already way generous. Increase the time of faction on faction crimes and the speed at which piracy is reached.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Coming from from EvE Online and throwing around "Carebears" I'd say you're a [insert something that will get me banned].
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That still doesn't mean it's a "pvp game".
Is crafting just as important end game?
To me a pvp game is one that fosters pvp "all the time" and it is center stage.
There is a lot of talk about "sandboxes" and I would say that Archeage is more of a sandbox and that pvp is one of many important tools in that sandbox.
But saying a game is an "x game" means that the game revolves around that activity.
I see the crafting and pvp part of this game as a bit yin and yang, ever circling each other, different but important to each other. Not "one or the other".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yep I agree, especially on the bloodlust thing. Bloodlust needs a cooldown and "wind-up" time. What I mean by this is that when you turn on bloodlust, you should be unable to attack other players (unless you are attacked) for like 2 minutes or something, but your color would still change. This would stop people from just insto-bloodlusting and killing unsuspecting people.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?