"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I also am NOT donating shit. I donate to 501(c3) non profits. I do not "donate" to for profit companies and the Law is starting to make this distinction now.
My analagy may be flawed- But the point isnt. They asked for 1/2 Million and gave an outline. The have what 40 Million now , 26 Million, something absurd and have been cranking out cash shop items. No game. Just delaysdand cash shop items.
EDIT- I also want to clarify that this statement is a general one and not about SC. I DONT think SC is an outright scam- I think its going to be milked for everything its worth and its a cash grab more than anything else.
I understand where your frustration lies, but the case (lawsuit) you're bringing up is a case of essentially robbing people, I never said SC could take your money and run. That would indeed be criminal, and yes courts and kickstarter are starting to step up in regard to this. For kickstarter to be truly legitimate I think such steps are needed. Where I disagree is that it's bad for these companies to be going for extra funding, especially for a title the scope of SC. The more money they have the less likely things are to go wrong in such a case.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Paid by post or word? SOrry you post an ad for that game every other day it seems. It's been going on forever..
Neither one; I just really like the game. Apology accepted. No offense intended on my part.
edit: here's my bio - if my post was out of line a moderator can remove it. I just find that Vendetta is a very similar game in aspect to Star Citizen (if not in scope, presently edit2, 6/5/14: actually, as implemented now, Vendetta has a larger scope; Star Citizen has a larger scope planned)
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
OK I know it will be an alpha release anyway but I dont see any reason for them to release even an alpha build that does not work. Guys get the major bugs sorted first then let us test and find more bugs
Sure, but when you have time , moneyy and manpower to ake and sell ships while delaying (I know...I know..Different department blah , blah) after making far more than what was initially asked for- It looks bad.
3d artists have nothing to do with the bugs currently in game.. 3d artists can carry on making ships and ships and ships as they have nothing to do with the game coding and current bugs in game.
It does not look bad to me.. it actually looks like they care about the quality of the game they release even at the alpha stage.
Sure, but when you have time , moneyy and manpower to ake and sell ships while delaying (I know...I know..Different department blah , blah) after making far more than what was initially asked for- It looks bad.
3d artists have nothing to do with the bugs currently in game.. 3d artists can carry on making ships and ships and ships as they have nothing to do with the game coding and current bugs in game.
It does not look bad to me.. it actually looks like they care about the quality of the game they release even at the alpha stage.
Its about priorities.
It looks to me (and others) that their priority is on the Ca$h $hop- It also look s like (to me) the second they release something tangible its going to hurt the wave of hype and anticipation and hurt their Ca$h $hop sales. To me- This looks strategic whether I am right or wrong- It LOOKS that way.
However- That aside. They asked for a mere $500,000 and got close to 100 times what was asked for (I lost track but I know it hit at least 26 Million) so where is that money going? If this could have been done for 1//2 Million, why all the delay when they have far more what was asked for?
This looks like its being milked for everything its worth.
Instead of hiring ANY MORE 3D artists, they need to lay some off and hire programmers. My money was supposed to be for a game not to hire folks to make cash shop items before the game is even playable.
Enough Ships already- Enough selling shit for a "game" that does not exist.
That would be my main point. There is plenty of money to focus on development of the "game" and work on the cash shop later.
Its a poor way to run a company- Its also a trend that needs to stop.
Finish the shit before focusing on anything else- There are enough Ca$h $hop $hips for this game that does not yet exist.
Not even any UEC as a way for coming short once more on deadlines.
I do have a minimum understanding of game developing and of course this was suppose to happen since they got 40million they aimed for a game with a bigger scope with more complexity this means more bugs and more time losing trying to fix that.
Plus they have multiple teams over multiple locations that can also generate more bugs compare to a single local team.
You are also testing this game earlier than anticipated.
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the fact they have got so much money is the main reason they are even able to get close to releasing an early alpha of the combat... I guess if they had only got 500k then they would not be at this point yet.
Chill out relax wait for them to sort that major bugs they have listed.. dont worry about the cash shop I have not even looked at it once since backing early in the kickstarter.
Paid by post or word? SOrry you post an ad for that game every other day it seems. It's been going on forever..
Neither one; I just really like the game. Apology accepted. No offense intended on my part.
edit: here's my bio - if my post was out of line a moderator can remove it. I just find that Vendetta is a very similar game in aspect to Star Citizen (if not in scope, presently)
Heh, I'm just giving you a hard time, I've tried it before ( based on one of your posts) that was a long time ago though. It's not bad just extremely dated. It reminded me a bit of X2: The Threat graphically which isn't a bad thing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I see Pantheon V2.0 is failing along quite nicely. Really interested to see how this plays out, hope those who have invested in this game don't get fleeced!
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
If people weren't so gulliable and naive, CR wouldn't have all the money from donations so it isn't surprising at all people are still excusing him....
However, there is one thing you need to realize - "rushed" release is not a fault of a publisher, only one to blame is devs.
Publisher/investor gives them money to make a game -> devs do not meet deadlines - > devs run out of money - > game is released in unsatisfactory state.
So when CR says:
"This is the power of the crowdfunding that made Star Citizen possible: a publisher would make us ship tomorrow regardless of the current build quality"
It means = I can fck up with your money as much as I want as I am not liable for the money neither I have to answer to anyone.
Besides that, it is utter nonsense statement since money spent on delay cannot be spent on something else, they are gone. So there goes the rubbish about "quality", there is no such thing as "delayed for higher quality".
I have nothing against Sar Citizen, but, if they keep the current pace of development, some people may not live long enough to have a chance of playing it.
I think it's worth the wait. Personally going to wait until the game is finished, as they have more than enough money and I don't want to spoil it for myself by playing the unfinished version.
Also found this article on the topic at arstechnica
The whole discussion about how delays are better than releasing a buggy game is missing some points. First off, when publishers are pushing their devs to release a game at certain date, it is based on how costumers react to such events. If all players were such dedicated costumers, who are willing to support a final and polished product, no matter how long it took to finish it, then there would never be dead lines. Publishers realize that if the game takes too long to release after it's initial hype, players may get tired of waiting for it; hype is never constant; and other games are ready to take the spot of the delayed game. So what big-name publishers do by forcing deadlines is that they are securing their market share which is influenced not by shareholders but by actual players.
Not having a publisher and not having actual release dates, in my opinion, has no positive effect on how profitable the game will be. In general not having these components by having crowdfunds, only helps the devs themselves and not the players. The devs dont have the pressure of setting a goal while already having the money in their pockets, they can stretch the development for as long as they want and not worry much about the game flopping altogether, since they've already earned their paycheck.
Well, if you want it done right, expect a 2020 release date... you all willing to wait that long?... did you expect to fund a project with that sort of lead time? I think the reality is, home-grown projects take quadruple if not more the amount of development time. You've all come to expect speedy results. Think of it more as a 401K project... you invest in it, and when you retire, you get your return.
This is why crowd funding is not the way to get the video game you want... because by the time it gets done, you will no longer want it and want something else.
This may have been true when they were only expecting 500k. When you have a 40 million dollar budget I think you have the funds available to get shit done in a more expedient manner.
Out of 200 employees there is probably 10 working on the dogfighter module.
It should not be used as a yardstick to measure what work is or has been done on the rest of the game. There are many things other than DF that are being worked on.
Meanwhile the team behind Elite: Dangerous has been cranking out fully functional alpha versions of their game for a while now, and on about 1/40th the budget.
At the pace RSI is going, I fully expect their game to release about the same time as E:D's second expansion.
Clarification: I hope SC comes out and is every bit as good as backers expect it to be. I'm just taking the piss out of RSI for my own amusement.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Well, if you want it done right, expect a 2020 release date... you all willing to wait that long?... did you expect to fund a project with that sort of lead time? I think the reality is, home-grown projects take quadruple if not more the amount of development time. You've all come to expect speedy results. Think of it more as a 401K project... you invest in it, and when you retire, you get your return.
This is why crowd funding is not the way to get the video game you want... because by the time it gets done, you will no longer want it and want something else.
This may have been true when they were only expecting 500k. When you have a 40 million dollar budget I think you have the funds available to get shit done in a more expedient manner.
More $$$ does not equal getting things done faster or better.
SWToR**cough**$200Mil**cough
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Well, if you want it done right, expect a 2020 release date... you all willing to wait that long?... did you expect to fund a project with that sort of lead time? I think the reality is, home-grown projects take quadruple if not more the amount of development time. You've all come to expect speedy results. Think of it more as a 401K project... you invest in it, and when you retire, you get your return.
This is why crowd funding is not the way to get the video game you want... because by the time it gets done, you will no longer want it and want something else.
Very good solid point. I am still waiting on some games I backed in 2010 to get to beta.
Do you guys watched their show at PAX? A massive disaster, one of the biggest fail on the gaming history. I felt so bad for Chris, i even though he was going to cry LIVE.
Sorry but Star Citizen is not going to happen.
Dont put hope in it or you guys are just going to be disapointed (and scammed btw).
Bumpy road, just as I predicted. Though this is really just a small pothole. So far.
Roberts overweening, gigantic ego leads him to make some poor decisions, and to think that all he has to do is show up for things to be a success. This shouldn't be a shock to anyone, he previously presided over several Vaporware of the Year candidates, with extensive delays.
His salesmanship brilliance, though, has lead to unprecedented success in developing a cash-shop-in-advance system.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
CIG is play/testing the game day in and day out. We could be doing the same. We ALL KNOW this is way early testing, they've given us a shoddy, buggy, half-filled Hangar already and nobody dropped a brick over that.
There's no good reason not to release it as is to the backers, so they can kick the tires, too, AND TO GIVE some credibility to CIG for hitting a date for once.
Comments
/raises hand
Vendetta Online is available now, still in development, and doesn't cost anything to get into.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQ_cZnObMg
To soothe the pain, give it a try.
(My son is on harmony)
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
I understand where your frustration lies, but the case (lawsuit) you're bringing up is a case of essentially robbing people, I never said SC could take your money and run. That would indeed be criminal, and yes courts and kickstarter are starting to step up in regard to this. For kickstarter to be truly legitimate I think such steps are needed. Where I disagree is that it's bad for these companies to be going for extra funding, especially for a title the scope of SC. The more money they have the less likely things are to go wrong in such a case.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Paid by post or word? SOrry you post an ad for that game every other day it seems. It's been going on forever..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Neither one; I just really like the game. Apology accepted. No offense intended on my part.
edit: here's my bio - if my post was out of line a moderator can remove it. I just find that Vendetta is a very similar game in aspect to Star Citizen (if not in scope, presently edit2, 6/5/14: actually, as implemented now, Vendetta has a larger scope; Star Citizen has a larger scope planned)
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
ah I had totally forgot about this anyway..
OK I know it will be an alpha release anyway but I dont see any reason for them to release even an alpha build that does not work. Guys get the major bugs sorted first then let us test and find more bugs
3d artists have nothing to do with the bugs currently in game.. 3d artists can carry on making ships and ships and ships as they have nothing to do with the game coding and current bugs in game.
It does not look bad to me.. it actually looks like they care about the quality of the game they release even at the alpha stage.
Its about priorities.
It looks to me (and others) that their priority is on the Ca$h $hop- It also look s like (to me) the second they release something tangible its going to hurt the wave of hype and anticipation and hurt their Ca$h $hop sales. To me- This looks strategic whether I am right or wrong- It LOOKS that way.
However- That aside. They asked for a mere $500,000 and got close to 100 times what was asked for (I lost track but I know it hit at least 26 Million) so where is that money going? If this could have been done for 1//2 Million, why all the delay when they have far more what was asked for?
This looks like its being milked for everything its worth.
Instead of hiring ANY MORE 3D artists, they need to lay some off and hire programmers. My money was supposed to be for a game not to hire folks to make cash shop items before the game is even playable.
Enough Ships already- Enough selling shit for a "game" that does not exist.
That would be my main point. There is plenty of money to focus on development of the "game" and work on the cash shop later.
Its a poor way to run a company- Its also a trend that needs to stop.
Finish the shit before focusing on anything else- There are enough Ca$h $hop $hips for this game that does not yet exist.
Not even any UEC as a way for coming short once more on deadlines.
I do have a minimum understanding of game developing and of course this was suppose to happen since they got 40million they aimed for a game with a bigger scope with more complexity this means more bugs and more time losing trying to fix that.
Plus they have multiple teams over multiple locations that can also generate more bugs compare to a single local team.
You are also testing this game earlier than anticipated.
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Aka Darksparrow Rancorheart(tempest/farstar), Fxmkorp
the fact they have got so much money is the main reason they are even able to get close to releasing an early alpha of the combat... I guess if they had only got 500k then they would not be at this point yet.
Chill out relax wait for them to sort that major bugs they have listed.. dont worry about the cash shop I have not even looked at it once since backing early in the kickstarter.
Heh, I'm just giving you a hard time, I've tried it before ( based on one of your posts) that was a long time ago though.
It's not bad just extremely dated. It reminded me a bit of X2: The Threat graphically which isn't a bad thing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
If people weren't so gulliable and naive, CR wouldn't have all the money from donations so it isn't surprising at all people are still excusing him....
However, there is one thing you need to realize - "rushed" release is not a fault of a publisher, only one to blame is devs.
Publisher/investor gives them money to make a game -> devs do not meet deadlines - > devs run out of money - > game is released in unsatisfactory state.
So when CR says:
"This is the power of the crowdfunding that made Star Citizen possible: a publisher would make us ship tomorrow regardless of the current build quality"
It means = I can fck up with your money as much as I want as I am not liable for the money neither I have to answer to anyone.
Besides that, it is utter nonsense statement since money spent on delay cannot be spent on something else, they are gone. So there goes the rubbish about "quality", there is no such thing as "delayed for higher quality".
I cant even believe that this situation is happening, that a company is allowed to do this and people are so gullible..
at least look at the logic.
Logic says: if we need to release by X date, We need to allocate Y number of people to each department, and allow Z amount of time on each feature.
Why are they not hiring the appropriate number of people to adhere to schedule when they have 40+ MILLION DOLLARS in funds?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I think it's worth the wait. Personally going to wait until the game is finished, as they have more than enough money and I don't want to spoil it for myself by playing the unfinished version.
Also found this article on the topic at arstechnica
The whole discussion about how delays are better than releasing a buggy game is missing some points. First off, when publishers are pushing their devs to release a game at certain date, it is based on how costumers react to such events. If all players were such dedicated costumers, who are willing to support a final and polished product, no matter how long it took to finish it, then there would never be dead lines. Publishers realize that if the game takes too long to release after it's initial hype, players may get tired of waiting for it; hype is never constant; and other games are ready to take the spot of the delayed game. So what big-name publishers do by forcing deadlines is that they are securing their market share which is influenced not by shareholders but by actual players.
Not having a publisher and not having actual release dates, in my opinion, has no positive effect on how profitable the game will be. In general not having these components by having crowdfunds, only helps the devs themselves and not the players. The devs dont have the pressure of setting a goal while already having the money in their pockets, they can stretch the development for as long as they want and not worry much about the game flopping altogether, since they've already earned their paycheck.
This may have been true when they were only expecting 500k. When you have a 40 million dollar budget I think you have the funds available to get shit done in a more expedient manner.
Out of 200 employees there is probably 10 working on the dogfighter module.
It should not be used as a yardstick to measure what work is or has been done on the rest of the game. There are many things other than DF that are being worked on.
Meanwhile the team behind Elite: Dangerous has been cranking out fully functional alpha versions of their game for a while now, and on about 1/40th the budget.
At the pace RSI is going, I fully expect their game to release about the same time as E:D's second expansion.
Clarification: I hope SC comes out and is every bit as good as backers expect it to be. I'm just taking the piss out of RSI for my own amusement.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
More $$$ does not equal getting things done faster or better.
SWToR**cough**$200Mil**cough
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Games Played: Too Many
Only thing that would really piss me off is if they bring a new ship to market during the delay.
Very good solid point. I am still waiting on some games I backed in 2010 to get to beta.
is that the 3rd delay?
Do you guys watched their show at PAX? A massive disaster, one of the biggest fail on the gaming history. I felt so bad for Chris, i even though he was going to cry LIVE.
Sorry but Star Citizen is not going to happen.
Dont put hope in it or you guys are just going to be disapointed (and scammed btw).
Better ask for a refund before it's too late.
Bumpy road, just as I predicted. Though this is really just a small pothole. So far.
Roberts overweening, gigantic ego leads him to make some poor decisions, and to think that all he has to do is show up for things to be a success. This shouldn't be a shock to anyone, he previously presided over several Vaporware of the Year candidates, with extensive delays.
His salesmanship brilliance, though, has lead to unprecedented success in developing a cash-shop-in-advance system.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
CIG is play/testing the game day in and day out. We could be doing the same. We ALL KNOW this is way early testing, they've given us a shoddy, buggy, half-filled Hangar already and nobody dropped a brick over that.
There's no good reason not to release it as is to the backers, so they can kick the tires, too, AND TO GIVE some credibility to CIG for hitting a date for once.