I keep wonder when some smart dev is going to come up with the concept of a Sheepbot.
Games like AA inevitably die the big death as soon as all the big-bad-wolves -- well, those who imagine themselves such, anyway -- manage to chase away every non-masochist who tires of getting ganked by max levels as soon as they exit the newbville spawn point. Without "sheep", the "wolves" get bored. They sure aren't going to fight each other -- They might lose! -- and with no easy sheep they'll come up with some excuse or other and move on. Another PvP game bites the dust -- queue shocked expression.
What if instead devs secretly created Sheepbots? It wouldn't be difficult to code, I expect the hard part would be making sure there was no chance of one killing any of the "wolves" accidentally -- given the average "wolf" skill level, or lack thereof. Build in a tears routine, where the bot messages the killer with typical threats and whines (complete with appropriate misspellings and leetspeak, of course), add a /ragequit routine and you could feed the "wolves" an endless stream of Sheep(bots) without them ever being the wiser.
Let's face it, we're not talking about the sharpest knives in the drawer here to begin with.
The trick would be keeping the whole thing secret, but I really think it can be done easily enough.
May, in fact, exist today.
Nice to imagine it does, the irony of it all would just be too delicious for words.
The problem is that people expect EVERY game to cater to their play style and when it doesn't they become personally insulted and attack the game, the genre and other players.
Games have to stop trying to cater to everyone. Let's have pure PvE games for those that prefer it. Let's have Open World PvP games for those that prefer it. Neither is "better" inherently. I just want games to be FUN.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Exactly man, people have varying tastes and I just wish they would stop looking at every new game as if it was made for them personally. Something doesn't fit your tastes don't waste hours flaming it on forums because other people enjoy it, just move on to something else like anyone with common sense.
So many players roll on PVP servers in Theme Parks to be elitists, not for the PVP. Most of them just want to be able to say they are on a PVP server. There is no real PVP to be had. Theme Park OWPVP is nothing more than:
Strict PvEers will become extinct as soon as AI reaches the level of a human player. It's just a matter of time. You might as well get used to dealing with players who have the ability to harm you.
oh so true. Because I wonder what the so called PvEers will do when AI is modelled after human intelligence (in fact just PvP-haters, everyone does PvE anyway)
Log out of the game because I can't tell the whiners from the players.
Originally posted by Madimorga ArcheAge as it is now will never be my cup of tea, but judging by the way the PvP servers are blowing up in Wildstar right now, I'd say you guys might just have the numbers to keep ArcheAge alive without any PvE players at all. Your numbers seem to be growing. I plan to never share your open world games or servers ever again, but have fun anyway.
LOL did you really just post to tell the AA players you wont be joining us? Wow lol I think I will stop playing AA now ..Madigorga wont be playing AA the world is going to stop spinning and we are all going to fly 1000 miles and hour to our deaths . Please bro no one cares that you wont be playing AA I hope you enjoy WS I really do its a nice themepark with end game grind. Oh just so you know ...you can play AA without EVER PvPing its just not as much fun .
Hate to say this m8, but Archeage is only for the stronk people, the weak and the lonewolf gets eaten for breakfast. Seems you dont have the stomach to be part of this mmo.
Thats ok......there are other mmo's you can be part of and be a happy panda o/
looking forward to this game. Reminds me of having to find creative and sneaky ways to avoid ganks when I was out and about in the game world, back on Tallon Zek in EQ, or Lineage 2 and Aion...Nothing makes me want to level up and grow in power in an MMO when I have RL players and enemy guilds to payback. wish they would hurry up and launch.
This is what it's all about to me. I love the rivalries and the guild wars that are created in open world pvp. I love the notoriety or the infamy of certain players. I love the competition. I love the risk. I love the respect you need to have for another player knowing you're not invulnerable by the software, so you can't just be mouthing off or harassing without repercussion. I've never really been a "PK" as in one of those players who kill random players just to kill, but I actually welcome them very much. I love fighting against this type of player. I love having them roaming around the world making it dangerous and I love that when I get revenge it is on a real player. It means something so much greater than a soulless scripted NPC bot.
As far as getting killed when you're low level and weak, well this is where the fire is lit for vengeance later in life. You see, this has been kind of ruined lately by developers who allow free or paid name changes, or by breaking up fixed communities with phasing and cross-realming. This circumvents the reputation that you create and carry throughout your character's life. This reputation should always remain with you by people recognizing you in a persistent community with the same name you've always had. And if they do allow you to change your name, this shouldn't be allowed often and there should still be a way for other players to know it is the same player. This way people will have to be more careful about what kind of reputation they want to have. Do they really want to be known as a murderer who is often killed on sight or have an easier life?
looking forward to this game. Reminds me of having to find creative and sneaky ways to avoid ganks when I was out and about in the game world, back on Tallon Zek in EQ, or Lineage 2 and Aion...Nothing makes me want to level up and grow in power in an MMO when I have RL players and enemy guilds to payback. wish they would hurry up and launch.
That would have been it for me aswell.
However AA is centred around a token called Gilda Stars. Soon they will patch the Alpha servers and Gilda Stars can only be earned by doing daily quests, racial storyline and intercontinental traderoutes. The Gilda Stars are the currency that allows you to buy the endgame blueprints for housing, ships, etc. Dailies quests are limited, you can only do around 5 a day. The racial story line quests will be capped on account level, which means you can make alts and delete them, at a certain point you stop getting Gilda Stars. (currently Gilda Stars are none tradeable even on your own account, but blueprints are tradeable) So you that means I have to do Intercontinental Traderoutes. Here comes the catch. I can sneak my way into the hostile port, fight my way in, etc, but I have to manually turn in the tradepacks at the npc. Enemy faction can attack me and I can only attack them after they have attacked me. Flagging is really biased. As when I am in a group, the groupmembers can not join the fight till they have been attacked themselves. So a fair chunk of the pvp champions will be waiting at these npcs, waiting for people who are slowed (tradepacks make you really slow) by their tradepacks.
As for the world pvp and the zones, well the world is rather small. It even gets smaller with all the fast travel options. AA does not have a massive world. Killed a ganker? The respawn points are ridicules close. Within 2 minutes they will be back in the fight. Think you can hide on the open ocean? Not really, there is something called radar. Well you can counter their radar with your own radar and sail away. Yet there are things to do like fishing and treasure hunting, which require you to be stationary.
If you drop 150$ for a product you do not like and do not enjoy, You will understand xD
Which is funny because unlike some of you carebear haters and "true PvPers", he has actually supported the game, and by that I don't mean "forum defending" (LOL)
Fortunately I didn't buy the game. I thought about buying it instead of Wildstar because I prefer more sandbox and because I heard a PVE player might get by okay, then I did more research and realized that is mostly a load of crap. It is not a game for PVE players.
And I figured the game will still do fine with the PvP crowd, since there seems to be lots of them filling the Wildstar servers. So good for them. I hope the ruder ones in this thread play AA exclusively for many years, because I sure don't want them in any game I play. I hope you nice PvPers kill them often.
Eventually a game will come along that is more sandbox than themepark and that doesn't have ganking as a feature, and I'll buy it, and I'll play it. This one just isn't it. But for those who enjoy that sort of thing, have fun.
Love the Sheepbot idea Myria came up with, though. Good laugh! I wouldn't be surprised if it something like that isn't already in use in some game or other.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Its quite the misconception that all PvE players are scared of the challenge that comes with fighting another player. Im a PvE only player and id love to fight AI enemies that are as skilled as other players. I dont get involved in PvP because i am trying to avoid the mentality that surrounds it.
Yup, its not that PvE players don't want a challenging opponent.
They just don't want their opponent to be a dick.
Yes. And no. There is even more to it than that.
I want to ROLE PLAY. In a world with real role playing going on there is no reason to kill me on the spot. You wouldn't do that in real life so why do it in a fantasy??? PvP'ers aren't role playing anything. They're more like robotic npc's than the npc's are. "Me kill." "Me kill." "Me kill." Why? What did I do to you to make you kill me? Nothing. That is my point. There is no story there being built between us. Your killing me doesn't allow you to take a special device from me that will help you rule the world. You just kill me because you can. For no reason. It's so fucking stupid. Where's the story in that?
Gods I love people who say PVE sandbox they're usually the same people who also want crafting and no item decay too! (this is probably gonna get deleted but meh... I really hate that sort of person because they're asking for a limited time MMO after which point crafting becomes shit and inflation shoots up through the arse end of God).
First off, the game does have multiple "Safe zones" where PvP isn't allowed, and you should be more than able to avoid most PvP in the game, but if you want max earnings for your farmed goods or what it might be, you should not be able to get paid the max earnings one can get without consequence that's just unbalanced imho, everyone would be major of the damn town with all that money.
After that being said, i'm not and have never been very good with pvp, i'd say i'm the casual PvE player, however mmorpgs without open world PvP just isn't an mmorpg in my eyes.
There's alot of RP'ers in pure PvE games, and i don't get it. Why play a game where 'If your loved one had a love affair with your ingame brother or whatnot you couldn't put a sword through his neck. AA has massive potential for RP'ing, with that, PvP should be right there with it.
And people getting ganked over and over again by the same person always have the option to call in high lvl paladin guy to come in a free them. It's seen before, and surely it will happen again.
Strict PvEers will become extinct as soon as AI reaches the level of a human player. It's just a matter of time. You might as well get used to dealing with players who have the ability to harm you.
Reading comprehension isn't one of your skills, is it? The dude did make a valid point as to the fact that AI is slowly getting better and better in games.
Current games deliberately have stupid AI. Smart AI would run and call for help and only pick fights when they have superior numbers. They wouldn't mill about pointlessly but hide in fortified positions and they'd help each other out. Every one of those behaviours could be programmed into games today.
Originally posted by rounner Current games deliberately have stupid AI. Smart AI would run and call for help and only pick fights when they have superior numbers. They wouldn't mill about pointlessly but hide in fortified positions and they'd help each other out. Every one of those behaviours could be programmed into games today.
Part of them could be without ballooning the budget yes but if you go past a certain level of simulated intelligence you start running into problems with bugs ( you could for example attack a bandit and that bandit calling out for help and it bug out and you wake up with the entire bandit base and the other 3 in the area's bandit squad land on top of you). Not saying it couldn't or shouldn't be done but if it is gamers should expect something else to suffer and considering the need for preservation of gameplay above all else that'll be eye-candy/graphics.
Comments
I keep wonder when some smart dev is going to come up with the concept of a Sheepbot.
Games like AA inevitably die the big death as soon as all the big-bad-wolves -- well, those who imagine themselves such, anyway -- manage to chase away every non-masochist who tires of getting ganked by max levels as soon as they exit the newbville spawn point. Without "sheep", the "wolves" get bored. They sure aren't going to fight each other -- They might lose! -- and with no easy sheep they'll come up with some excuse or other and move on. Another PvP game bites the dust -- queue shocked expression.
What if instead devs secretly created Sheepbots? It wouldn't be difficult to code, I expect the hard part would be making sure there was no chance of one killing any of the "wolves" accidentally -- given the average "wolf" skill level, or lack thereof. Build in a tears routine, where the bot messages the killer with typical threats and whines (complete with appropriate misspellings and leetspeak, of course), add a /ragequit routine and you could feed the "wolves" an endless stream of Sheep(bots) without them ever being the wiser.
Let's face it, we're not talking about the sharpest knives in the drawer here to begin with.
The trick would be keeping the whole thing secret, but I really think it can be done easily enough.
May, in fact, exist today.
Nice to imagine it does, the irony of it all would just be too delicious for words.
The problem is that people expect EVERY game to cater to their play style and when it doesn't they become personally insulted and attack the game, the genre and other players.
Games have to stop trying to cater to everyone. Let's have pure PvE games for those that prefer it. Let's have Open World PvP games for those that prefer it. Neither is "better" inherently. I just want games to be FUN.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The way it's explained in that video, it sounds like you can avoid pvp pretty easy.
Dont pve in war zones?
So many players roll on PVP servers in Theme Parks to be elitists, not for the PVP. Most of them just want to be able to say they are on a PVP server. There is no real PVP to be had. Theme Park OWPVP is nothing more than:
Yes: I wish to gank or be ganked
No: I do not wish to gank or be ganked
Log out of the game because I can't tell the whiners from the players.
LOL did you really just post to tell the AA players you wont be joining us? Wow lol I think I will stop playing AA now ..Madigorga wont be playing AA the world is going to stop spinning and we are all going to fly 1000 miles and hour to our deaths . Please bro no one cares that you wont be playing AA I hope you enjoy WS I really do its a nice themepark with end game grind. Oh just so you know ...you can play AA without EVER PvPing its just not as much fun .
Hate to say this m8, but Archeage is only for the stronk people, the weak and the lonewolf gets eaten for breakfast.
Seems you dont have the stomach to be part of this mmo.
Thats ok......there are other mmo's you can be part of and be a happy panda o/
This is what it's all about to me. I love the rivalries and the guild wars that are created in open world pvp. I love the notoriety or the infamy of certain players. I love the competition. I love the risk. I love the respect you need to have for another player knowing you're not invulnerable by the software, so you can't just be mouthing off or harassing without repercussion. I've never really been a "PK" as in one of those players who kill random players just to kill, but I actually welcome them very much. I love fighting against this type of player. I love having them roaming around the world making it dangerous and I love that when I get revenge it is on a real player. It means something so much greater than a soulless scripted NPC bot.
As far as getting killed when you're low level and weak, well this is where the fire is lit for vengeance later in life. You see, this has been kind of ruined lately by developers who allow free or paid name changes, or by breaking up fixed communities with phasing and cross-realming. This circumvents the reputation that you create and carry throughout your character's life. This reputation should always remain with you by people recognizing you in a persistent community with the same name you've always had. And if they do allow you to change your name, this shouldn't be allowed often and there should still be a way for other players to know it is the same player. This way people will have to be more careful about what kind of reputation they want to have. Do they really want to be known as a murderer who is often killed on sight or have an easier life?
That would have been it for me aswell.
However AA is centred around a token called Gilda Stars. Soon they will patch the Alpha servers and Gilda Stars can only be earned by doing daily quests, racial storyline and intercontinental traderoutes. The Gilda Stars are the currency that allows you to buy the endgame blueprints for housing, ships, etc. Dailies quests are limited, you can only do around 5 a day. The racial story line quests will be capped on account level, which means you can make alts and delete them, at a certain point you stop getting Gilda Stars. (currently Gilda Stars are none tradeable even on your own account, but blueprints are tradeable) So you that means I have to do Intercontinental Traderoutes. Here comes the catch. I can sneak my way into the hostile port, fight my way in, etc, but I have to manually turn in the tradepacks at the npc. Enemy faction can attack me and I can only attack them after they have attacked me. Flagging is really biased. As when I am in a group, the groupmembers can not join the fight till they have been attacked themselves. So a fair chunk of the pvp champions will be waiting at these npcs, waiting for people who are slowed (tradepacks make you really slow) by their tradepacks.
As for the world pvp and the zones, well the world is rather small. It even gets smaller with all the fast travel options. AA does not have a massive world. Killed a ganker? The respawn points are ridicules close. Within 2 minutes they will be back in the fight. Think you can hide on the open ocean? Not really, there is something called radar. Well you can counter their radar with your own radar and sail away. Yet there are things to do like fishing and treasure hunting, which require you to be stationary.
Fortunately I didn't buy the game. I thought about buying it instead of Wildstar because I prefer more sandbox and because I heard a PVE player might get by okay, then I did more research and realized that is mostly a load of crap. It is not a game for PVE players.
And I figured the game will still do fine with the PvP crowd, since there seems to be lots of them filling the Wildstar servers. So good for them. I hope the ruder ones in this thread play AA exclusively for many years, because I sure don't want them in any game I play. I hope you nice PvPers kill them often.
Eventually a game will come along that is more sandbox than themepark and that doesn't have ganking as a feature, and I'll buy it, and I'll play it. This one just isn't it. But for those who enjoy that sort of thing, have fun.
Love the Sheepbot idea Myria came up with, though. Good laugh! I wouldn't be surprised if it something like that isn't already in use in some game or other.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Yes. And no. There is even more to it than that.
I want to ROLE PLAY. In a world with real role playing going on there is no reason to kill me on the spot. You wouldn't do that in real life so why do it in a fantasy??? PvP'ers aren't role playing anything. They're more like robotic npc's than the npc's are. "Me kill." "Me kill." "Me kill." Why? What did I do to you to make you kill me? Nothing. That is my point. There is no story there being built between us. Your killing me doesn't allow you to take a special device from me that will help you rule the world. You just kill me because you can. For no reason. It's so fucking stupid. Where's the story in that?
First off, the game does have multiple "Safe zones" where PvP isn't allowed, and you should be more than able to avoid most PvP in the game, but if you want max earnings for your farmed goods or what it might be, you should not be able to get paid the max earnings one can get without consequence that's just unbalanced imho, everyone would be major of the damn town with all that money.
After that being said, i'm not and have never been very good with pvp, i'd say i'm the casual PvE player, however mmorpgs without open world PvP just isn't an mmorpg in my eyes.
There's alot of RP'ers in pure PvE games, and i don't get it. Why play a game where 'If your loved one had a love affair with your ingame brother or whatnot you couldn't put a sword through his neck. AA has massive potential for RP'ing, with that, PvP should be right there with it.
And people getting ganked over and over again by the same person always have the option to call in high lvl paladin guy to come in a free them. It's seen before, and surely it will happen again.
And stop generalizing PvP'ers that's just low.
Reading comprehension isn't one of your skills, is it? The dude did make a valid point as to the fact that AI is slowly getting better and better in games.
Part of them could be without ballooning the budget yes but if you go past a certain level of simulated intelligence you start running into problems with bugs ( you could for example attack a bandit and that bandit calling out for help and it bug out and you wake up with the entire bandit base and the other 3 in the area's bandit squad land on top of you). Not saying it couldn't or shouldn't be done but if it is gamers should expect something else to suffer and considering the need for preservation of gameplay above all else that'll be eye-candy/graphics.