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Thinking of Playing EvE? Perhaps reconsider.
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Seems you are one of those wonderful human beings who are not able to distinguish game from reality.
"EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran
Donno about Doc but I often give my seat to old people, women with children, injured people,etc on the bus and I am a 9 year old vet of EVE
oh and I also did similar stuff in-game :P I once caught a noob stealing from my can not knowing it would get him in trouble and I blew up his ship, he was quite upset and pm'd me, once I figured out he was a noob and did not know the flagging mechanics I told him how I got kill rights on him and his jaw dropped and felt stupid for it... I gave him enough money to buy a cruiser and outfit it for his level when the ship I shot apart was a kestrel-class frigate because the dude was alright, admitted blame and learned from it, no reason to be an ass to him. I've also helped people in noob chat, jumped into level 2 missions in a tech 3 cruiser to help a noob out, let a groups of salvagers clean out my missions when I also did salvage without taking any of the profits, etc,etc.
We aren't all sociopaths to nice people, but should I run into an asshole... well it's just skin steven
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@Dihoru
You keep bringing up WoW.
I have yet to see threads about WoW welcoming a player back, where they know he had to take a forced break because he got cancer and they do so by ripping him off.
Every game has its griefers and drama but no game regularly releases such disgusting news as EVE does.
It's sadly telling that Eve Uni is pretty much perma-wardecced.
As for the second line... Ah, irony.
Eve suffers from its two fundamental laws being mutually exclusive:
1) Trust no one, ever.
2) It's boring as fuck to play it solo.
The main point is this: people are reading this thread because they are uncertain as to whether they should play Eve or not.
The general advice is a resounding "No!"
The game is expensive for what it is.
It's a game that requires long-term commitment. What is the point in playing a game that requires long-term commitment when it's on a maintainance budget, the company is firing staff, and there are better games coming out on the near horizon?
What does having cancer have to do with your ship being blown up?
If your termianlly ill should no one kill you in game because of it ?
And there is a small factor in EVE called - PVP.
http://themittani.com/features/6vdt-cfc-battle-report
I was there on winning side.
But all you have seen is people crying how someone stole their pink pony. This battle was result of over a month of small skirmishes and relentless 23/7 fleets on both sides.
EDIT:
Article on advice for would be CEO in normal EVE corp.
http://themittani.com/features/corner-office-guide-corporate-security
Now translate to garden variety MMO and guild in such an MMO. Of what is needed to lead one. YOu might get a granded scope of what kind of players like this game.
Uhm sorry what? What does pvp have to do with this?
These guys were his "friends" not his enemies. They knew about his story.. they welcomed him back.. they ripped him off.
Proof?
(do not supply the guardian article, actual press releases from credible sources please)
Better games? Both Elite and SC are not MMOs, the only one that could be competition to EVE is The Repopulation because they are both sandboxes in a sci-fi setting and Repop may one day go into space but direct competition from the two upcoming sims? Elite may possibly take some people away but it does not have the same scope and SC is hopelessly outgunned here from the start because it will launch in 1-2 years and it will require high end computers to play.
That said it isn't really that expensive for what it is... 15 USD a month for a living world where players can have a say in what goes on if they play their cards right is a small price and if my hunch is correct the EVE Universe will get a whole-lot bigger in the coming year.
Also to the person who said EVE-Uni is permadecced:
http://killfeed.eveuniversity.org/
They are holding their own while being made up of a sizable chunk of new players.
Happens in all MMOs, just because EVE is a big fat target does not mean it is unique in this (WoW, Age of Conan, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars the Old Republic to name the ones I've seen this sort of event in personally and where said event did not result in any bans).
It has to do with what kind of game EVE is.
Its a PVP oriented game with extremely complicated meta game involved or should I say intertwined.
Thats what EVE is at its core.
Also there are almost, ALMOST, no rules. Its sandbox game.
But lets take another route shall we ...
"When Goonswarms leader stood up and belittled, humiliated, shared private correspondence and encouraged a player to commit suicide at CCP's fanfest, both the audience and developers who were presence laughed along with him. Was he permbanned, no."
- Mittens lost his CSM president seat ( Google EVE CSM ) , he was perma banned from candidating again. The incident did not happened in game so in game account ban was impossible,
"Recently a coalition (NC Dot) invited a person whom they knew was recovering from cancer to join their coalition. They invited him to put all this stuff into a carrier and provided him with a cynosaural jump point into their null sec space. They then proceeded to blow everything he had up and pod him. A guy with cancer? This is the sort of depravity that should never exist in any game. What did CCP do? Nothing. "
- Would you mind supplying link to those forums post or any other data besides your claims this is actually what happened ? How do you know they did not have a laugh and then just sent him 10+ Bil ISK hour later with note like - wellcome back f***r. Now get into a ship, we have a roam in 30 min.
fact he has cancer has nothing, NOTHING, to do with game.
"Which brings me to my own experience with griefing and developer apathy. In early February I decided to help a group of players set up a non-kill on sight area in Stain null sec. At this same time a player or players created 3 alt accounts, sent those alts out to Stain where they proceeded to follow me from system to system, verbally abusing me in local for hours at a time. I was called a pedophile and accused of watching child pornography as well as being subjected to constant foul language. This went on non-stop for 4 months."
And this is the reason why we have this thread in first place. You decided to have care bear piece of space, where all would live in peace and love, in 0.0 space. Its like taking your friends and family into a war zone and then be shocked when they all get shot, maimed and or raped.
As for that guy you had some choices: kill him, put him on ignore list, unsub. Crying on EVEO forums is not on that short list. Because others will come to kill time while their main is laging in 10% TiDi.
Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
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Same.
If there is something I like about EVE, it's that it is a very atmospheric game. On that level, it's great.
But then there is all the rest which tips the scales against it. And by "the rest", I mostly mean the player base. Sure, you shouldn't trust anyone. But the end result of that is that if you don't know (from real life or at least from another game) anyone who already plays EVE, you're just going to get bored doing single-player stuff because nobody in their right mind would trust a stranger. And there is not much a small group of people can do by themselves either. This is a game where large organized communities (like Goons) can thrive because everything takes place on the meta level. And now these large organized communities have a stranglehold on all political matters surrounding the game. Would anyone regard Mittani as a guru if he weren't a Goon?
The other problem is the skill earning system, in real time. Someone who starts playing today is never going to catch up with someone who has been playing, or rather, subscribed, for a decade. I know it's quite fashionable among some people to say "you only really need x months' worth of skills to be able to get something worthwhile out of a ship", by which they mean a T1 frigate, of course. But even then someone who spent longer at the game is going to be able to get more out of that same frigate - and as the game grows older, it only gets worse. Which explains why CCP is so keen on selling multiple accounts - that's the only way to make their revenues increase if there's no influx of new players.
And by now everything is old. Groups may win or lose a few more systems out in nullsec, but they are always going to be the same groups. The problem with EVE now is that while there is something appealing in the immensity of space, there is nothing left to discover. That reminds me of when Uncharted Waters Online opened its western server. It was brand new, in theory, but the game had been running in East Asia for years, so every aspect of the game was catalogued on Japanese and Korean wikis. Everybody knew what would unlock where and at what level. There was no sense of discovery, none of the fun of trial-and-error approaches. You did everything as the Japanese and Korean wikis told you. And in EVE, it's the same thing. Sure, established players will tend to be parsimonious in dispensing their knowledge, because every bit of information might be something they could use against you - or vice versa - one day, but there is nothing left that nobody has discovered. Whatever it is that you think you'll discover in EVE, you'll just be running into what other people already know. And that's boring.
Indeed, player driven economy with deep industry in a sandbox with tactical and strategical warfare vs. flying around in a single ship trading with npcs. Only with no brain will you compare them.
But the whole discussion is funny. All the scams in EvE (and also in real life) work on the greed of the prospective victim. If it is the ISK doubler, the friendly Goons transporting your stuff for free to the real lucrative sov in 0.0 they hold to the RL Nigeria scam or people promising HUGE return on capital with penny stocks they altruistically bring to your attention.
People greedy enough to turn off their brains work as honeypots in EvE. They attract all the scum, so we others can better identify people to set red. But instead of being proud on delivering such an excellent service to the community at large by being the ritual sacrifices they act entitled. Entitled to be complete and utter morons and getting away with it unscathed.
It is not even their fault. All those MMOs with a nanny attitude did that to them. They learned that even the biggest idiot is an untouchable sacred entitiy as long as he is a paying customer. Doesn't work with real social interaction. Bad luck.
As others I found the community in EvE to be the best, most mature and helpful of all games I ever played with only Lotro coming near. In EvE a corp is a network of trust where you have to invest to get a return. Flying with people warrants actual sensible communication instead of calling each other names in a dungeon finder created band of strangers who think that all others suck.
Oh and by the way: CCP doesn not "allow" or "encourage" scams. They just chose (thank god) to not interfere into ingame affairs. Freedom forces responsibilty for your own decisions an actions, a lesson some people didn't understand yet. The same persons calling for freedom in real life are calling for an authoritarian regime with the equivalent of death penalty (perma ban) in the game world.... Which is a double joke, since in a game the consequences of bad decisions don't have an irrepairable effect like they have in real life.
And to close with a reference to the original post: Yes there are assholes in EvE. They are quite easy to spot and avoid . People like those "friends" don't develop such an attitude just in 5 minutes. They were definitely asshats before that incident and will be asshats for the rest of their lives. I am pretty certain the podded guy knew of their asshattery, since it is common knowledge in EvE to never trust all your assets to some promise of strangers. Especially when they are from the big mafia blocks in 0.0. So hardly a victim here but again a person who thought to take an easy and lucrative shortcut.
If I go to 0.0 space, gank the ever loving f--- out of me if you want. I understand that's part of the game, even if I may not like it. But foul language, accusations of being a pedophile, and this for hours at a time for four months, that's, if anything, immature. But it's more than that; if they've figured out who you are in RL (especially if you've made the mistake of keeping the same in-game name as in other games and they've Googled their way to more information from there), libelous.
What you don't seem to get is why should it be in CCP's interest that someone can be bullied or intimidated into leaving the game (putting him on ignore isn't enough if he's tailing you at all times just to harass you), and persuading others not to play it as a result of their story. I know that CCP has always pandered to the dregs of online gaming, but what else do they have to keep the company afloat apart from EVE? Dust 514 fizzled, if I remember, and they canned World of Darkness.
And your comment indicates also that you expect every player in EVE to be either a conniving prick or a weakling to be driven out. Guy's a cancer survivor? Clearly a sob story that's a fib from start to finish, and if that's true, he's too weak for EVE! Someone threatens to commit suicide? Obviously a liar, or else he's at the bottom of our Spatial Darwinian order, so either way he's fair game! (And it's not because it appears that his priorities are misplaced - i.e. worrying about a bunch of pixels to the point of considering suicide - that he's necessarily lying, or it's your sacred duty to set him right through abuse if you believe him.) Whenever I hear horror stories from China or Korea about players committing murder based on some humiliation that happened in a game, I think: it's only a matter of time before that happens for something that occurred in EVE. And when that happens, you can bet the response will be very swift on all the little hijinks going on in the game -- if not from CCP, then from government authorities.
I'll go as far as to say that the only possible reason the Margin Trading skill exists is to let the scammers run wild with it.
Not to mention other features of the game which were used exclusively for scamming, like those player-set courier assignments running through low-sec asking for a stupidly high collateral. I vaguely remember CCP got rid of that because nobody was setting up legitimate offers - they were all scams, and when a scam becomes common knowledge, it's no longer a scam, is it?
Sorry to be so blunt, but you are hating for hates' sake, are you?
Margin trading CAN be used for ONE type of pretty obvious scam. A lot of people use it to make some relatively easy passive income. I used to when my chars were quite new. Today I see it as a convenient service to dump loot, because I am mostly too lazy to set up sell orders in numbers myself. Without margin trading the speed and volume of trade especially in the less sought after goods would be far too small to be relevant and it would hurt the economy quite a lot. When all buy orders in the more obscure corners of the market would have to be covered 100% nobody would put them up, all would compete in the few direly needed product groups, the rest would be refined and hurt the mineral market on top. Dead economy and dead game.
As for courier contracts: Of course they still exist and of course you are free to set start and delivery systems in high low or 0.0 and of course the freighter/jump freighter pilots can just choose to chuckle and take other contracts. Everybody who actually has stuff to deliver uses either corp services or red frog + subsidiaries. I would never even bother to transport stuff with a collateral of a billion when the possible reward is like 2 million and especially not when I'd have to enter low or 0.0 for that. It's just stupid. I have to shoot 2 fucking npc battleships in 0.0 or lvl 4 missions for at least the same income and with no risk of losing a billion in collaterals and another 1.6-6.5 billion for the hauler. And believe it or not. Most players know that, a lot of the remaining guess it because they are smart and the rest... oh well.. they would probably invest when you make them buy stocks in the tooth fairy business.
Not at all. I'm not here to be a white knight, but margin trading and contracts are far from griefing mechanics. Margin trading is essential to any large scale trader as a way to keep your cash flow, and there are plenty of legit public contracts, and even a few trusted delivery corps (like redfrog or pushX). And to be honest it's fairly easy to spot most scams you see thesedays. You don't really know much what you're talking about, there's far more serious mechanic issues with the game than petty contract scams - just look at the ability to shoot fleet/corp members in hisec witouth being concorded. That is actually something with no legitimate use.
This only applies to corpmates. Fleet does not affect concord in any way or manner (I read it used to be like you said a loooong time ago).
About legitimate use of that feature...
How about corp training without half of low/null interfering?
How about infiltrating a corp as a hitman/merc to get a kill on someone when he/she his flying something expensive?
Yes, the latter is as legitimate as the former.
Sounds like you're ralllying against the spirit of what an MMORPG should be - unpredictable, dynamic, and, sometimes, harsh.
CCP don't step into stop griefing because it is part of the fabric of their universe, it's a simulation, and if someone wants to act with the moral compass of an 18th century pirate, then so be it. It's then upto the rest of the playerbase to take up arms against it and dynamically and organically respond - maybe form their own vigilante groups, set bounties, and help out newbies. As soon as you take away this aspect, EO becomes a boring, stale, sterile place.
And this comes from someone who doesn't play the game, just admires what CCP have managed to create. It isn't perfect but it's about the closest you can get to a virtual world.
Because accusing someone of watching child pornography is oh so part of the EVE universe, you think?
You bring up some interesting points there. That is the different notions of "game" people have in mind when talking about MMOs. Th original vision of the genre was to deliver ever refined world simulations with players being able to control most aspects of the game world and become heroes, villains, leaders, soldiers, craftsmen and so on with little limits to their experience in the simulated world.
This notion of game is actually very near to the RP in MMORPG and it was supported by experimenting with quite different game systems and character development avenues.
Then WoW happened and it was - in the very sense of the word - a game changer. Not even much by itself, especially in Vanilla it still had quite some world simulation aspects. The main impact it had, was that its financial success spawned a helluva lot of clones, which differed only in minor aspects and tried to jump on the bandwagon and get a piece of the suddenly bigger cake. But until those games came out in numbers WoW had changed its original design into a streamlined version of itself on rails. Just compare the original Alterac Valley to what it became later on. The clones followed until today and this kind of MMOs changed from RPGs aka simulations to MOBAs where the world is completely void and unimportant once you leveled and most of the game is standing in a place waiting for the next premade experience in a dungeon or battleground to pop.
This notion of game is very far from any kind of RP and also very far from the MM in MMORPG, since regardless how many people are on the server you are typically only playing in groups of 4-6 with occasional "raids" of 10 to 25 and bigger numbers being a rare exception. The lobby-game nature of social interaction also makes fore the reduction of actual massiveness in the multiplayer aspect and shifts the style of playing to mini games which can be done in an hour or less.
The first type of games needs creativity, socializing and ruthlessness to become a good simulation. You need people to like and people to loathe to make the whole game dynamic. Players actually have to invest time and effort into the gameworld to bring it to life and create content. The second type of game is more like watching a move where you get the chance to make minor adjustment at certain points in the neverending loop. The world became unimportant and not worthwhile except for the most diehard gatherers and explorers. The big bad entities which are according to the lore a danger to life as we know it die. Every day. Multiple times. Over and over. Like in the film Groundhog Day you know exactly what will happen and the whole game is a deja vu. And this is supported by taking away the last remnants of a chance to make it dynamic. Remember death alley on the way to Blackrock? Needing to group up to get to dungeon entrances?
Most probably don't and think being ported directly into a dungeon is a great feature. Well it is, but only in a MOBA style lobby game, not in a MMORPG deserving all of its letters.
You know very well none of those things really happen. Pvp practice in highsec is best done with wardecs (see rvb). And the only reason people are using this 'feature' is to bypass the concord mechanics witouth having to get a limited engagement, disguising it as 'legitimate' use doesn't really hold water.
Combined with the inability to kick someone out of corp while in space makes it for nothing but a griefing mechanic. There is no sensible reason you'd be allowed to attack your own allies with no repercussions or their own consent (i.e wardec, concord). Attacking allies in every other part of space subjects you to the exact same rules as attacking an outside (criminal and suspect agression, militia standings loss, etc). As such makes it makes no sense to be free of consequences when doing it in highsec. There is a reason drone agression was fixed with the new deployables some months ago - because it didn't make sense and wasn't consistent with other in-game mechanics.
And no, I don't play on a highsec corp and I was never attacked because of this. As someone that PVPs on a daily basis, I still find it extremly stupid. It has very negative effects in the game and discourages socializing, which causes a lot of new people to leave.
Infiltrating a corp to attack people is perfectly legit. Dodging its consequences trough shady mechanics is not, as this does not happen anywhere else in the game.
You should be a bit more cautios with bold statements about "a lot of new people". Not everybody meets Goons or Test as his first space buddies. In the highsec branch we take a lot of new players in on a regular basis and of course the shock is big when they get podded for the first time in their virtual space pilot life. Most people coming from other games have devloped a strange attraction to pixels and get very emotional when someone does evil things to them. But this is not the point made by the majority of the people who quit. The main reason voiced is that things take too long. They miss the ability to grind their way to "maxlevel" and get instant gratifications left and right. The second reason is that the game is too complex/too much work :P
About dodging consequences... Everybody has it in his own hands which corp he joins or as a CEO which applicants are accepted. Awoxing is a very valid and traditional game mechanic which probably created more content than CCP and there is no reason to restrict it to low and nullsec where CONCORD doesn't interfere at all.
And there are dodged consequences which I find much more annoying personally. Cloaky afk campers where you can do nothing against unless they royally fuck up, jump freighters to avoid most of the dangers highsec haulers have to face and so on. Just that when thinking closely about those mechanics I cannot come up with a better solution. They are still annoying but probably near the best way to implement in the EvE environment.
...you're comparing people mouthing off in a videogame to people raping a girl in real life?
On what planet are those two situations even remotely close in seriousness?
Don't make such profoundly ridiculous comparisons if you want to be taken seriously.
Where's the any key?