Teamwork? All I ever saw was a bunch of players running around like chickens with their heads cut off avoiding NPCs that would 2 shot you.
Trinity allows people to play the roles they enjoy and just because a game has a trinity system doesn't mean you can just stand around doing nothing but spamming spells. That's an extremely hyperbolic statement and you see many games out there (even those without strict trinity systems) that allow people to do such.
You just didn't see much.
Generally you see 5 players stacked in a corner wiping a boss before he can one shot anything (which is the problem with many dungeons). And the few dungeons/fractals where stacking doesn't work, you see people complaining about it and refusing to take more supportive builds instead of the zerker builds that are so efficient with corner stacking.
The first part of your post is the same type of extremely hyperbolic statement you are complaining about in the second part.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
well there you can be a healer, a buffer or a tank. But all of these roles are banished cause of the speed runs .. If they added fights where for a period of time you have to survive or lure a boss to an area where you will be able to hit etc, it will be interesting, there are such bosses encounters but players avoid them cause they want speed runs ... thats the reason i avoid dungeons .
at least in WvW there are roles ... but for a good heal the whole team have to co-op, the one who will apply the field, the others who will blast it, everyone who has to be in the area and NOT apply other field ...
NO the trinity is NOT there, that's why this game has NO staying power. Way too easy and no way to differentiate yourself or play a significant role in this game. Along with WORTHLESS crafting, the game to me had no drawback power what-so-ever. And yes I capped 3 toons lvl and crafting...so don't tell me I didn't play it.
Completely hate this games combat/anti trinity system and community. I'm playing it right now because I thought the trait changes would make a healing ele nice. So while healing ele works a little tiny bit based on my AC runs, it's not optimal.
It just isn't.
I realized after doing it a few runs I was doing more harm than good by not providing my group with pure DPS like everyone else. It's so much faster to go DPS and zerg the content down.
Is it fun? Hell no, I am sad that my support ele is useless in PvE.
People write in LFG zerker only, power only, no necros, exp only, speed run only - and so on. People also mostly want warrs/guards. I ended up giving in and joining the zerker meta and sure enough it's super fast and efficient. It's just a sad reality of this game. Zerg and zerg, grind and grind. People on anets official forums beg in thread after thread to change the meta and anet just doesn't care and abandoned their own balance based threads discussing how crazy thief is in pvp, or how groups still only want all dps all zerker or how warrs are STILL the favored class. It really seems anet would rather pump out more cash shop crap and poorly written story. Many of their own players dislike the story. Not all, but a good majority. It's really the weaker aspect of the game..I'd rather see balance changes and the viablity of other roles AND classes.
Just going to reinstall ESO atm because I can at least play a non mongo role in it.
GW2 PvE in a nutshell. Screenshot taken right this moment lol.
The change of stats from crit dmg to ferocity was completely useless..only thing it brought were lvl 30-40 broken dungeons due to how bad it scales on downleveled characters. They have to rework how fight works not nerf gear or professions. Change fights in a way that they can't be skipped or nuked by 200db warriors in seconds..
It's honestly a bit surprising that they haven't done more to tone down the zerk meta that has been (with very few exceptions) the name of the game since 2012. Not that it is honestly that much different than other popular MMOs these days - dungeons in modern trinity-based games are mostly just AoE-spam-speed-runs. People have no time for drawn out dungeons that requires strategy and communication any longer.
Originally posted by bentrim NO the trinity is NOT there, that's why this game has NO staying power. Way too easy and no way to differentiate yourself or play a significant role in this game. Along with WORTHLESS crafting, the game to me had no drawback power what-so-ever. And yes I capped 3 toons lvl and crafting...so don't tell me I didn't play it.
Worthless crafting?
Crating is the most practical way of getting ascended weapons and armor.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
A zerk guardian/mesmer that know when to put his reflections and buff when boss is about to shot is more valuable than a guard siting on healing gear spaming staff1
A zerk warrior who brings banners and might/fury buff and trait Empower Allies(+150 power for party) bring more support than a warior sitting on defensive gear using healing shouts.
A ranger who traits spotter(+150 precision to party) and bring traited frost spirit (+10% damage bonus) is more supportive than a ranger siting afar with long bow
A elementalist who focus on full damage to melt boss(lles time on boss less damage on party members) is more supportive than a healing traited ele.
Exemples go on..
The support system on Gw2 is different, is more active. requires awareness of the environment and game mechanics. Thats why experinced ppl waltz thought the dungeons while inexperienced players, wanting to play trinity, complaing.
Seek the forums for detailed information on how things work.
see ya o/
now: GW2 (11 80s). Dark Souls 2. future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord. "Bro, do your even fractal?" Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
The result is that dungeons are genuine crap. All classes (and builds) are so soft against dungeon mobs that all classes can be considered glass cannons. The game starts having dungeons from lvl 30, 35 and so on, but go and try to do a dungeon at that level and the game will faceroll you.
In fact you won't be able to even get a group at this lvl cause all groups want fully maxed characters (ie lvl 80) to do that lvl30-35 dungeons... At first i thought it was gamers' elitism and convenience of the easy way, but once i maxed my char and joined these groups i realized how wrong i was, and how deeply flawed is GW2 when it comes to dungeons (it is on other things too like WvW, but i ll stay on topic).
So what exactly happens when you join a dungeon? You get one shotted, two shotted max. Somebody resses you, then you go res other people... That's all the "fun". Whoever isn't dead or ressing someone, does some damage, and the whole group just hopes you will finally kill whatever you re fighting, and proceed to the next fight, which will be pretty much the same thing. The game even has a set of runes that are totally focused on ressing (mercy).
What other approach do you have, for when the death ratio is bigger / faster than the res ratio, what you do at that point? Well the only thing you can do there is... hacking! Yes, i am absolutely serious. At first time in such an encounter, i found out we could only do it if we abused the mob's LoS and AI altogether. We were hiding behind a corner and attack the mob on the other side on the corner, while it was busy to do his over-9k damage attack, and then it would run for us, so we swapped onto the other side of the corner to do the same. That's how we beat it. Later on, on the same dungeons, we were attacking mobs through a wall...
Both these techniques (corner, walls) i found out all by myself, so after we "finished" (we didn't finish, we quit at some point) that dungeon, i was wondering what was supposed to be the "official" way of doing the whole thing, without abusing LoS and mob's UI, without the attacks through wall... and guess what? I checked youtube and everyone was doing the same...
The result is that dungeons are genuine crap. All classes (and builds) are so soft against dungeon mobs that all classes can be considered glass cannons. The game starts having dungeons from lvl 30, 35 and so on, but go and try to do a dungeon at that level and the game will faceroll you.
I have been playing for over 15 years MMOs, most of the time as healer. Playing a game without the trinity system is extremely weird for me, despite the game being so good (exploration, social events, constant updates...)
But my worry is: what about endgame and dungeons? no trinity means no pre-defined roles, so how are 5 DPS going to finish dungeons?
Please elaborate your answer, would like to know your thoughts and expand my knowledge on this matter
Gw2 has different kind of combat. Sure nowadays the meta is to stack in whatever corner and dps the fuck out of the mobs but this doesn't work in high level fractals. And that is where Gw2's combat really shines. Combo fields, blasters and all kind of finishers really change out the game. The guardian can boost the group's survivability by so much its insane. Having ele to constantly drop water fields and blasting them is a HUGE plus for it.
Long story short, don't listen to the haters, they've played Gw2 for a month and are unable to do squat on their own. Gw2's combat is deep and requires, wait for the magic word, skill and reflexes!
Idk other way to explain it would be, hmm - Gw2 does have some soft trinity but it doesn't come from the profession. The gear and trait build gives you the ultimate dps, the ultimate tank, a hybrid, a group healer. With the new trait system its easier to swap those on the go. When I solo arah p2 I run the whole thing as defensive warrior and at the last boss I re-trait myself completely so that I'm able to do sick damages, swapping skills and items to please the trait synergies. It's kinda fascinating really. And I really don't understand how people claim that Gw2 has easy/boring combat. You guys haven't gone melee against Lupi if you claim that. Or have never faced Liadri in the Crown's Pavilion.
Although I think that Anet could make better dungeons cause some of them really needs to work over cause they are to easy.
Of course those are the ones the large majority actually play.
Not only that, the dungeons have been nerfed several times due to whiny players. I wish they kept the difficulty from the first beta weekend, it was awesome.
Heh I remember Ascalonian Catacombs was almost impossible at launch xD . I'm still not sure if its because I had shitty gear then or I wasn't as good as I am now or a mix of both but sheesh, We wiped so many times there, I was running naked at some point The spider was rather easy but maaan that Kholer surely was a douchebag. I have some golden moments in Gw2's launch, like running from Divinity's Reach to ascalonian catacombs because I had no clue there are asura gates xD passing high level zones as lvl 35, that is the shiz !
I have been playing for over 15 years MMOs, most of the time as healer. Playing a game without the trinity system is extremely weird for me, despite the game being so good (exploration, social events, constant updates...)
But my worry is: what about endgame and dungeons? no trinity means no pre-defined roles, so how are 5 DPS going to finish dungeons?
Please elaborate your answer, would like to know your thoughts and expand my knowledge on this matter
Gw2 has different kind of combat. Sure nowadays the meta is to stack in whatever corner and dps the fuck out of the mobs but this doesn't work in high level fractals. And that is where Gw2's combat really shines. Combo fields, blasters and all kind of finishers really change out the game. The guardian can boost the group's survivability by so much its insane. Having ele to constantly drop water fields and blasting them is a HUGE plus for it.
Long story short, don't listen to the haters, they've played Gw2 for a month and are unable to do squat on their own. Gw2's combat is deep and requires, wait for the magic word, skill and reflexes!
Idk other way to explain it would be, hmm - Gw2 does have some soft trinity but it doesn't come from the profession. The gear and trait build gives you the ultimate dps, the ultimate tank, a hybrid, a group healer. With the new trait system its easier to swap those on the go. When I solo arah p2 I run the whole thing as defensive warrior and at the last boss I re-trait myself completely so that I'm able to do sick damages, swapping skills and items to please the trait synergies. It's kinda fascinating really. And I really don't understand how people claim that Gw2 has easy/boring combat. You guys haven't gone melee against Lupi if you claim that. Or have never faced Liadri in the Crown's Pavilion.
lol, Liadri would probably give these people a seizure. Thats IF they managed to even get to her (which, with their level of skill, is very unlikely)
5 dps can do any dungeons, it takes teamwork. It is more difficult because there are no set roles but IMO that makes teamwork more valuable. Those who prefer to afk in dungeons or stand still ineficiently spamming taunt or heals in other mmos hate GW2 because they have to actually be active and without organization there will be an imminent wipe. GW2 dungeons are the Dark souls of mmos.
I personally love it, but i do realise that ANET could add a healing based weapon (similar to ESO) to help with the team healing in dungeons.
I dont do end game content in mmos so i dont know about the Fractals of the Mist (my end game starts when i create the character and ends when i move to another game)
I like how you talk about those who prefer to afk while spamming ineffecient taunts and heals, where in fact in the vast majority of MMOs, it is the DPS players who afk while they spam their buttons like crazy.
Basically the people who like the way guild wars 2 works are the people who play dps in other MMOs. Of course, they don't care if they removed the healing and tanking role cause they play DPS.
GW2 didn't remove roles. They just eliminated all roles except DPS.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
5 dps can do any dungeons, it takes teamwork. It is more difficult because there are no set roles but IMO that makes teamwork more valuable. Those who prefer to afk in dungeons or stand still ineficiently spamming taunt or heals in other mmos hate GW2 because they have to actually be active and without organization there will be an imminent wipe. GW2 dungeons are the Dark souls of mmos.
I personally love it, but i do realise that ANET could add a healing based weapon (similar to ESO) to help with the team healing in dungeons.
I dont do end game content in mmos so i dont know about the Fractals of the Mist (my end game starts when i create the character and ends when i move to another game)
I like how you talk about those who prefer to afk while spamming ineffecient taunts and heals, where in fact in the vast majority of MMOs, it is the DPS players who afk while they spam their buttons like crazy.
Basically the people who like the way guild wars 2 works are the people who play dps in other MMOs. Of course, they don't care if they removed the healing and tanking role cause they play DPS.
GW2 didn't remove roles. They just eliminated all roles except DPS.
Nah you're wrong there. The only one actually doing the work in a trinity-based game is the tank. Yeah yeah you'll say they have army of healers behind their backs but most of those games are balanced in a way that a healer can't keep you 100% hp 100% of the time. Every now and then the tank has to do some managing. The other 2 roles are basically afking.
Btw there is healing and tanking in Gw2. You should really check out some guardian/elementalist builds before giving your uneducated poor view of the game.
P.S: I've always played a tank in MMOs btw, lineage 2 aion tera rift wow and countless others korean grinders. I'm pretty fine in Gw2. #kkthxbye
5 dps can do any dungeons, it takes teamwork. It is more difficult because there are no set roles but IMO that makes teamwork more valuable. Those who prefer to afk in dungeons or stand still ineficiently spamming taunt or heals in other mmos hate GW2 because they have to actually be active and without organization there will be an imminent wipe. GW2 dungeons are the Dark souls of mmos.
I personally love it, but i do realise that ANET could add a healing based weapon (similar to ESO) to help with the team healing in dungeons.
I dont do end game content in mmos so i dont know about the Fractals of the Mist (my end game starts when i create the character and ends when i move to another game)
I like how you talk about those who prefer to afk while spamming ineffecient taunts and heals, where in fact in the vast majority of MMOs, it is the DPS players who afk while they spam their buttons like crazy.
Basically the people who like the way guild wars 2 works are the people who play dps in other MMOs. Of course, they don't care if they removed the healing and tanking role cause they play DPS.
GW2 didn't remove roles. They just eliminated all roles except DPS.
Nah you're wrong there. The only one actually doing the work in a trinity-based game is the tank. Yeah yeah you'll say they have army of healers behind their backs but most of those games are balanced in a way that a healer can't keep you 100% hp 100% of the time. Every now and then the tank has to do some managing. The other 2 roles are basically afking.
Btw there is healing and tanking in Gw2. You should really check out some guardian/elementalist builds before giving your uneducated poor view of the game.
P.S: I've always played a tank in MMOs btw, lineage 2 aion tera rift wow and countless others korean grinders. I'm pretty fine in Gw2. #kkthxbye
I play warrtank in www, 3500 toughness 2500ish power, 63 crit and 180 ish crit damage. Can survive ton and deals nice damage. Its a blast For everyone wo wants to get personal ;P
Terribly executed. While claiming "no trinity" in a way you are forced to a rather primitive one focusing on the three points "Control, Support, Damage" which oddly enough are what the original trinity was created from. They tried to push away from the trinity and it only enforced groups to NEED the trinity elements to succeed.
You will die a lot if you try and go in with just any makeup. You won't find much you can do if you aren't packing control and other elements. There is very little 'skill' can do to make up for not having the right kit to deal with the problems. Its just a giant uncontrolled mess of an experience in dungeons. In my time I found that trash mobs were the hardest thing in any dungeons I played, with bosses being a joke otherwise.
Without the trinity the only way to make it 'fair' would be to take out completely the difficulty. Guildwars 2 just shows the importance of the trinity, even if the trinity doesn't need to be stuck in the more specific "Tank/Heal/DPS" notch we too often consider it to be over its initially "Control/Support/Damage" roots.
[mod edit]
GW2's lack of trinity failed their original vision and PVE is more or less all dps now. The most efficient PvE is all about damage builds where players manually dodge what little damage there is. If you can't do GW2 PvE in full zerker then you shouldn't bother talking about it because you are bad.
Structured PvP is an entirely different beast. There is a lot more build variety in PvP, but due to ANet's love for capture points high end structured PvP is more about damage mitigation, CC and outnumbering your opponents than anything else. This makes for entirely unsatisfying matches where you knock your enemy around for several minutes until you outnumber them and eventually kill everyone off only to reappear on a different part of the map.
WvW is still the zerg it always was. Number rule. AoE this, rez that.. it's just as bad now as ever... or great if you like that.
But this "control/support/damage" stuff is pure BS. PvE is 100% damage or fail, structured PvP is control or fail, and WvW is all about numbers.
Terribly executed. While claiming "no trinity" in a way you are forced to a rather primitive one focusing on the three points "Control, Support, Damage" which oddly enough are what the original trinity was created from. They tried to push away from the trinity and it only enforced groups to NEED the trinity elements to succeed.
You will die a lot if you try and go in with just any makeup. You won't find much you can do if you aren't packing control and other elements. There is very little 'skill' can do to make up for not having the right kit to deal with the problems. Its just a giant uncontrolled mess of an experience in dungeons. In my time I found that trash mobs were the hardest thing in any dungeons I played, with bosses being a joke otherwise.
Without the trinity the only way to make it 'fair' would be to take out completely the difficulty. Guildwars 2 just shows the importance of the trinity, even if the trinity doesn't need to be stuck in the more specific "Tank/Heal/DPS" notch we too often consider it to be over its initially "Control/Support/Damage" roots.
[mod edit]
GW2's lack of trinity failed their original vision and PVE is more or less all dps now. The most efficient PvE is all about damage builds where players manually dodge what little damage there is. If you can't do GW2 PvE in full zerker then you shouldn't bother talking about it because you are bad.
Structured PvP is an entirely different beast. There is a lot more build variety in PvP, but due to ANet's love for capture points high end structured PvP is more about damage mitigation, CC and outnumbering your opponents than anything else. This makes for entirely unsatisfying matches where you knock your enemy around for several minutes until you outnumber them and eventually kill everyone off only to reappear on a different part of the map.
WvW is still the zerg it always was. Number rule. AoE this, rez that.. it's just as bad now as ever... or great if you like that.
But this "control/support/damage" stuff is pure BS. PvE is 100% damage or fail, structured PvP is control or fail, and WvW is all about numbers.
Terribly executed. While claiming "no trinity" in a way you are forced to a rather primitive one focusing on the three points "Control, Support, Damage" which oddly enough are what the original trinity was created from. They tried to push away from the trinity and it only enforced groups to NEED the trinity elements to succeed.
You will die a lot if you try and go in with just any makeup. You won't find much you can do if you aren't packing control and other elements. There is very little 'skill' can do to make up for not having the right kit to deal with the problems. Its just a giant uncontrolled mess of an experience in dungeons. In my time I found that trash mobs were the hardest thing in any dungeons I played, with bosses being a joke otherwise.
Without the trinity the only way to make it 'fair' would be to take out completely the difficulty. Guildwars 2 just shows the importance of the trinity, even if the trinity doesn't need to be stuck in the more specific "Tank/Heal/DPS" notch we too often consider it to be over its initially "Control/Support/Damage" roots.
[mod edit]
GW2's lack of trinity failed their original vision and PVE is more or less all dps now. The most efficient PvE is all about damage builds where players manually dodge what little damage there is. If you can't do GW2 PvE in full zerker then you shouldn't bother talking about it because you are bad.
Structured PvP is an entirely different beast. There is a lot more build variety in PvP, but due to ANet's love for capture points high end structured PvP is more about damage mitigation, CC and outnumbering your opponents than anything else. This makes for entirely unsatisfying matches where you knock your enemy around for several minutes until you outnumber them and eventually kill everyone off only to reappear on a different part of the map.
WvW is still the zerg it always was. Number rule. AoE this, rez that.. it's just as bad now as ever... or great if you like that.
But this "control/support/damage" stuff is pure BS. PvE is 100% damage or fail, structured PvP is control or fail, and WvW is all about numbers.
Thats what all the zerglings say.
People generally do that which is easiest and most effective...........
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
The system is challenging in dungeons. I like that, others may not. OP, the system works if you have a group that are committed to entering a dungeon and thinking ahead, somewhat like Vanilla WoW or EQ.
Recently people have spilled out of other games like MoP or Rift looking for something new, and expect the dungeons to be as simple, they want instant gratification and it doesn't happen. When it doesn't happen they give up and say it doesn't work.
IMHO this system should have been in place before the trinity. /shrug
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I have been playing for over 15 years MMOs, most of the time as healer. Playing a game without the trinity system is extremely weird for me, despite the game being so good (exploration, social events, constant updates...)
But my worry is: what about endgame and dungeons? no trinity means no pre-defined roles, so how are 5 DPS going to finish dungeons?
Please elaborate your answer, would like to know your thoughts and expand my knowledge on this matter
Anet touted that you could complete any dungeon with any combination of classes in the game. So far, after a year of playing the game this has remained true (with the possible exception of highest lvl fractals). Furthermore, what is being considered 'viable' in PvP is constantly changing, with all classes having some degree of usefulness.
However, this doesn't prevent the players themselves from limiting their own groups based on preconceptions, laziness, or convenience. I've played every class in the game currently at max lvl (lvl 80, with exotics); -i know, i have a lot of alts. Out of my many characters, most of them I've been told were useless / unplayable / crap at varying times during my play. I still remember playing necromancer at launch, being told how useless they were, even as I was walking around soloing crap most other players were struggling with. However, I've completed every dungeon in the game countless times. I've done more 'unplayable' class combinations than I can remember, just for fun. I've completed dungeons w/ 5 thief groups, 5 necro, 5 engi, 5 mesmers, etc. etc.
And really, what it comes down to is this: This game treats classes like a toolbox. You're given a bunch of tools to choose from, and it's up to you to choose which tools work best for which fight / dungeon. If you coordinate with your teammates, make sure that each person is equipping skills that will help the team as a whole, you will have little trouble clearing most dungeons in the game (just remember to dodge / stay out of AoE). If not, the combat will seem highly chaotic, uncontrolled, and unbeatable.
It's all in your playstyle, and whether or not you make the effort to play with others that have similar mindsets. it helps to view combat in this game less like a trinity (do we have dps, tanks, or heal/support?) and more like a combination of abilities. 'Okay, so the enemy mobs will be using these attacks, and have a lot of ranged damage. Maybe we should use skills that reflect ranged attacks / blind the enemy to minimize how much damage we take'.
I have been playing for over 15 years MMOs, most of the time as healer. Playing a game without the trinity system is extremely weird for me, despite the game being so good (exploration, social events, constant updates...)
But my worry is: what about endgame and dungeons? no trinity means no pre-defined roles, so how are 5 DPS going to finish dungeons?
Please elaborate your answer, would like to know your thoughts and expand my knowledge on this matter
Anet touted that you could complete any dungeon with any combination of classes in the game. So far, after a year of playing the game this has remained true (with the possible exception of highest lvl fractals). Furthermore, what is being considered 'viable' in PvP is constantly changing, with all classes having some degree of usefulness.
However, this doesn't prevent the players themselves from limiting their own groups based on preconceptions, laziness, or convenience. I've played every class in the game currently at max lvl (lvl 80, with exotics); -i know, i have a lot of alts. Out of my many characters, most of them I've been told were useless / unplayable / crap at varying times during my play. I still remember playing necromancer at launch, being told how useless they were, even as I was walking around soloing crap most other players were struggling with. However, I've completed every dungeon in the game countless times. I've done more 'unplayable' class combinations than I can remember, just for fun. I've completed dungeons w/ 5 thief groups, 5 necro, 5 engi, 5 mesmers, etc. etc.
And really, what it comes down to is this: This game treats classes like a toolbox. You're given a bunch of tools to choose from, and it's up to you to choose which tools work best for which fight / dungeon. If you coordinate with your teammates, make sure that each person is equipping skills that will help the team as a whole, you will have little trouble clearing most dungeons in the game (just remember to dodge / stay out of AoE). If not, the combat will seem highly chaotic, uncontrolled, and unbeatable.
It's all in your playstyle, and whether or not you make the effort to play with others that have similar mindsets. it helps to view combat in this game less like a trinity (do we have dps, tanks, or heal/support?) and more like a combination of abilities. 'Okay, so the enemy mobs will be using these attacks, and have a lot of ranged damage. Maybe we should use skills that reflect ranged attacks / blind the enemy to minimize how much damage we take'.
Hope that helps.
You said it WAY better than me. I agree totally with the toolbox analogy!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
We always have a support class when we do dungeons, Just today I tried out my healing guardian and it's went very well. The whole dungeon without any wipes no one even got downed. This way is sooooo much better then running like an idiot and standing around waiting for some glascannon that got one shot by a mob to respawn and then repair himself and start running again just to die all over again.
But yeah sure with a bit of luck and alot of skill you can do dungeons with just zerker build but this is the point of no trinity. No standing around waiting in que to join because you're dps build and nobody wants to be a tank or healer.
In GW2 everyone can play, build your char anyway you want and your still welcome everywere except the LFG zerkers only speed runs.
I also play alot of spvp and you don't see many zerkers there, why? cause they die in 5 seconds. In WvW alot of players want toughness and vitality to incress there survival chances.
I would love to meet 5 glasscannons in spvp round against my team they wouldn't reach a 100 points.
And in PVE sure zerkers are very good while doing hearts and other stuff but you still need support when the harder stuff comes along otherwise this is where I feel that Zerkers are at there peak.
People generally do that which is easiest and most effective...........
Yeah, the problem is how you can make a MMO not so zerg centric and it is not that easy. In FPS games you tend to die easy and hand-grenades tend to stop people from zerging but adding something similar in fantasy that is balanced is very hard indeed.
You could use some kind of serious buff for people in a perfect battle-formation (like a shieldwall) which would be easier for smaller groups and be bad for general zerging around but that tend to be very complicated and might take the fun out of things...
Raising the damage of siege weapons would be a good start though, it would at least force attackers to spread out more.
Any massive PvP tends to get zergy and discussing ideas on how to fix that would be a rather interesting thread.
We always have a support class when we do dungeons, Just today I tried out my healing guardian and it's went very well. The whole dungeon without any wipes no one even got downed. This way is sooooo much better then running like an idiot and standing around waiting for some glascannon that got one shot by a mob to respawn and then repair himself and start running again just to die all over again.
But yeah sure with a bit of luck and alot of skill you can do dungeons with just zerker build but this is the point of no trinity. No standing around waiting in que to join because you're dps build and nobody wants to be a tank or healer.
In GW2 everyone can play, build your char anyway you want and your still welcome everywere except the LFG zerkers only speed runs.
I also play alot of spvp and you don't see many zerkers there, why? cause they die in 5 seconds. In WvW alot of players want toughness and vitality to incress there survival chances.
I would love to meet 5 glasscannons in spvp round against my team they wouldn't reach a 100 points.
And in PVE sure zerkers are very good while doing hearts and other stuff but you still need support when the harder stuff comes along otherwise this is where I feel that Zerkers are at there peak.
Glass canons are indeed very hard to play in PvP and frankly not easy in harder PvE either. However is my thief very squishy and I can take most others whenever it gets one on one anyways, it is all about not getting hit. Since a single mistake will bring a team down you see few people who build teams around that but I wouldn't underestimate a 5 thief team anyways.
Comments
You just didn't see much.
Generally you see 5 players stacked in a corner wiping a boss before he can one shot anything (which is the problem with many dungeons). And the few dungeons/fractals where stacking doesn't work, you see people complaining about it and refusing to take more supportive builds instead of the zerker builds that are so efficient with corner stacking.
The first part of your post is the same type of extremely hyperbolic statement you are complaining about in the second part.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
well there you can be a healer, a buffer or a tank. But all of these roles are banished cause of the speed runs .. If they added fights where for a period of time you have to survive or lure a boss to an area where you will be able to hit etc, it will be interesting, there are such bosses encounters but players avoid them cause they want speed runs ... thats the reason i avoid dungeons .
at least in WvW there are roles ... but for a good heal the whole team have to co-op, the one who will apply the field, the others who will blast it, everyone who has to be in the area and NOT apply other field ...
Completely hate this games combat/anti trinity system and community. I'm playing it right now because I thought the trait changes would make a healing ele nice. So while healing ele works a little tiny bit based on my AC runs, it's not optimal.
It just isn't.
I realized after doing it a few runs I was doing more harm than good by not providing my group with pure DPS like everyone else. It's so much faster to go DPS and zerg the content down.
Is it fun? Hell no, I am sad that my support ele is useless in PvE.
People write in LFG zerker only, power only, no necros, exp only, speed run only - and so on. People also mostly want warrs/guards. I ended up giving in and joining the zerker meta and sure enough it's super fast and efficient. It's just a sad reality of this game. Zerg and zerg, grind and grind. People on anets official forums beg in thread after thread to change the meta and anet just doesn't care and abandoned their own balance based threads discussing how crazy thief is in pvp, or how groups still only want all dps all zerker or how warrs are STILL the favored class. It really seems anet would rather pump out more cash shop crap and poorly written story. Many of their own players dislike the story. Not all, but a good majority. It's really the weaker aspect of the game..I'd rather see balance changes and the viablity of other roles AND classes.
Just going to reinstall ESO atm because I can at least play a non mongo role in it.
GW2 PvE in a nutshell. Screenshot taken right this moment lol.
They have to rework how fight works not nerf gear or professions. Change fights in a way that they can't be skipped or nuked by 200db warriors in seconds..
It's honestly a bit surprising that they haven't done more to tone down the zerk meta that has been (with very few exceptions) the name of the game since 2012. Not that it is honestly that much different than other popular MMOs these days - dungeons in modern trinity-based games are mostly just AoE-spam-speed-runs. People have no time for drawn out dungeons that requires strategy and communication any longer.
Worthless crafting?
Crating is the most practical way of getting ascended weapons and armor.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Support is there.
A zerk guardian/mesmer that know when to put his reflections and buff when boss is about to shot is more valuable than a guard siting on healing gear spaming staff1
A zerk warrior who brings banners and might/fury buff and trait Empower Allies(+150 power for party) bring more support than a warior sitting on defensive gear using healing shouts.
A ranger who traits spotter(+150 precision to party) and bring traited frost spirit (+10% damage bonus) is more supportive than a ranger siting afar with long bow
A elementalist who focus on full damage to melt boss(lles time on boss less damage on party members) is more supportive than a healing traited ele.
Exemples go on..
The support system on Gw2 is different, is more active. requires awareness of the environment and game mechanics. Thats why experinced ppl waltz thought the dungeons while inexperienced players, wanting to play trinity, complaing.
Seek the forums for detailed information on how things work.
see ya o/
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
The result is that dungeons are genuine crap. All classes (and builds) are so soft against dungeon mobs that all classes can be considered glass cannons. The game starts having dungeons from lvl 30, 35 and so on, but go and try to do a dungeon at that level and the game will faceroll you.
In fact you won't be able to even get a group at this lvl cause all groups want fully maxed characters (ie lvl 80) to do that lvl30-35 dungeons... At first i thought it was gamers' elitism and convenience of the easy way, but once i maxed my char and joined these groups i realized how wrong i was, and how deeply flawed is GW2 when it comes to dungeons (it is on other things too like WvW, but i ll stay on topic).
So what exactly happens when you join a dungeon? You get one shotted, two shotted max. Somebody resses you, then you go res other people... That's all the "fun". Whoever isn't dead or ressing someone, does some damage, and the whole group just hopes you will finally kill whatever you re fighting, and proceed to the next fight, which will be pretty much the same thing. The game even has a set of runes that are totally focused on ressing (mercy).
What other approach do you have, for when the death ratio is bigger / faster than the res ratio, what you do at that point? Well the only thing you can do there is... hacking! Yes, i am absolutely serious. At first time in such an encounter, i found out we could only do it if we abused the mob's LoS and AI altogether. We were hiding behind a corner and attack the mob on the other side on the corner, while it was busy to do his over-9k damage attack, and then it would run for us, so we swapped onto the other side of the corner to do the same. That's how we beat it. Later on, on the same dungeons, we were attacking mobs through a wall...
Both these techniques (corner, walls) i found out all by myself, so after we "finished" (we didn't finish, we quit at some point) that dungeon, i was wondering what was supposed to be the "official" way of doing the whole thing, without abusing LoS and mob's UI, without the attacks through wall... and guess what? I checked youtube and everyone was doing the same...
You haven't explored many builds, have you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oueBpmhAU-o&list=PLsfTAd-qhsRz3uqeMCPYaXs87f6DyvPIT
Or look, people soloing dungeon bosses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGr6z4Fb218
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Gw2 has different kind of combat. Sure nowadays the meta is to stack in whatever corner and dps the fuck out of the mobs but this doesn't work in high level fractals. And that is where Gw2's combat really shines. Combo fields, blasters and all kind of finishers really change out the game. The guardian can boost the group's survivability by so much its insane. Having ele to constantly drop water fields and blasting them is a HUGE plus for it.
Long story short, don't listen to the haters, they've played Gw2 for a month and are unable to do squat on their own. Gw2's combat is deep and requires, wait for the magic word, skill and reflexes!
Idk other way to explain it would be, hmm - Gw2 does have some soft trinity but it doesn't come from the profession. The gear and trait build gives you the ultimate dps, the ultimate tank, a hybrid, a group healer. With the new trait system its easier to swap those on the go. When I solo arah p2 I run the whole thing as defensive warrior and at the last boss I re-trait myself completely so that I'm able to do sick damages, swapping skills and items to please the trait synergies. It's kinda fascinating really. And I really don't understand how people claim that Gw2 has easy/boring combat. You guys haven't gone melee against Lupi if you claim that. Or have never faced Liadri in the Crown's Pavilion.
Heh I remember Ascalonian Catacombs was almost impossible at launch xD . I'm still not sure if its because I had shitty gear then or I wasn't as good as I am now or a mix of both but sheesh, We wiped so many times there, I was running naked at some point
The spider was rather easy but maaan that Kholer surely was a douchebag. I have some golden moments in Gw2's launch, like running from Divinity's Reach to ascalonian catacombs because I had no clue there are asura gates xD passing high level zones as lvl 35, that is the shiz !
lol, Liadri would probably give these people a seizure. Thats IF they managed to even get to her (which, with their level of skill, is very unlikely)
I like how you talk about those who prefer to afk while spamming ineffecient taunts and heals, where in fact in the vast majority of MMOs, it is the DPS players who afk while they spam their buttons like crazy.
Basically the people who like the way guild wars 2 works are the people who play dps in other MMOs. Of course, they don't care if they removed the healing and tanking role cause they play DPS.
GW2 didn't remove roles. They just eliminated all roles except DPS.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Nah you're wrong there. The only one actually doing the work in a trinity-based game is the tank. Yeah yeah you'll say they have army of healers behind their backs but most of those games are balanced in a way that a healer can't keep you 100% hp 100% of the time. Every now and then the tank has to do some managing. The other 2 roles are basically afking.
Btw there is healing and tanking in Gw2. You should really check out some guardian/elementalist builds before giving your uneducated poor view of the game.
P.S: I've always played a tank in MMOs btw, lineage 2 aion tera rift wow and countless others korean grinders. I'm pretty fine in Gw2. #kkthxbye
I play warrtank in www, 3500 toughness 2500ish power, 63 crit and 180 ish crit damage. Can survive ton and deals nice damage. Its a blast
For everyone wo wants to get personal ;P
So yeah, my role is a tank, imagine that
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJQQJARSnUJSdHWGC+dAdIG4HQQHsVOTBUnudXA-TVCBwA8U/R4+DaVS1V5CinAwCTQAuEAp0FMRJYAAEAu5Nv5NvZyAwMGA-w
I also have a debuffer necro, cleasner/CC ele, buffer/heal guardian.
Look at all those roles! In a game that supposedly has no roles rofl
GW2's lack of trinity failed their original vision and PVE is more or less all dps now. The most efficient PvE is all about damage builds where players manually dodge what little damage there is. If you can't do GW2 PvE in full zerker then you shouldn't bother talking about it because you are bad.
Structured PvP is an entirely different beast. There is a lot more build variety in PvP, but due to ANet's love for capture points high end structured PvP is more about damage mitigation, CC and outnumbering your opponents than anything else. This makes for entirely unsatisfying matches where you knock your enemy around for several minutes until you outnumber them and eventually kill everyone off only to reappear on a different part of the map.
WvW is still the zerg it always was. Number rule. AoE this, rez that.. it's just as bad now as ever... or great if you like that.
But this "control/support/damage" stuff is pure BS. PvE is 100% damage or fail, structured PvP is control or fail, and WvW is all about numbers.
Thats what all the zerglings say.
People generally do that which is easiest and most effective...........
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
The system is challenging in dungeons. I like that, others may not. OP, the system works if you have a group that are committed to entering a dungeon and thinking ahead, somewhat like Vanilla WoW or EQ.
Recently people have spilled out of other games like MoP or Rift looking for something new, and expect the dungeons to be as simple, they want instant gratification and it doesn't happen. When it doesn't happen they give up and say it doesn't work.
IMHO this system should have been in place before the trinity. /shrug
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Anet touted that you could complete any dungeon with any combination of classes in the game. So far, after a year of playing the game this has remained true (with the possible exception of highest lvl fractals). Furthermore, what is being considered 'viable' in PvP is constantly changing, with all classes having some degree of usefulness.
However, this doesn't prevent the players themselves from limiting their own groups based on preconceptions, laziness, or convenience. I've played every class in the game currently at max lvl (lvl 80, with exotics); -i know, i have a lot of alts. Out of my many characters, most of them I've been told were useless / unplayable / crap at varying times during my play. I still remember playing necromancer at launch, being told how useless they were, even as I was walking around soloing crap most other players were struggling with. However, I've completed every dungeon in the game countless times. I've done more 'unplayable' class combinations than I can remember, just for fun. I've completed dungeons w/ 5 thief groups, 5 necro, 5 engi, 5 mesmers, etc. etc.
And really, what it comes down to is this: This game treats classes like a toolbox. You're given a bunch of tools to choose from, and it's up to you to choose which tools work best for which fight / dungeon. If you coordinate with your teammates, make sure that each person is equipping skills that will help the team as a whole, you will have little trouble clearing most dungeons in the game (just remember to dodge / stay out of AoE). If not, the combat will seem highly chaotic, uncontrolled, and unbeatable.
It's all in your playstyle, and whether or not you make the effort to play with others that have similar mindsets. it helps to view combat in this game less like a trinity (do we have dps, tanks, or heal/support?) and more like a combination of abilities. 'Okay, so the enemy mobs will be using these attacks, and have a lot of ranged damage. Maybe we should use skills that reflect ranged attacks / blind the enemy to minimize how much damage we take'.
Hope that helps.
You said it WAY better than me. I agree totally with the toolbox analogy!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
We always have a support class when we do dungeons, Just today I tried out my healing guardian and it's went very well. The whole dungeon without any wipes no one even got downed. This way is sooooo much better then running like an idiot and standing around waiting for some glascannon that got one shot by a mob to respawn and then repair himself and start running again just to die all over again.
But yeah sure with a bit of luck and alot of skill you can do dungeons with just zerker build but this is the point of no trinity. No standing around waiting in que to join because you're dps build and nobody wants to be a tank or healer.
In GW2 everyone can play, build your char anyway you want and your still welcome everywere except the LFG zerkers only speed runs.
I also play alot of spvp and you don't see many zerkers there, why? cause they die in 5 seconds. In WvW alot of players want toughness and vitality to incress there survival chances.
I would love to meet 5 glasscannons in spvp round against my team they wouldn't reach a 100 points.
And in PVE sure zerkers are very good while doing hearts and other stuff but you still need support when the harder stuff comes along otherwise this is where I feel that Zerkers are at there peak.
Yeah, the problem is how you can make a MMO not so zerg centric and it is not that easy. In FPS games you tend to die easy and hand-grenades tend to stop people from zerging but adding something similar in fantasy that is balanced is very hard indeed.
You could use some kind of serious buff for people in a perfect battle-formation (like a shieldwall) which would be easier for smaller groups and be bad for general zerging around but that tend to be very complicated and might take the fun out of things...
Raising the damage of siege weapons would be a good start though, it would at least force attackers to spread out more.
Any massive PvP tends to get zergy and discussing ideas on how to fix that would be a rather interesting thread.
Glass canons are indeed very hard to play in PvP and frankly not easy in harder PvE either. However is my thief very squishy and I can take most others whenever it gets one on one anyways, it is all about not getting hit. Since a single mistake will bring a team down you see few people who build teams around that but I wouldn't underestimate a 5 thief team anyways.