Ok, I would like to start off by saying that there are different strokes for different folks and not everyone is going to like Wildstar.
With that being said, in my opinion where Wildstar really takes off is lvl 20 when you get to your first dungeon. All I can say is the dungeons are way challenging and fun, this is coming from a long time WoW player that raided pre WotLK (which in my opinion is the x-pack where there started trivializing dungeons and raids). Making it to level 12 and then saying this game isn't fun is like playing WoW back in vanilla and quitting before you got of Elwynn Forrest. The telegraphing system gets insane once you get into dungeons.
Secondly, yes it has some similar feel to WoW that's because it's an MMORPG... All MMOs feel somewhat similar because they are. You get quests, kill things, collect things, rinse repeat until you get far enough to start PvPing and doing dungeons then more stuff opens up. Also, 17 of the developers of Wildstar were on the original vanilla development team, so yeah there will be some influence. Most games within the same genre feel very similar to each other. For example Half Life feels a lot like Doom in which case you could say they are both Duke Nukem "clones" or that WoW was basically an EQ "clone", which was basically a DnD "clone", etc.
The last point I would like to make is that as far as MMOs go, Wildstar offers everything that you could ask for out of an MMO, 20 and 40 man raiding, challenging and fun dungeons, PvP, a pretty cool crafting system, player housing, etc. So while you don't have to like it or play it I would at least give it a fair chance, which is not judging the entire game based off of 2 hours of playtime.
Ok, I would like to start off by saying that there are different strokes for different folks and not everyone is going to like Wildstar.
With that being said, in my opinion where Wildstar really takes off is lvl 20 when you get to your first dungeon. All I can say is the dungeons are way challenging and fun, this is coming from a long time WoW player that raided pre WotLK (which in my opinion is the x-pack where there started trivializing dungeons and raids). Making it to level 12 and then saying this game isn't fun is like playing WoW back in vanilla and quitting before you got of Elwynn Forrest. The telegraphing system gets insane once you get into dungeons.
Secondly, yes it has some similar feel to WoW that's because it's an MMORPG... All MMOs feel somewhat similar because they are. You get quests, kill things, collect things, rinse repeat until you get far enough to start PvPing and doing dungeons then more stuff opens up. Also, 17 of the developers of Wildstar were on the original vanilla development team, so yeah there will be some influence. Most games within the same genre feel very similar to each other. For example Half Life feels a lot like Doom in which case you could say they are both Duke Nukem "clones" or that WoW was basically an EQ "clone", which was basically a DnD "clone", etc.
The last point I would like to make is that as far as MMOs go, Wildstar offers everything that you could ask for out of an MMO, 20 and 40 man raiding, challenging and fun dungeons, PvP, a pretty cool crafting system, player housing, etc. So while you don't have to like it or play it I would at least give it a fair chance, which is not judging the entire game based off of 2 hours of playtime.
I respect your opinion, but this isn't everyone's idea of what an MMO should be, nor how it should be designed. I for an example can't stand dungeon runs, one and done is the extent you'll see of me in them. Housing really offers nothing I care about, I also don't want to play through 20-30 levels before a game offers something interesting. The PVP seems like it has problems right now, and raiding is the last thing I want to spend time doing. WHat does that leave for a player like myself? You said it offers everything one could ask for.
To me giving a game a fair shot is taking the time to play it and judge it for yourself. I did and didn't like much of anything about what I saw.
Anyway I say it's best if you do or don't like a game to keep those opinions to a personal perspective, how you feel about it, saying things like what's in red above is something else entirely.
My biggest beef with the game and what I played of it was the presentation, everything about it's presentation screamed arcade game to me, I felt like I was in a carnival, or playing something along the lines of Kingdom Hearts. Not my idea of something I can get immersed in or feel a connection to. Which is a must when it comes to MMORPG's to me.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ok, I would like to start off by saying that there are different strokes for different folks and not everyone is going to like Wildstar.
With that being said, in my opinion where Wildstar really takes off is lvl 20 when you get to your first dungeon. All I can say is the dungeons are way challenging and fun, this is coming from a long time WoW player that raided pre WotLK (which in my opinion is the x-pack where there started trivializing dungeons and raids). Making it to level 12 and then saying this game isn't fun is like playing WoW back in vanilla and quitting before you got of Elwynn Forrest. The telegraphing system gets insane once you get into dungeons.
Secondly, yes it has some similar feel to WoW that's because it's an MMORPG... All MMOs feel somewhat similar because they are. You get quests, kill things, collect things, rinse repeat until you get far enough to start PvPing and doing dungeons then more stuff opens up. Also, 17 of the developers of Wildstar were on the original vanilla development team, so yeah there will be some influence. Most games within the same genre feel very similar to each other. For example Half Life feels a lot like Doom in which case you could say they are both Duke Nukem "clones" or that WoW was basically an EQ "clone", which was basically a DnD "clone", etc.
The last point I would like to make is that as far as MMOs go, Wildstar offers everything that you could ask for out of an MMO, 20 and 40 man raiding, challenging and fun dungeons, PvP, a pretty cool crafting system, player housing, etc. So while you don't have to like it or play it I would at least give it a fair chance, which is not judging the entire game based off of 2 hours of playtime.
All the unhighlighted stuff is your opinion and fair, but the highlighted text simply is not true. EVE, Wushu, DF:UW, ect.. are nothing like WoW. Even GW2 and ESO can be played much different than WoW. Try some new games my friend.
I have played almost every MMO that has been released since EQ (not EVE as spaceships are really not my thing). In my opinion GW2 and ESO were two of the biggest letdowns in the history of MMOs. Yes they were both fairly different than most MMOs in the fact that neither of them offered any solid end game experience. I will give you that both games looked pretty and had a solid leveling experience but they both played like single player RPGs (add SWToR in there too).
It sounds like you are more into story and lore than the massive multiplayer experience, which is cool, but all I am saying is judging an entire game based off 2 - 3 hours of play time when the focus is end game is kind of an unfair assessment.
With that said, good luck in finding something you enjoy. There are a few promising titles being released over the next year or two so maybe one of them will do it for you. Good luck man.
I have played almost every MMO that has been released since EQ (not EVE as spaceships are really not my thing). In my opinion GW2 and ESO were two of the biggest letdowns in the history of MMOs. Yes they were both fairly different than most MMOs in the fact that neither of them offered any solid end game experience. I will give you that both games looked pretty and had a solid leveling experience but they both played like single player RPGs (add SWToR in there too).
It sounds like you are more into story and lore than the massive multiplayer experience, which is cool, but all I am saying is judging an entire game based off 2 - 3 hours of play time when the focus is end game is kind of an unfair assessment.
With that said, good luck in finding something you enjoy. There are a few promising titles being released over the next year or two so maybe one of them will do it for you. Good luck man.
You must be the pve only type. For the few weeks that I played gw2 I was always in a group in RvR. For the almost 3 months I've played ESO I've spent atleast half my time in a group of atleast 20 in Cyrodiil AvA.
All I'm saying is there are quite a few option out there that provide something besides the quest centric structure you believe makes a mmorpg.
Originally posted by Bladestrom ^^ wow they threw away the sentimental factor by throwing away the old world in Cata, they ruined the levelling xp by fast tracking levelling, they ruined by with scaling (dot someone for 1k when they gave 809khp and chip healing). They ruined 5 mans by merging to a point where skills were meaningless. They ruined raids by merging everything appart from heroic, they ruined the value of gear by offering upgrades so fast that any achievment was almost immediately nullified, they ruined past achievments by not scaling up old content so people simply 1 man farmed anything they wanted. They ruined rep achievments by giving rewards that were out of date almost immediately And finally they ruined the social aspect by creating an environment where guilds and social interaction was not required.
Originally posted by Bladestrom ^^ wow they threw away the sentimental factor by throwing away the old world in Cata, they ruined the levelling xp by fast tracking levelling, they ruined by with scaling (dot someone for 1k when they gave 809khp and chip healing). They ruined 5 mans by merging to a point where skills were meaningless. They ruined raids by merging everything appart from heroic, they ruined the value of gear by offering upgrades so fast that any achievment was almost immediately nullified, they ruined past achievments by not scaling up old content so people simply 1 man farmed anything they wanted. They ruined rep achievments by giving rewards that were out of date almost immediately And finally they ruined the social aspect by creating an environment where guilds and social interaction was not required.
I have played almost every MMO that has been released since EQ (not EVE as spaceships are really not my thing). In my opinion GW2 and ESO were two of the biggest letdowns in the history of MMOs. Yes they were both fairly different than most MMOs in the fact that neither of them offered any solid end game experience. I will give you that both games looked pretty and had a solid leveling experience but they both played like single player RPGs (add SWToR in there too).
It sounds like you are more into story and lore than the massive multiplayer experience, which is cool, but all I am saying is judging an entire game based off 2 - 3 hours of play time when the focus is end game is kind of an unfair assessment.
With that said, good luck in finding something you enjoy. There are a few promising titles being released over the next year or two so maybe one of them will do it for you. Good luck man.
That's odd that you say you've pretty much played them all, but then go on to say what's in red. Dungeons and Raids are not the only type of MMO features, not by a long shot. They're not even truly massive by design. That sounds as though you've only really played MMOs like WOW.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You must be the pve only type. For the few weeks that I played gw2 I was always in a group in RvR. For the almost 3 months I've played ESO I've spent atleast half my time in a group of atleast 20 in Cyrodiil AvA.
I do both PvE and PvP but I would not play a game strictly for PvP, PvP is something that I do when there is PvE downtime. So if any of those games have awesome PvP and no PvE, you are right I still wouldn't be interested.
As far as GW2 goes I had over 10 friends playing open beta and release with me after 2 months not a single one still played. That may not be an accurate indicator of how well the game actually did but I do know that when I logged on after a 3 month break (which was only 4 months after release) my server was a ghost town.
I am still actually subbed to ESO but I haven't logged on since Wildstar pre-launch. I have been playing the elder scrolls franchise since morrowind for x-box and I was extremely let down with the game. I think they didn't commit themselves to either be an MMO or an RPG so they ended up with some bastardized hybrid. A completely open talent system doesn't work so well when you need tanks/healers for dungeons because what you end up with is tanks that can't hold threat and/or stay alive and healers that are so hybrid that they can't dps and they can't heal.
That's odd that you say you've pretty much played them all, but then go on to say what's in red. Dungeons and Raids are not the only type of MMO features, not by a long shot. They're not even truly massive by design. That sounds as though you've only really played MMOs like WOW.
I didn't say they were the "only" type of features, not sure where you got that from. Most MMOs pre SWToR required some type of cooperative play in order to progress through the game. EQ use to have world bosses that required like 100 people to kill, WoW use to have 40 man raids, shadowbane had guild wars that required 50 + people to be there on each side in order to take or defend the fortress, heck even in GW2 WvWvW required cooperative play on a fairly large scale.
I'll try Wildstar again if they speed up the leveling process. I can live with typical themepark MMO quest hubs. I bought the game knowing full well what I was getting in that regard. What kills it for me is the tedious grind. I was only able to play Wildstar for a couple hours before I was completely bored while not feeling like I made any progress. I made it to lvl 25 and it was like trying to commit suicide by smoking cigarettes. The xp gains feel incredibly slow, even with the various xp buffs available. The xp gains from instanced content is so pitiful that so there's literally no point in doing them until max level. The only viable way to level is through quests and if I wanted to pay $15 a month to endlessly grind quests, I'd go play ESO.
It feels like Carbine designed the entire game around all those kids crying about how vanilla WoW was so great when half of them weren't even around for it and the other half are looking at the nostalgia with rose colored glasses. I was around for vanilla WoW and it sucked. The only reason it seemed so great is because everything that came before it sucked even more. While I can agree that WoW has since gone in a direction that isn't entirely favorable, I can't say that vanilla was the pinnacle of what MMORPG's should be in 2014. It was great at the time when it was following the likes of EverQuest but Wildstar is following the likes of Guild Wars 2. We need viable alternative paths for leveling besides quest, quest, quest, and quest some more.
The only viable way to level is through quests and if I wanted to pay $15 a month to endlessly grind quests, I'd go play ESO.
This line made me lol.
I did actually play WoW vanilla and I can honestly say I liked it. I don't find the wildstar grind nearly as tedious as vanilla wow leveling but that's just me. Although, I also played MMOs prior to WoW where you actually lost XP for dying, so...
Carbine is on schedule for their first major content update just a month after launch. It is adding 2 huge regions and a bunch of content. ESO has been out 3 months and isn't keeping to the content update schedule Matt Firor advertised. I remember him saying in interviews that they chose their sub model because they were offering a premium service and that they would have content updates rolling out. So far it's looking pretty anemic.
Wildstar may not appeal to some, but at least Carbine seems to be working for that subscription. It looks like they have a plan and are carrying it out. ESO, not so much other than bug fixes - not what I would want to spend my monthly $15 on.
ESO has a lot of problems.... That will put a hold on any content schedule. Not sure why you even made the comparison.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Carbine is on schedule for their first major content update just a month after launch. It is adding 2 huge regions and a bunch of content. ESO has been out 3 months and isn't keeping to the content update schedule Matt Firor advertised. I remember him saying in interviews that they chose their sub model because they were offering a premium service and that they would have content updates rolling out. So far it's looking pretty anemic.
Wildstar may not appeal to some, but at least Carbine seems to be working for that subscription. It looks like they have a plan and are carrying it out. ESO, not so much other than bug fixes - not what I would want to spend my monthly $15 on.
ESO has a lot of problems.... That will put a hold on any content schedule. Not sure why you even made the comparison.
Two games launched at roughly the same time. Sounds like a good reason to make a comparison to me.
If you need more of a reason ask Bcbully. He'll make comparisons all day for you.
ESO has a lot of problems.... That will put a hold on any content schedule. Not sure why you even made the comparison.
How just how?? I mean with the name of a very awesome and successful franchise and a ton of cash for development, just how?? I wanted ESO to be awesome, I really did.
I'll try Wildstar again if they speed up the leveling process. I can live with typical themepark MMO quest hubs. I bought the game knowing full well what I was getting in that regard. What kills it for me is the tedious grind. I was only able to play Wildstar for a couple hours before I was completely bored while not feeling like I made any progress. I made it to lvl 25 and it was like trying to commit suicide by smoking cigarettes. The xp gains feel incredibly slow, even with the various xp buffs available. The xp gains from instanced content is so pitiful that so there's literally no point in doing them until max level. The only viable way to level is through quests and if I wanted to pay $15 a month to endlessly grind quests, I'd go play ESO.
It feels like Carbine designed the entire game around all those kids crying about how vanilla WoW was so great when half of them weren't even around for it and the other half are looking at the nostalgia with rose colored glasses. I was around for vanilla WoW and it sucked. The only reason it seemed so great is because everything that came before it sucked even more. While I can agree that WoW has since gone in a direction that isn't entirely favorable, I can't say that vanilla was the pinnacle of what MMORPG's should be in 2014. It was great at the time when it was following the likes of EverQuest but Wildstar is following the likes of Guild Wars 2. We need viable alternative paths for leveling besides quest, quest, quest, and quest some more.
Modern players aren't crying for the position Wildstar took with a more more traditional levelling curve, Adults and the Carbine devs did - and well done to them imo. If you find yourself watching the XP bar its going to be brutal for you Agree about Vanilla, it was TBC for me, although the levelling in Vanilla was pretty damn good (and still is - try a private server)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
That's odd that you say you've pretty much played them all, but then go on to say what's in red. Dungeons and Raids are not the only type of MMO features, not by a long shot. They're not even truly massive by design. That sounds as though you've only really played MMOs like WOW.
I didn't say they were the "only" type of features, not sure where you got that from. Most MMOs pre SWToR required some type of cooperative play in order to progress through the game. EQ use to have world bosses that required like 100 people to kill, WoW use to have 40 man raids, shadowbane had guild wars that required 50 + people to be there on each side in order to take or defend the fortress, heck even in GW2 WvWvW required cooperative play on a fairly large scale.
It was sorta implied, maybe not by choice and just lack of mention, but fair enough.
My idea of MMO features certainly isn't questing, dungeons and raids. So I hope you'd understand why I'd take issue with that type of impression.
WIldstar to me is basically the culmination of approaches I just am not into. Loot before story, quantity over quality, dungeon, raid and itemization focus. For someone more into sandboxes, community and multi-role play, it leaves a lot to be desired. AT least in titles like TOR, ESO, TSW.. etc (those types of themeparks) there's at least a decent RPG story to keep me occupied for a month or two. I didn't feel much connection to that aspect of WS.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Carbine is on schedule for their first major content update just a month after launch. It is adding 2 huge regions and a bunch of content. ESO has been out 3 months and isn't keeping to the content update schedule Matt Firor advertised. I remember him saying in interviews that they chose their sub model because they were offering a premium service and that they would have content updates rolling out. So far it's looking pretty anemic.
Wildstar may not appeal to some, but at least Carbine seems to be working for that subscription. It looks like they have a plan and are carrying it out. ESO, not so much other than bug fixes - not what I would want to spend my monthly $15 on.
ESO has a lot of problems.... That will put a hold on any content schedule. Not sure why you even made the comparison.
Two games launched at roughly the same time. Sounds like a good reason to make a comparison to me.
If you need more of a reason ask Bcbully. He'll make comparisons all day for you.
Yeah and how much flak does he receive for it? WHy doesn't everyone else receive the same?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
As far as "the grind", I personally don't want to play a game where I am max level in 3 days, never ran a dungeon, have no idea how to play my class and then start torturing others.
One of the best parts about vanilla WoW is that once you actually made it to lvl 60 you had a pretty decent idea of how to play your class. You knew how to keep yourself alive and you understood the general mechanics of boss fights. Have you played WoW recently? I mean you can hit 90 in a few days never stepping foot in a dungeon and then get fully LFR geared out without ever having a clue then you step into a PuG and just torture those around you.
I'll try Wildstar again if they speed up the leveling process. I can live with typical themepark MMO quest hubs. I bought the game knowing full well what I was getting in that regard. What kills it for me is the tedious grind. I was only able to play Wildstar for a couple hours before I was completely bored while not feeling like I made any progress. I made it to lvl 25 and it was like trying to commit suicide by smoking cigarettes. The xp gains feel incredibly slow, even with the various xp buffs available. The xp gains from instanced content is so pitiful that so there's literally no point in doing them until max level. The only viable way to level is through quests and if I wanted to pay $15 a month to endlessly grind quests, I'd go play ESO.
It feels like Carbine designed the entire game around all those kids crying about how vanilla WoW was so great when half of them weren't even around for it and the other half are looking at the nostalgia with rose colored glasses. I was around for vanilla WoW and it sucked. The only reason it seemed so great is because everything that came before it sucked even more. While I can agree that WoW has since gone in a direction that isn't entirely favorable, I can't say that vanilla was the pinnacle of what MMORPG's should be in 2014. It was great at the time when it was following the likes of EverQuest but Wildstar is following the likes of Guild Wars 2. We need viable alternative paths for leveling besides quest, quest, quest, and quest some more.
Modern players aren't crying for the position Wildstar took with a more more traditional levelling curve, Adults and the Carbine devs did - and well done to them imo. If you find yourself watching the XP bar its going to be brutal for you Agree about Vanilla, it was TBC for me, although the levelling in Vanilla was pretty damn good (and still is - try a private server)
I don't have a ton of time in the day to allow myself to get fully immersed in the game where I feel like it's ok to just get lost in the endless amount of quests so it is pretty brutal. Its funny because I used to consider myself a hardcore gamer but now I have a life and all I want is to be able to jump into a game for a few hours and feel like I've accomplished something by the time I have to log out. I gained about a quarter of a level in my last session of Wildstar and it's like, "I'm paying $15 a month for this?" Leveling in theme park games is a chore and even action oriented combat doesn't change that. I want to get leveling out of the way as quickly as possible so I can jump into the real content which is at endgame. Carbine making the leveling process this laborious is just artificially extending the lifespan of the game's initial content at launch. Maybe I'm just too old and should back to overly nerfed super casual WoW because I just don't have enough time to devote to Wildstar just to feel like I've made any substantial progress.
Carbine is on schedule for their first major content update just a month after launch. It is adding 2 huge regions and a bunch of content. ESO has been out 3 months and isn't keeping to the content update schedule Matt Firor advertised. I remember him saying in interviews that they chose their sub model because they were offering a premium service and that they would have content updates rolling out. So far it's looking pretty anemic.
Wildstar may not appeal to some, but at least Carbine seems to be working for that subscription. It looks like they have a plan and are carrying it out. ESO, not so much other than bug fixes - not what I would want to spend my monthly $15 on.
ESO has a lot of problems.... That will put a hold on any content schedule. Not sure why you even made the comparison.
I made the comparison because people have been making ESO comparisons throughout the thread. I just saw a thread about a huge ESO update and it contains one dungeon. It got me thinking about marketing promises and what the sub is buying.
I am pretty skeptical where claims about content updates are concerned. Trion made that promise and they sort of kind of kept to it, but really they ended up being a lot of bug fixes with a dungeon or small raid added along with it and then they slowly scaled way down. Carbine seems to be delivering on the content promise with their sub model. ESO is kind of, but not satisfactorily.
Someone may not like the gameplay in Wildstar, but Carbine is delivering on their vision and, so far, their content promise. I'm not a huge fan of the sub, and I don't know how long I'll keep playing, but I can say this is the first sub game I've played where I really feel like they're working for it and delivering.
Well you say you gave it thought, but why wouldn't the highly talked about issues that have been blown up everywhere spring to mind? I know you don't like SUB games, we've had the discussion before, but what do you think people who are committed to that sub are more worried about right now? What do you think is holding folks like myself back from purchasing at present, what am I waiting on? A working game, or more content that suffers because of broken game aspects?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
WIldstar to me is basically the culmination of approaches I just am not into. Loot before story, quantity over quality, dungeon, raid and itemization focus. For someone more into sandboxes, community and multi-role play, it leaves a lot to be desired. AT least in titles like TOR, ESO, TSW.. etc (those types of themeparks) there's at least a decent RPG story to keep me occupied for a month or two. I didn't feel much connection to that aspect of WS.
I can see your point, I do agree that ToR and ESO had awesome story lines.
For me personally I would rather good, regular content releases over less frequent deeper heavy story line based releases since that fits my play style better. I like a game that keeps me wanting to come back because I hate playing for a month or two then not having an urge to log on for another few months.
I almost didn't play Wildstar because I was playing ESO and I am not really a sci-fi/space fan, but I am glad I did because I am loving it.
P.S. - For the record I don't think the wildstar story line is inferior, I just think its lighter and less serious which some may equate to "not as deep". I like getting mocked when I die, I like it saying "nom nom nom" over my head when I eat, I like the western feel slapped over a futuristic space setting.
I'll try Wildstar again if they speed up the leveling process. I can live with typical themepark MMO quest hubs. I bought the game knowing full well what I was getting in that regard. What kills it for me is the tedious grind. I was only able to play Wildstar for a couple hours before I was completely bored while not feeling like I made any progress. I made it to lvl 25 and it was like trying to commit suicide by smoking cigarettes. The xp gains feel incredibly slow, even with the various xp buffs available. The xp gains from instanced content is so pitiful that so there's literally no point in doing them until max level. The only viable way to level is through quests and if I wanted to pay $15 a month to endlessly grind quests, I'd go play ESO.
It feels like Carbine designed the entire game around all those kids crying about how vanilla WoW was so great when half of them weren't even around for it and the other half are looking at the nostalgia with rose colored glasses. I was around for vanilla WoW and it sucked. The only reason it seemed so great is because everything that came before it sucked even more. While I can agree that WoW has since gone in a direction that isn't entirely favorable, I can't say that vanilla was the pinnacle of what MMORPG's should be in 2014. It was great at the time when it was following the likes of EverQuest but Wildstar is following the likes of Guild Wars 2. We need viable alternative paths for leveling besides quest, quest, quest, and quest some more.
Modern players aren't crying for the position Wildstar took with a more more traditional levelling curve, Adults and the Carbine devs did - and well done to them imo. If you find yourself watching the XP bar its going to be brutal for you Agree about Vanilla, it was TBC for me, although the levelling in Vanilla was pretty damn good (and still is - try a private server)
I don't have a ton of time in the day to allow myself to get fully immersed in the game where I feel like it's ok to just get lost in the endless amount of quests so it is pretty brutal. Its funny because I used to consider myself a hardcore gamer but now I have a life and all I want is to be able to jump into a game for a few hours and feel like I've accomplished something by the time I have to log out. I gained about a quarter of a level in my last session of Wildstar and it's like, "I'm paying $15 a month for this?" Leveling in theme park games is a chore and even action oriented combat doesn't change that. I want to get leveling out of the way as quickly as possible so I can jump into the real content which is at endgame. Carbine making the leveling process this laborious is just artificially extending the lifespan of the game's initial content at launch. Maybe I'm just too old and should back to overly nerfed super casual WoW because I just don't have enough time to devote to Wildstar just to feel like I've made any substantial progress.
I think this is wear we all have issues. Some people like leveling (RPG style) and some like end game (MMOs) and most games cant do both really well.
I think WoW has done the best job so far which is why they are wildly successfully.
My self, I haven't played WoW in a few years and don't miss it but I do thing about the great times i had in WoW. Its the same with EQ but most of the great times are based on community or friends that play the game and not the game itself.
That's odd that you say you've pretty much played them all, but then go on to say what's in red. Dungeons and Raids are not the only type of MMO features, not by a long shot. They're not even truly massive by design. That sounds as though you've only really played MMOs like WOW.
I didn't say they were the "only" type of features, not sure where you got that from. Most MMOs pre SWToR required some type of cooperative play in order to progress through the game. EQ use to have world bosses that required like 100 people to kill, WoW use to have 40 man raids, shadowbane had guild wars that required 50 + people to be there on each side in order to take or defend the fortress, heck even in GW2 WvWvW required cooperative play on a fairly large scale.
It was sorta implied, maybe not by choice and just lack of mention, but fair enough.
My idea of MMO features certainly isn't questing, dungeons and raids. So I hope you'd understand why I'd take issue with that type of impression.
WIldstar to me is basically the culmination of approaches I just am not into. Loot before story, quantity over quality, dungeon, raid and itemization focus. For someone more into sandboxes, community and multi-role play, it leaves a lot to be desired. AT least in titles like TOR, ESO, TSW.. etc (those types of themeparks) there's at least a decent RPG story to keep me occupied for a month or two. I didn't feel much connection to that aspect of WS.
You don't like the game design and then equate that to poor implementation. Personal appeal and quality of product aren't the same thing. There are a lot of people that do enjoy that design and I would say this game is implementing those features really well.
For example you make the claim of "quantity over quality", but how are you in a position to even assert that? How can you say it isn't quality? How about it's quantity and quality?
You infer that the community experience is inferior, but I haven't found that to be true for me. How is inferior or "leaves a lot to be desired" and compared to what? I've found the community on Evindra to be really cool.
You say the RPG story is inferior, but based on what? How do you support that claim? I find the RPG experience to be as good as TOR and TSW, but less gritty. I don't get the same experience out of watching Orphan Black and The Adventures of Tin Tin, but I love them both for what they offer. TSW and Wildstar aren't the same kind of story or environment. The early questing in TSW is better than most any mmo I've played, but the mid to late game gear treadmill is not... at all.
So you don't like this style and environment of game play at all, so where do you base your claim that it's inferior? Again, personal appeal and quality aren't the same thing.
WHo the heck said it was inferior? WHo said it was poorly implemented? everything I said was based on my own taste..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think what is holding you back is that this game style doesn't really appeal to you and the problems some players experience are enough of a reason for you to not waste money on something you're not going to play for long anyway.
I don't think people are committed to a sub. I think people become committed to a gaming environment they enjoy and that they feel gives them a good return on the money they spend. I think some players who are having problems are worried about performance. The players that aren't having problems are worried about Carbine delivering on the promise of content updates every 4 - 6 weeks.
If the game still has performance problems on the scale of ESO's bugs and glitches 3 months from now then Carbine will have a huge problem on their hands. If those are resolved in the next two or three patches, then I doubt most gamers will really care.
Looks a lot like argument for arguments sake to me here, for example what else would I mean by "committed to a sub"?
I have no idea how long I'd play, I just know what I experienced in beta, and by most reports many of those issues are still unresolved. I'm a PVPer at heart so if I get with a good guild I could play for years for all I know at this point.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Ok, I would like to start off by saying that there are different strokes for different folks and not everyone is going to like Wildstar.
With that being said, in my opinion where Wildstar really takes off is lvl 20 when you get to your first dungeon. All I can say is the dungeons are way challenging and fun, this is coming from a long time WoW player that raided pre WotLK (which in my opinion is the x-pack where there started trivializing dungeons and raids). Making it to level 12 and then saying this game isn't fun is like playing WoW back in vanilla and quitting before you got of Elwynn Forrest. The telegraphing system gets insane once you get into dungeons.
Secondly, yes it has some similar feel to WoW that's because it's an MMORPG... All MMOs feel somewhat similar because they are. You get quests, kill things, collect things, rinse repeat until you get far enough to start PvPing and doing dungeons then more stuff opens up. Also, 17 of the developers of Wildstar were on the original vanilla development team, so yeah there will be some influence. Most games within the same genre feel very similar to each other. For example Half Life feels a lot like Doom in which case you could say they are both Duke Nukem "clones" or that WoW was basically an EQ "clone", which was basically a DnD "clone", etc.
The last point I would like to make is that as far as MMOs go, Wildstar offers everything that you could ask for out of an MMO, 20 and 40 man raiding, challenging and fun dungeons, PvP, a pretty cool crafting system, player housing, etc. So while you don't have to like it or play it I would at least give it a fair chance, which is not judging the entire game based off of 2 hours of playtime.
I respect your opinion, but this isn't everyone's idea of what an MMO should be, nor how it should be designed. I for an example can't stand dungeon runs, one and done is the extent you'll see of me in them. Housing really offers nothing I care about, I also don't want to play through 20-30 levels before a game offers something interesting. The PVP seems like it has problems right now, and raiding is the last thing I want to spend time doing. WHat does that leave for a player like myself? You said it offers everything one could ask for.
To me giving a game a fair shot is taking the time to play it and judge it for yourself. I did and didn't like much of anything about what I saw.
Anyway I say it's best if you do or don't like a game to keep those opinions to a personal perspective, how you feel about it, saying things like what's in red above is something else entirely.
My biggest beef with the game and what I played of it was the presentation, everything about it's presentation screamed arcade game to me, I felt like I was in a carnival, or playing something along the lines of Kingdom Hearts. Not my idea of something I can get immersed in or feel a connection to. Which is a must when it comes to MMORPG's to me.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All the unhighlighted stuff is your opinion and fair, but the highlighted text simply is not true. EVE, Wushu, DF:UW, ect.. are nothing like WoW. Even GW2 and ESO can be played much different than WoW. Try some new games my friend.
I have played almost every MMO that has been released since EQ (not EVE as spaceships are really not my thing). In my opinion GW2 and ESO were two of the biggest letdowns in the history of MMOs. Yes they were both fairly different than most MMOs in the fact that neither of them offered any solid end game experience. I will give you that both games looked pretty and had a solid leveling experience but they both played like single player RPGs (add SWToR in there too).
It sounds like you are more into story and lore than the massive multiplayer experience, which is cool, but all I am saying is judging an entire game based off 2 - 3 hours of play time when the focus is end game is kind of an unfair assessment.
With that said, good luck in finding something you enjoy. There are a few promising titles being released over the next year or two so maybe one of them will do it for you. Good luck man.
You must be the pve only type. For the few weeks that I played gw2 I was always in a group in RvR. For the almost 3 months I've played ESO I've spent atleast half my time in a group of atleast 20 in Cyrodiil AvA.
All I'm saying is there are quite a few option out there that provide something besides the quest centric structure you believe makes a mmorpg.
Well said ^
agreed.
That's odd that you say you've pretty much played them all, but then go on to say what's in red. Dungeons and Raids are not the only type of MMO features, not by a long shot. They're not even truly massive by design. That sounds as though you've only really played MMOs like WOW.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I do both PvE and PvP but I would not play a game strictly for PvP, PvP is something that I do when there is PvE downtime. So if any of those games have awesome PvP and no PvE, you are right I still wouldn't be interested.
As far as GW2 goes I had over 10 friends playing open beta and release with me after 2 months not a single one still played. That may not be an accurate indicator of how well the game actually did but I do know that when I logged on after a 3 month break (which was only 4 months after release) my server was a ghost town.
I am still actually subbed to ESO but I haven't logged on since Wildstar pre-launch. I have been playing the elder scrolls franchise since morrowind for x-box and I was extremely let down with the game. I think they didn't commit themselves to either be an MMO or an RPG so they ended up with some bastardized hybrid. A completely open talent system doesn't work so well when you need tanks/healers for dungeons because what you end up with is tanks that can't hold threat and/or stay alive and healers that are so hybrid that they can't dps and they can't heal.
Like I said to each is own though.
I didn't say they were the "only" type of features, not sure where you got that from. Most MMOs pre SWToR required some type of cooperative play in order to progress through the game. EQ use to have world bosses that required like 100 people to kill, WoW use to have 40 man raids, shadowbane had guild wars that required 50 + people to be there on each side in order to take or defend the fortress, heck even in GW2 WvWvW required cooperative play on a fairly large scale.
I'll try Wildstar again if they speed up the leveling process. I can live with typical themepark MMO quest hubs. I bought the game knowing full well what I was getting in that regard. What kills it for me is the tedious grind. I was only able to play Wildstar for a couple hours before I was completely bored while not feeling like I made any progress. I made it to lvl 25 and it was like trying to commit suicide by smoking cigarettes. The xp gains feel incredibly slow, even with the various xp buffs available. The xp gains from instanced content is so pitiful that so there's literally no point in doing them until max level. The only viable way to level is through quests and if I wanted to pay $15 a month to endlessly grind quests, I'd go play ESO.
It feels like Carbine designed the entire game around all those kids crying about how vanilla WoW was so great when half of them weren't even around for it and the other half are looking at the nostalgia with rose colored glasses. I was around for vanilla WoW and it sucked. The only reason it seemed so great is because everything that came before it sucked even more. While I can agree that WoW has since gone in a direction that isn't entirely favorable, I can't say that vanilla was the pinnacle of what MMORPG's should be in 2014. It was great at the time when it was following the likes of EverQuest but Wildstar is following the likes of Guild Wars 2. We need viable alternative paths for leveling besides quest, quest, quest, and quest some more.
This line made me lol.
I did actually play WoW vanilla and I can honestly say I liked it. I don't find the wildstar grind nearly as tedious as vanilla wow leveling but that's just me. Although, I also played MMOs prior to WoW where you actually lost XP for dying, so...
ESO has a lot of problems.... That will put a hold on any content schedule. Not sure why you even made the comparison.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Two games launched at roughly the same time. Sounds like a good reason to make a comparison to me.
If you need more of a reason ask Bcbully. He'll make comparisons all day for you.
How just how?? I mean with the name of a very awesome and successful franchise and a ton of cash for development, just how?? I wanted ESO to be awesome, I really did.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
It was sorta implied, maybe not by choice and just lack of mention, but fair enough.
My idea of MMO features certainly isn't questing, dungeons and raids. So I hope you'd understand why I'd take issue with that type of impression.
WIldstar to me is basically the culmination of approaches I just am not into. Loot before story, quantity over quality, dungeon, raid and itemization focus. For someone more into sandboxes, community and multi-role play, it leaves a lot to be desired. AT least in titles like TOR, ESO, TSW.. etc (those types of themeparks) there's at least a decent RPG story to keep me occupied for a month or two. I didn't feel much connection to that aspect of WS.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah and how much flak does he receive for it? WHy doesn't everyone else receive the same?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
As far as "the grind", I personally don't want to play a game where I am max level in 3 days, never ran a dungeon, have no idea how to play my class and then start torturing others.
One of the best parts about vanilla WoW is that once you actually made it to lvl 60 you had a pretty decent idea of how to play your class. You knew how to keep yourself alive and you understood the general mechanics of boss fights. Have you played WoW recently? I mean you can hit 90 in a few days never stepping foot in a dungeon and then get fully LFR geared out without ever having a clue then you step into a PuG and just torture those around you.
I don't have a ton of time in the day to allow myself to get fully immersed in the game where I feel like it's ok to just get lost in the endless amount of quests so it is pretty brutal. Its funny because I used to consider myself a hardcore gamer but now I have a life and all I want is to be able to jump into a game for a few hours and feel like I've accomplished something by the time I have to log out. I gained about a quarter of a level in my last session of Wildstar and it's like, "I'm paying $15 a month for this?" Leveling in theme park games is a chore and even action oriented combat doesn't change that. I want to get leveling out of the way as quickly as possible so I can jump into the real content which is at endgame. Carbine making the leveling process this laborious is just artificially extending the lifespan of the game's initial content at launch. Maybe I'm just too old and should back to overly nerfed super casual WoW because I just don't have enough time to devote to Wildstar just to feel like I've made any substantial progress.
Well you say you gave it thought, but why wouldn't the highly talked about issues that have been blown up everywhere spring to mind? I know you don't like SUB games, we've had the discussion before, but what do you think people who are committed to that sub are more worried about right now? What do you think is holding folks like myself back from purchasing at present, what am I waiting on? A working game, or more content that suffers because of broken game aspects?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I can see your point, I do agree that ToR and ESO had awesome story lines.
For me personally I would rather good, regular content releases over less frequent deeper heavy story line based releases since that fits my play style better. I like a game that keeps me wanting to come back because I hate playing for a month or two then not having an urge to log on for another few months.
I almost didn't play Wildstar because I was playing ESO and I am not really a sci-fi/space fan, but I am glad I did because I am loving it.
P.S. - For the record I don't think the wildstar story line is inferior, I just think its lighter and less serious which some may equate to "not as deep". I like getting mocked when I die, I like it saying "nom nom nom" over my head when I eat, I like the western feel slapped over a futuristic space setting.
I think this is wear we all have issues. Some people like leveling (RPG style) and some like end game (MMOs) and most games cant do both really well.
I think WoW has done the best job so far which is why they are wildly successfully.
My self, I haven't played WoW in a few years and don't miss it but I do thing about the great times i had in WoW. Its the same with EQ but most of the great times are based on community or friends that play the game and not the game itself.
WHo the heck said it was inferior? WHo said it was poorly implemented? everything I said was based on my own taste..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Looks a lot like argument for arguments sake to me here, for example what else would I mean by "committed to a sub"?
I have no idea how long I'd play, I just know what I experienced in beta, and by most reports many of those issues are still unresolved. I'm a PVPer at heart so if I get with a good guild I could play for years for all I know at this point.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson