The MMO story has been one of a transition to easymode solo play. Unlike the previous article said it was not just a change of what we wanted, it was where the game designers led us. The solo play was brought in to attract solo game players to MMOs, to make them bigger selling games. Players in the days of DAOC were not all on the boards asking for more solo play.
I wonder if MMORPG.com might consider another top ten? 'The solo games with the biggest multiplayer element' top ten. While MMOs have gone solo, solo games have gone multiplayer. I get more grouping gameplay from Battlefield and Space Marines than I do from a MMO. Solo Multiplayer Online, 'SMO', that's what MMOs are today.
You could always solo in MMO's.....
Being able to solo was one of the bigger selling points for Asheron's Call. Sure there were plenty of opportunities for grouping, but one could exist as a soloer if they chose to.
I still remember heading out of Rithwic with a pack full of supplies and following lifestones on a tour of northern areas going out killing, and selling excess loot and junk to the random vendors scattered throughout the area. Being out in the field for weeks at a time, running into random people having similar adventures, bouncing from lifestone to lifestone. The exploration in AC was outstanding.
Exactly. Most early MMOs were very conducive to solo play. EQ was the exception.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by SavageHorizon 'Lol, you forgot the leading mainstream mmo of the day EQ. The game was as hard as any of the games you listed and is still going 14 years later with content and expansions.
Awesome list!, loved SB and AC, though I think the list should be broken down a bit more.
Hard Core Grind
Hard Core Raiding
Hard Core Pvp
etc. Most of the time these lists are way too general. I know some games can fit into several lists at once, like SB, AC and EQ.
EQ imo kicked the crap out of most other games for raiding mechanics....or maybe it was camping x mob mechanics...either way we all had fun on them all.
You know you are old when the dev's on the games you play are almost young enough to be your grand-kids.
...There are many things incorrect and wrong about this item, but I will only dwell on one. FFXI came out in 2002, and came out in 2000 in Japan, China and Korea (I was in the beta for both JP and Global and still play with two Japanese guilds to this day). It is not below 5; it is actually at 3 on the all time MMORPG lists FOR THE WORLD. Just because Western 'players' don't get into a game, does not mean it is not popular and/or a contender. Hell, 90% of the games Westerners consider 'good' MMOs aren't even in the top ten of the world lists...
Please do more research before you make any statements; it is comments like yours that cause people to stray away from game websites and give more thought before you attempt to present a feature.
...There are many things incorrect and wrong about this item, but I will only dwell on one. FFXI came out in 2002, and came out in 2000 in Japan, China and Korea (I was in the beta for both JP and Global and still play with two Japanese guilds to this day). It is not below 5; it is actually at 3 on the all time MMORPG lists FOR THE WORLD. Just because Western 'players' don't get into a game, does not mean it is not popular and/or a contender. Hell, 90% of the games Westerners consider 'good' MMOs aren't even in the top ten of the world lists...
Please do more research before you make any statements; it is comments like yours that cause people to stray away from game websites and give more thought before you attempt to present a feature.
If you have to research what " the world" thinks before giving your opinion....it's not really your opinion. I guess to some people these lists are serious business.
Love AC/Darktide, Shadowbane, and M59 played them for a long time. have lots of memories including chasing Og all over the place (he actually put points in his toon's run skill, love that player, just a pk kosing anyone he see, sometimes roleplaying too), good times.
also, miss the great pvp rp guilds in darktide especially when they are protecting the weak even when they sacrifice losing their armor and weapons, and sometimes figthing with their underware talking in medieval english style. again, so many memories, good times.
MMORPG games played: M59-2 years, AC/Darktide-5 years,Shadowbane-3 years, SWG-1 year, WOW-1 year, and GW1-4 years.
I've played tons of games, watched alot of movies/tv shows and read half a library worth of books throughout my life. But in my honest opinion for entertainment, Shadowbane is one of the greatest things ever created. I could talk all day about it but instead I'm gonna go play it on Magicbane or Shadowbane emulator.
Lineage 2 has changed a bit. They have added quests for the lower levels to boost you up a bit.
I remember when the game started, I played pretty hardcore (my first mmo) and it took a week to get to level 21.
Given how much xp a lower level character can get from these quests I wouldn't be surprised if you could hit 21 in less than a day. It is my understanding however that the high levels still take a long time.
Yes, I recently went back to get a feel for how the game is now. You can fly through the lower levels with all the buffs they've added but after that not to much has change except for making some of the mobs harder. Still lots of broken quests and bots all over the higher levels. I still can't get over weapons and gear selling for billions.
I used to love this game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Shadowbane and Eve will always be my two hardcore MMO memories. The community, politics and consequences in those games makes everything else seem like a scripted theme park. In most games, you have enemies because they are flagged as enemies by the system. In SB/Eve, your enemies are decided by you, or for large nations/corporations, your leaders based on past interaction with people. Tie that in with the risk of losing virtually everything (experience, equipment, and even your home) you have because you made the wrong enemies, and most other games are left feeling hollow.
"You couldn't even jump in this game" - Unfortunately, there are still plenty of games including MMOs where jumping is non-existent or listed as feature. Both jumping and crossing water/swimming should always be included .And whether you can jump over something should solely depend on the actual height, and no 2 cm rails where you can't jump over, while you can reach that bar 5 meters above you with a standing jump *and* climb up.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
Originally posted by SavageHorizon 'Lol, you forgot the leading mainstream mmo of the day EQ. The game was as hard as any of the games you listed and is still going 14 years later with content and expansions.
No mmmo comes close.'
I agree, cant believe EQ wasnt mentioned......
EQ must have been mentioned in a previous top5. This presumably is the other 5.
No Anarchy Online ? , its funny how all the hardcore games are older games. Goes to show that the MMO scene has changed so much in such a little time, it actually saddens me.
I'd definitely have included Everquest. Whether you consider it a MMO or not, I'm gonna point Path of Exile as the most hardcore game in the latest released games.
Originally posted by SavageHorizon 'Lol, you forgot the leading mainstream mmo of the day EQ. The game was as hard as any of the games you listed and is still going 14 years later with content and expansions.
No mmmo comes close.'
I agree, cant believe EQ wasnt mentioned......
EQ must have been mentioned in a previous top5. This presumably is the other 5.
No its not hence my above post, at least read the first thread on this topic lol
What made Lineage 2 so hardcore was the death penalty and fighting for grinding spots, it was a game that created it's own drama by way of limiting resources. It was fun I played it all through college. Def hardcore, def a game you have tons of people botting in.
FFXI came out in 2002, and came out in 2000 in Japan, China and Korea (I was in the beta for both JP and Global and still play with two Japanese guilds to this day).
-snip-
Please do more research before you make any statements; it is comments like yours that cause people to stray away from game websites and give more thought before you attempt to present a feature.
Well, speaking of doing research..
FFXI came out for PS2 on May 16, 2002 and for Windows on November 7, 2002 in Japan. It may have been in early alpha or beta in 2000.. but it certainly wasn't out in retail yet.
In the US, it came out on October 28, 2003 for PC and March 23, 2004 on PS2.
It released on other platforms and in other regions after those dates.
I'm a huge fan of FFXI (pre-Abyssea), so I won't disagree on how good the game is/was. However, the irony of someone calling out others on "not doing research", and then not doing any themself is... well...
I am pretty sure FFXI is the ONLY mmorpg that a normal mob can give you all sorts of fits or straight out kill you,while other games rely on Bosses.Matter of fact MANY non boss mobs in FFXI are near impossible to solo even if you are higher level.Most every other mmorpg an even level mob is a fight you can eat,watch tv and play with the kids while you fight.Also in other games you can simply run if in trouble,in FFXI the mob is near relentless,he will chase you down and kill you.
I don't consider pvp at all a way to rate difficult in mmorpg's because they lack so many elements to bring out enough skills.Now if you want to talk fps's for pvp that is a different ball game,Unreal/Quake are pure skills.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I am pretty sure FFXI is the ONLY mmorpg that a normal mob can give you all sorts of fits or straight out kill you,while other games rely on Bosses.Matter of fact MANY non boss mobs in FFXI are near impossible to solo even if you are higher level.Most every other mmorpg an even level mob is a fight you can eat,watch tv and play with the kids while you fight.Also in other games you can simply run if in trouble,in FFXI the mob is near relentless,he will chase you down and kill you.
I don't consider pvp at all a way to rate difficult in mmorpg's because they lack so many elements to bring out enough skills.Now if you want to talk fps's for pvp that is a different ball game,Unreal/Quake are pure skills.
I really miss the way FFXI handled mobs in that game. I even miss the days before they changed the aggro so they'd despawn/respawn after losing aggro. It created a lot of chaos for sure - especially in tight areas (Entry hallway/stairs of Garlaige comes to mind), but it also mixed things up and kept it interesting .
I know that annoyed a lot of people... since it slowed their xp down. But "getting xp faster" was never a concern of mine. I wasn't there to "reach max level", I was there to play and experience game, along with its community. So I actually enjoyed those interruptions. Mixed things up a bit, got people chatting in local chat, and led to much hilarity. And anyway, things only "take too long" if you're in a hurry, so...
I've thought it for years now, and as the MMO genre continues to veer further away from what made it great in the first place, I believe it even more... SE captured lightning in a bottle with FFXI, in many ways. In all the MMOs I've played since (way, way way too many lol), none has managed to capture even a fraction of that lightning again... not even themselves with FFXIV:ARR.
And before someone says it, no that's not "nostalgia goggles" talking - the things I remember are what kept me playing for almost 8 years. When SE changed so much of the game to make it more "streamlined".. that's when I left, because it no longer was the game I'd enjoyed for all that time. It also wasn't "my first MMO" (it was actually my 3rd).
Originally posted by EQOAnostalgia Without EQOA this list is garbage. EQOA was twice as hard as anything on this list! Just because it only lasted 9 years and ran on PS2 doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a spot! It was THE FIRST console mmorpg.
Ever heard of Phantasy Star Online? It was released on dreamcast in 2001, before EQOA...
Comments
Exactly. Most early MMOs were very conducive to solo play. EQ was the exception.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Awesome list!, loved SB and AC, though I think the list should be broken down a bit more.
Hard Core Grind
Hard Core Raiding
Hard Core Pvp
etc. Most of the time these lists are way too general. I know some games can fit into several lists at once, like SB, AC and EQ.
EQ imo kicked the crap out of most other games for raiding mechanics....or maybe it was camping x mob mechanics...either way we all had fun on them all.
You know you are old when the dev's on the games you play are almost young enough to be your grand-kids.
...There are many things incorrect and wrong about this item, but I will only dwell on one. FFXI came out in 2002, and came out in 2000 in Japan, China and Korea (I was in the beta for both JP and Global and still play with two Japanese guilds to this day). It is not below 5; it is actually at 3 on the all time MMORPG lists FOR THE WORLD. Just because Western 'players' don't get into a game, does not mean it is not popular and/or a contender. Hell, 90% of the games Westerners consider 'good' MMOs aren't even in the top ten of the world lists...
Please do more research before you make any statements; it is comments like yours that cause people to stray away from game websites and give more thought before you attempt to present a feature.
If you have to research what " the world" thinks before giving your opinion....it's not really your opinion. I guess to some people these lists are serious business.
Love AC/Darktide, Shadowbane, and M59 played them for a long time. have lots of memories including chasing Og all over the place (he actually put points in his toon's run skill, love that player, just a pk kosing anyone he see, sometimes roleplaying too), good times.
also, miss the great pvp rp guilds in darktide especially when they are protecting the weak even when they sacrifice losing their armor and weapons, and sometimes figthing with their underware talking in medieval english style. again, so many memories, good times.
MMORPG games played: M59-2 years, AC/Darktide-5 years,Shadowbane-3 years, SWG-1 year, WOW-1 year, and GW1-4 years.
Yes, I recently went back to get a feel for how the game is now. You can fly through the lower levels with all the buffs they've added but after that not to much has change except for making some of the mobs harder. Still lots of broken quests and bots all over the higher levels. I still can't get over weapons and gear selling for billions.
I used to love this game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
FFXI.
There's a video on youtube of a guild fighting a monster (Absolute Virtue I think) for like 20 hours straight.
I actually agree with this list. This is one of the best lists i have ever seen on this site.
FFXI was hardcore one release, all the way up till abyssea.
Shadowbane i enjoyed the most. So many memories. This was a really hardcore game. Its the best open world pvp imo ever created.
EQ must have been mentioned in a previous top5. This presumably is the other 5.
No its not hence my above post, at least read the first thread on this topic lol
Well, speaking of doing research..
FFXI came out for PS2 on May 16, 2002 and for Windows on November 7, 2002 in Japan. It may have been in early alpha or beta in 2000.. but it certainly wasn't out in retail yet.
In the US, it came out on October 28, 2003 for PC and March 23, 2004 on PS2.
It released on other platforms and in other regions after those dates.
I'm a huge fan of FFXI (pre-Abyssea), so I won't disagree on how good the game is/was. However, the irony of someone calling out others on "not doing research", and then not doing any themself is... well...
I am pretty sure FFXI is the ONLY mmorpg that a normal mob can give you all sorts of fits or straight out kill you,while other games rely on Bosses.Matter of fact MANY non boss mobs in FFXI are near impossible to solo even if you are higher level.Most every other mmorpg an even level mob is a fight you can eat,watch tv and play with the kids while you fight.Also in other games you can simply run if in trouble,in FFXI the mob is near relentless,he will chase you down and kill you.
I don't consider pvp at all a way to rate difficult in mmorpg's because they lack so many elements to bring out enough skills.Now if you want to talk fps's for pvp that is a different ball game,Unreal/Quake are pure skills.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I really miss the way FFXI handled mobs in that game. I even miss the days before they changed the aggro so they'd despawn/respawn after losing aggro. It created a lot of chaos for sure - especially in tight areas (Entry hallway/stairs of Garlaige comes to mind), but it also mixed things up and kept it interesting
.
I know that annoyed a lot of people... since it slowed their xp down. But "getting xp faster" was never a concern of mine. I wasn't there to "reach max level", I was there to play and experience game, along with its community. So I actually enjoyed those interruptions. Mixed things up a bit, got people chatting in local chat, and led to much hilarity. And anyway, things only "take too long" if you're in a hurry, so...
I've thought it for years now, and as the MMO genre continues to veer further away from what made it great in the first place, I believe it even more... SE captured lightning in a bottle with FFXI, in many ways. In all the MMOs I've played since (way, way way too many lol), none has managed to capture even a fraction of that lightning again... not even themselves with FFXIV:ARR.
And before someone says it, no that's not "nostalgia goggles" talking - the things I remember are what kept me playing for almost 8 years. When SE changed so much of the game to make it more "streamlined".. that's when I left, because it no longer was the game I'd enjoyed for all that time. It also wasn't "my first MMO" (it was actually my 3rd).
Ever heard of Phantasy Star Online? It was released on dreamcast in 2001, before EQOA...