No quests = Looking for a game where you are not given something to do when you click on something or speak to someone. Go for any mmo you fancy and craft/pvp/explore & gather/grind/dungeons and don't pick up quests.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by daltanious Questing is ESSENTIAL to MMO as are wheels to car. One can not exist without other. Never worked and never will. Would be still playing Gw2 IF there would be classic questing. With exception of course of pure PVP games.
Broaden your horizons is all I can say to this... SWG-pre-cu barely had any quests at all and it worked perfectly well. Questing doesn't have to be at the forefront of a MMO's systems.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Nope.... Neverwinter Nights on AOL was technically the first... but you youngins'll get it someday.
Anyhow, I don't think you're really looking for an MMO at all if you don't want quests. Especially if you're more interested in PvE than PvP. Guess the closest you can find right now is GW2 since you get xp just for realizing your pinky toe is smaller than the big one. Quests are an inherent part of MMO's, and since traditionally, MMO's are put into the RPG category, that pretty much means quests. Might wanna try pac man or mario bros. or something /shrug
Maybe you're right. After all, What could possibly be better than this.
I guess my simple mind can't appreciate the brilliant design.
Back to pac man.
or one could make a zig zag of the same plot points in any number of different ways, even ignoring some?
I mean, if that is your argument go ahead and pick any game and I'll be happy to draw "one line" that connects all places.
Otherwise, now you are trolling.
Though I agree with you that an mmo doesn't have to have quests and would even prefer it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I was hoping for something like Everquest. Where questing didn't account for 90% of the pve experience. I can't argue with mmo's being "heavily and traditionally quest based" though. That's true all the way back to the first mmo, World of Warcraft.
Nope.... Neverwinter Nights on AOL was technically the first... but you youngins'll get it someday.
Anyhow, I don't think you're really looking for an MMO at all if you don't want quests.
How does that make any sense?
I love MMORPGs, but if I have to play another game where the ONLY way to level up is by following a magical GPS mini map to various chores-ahem, quests, rinse repeat done, then I'm just not going to play it. It was never an interesting mechanic, and it's only getting worse over time.
Originally posted by MacShwangus I could. Both of these games made mob exp give a miniscule fixed amount to discourage people from doing it. I'd prefer to grind in a game that didn't intentionally make it boring.
Honestly I can suggest Guild Wars 2 as well.
It's my fix while waiting for someone to make a smarter game.
Combat is fun and you can easily just go monster killing with a group of people or solo and it be fun. Some people complain about the lack of 39 extra god damn buttons on the screen, but I like the way the game plays. It's deeper than they'll give it credit for. Not always a face roll depending on the class and how you like to play.
Like hitting big and not worrying about utility much? Use a lot of passives. Want to be support / the helpful guy? Every class has something to contribute and it can keep you busy during long epic monster brawls.
I can't quest any more either. I really was digging Lord of the Rings Online after hating WoW, but I just couldn't get out of Rivendell without wanting to go beat up the local larp club.
-guild wars 2: there is a quest chain of course, but you can avoid it all. right from lvl 1 you can go pvp (boosted with standard equipment so no problem of balance). you can craft to level up, then at end game there is the WvW, world bosses, fractals,..
-archeage: ok here i won't speak a lot since there are so many things to level up with without ever touching a quest.
Originally posted by zach_b What type of game are you looking for? It doesn't sound like you want anything that involves MMO or RPG as both are heavily and traditionally quest based.
That's not what defines an rpg.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
indeed zach-b should look back at his definition of QUEST and RPG. the most important thing in an RPG is imagination, and most mmorpgs lately force quests onto your face and do not let you choose any path.
this basically results in one thing: you pick a quest => accept => go complete => rinse and repeat. no brainer, you pick you kill, you complete. that's the BIG problem with quests.
the games that actually give you some choice or give some REAL importance to what is written in quests are very very few.
just tell yourself: << when was the last time i could not complete a quest because i missed the hint that was written in the quest?>>
or: <<WHEN was the last time i had a riddle to answer in order to progress?>>
or:<< WHEN was the last time i had a quest with no markers?>> look at this one especially, you'll see that you have been auto tracking objectives for years....
It has quests (which are called missions) but not like a normal MMO. Plus there are no levels. If you want to shoot a rifle, just start shooting mobs and the more you shoot, the better you get. Same wit a sword or martial arts.
From website:
"The bulk of the Missions are generated missions. If a player is flagged as Looking For Work (an option) NPCs will seek them out with job offers. The offers will typically come from NPCs in the local area and will be tailored to the player's skill set. The job offers come in the form of an email from the NPC describing their current situation. Players can then either accept the job offer, or decline it."
You should read more about it at the website. It might not be for you, but it sure has a lot of cool stuff.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Quests do not need to be in an MMO... It's not the cornerstone of the genre... That's silly.
Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games require that they be massive, multiplayer, online, and allow for role playing..
You can assume a role and play as that role without quests... You don't need to quest to be multiplayer/online (ESO proves that quests don't have to be multiplayer, doesn't it?)..
Quests are not necessary. I find story-in-a-can makes it hard to role play.
Quests do not need to be in an MMO... It's not the cornerstone of the genre... That's silly.
Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games require that they be massive, multiplayer, online, and allow for role playing..
You can assume a role and play as that role without quests... You don't need to quest to be multiplayer/online (ESO proves that quests don't have to be multiplayer, doesn't it?)..
Quests are not necessary. I find story-in-a-can makes it hard to role play.
Dude RP might be what you like to do but know you are minority in the game.
Devs want to make money, money comes from players and players want to play a game where you accomplish something.
People calling quests a cornerstone for MMOs should try to think one step further.
Do MMOs have more players today? Yes, they do.
But do we have like 20 times more player in the possible pool? Yes, we do.
Do people stick to their MMO for longer the a month or 3 nowadays? Almost never.
Did people stick to Everquest for over a year? Hell yes, most even 3+ years and way beyond.
It is a huge missunderstanding that back then there was no competition. THE BEST GAMES EVER MADE all existed 10 years ago. All the masses of MMOs that are "competition" today are total crap. That does not count at all.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by MacShwangus I could. Both of these games made mob exp give a miniscule fixed amount to discourage people from doing it. I'd prefer to grind in a game that didn't intentionally make it boring.
When I read this I just had to stop and LMAO at the last line. There is no such thing as a none boring grind. That is what grind means in an MMO. The days of grouping up just to kill a mob then sit and chat while your health, etc... is restored is gone, looking at you EQ.
But with that said start looking toward Korean made games. They love to grind as you would say but most of them make bots that do it for them they love it so much.
Not really sure why you didn't like Aion as it was a grind fest. sure it has quest but if you want to do anything later on you have to grind like crazy.
Originally posted by MacShwangus I could. Both of these games made mob exp give a miniscule fixed amount to discourage people from doing it. I'd prefer to grind in a game that didn't intentionally make it boring.
When I read this I just had to stop and LMAO at the last line. There is no such thing as a none boring grind. That is what grind means in an MMO. The days of grouping up just to kill a mob then sit and chat while your health, etc... is restored is gone, looking at you EQ.
But with that said start looking toward Korean made games. They love to grind as you would say but most of them make bots that do it for them they love it so much.
Not really sure why you didn't like Aion as it was a grind fest. sure it has quest but if you want to do anything later on you have to grind like crazy.
Crazy, I found grinding fun in some games and boring in others. Must be an irrational brain parasite. I tried Aion and the other "final fantasy hair" games, but just couldn't get into it.
In terms of finding a game in-between moba and mmo. I think they'll make an expanded moba or arpg with more features before they change any mmo formula above indie games. I'd rather avoid mmo's for a while.
To really talk about grinding we need to define what grinding means.
Some people (including me) are guilty of saying "i like grinding mobs", when they (again, including me) actually mean to say: "I like killing tough mobs that reward me and my GROUP that is with me".
Kinda the way EQ 1 was and Aion just is not. Aion just takes a shitton of easymode solo mobs to advance. That is the BAd "grinding" noone likes. Everquest 1 has tough mobs that give more xp, because you have to really work hard to beat em. Also grouping up gives dramatically increased xp, since you can take on MUCH toucher mobs TOGETHER.
So grinding boring solo content is not fun. "Grinding" like EQ had it was and STILL is fun. Because you choose how to do it. Relaxed and easymode? Sure, just take it easy. XP will be slower. Want to really push it for an hour? Take on the tougher mobs in other zones. Your XP will skyrocket and you will be in constant fear of dying. Want to group up? Easy going. Everyone loves to group up to take on even more tough mobs.
Just calling everything " a grind " is simply wrong and often leads to discussions (like this one) that go in the wrong direction since both sides talk about differend "grinds".
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by macwood Get to level cap then you will not have to quest
Sure, because then you are left with the mostly repetitive grind of pvp or raiding. What fun that ISN'T.
There is nothing wrong with quests if you have an attention span longer then a fly AND the quests are good. If either of those fail, then questing is not for you. Try spit ball rolling or spoon flipping.
The problem with good quests of course is that they eventually run out and then you are back to that pvp and raiding boredom.
Comments
Pathfinder Online is completely player driven with player built cities and deep crafting.
The Empire of Xeilias already has two guaranteed city plots, but we need more players to inhabit those cities!
If you'd like to join us check out http://xeilias.com/index.php
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Broaden your horizons is all I can say to this... SWG-pre-cu barely had any quests at all and it worked perfectly well. Questing doesn't have to be at the forefront of a MMO's systems.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
or one could make a zig zag of the same plot points in any number of different ways, even ignoring some?
I mean, if that is your argument go ahead and pick any game and I'll be happy to draw "one line" that connects all places.
Otherwise, now you are trolling.
Though I agree with you that an mmo doesn't have to have quests and would even prefer it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
How does that make any sense?
I love MMORPGs, but if I have to play another game where the ONLY way to level up is by following a magical GPS mini map to various chores-ahem, quests, rinse repeat done, then I'm just not going to play it. It was never an interesting mechanic, and it's only getting worse over time.
Honestly I can suggest Guild Wars 2 as well.
It's my fix while waiting for someone to make a smarter game.
Combat is fun and you can easily just go monster killing with a group of people or solo and it be fun. Some people complain about the lack of 39 extra god damn buttons on the screen, but I like the way the game plays. It's deeper than they'll give it credit for. Not always a face roll depending on the class and how you like to play.
Like hitting big and not worrying about utility much? Use a lot of passives. Want to be support / the helpful guy? Every class has something to contribute and it can keep you busy during long epic monster brawls.
I can't quest any more either. I really was digging Lord of the Rings Online after hating WoW, but I just couldn't get out of Rivendell without wanting to go beat up the local larp club.
a yo ho ho
Not sure if funny joke or serious. If funny joke, you made me smile.
i didn't look too much into this but you have:
-guild wars 2: there is a quest chain of course, but you can avoid it all. right from lvl 1 you can go pvp (boosted with standard equipment so no problem of balance). you can craft to level up, then at end game there is the WvW, world bosses, fractals,..
-archeage: ok here i won't speak a lot since there are so many things to level up with without ever touching a quest.
-must i list mmos with grinding? no need i think.
That's not what defines an rpg.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
indeed zach-b should look back at his definition of QUEST and RPG. the most important thing in an RPG is imagination, and most mmorpgs lately force quests onto your face and do not let you choose any path.
this basically results in one thing: you pick a quest => accept => go complete => rinse and repeat. no brainer, you pick you kill, you complete. that's the BIG problem with quests.
the games that actually give you some choice or give some REAL importance to what is written in quests are very very few.
just tell yourself: << when was the last time i could not complete a quest because i missed the hint that was written in the quest?>>
or: <<WHEN was the last time i had a riddle to answer in order to progress?>>
or:<< WHEN was the last time i had a quest with no markers?>> look at this one especially, you'll see that you have been auto tracking objectives for years....
https://www.therepopulation.com/
It has quests (which are called missions) but not like a normal MMO. Plus there are no levels. If you want to shoot a rifle, just start shooting mobs and the more you shoot, the better you get. Same wit a sword or martial arts.
From website:
"The bulk of the Missions are generated missions. If a player is flagged as Looking For Work (an option) NPCs will seek them out with job offers. The offers will typically come from NPCs in the local area and will be tailored to the player's skill set. The job offers come in the form of an email from the NPC describing their current situation. Players can then either accept the job offer, or decline it."
You should read more about it at the website. It might not be for you, but it sure has a lot of cool stuff.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Reading between the lines OP, you need to play another genre.
Quests in an MMORPG are a cornerstone of the genre, if you don't like it go away.
this seems like it fits here...
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/Article/5332/Darkfall-Unholy-Wars-The-MMO-youve-never-heard-of/
Quests do not need to be in an MMO... It's not the cornerstone of the genre... That's silly.
Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games require that they be massive, multiplayer, online, and allow for role playing..
You can assume a role and play as that role without quests... You don't need to quest to be multiplayer/online (ESO proves that quests don't have to be multiplayer, doesn't it?)..
Quests are not necessary. I find story-in-a-can makes it hard to role play.
totally incorrect on more than one level
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
We are not stuck in 1997 any more dude.
We are talking about games that people actually play today.
And nothing would be more boring than an open world with absolutely nothing to do in it except talk garbage with people in chat.
There are BBS boards for that.
Dude RP might be what you like to do but know you are minority in the game.
Devs want to make money, money comes from players and players want to play a game where you accomplish something.
It's not that hard a concept to accept.
People calling quests a cornerstone for MMOs should try to think one step further.
It is a huge missunderstanding that back then there was no competition. THE BEST GAMES EVER MADE all existed 10 years ago. All the masses of MMOs that are "competition" today are total crap. That does not count at all.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
When I read this I just had to stop and LMAO at the last line. There is no such thing as a none boring grind. That is what grind means in an MMO. The days of grouping up just to kill a mob then sit and chat while your health, etc... is restored is gone, looking at you EQ.
But with that said start looking toward Korean made games. They love to grind as you would say but most of them make bots that do it for them they love it so much.
Not really sure why you didn't like Aion as it was a grind fest. sure it has quest but if you want to do anything later on you have to grind like crazy.
Crazy, I found grinding fun in some games and boring in others. Must be an irrational brain parasite. I tried Aion and the other "final fantasy hair" games, but just couldn't get into it.
In terms of finding a game in-between moba and mmo. I think they'll make an expanded moba or arpg with more features before they change any mmo formula above indie games. I'd rather avoid mmo's for a while.
To really talk about grinding we need to define what grinding means.
Some people (including me) are guilty of saying "i like grinding mobs", when they (again, including me) actually mean to say: "I like killing tough mobs that reward me and my GROUP that is with me".
Kinda the way EQ 1 was and Aion just is not. Aion just takes a shitton of easymode solo mobs to advance. That is the BAd "grinding" noone likes. Everquest 1 has tough mobs that give more xp, because you have to really work hard to beat em. Also grouping up gives dramatically increased xp, since you can take on MUCH toucher mobs TOGETHER.
So grinding boring solo content is not fun. "Grinding" like EQ had it was and STILL is fun. Because you choose how to do it. Relaxed and easymode? Sure, just take it easy. XP will be slower. Want to really push it for an hour? Take on the tougher mobs in other zones. Your XP will skyrocket and you will be in constant fear of dying. Want to group up? Easy going. Everyone loves to group up to take on even more tough mobs.
Just calling everything " a grind " is simply wrong and often leads to discussions (like this one) that go in the wrong direction since both sides talk about differend "grinds".
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Have you played XCOM ?
pure awesome
Sure, because then you are left with the mostly repetitive grind of pvp or raiding. What fun that ISN'T.
There is nothing wrong with quests if you have an attention span longer then a fly AND the quests are good. If either of those fail, then questing is not for you. Try spit ball rolling or spoon flipping.
The problem with good quests of course is that they eventually run out and then you are back to that pvp and raiding boredom.
Let's party like it is 1863!