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Wll PvPer enjoy a PvP mmorpg?
amappala
Member UncommonPosts: 159
Let says alot of the PvPers got their wish of an awesome PvP mmorpg.
Every PvPers joined this game, even the hardcore PvPers.
Alot of the PvPers keep getting ganked by the hardcore PvPers.
They cant seem to win every fight.
The game is not fun for these PvPers who keep losing.
They leave the game.
The hardcore PvPers keep running out of players to gank and fight.
They still have fun fighting with other hardcore PvPers,
but their numbers keep going down.
Soon, the developers sees a need to make up the loses and start changing it to more carebear friendly to gain more customers.
Comments
All generalizations are false, including this one.
I agree with Beatbox. In WoW, i play in an RPPVP server (LightningHoof if anyone cares) and when i get smoked in PvP, i just go back, get my body, and run. lol. So, i think i'd enjoy a full PvP MMO.
I generalize the Hardcore PvPers as the uber players who keep winning.
I generalize the PvPers who cant win as the quiters.
And the generalizations continue. And you surely know what i've been playing too.. yeah..
Some generalizations about PVPers then, shall we?
ALL PVPers are nerds who were bullied in school. ALL PVPers are skinny, short and have no friends etc etc..
One can really have fun with generalizations.. grow up. please.
And just to answer your question, i have pked in other games then counter-strike, yes. Among them Eve, ww2online and wow, just to name a few.
And congrats on your 6 years of mmorpg playing, a real accomplishment, you should be proud of yourself
The secret is to make participants in PvP "semi-annonymous." That is to say, neither side can see the name, or the guild tags, of the one who pwns, or is pwned.
PvPers claim that the reason they like PvP is that no AI can duplicate the creativity and tenacity of a live player. Its not for resaons of domination they like PvP. Its for reasons of challenge.
Players who do not like PvP claim the reason they do not like it is because many use it as an excuse to act upon their urges to dominate others. Therefore, they would have no problem with it if there were no social priveledges or stigmas associated with it.
The reasons semi-annonymity can work is based upon John Rawls's notion of "The Veil of Ignorance." Since there are no unique identifying characteristics like a name, there is no way one can be griefed, or know they dominated or was dominated by another.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
You are basically describing my life in SWG until the CU hit
Chances are, a PvPer would love a full PvP game, as long as there were ways to stay competitive, even if you didn't play 10+ hours a day. Heck, if all the PvPers went into a PvP game, that would probobly make it easier for everybody else, let them trash each other as much as they want.
Most people consider me carebear (carebear...yet another lovely insult created by "leet" people who think non PvPers are somehow subpar to them) cause I hate PvP...but it's not PvP itself I hate, it's hardcore gamers that think it's fun to kill people 20 levels lower then themselves that drives me nuts. I would love PvP if there was a game where it was always even, and you didn't have to worry that some ass was going to come along and slap you upside the head and kill you for the simple fact that they can kill you.
Griefers are why I hate PvP. PvP itself is fine with me =/ but they have no game out (that I know of) that balances it properly yet.
You should try Unreal Tournament, or Quake Arena. There are no levels just ability.
You should try Unreal Tournament, or Quake Arena. There are no levels just ability.
I have, actually
That's why PvP in level/class based skill systems is near pointless. Those that level faster win.
Another reason why UO was different from the rest, you could have another alt ready for pvp in a few days and still be competitive with the people that have been around for months. Another reason why I'm looking forward to The Chronicles also.
in a hard core pvp game you are likely to get your respawn place camped and will not even be able to finnish with the loading of the new area before you get killed again... would not take that happening to often before you move onto a new game.
How about PvP in a twitch(as in players actual skills) based combat system?
Like Jumpgate for an example, yes there is leveling in this game but it does not matter because, it all falls down too the players skills, reflexes how fast you can respond, etc. No matter how high the level you are, you can still fall pray to the lower level.
This video clip shows a perfect example. A light fighter(level 9 ship, in first person view) fighting against a heavy fighter(level 31 ship) which has a bigger shields and firepower than the light fighter. Light fighter outruns the higher level ship with heavy firepower and shielding btw.
However, High level ship + skilled pilot vs. light fighter no matter what skills, or More than one high level ship vs. light fighter = light fighter goes bye bye.
So in that game, the more levels you get, the more access to the items(and hopefully not uber) you get.
So if a PvPer wants to cause trouble in a skilled based mmo either FPS or space combat, better spend some hours practicing and getting trained.
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Give me lights give me action. With a touch of a button!
Wow...
That was lame, and unfounded. There is no generalization of PvP'ers being as such. The generalization is much larger. The generalization you described is of GAMERS, period.
Now, to address some other statements.
1. Balanced PvP isn't fun. Because it isn't a challenge. If I wanted balanced PvP, I'd go play Counterstrike. The idea of a roleplaying game is to assimilate a role. Whether that be the victim, or victimizer. If everything is equally footed, then it would shatter that point.
It's the same thing as how there are no heroes in MMORPG's, as there are in RPG's. In MMORPG's you shatter the idealism of hero, because everyone is a hero. There are no "little people".
I want to be able to push around a little peon until he gives me his 5 gold coins. I also want every bounty hunter on the continent searching after my ass to claim the 5000 gold piece reward. Bounty hunters that may, or may not be superior. It's removing the controlled enviroment, and making a sandbox. That's what I enjoy about PvP.
2. Spawn camping. Spawn camping is easily fixed. In AC1 darktide they even made it after you were killed, when you spawned at the lifestone that you were impervious for 5 minutes. You don't even need it to that extreme. You could for example make spawnpoints in cities, or completely random.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
You're foolish. You think everyone that wants open PvP wants an mmorpg based on PvP. When, infact, most people that want open PvP just want an mmorpg that incorporates it because they know how much more fun and dynamic an mmorpg is with it. Most of those people also played UO, and that's why they know. They know that it can be implemented correctly. You are obviously ignorant yet still posting on the matter, which makes you foolish.
Those that seperate PvE and PvP, even if they support both, are clueless.
Those are generalisations not facts. I know a lot of carebears that never quit. I played EQ for many years on a blue server, so your assumptions are incorrect. So I'm originally a carebear too, allthough I like games that implement pvp for immersive reasons.
In reply to the OP: Just as developers of non-pvp, devs of pvp mmorpg's are trying to balance the game. They try to prevent casual players to be ganked all the time. PvP is in my opinion not about killing as many people as you can but only about creating a more immersive world. (allthough many devs didn't get that) It's an extremely hard job for the devs but there should be action and reaction. Your deeds should have consequences unless you do it so perfect no one notice it. One way to do that is making people afraid of getting a bad name. Permadeath can be a solution in that. So I really will think twice when I know that killing someone would put my name on a "most wanted list", resulting in a lot of people chasing me to kill me; Resulting me to have to start all over again at level 1 with a character I worked on for months.
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Xarixer
You're foolish. You think everyone that wants open PvP wants an mmorpg based on PvP. When, infact, most people that want open PvP just want an mmorpg that incorporates it because they know how much more fun and dynamic an mmorpg is with it. Most of those people also played UO, and that's why they know. They know that it can be implemented correctly. You are obviously ignorant yet still posting on the matter, which makes you foolish.
Those that seperate PvE and PvP, even if they support both, are clueless.
UO, hmmm... Kinda hard to bring back the time and make UO an almost monopoly again.
Back then, there was not much competition, so fresh supply of newbies keep coming in.
Also, at todays time, alot of players hate mmorpg that have players macroing to skill up their characters while they are afk.
PvP is fun when you are on top, but not fun when you are at the bottom.
Even less fun when prospect to climb up the ladder is slim.
I had a great time playing GW last Saturday winning 65% of the time.
I log back Sunday, and I was winning 2% of the time, and I hated it.
I never said UO was perfect, I was simply giving an example of an mmorpg with pvp where the pvp enhanced the gameplay and was not the sole purpose.
Also, as a matter of fact, I was not a very good PK in UO. I got killed more than I killed and I still enjoyed it greatly. Hell, one of my most memorable PvP moments was getting killed by a famous faction member named DrDeath after hearing of his infamy. Another one of my memorable PvP moments was meeting CKJ and talking to him. It was cool because I heard of his great skill in PvP through others. None of that would be possible with the current line of MMORPGs. PvP is seperated and means almost nothing to everyone in the new games.
So, no, you're wrong. It's not always as simple as, "PvP is fun when you are on top, but not fun when you are on bottom."
Seems alot of people unfamilar with pvp mmorpgs have a problem understanding the mindset of the pvp player.
It's important to point out that the pvp in a game like Shadowbane is completely different from the pvp you may have encountered in f.ex World of Warcraft. In WoW griefing is common because there's no penalty to death, no consequences of being a pain in the ass. If you die you get a corpserun and maybe you have to figure your way around an immidiate corpsecamp. That's the worst thing that can happen to you.
A true pvp mmorpg is policed be the players themselves, mafia style if you like. Safe havens occur in areas claimed by big guilds, because outsiders know that if they're caught messing around with the members of the big guild (especially on their own turf) they are likely to be hunted throughout the game for however long the guild cares to and possibly the loss of items and equipment each time ^^ Then you have the lawless areas where you simply can't go alone because the risk of ambush or whatever while you're minding your buisiness is too great. This is what it's all about in my opinion. The sense of risk. Alot of the recent PvE's try to some part emulate this experience, but again, there's no real penalties included.
I'm not dissing those games mind. Different settings works for different games. I've spent alot of hours in Anarchy Online, DAoC, EQ2 and WoW and I have no problem enjoying those games and the PvE content, but once you max out on the level grind the raiding options can only entertain you for so long before becoming stale and repetive. I like diversity and it's been ages since I played a proper mmorpg now.
In my opinion risk defines alot of the good games out there. What would Resident Evil be like if you had endless ammo and respawned ontop of your corpse after death? Alot of people say the new gen of mmo's cater to singleplayer gamers, but that generalisation is kind of flawed. It'd be more fair to say is they're aimed for the casual gamer, and very successful at that of course.
Why suggest pvp'ers were bullied kids who crave for bullying others in games? Seems to me that if you feel you have to be rude towards people wanting a different game than you, it's not them having insecurity issues
It's ignoring what true pvp mmorpgs are all about. Sure it may be complete anarchy for the first few weeks, but as the community grows a system emerges and that's what makes the experience. A true community controlled game.
Easiest thing to do would have an MMO with 3 main servers...one PvE only, one open PvP, and one PvE/PvP where you have various ways to control PvP, so you don't have to do it if you don't want to, but it's there when you want it.
That would make everybody happy =/ well...not everybody. Somebody always complains about something (not saying thats any particular group of people...everybody complains about crap).
The problem I have with PvP again, is still griefers. They push lower level characters out of the game. Lineage II was a good example for me. A few high level characters were hanging out around the starting city, and killing every new player that came out, claiming to be "preserving the integrity of the game by keeping out newbs". Yea...byebye new players.
Even totally open PvP wouldn't bother me if there was an EFFECTIVE way to keep it in check. Bounty's don't work at all, a player just goes around, racks up a huge bounty, then has a friend kill him for the reward and they split it. I have yet to play a game that had open PvP, and an effective way of keeping it in check so that people think before they do it. Karma system never really worked, the UO system never worked, they eventually turned that into a PvE only server to prevent the massive slaughters. Shadowbane...well, that had no rules at all. Eve...never really played it long enough to care, the game's to slow for me, but I haven't seen as that system keeps people from just doing mass slaughters either. (Then again, it's hard to sort out fact from whining and fanboyism when it comes to Eve...i've never seen a more rabid group of players)
Keep this discussion civil with less anger towards other people's opinions and this thread will remain open. We have received complaints.
- Malkavian
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"
It's so cute when they try to argue against reality. "it's not so! It's not so! It's not so! There's no open PvP because developers are unfair bastards!"
Chris Mattern