While I agree many of the modern MMOs are successful with solo-friendly progression and quest hubs, I highly doubt that they are so successful that MMO developers no longer want to innovate or present different flavors.
Of course they innovate and try new things. Where do you think MOBA come from?
However, no one says they have to stick to old MMORPG design though. Look at Blizz .. they are doing new stuff (MOBA & card games), just not a new MMORPG.
Look at Destiny .... forget about the old persistent world design .. just use new online ideas, and make the game fun.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like MMORPGs."
Correction ... MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like OLD MMORPGs. They like them now, otherwise why would there be a big market.
Narus, not so sure they like the new ones. I see AAA MMORPG, some based on gigantic IP's, come and go like a French escort. Only very few have had staying power, and most of those had the old design element of open world (EQ1, EVE, Minecraft).
If you don' t like the new ones, why even spend a min in them? They obviously like them enough to spend time (or even money).We can debate how much and how many like the new ones .. but clearly most don't like the old ones.
Like the alcoholic will drink Aqua Velva aftershave, the mmorpg-a-holic will try any new MMO that comes out. But both hope for what they really want, not the fix of the moment.
Here we go, that insulting attitude again.And what if those people really enjoy the games they are playing? Then, it makes you a rude arrogant "better than thou" person... and that is kindly said.
THis^People go see movies, listen to music, and play games they enjoy, there's far too many options in these departments to not seek out exactly what you want or like.
While I understand that ReallyNow10's post may sound insulting, look at the examples we have here at MMORPG.com. Almost every new MMO sells millions, right off the bat. Then we get inundated with posts that bemoan the game, by players who purchased/played the game. Unfulfilled (and possibly unreal) expectations abound.
What this tells me is that some players are buying every new MMO that releases. They play those MMOs. They complain about the same MMOs. That sounds fairly "alcoholic-like" to me. These players are incapable of NOT buying any new MMO.
Of course there are lots of other (more silent) players that buy/play new MMOs and enjoy them.
All I am saying is, why get offended if the shoe does not fit?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
While I agree many of the modern MMOs are successful with solo-friendly progression and quest hubs, I highly doubt that they are so successful that MMO developers no longer want to innovate or present different flavors.
Of course they innovate and try new things. Where do you think MOBA come from?
However, no one says they have to stick to old MMORPG design though. Look at Blizz .. they are doing new stuff (MOBA & card games), just not a new MMORPG.
Look at Destiny .... forget about the old persistent world design .. just use new online ideas, and make the game fun.
That's all fine and dandy. Too bad a MOBA will never prevent MMORPG players from, well, playing MMORPGs. Separate genres that serve separate purposes, and a developer that has released an MMORPG developing a game in a different genre means very little for the MMO genre. Blizzard was in other genres before MMORPG, but I don't think their release of WoW was a death knell for the RTS genre.
Ultimately, the worst common feature is the strict reliance upon a steady flow of money.
Money is the common curse of entertainment as art.
The irony is that if an MMO could be free of perpetual popularity as the prime obligation, the best of them would likely be perpetually popular to a much greater degree.
Instead of bold visionaries, we're witnessing developers heavily curtailed by investors and suits, and they're basically being asked to be crusaders of design in the name of money, whilst being allowed to be little but aping cowards.
While I understand that ReallyNow10's post may sound insulting, look at the examples we have here at MMORPG.com. Almost every new MMO sells millions, right off the bat. Then we get inundated with posts that bemoan the game, by players who purchased/played the game. Unfulfilled (and possibly unreal) expectations abound.
What this tells me is that some players are buying every new MMO that releases. They play those MMOs. They complain about the same MMOs. That sounds fairly "alcoholic-like" to me. These players are incapable of NOT buying any new MMO.
Of course there are lots of other (more silent) players that buy/play new MMOs and enjoy them.
All I am saying is, why get offended if the shoe does not fit?
Who says those are the target market for a game though. Sure devs like to cash in on them but game after game it's the same thing and they're not getting what they want. Who's to say those people would stay in any game ?
I don't think it's a fair assumption that these people would like an updated version of what you liked years ago any better than what they get now.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like MMORPGs."
Correction ... MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like OLD MMORPGs. They like them now, otherwise why would there be a big market.
Narus, not so sure they like the new ones. I see AAA MMORPG, some based on gigantic IP's, come and go like a French escort. Only very few have had staying power, and most of those had the old design element of open world (EQ1, EVE, Minecraft).
If you don' t like the new ones, why even spend a min in them? They obviously like them enough to spend time (or even money).
We can debate how much and how many like the new ones .. but clearly most don't like the old ones.
Like the alcoholic will drink Aqua Velva aftershave, the mmorpg-a-holic will try any new MMO that comes out. But both hope for what they really want, not the fix of the moment.
Here we go, that insulting attitude again.
And what if those people really enjoy the games they are playing? Then, it makes you a rude arrogant "better than thou" person... and that is kindly said.
THis^
People go see movies, listen to music, and play games they enjoy, there's far too many options in these departments to not seek out exactly what you want or like.
While I understand that ReallyNow10's post may sound insulting, look at the examples we have here at MMORPG.com. Almost every new MMO sells millions, right off the bat. Then we get inundated with posts that bemoan the game, by players who purchased/played the game. Unfulfilled (and possibly unreal) expectations abound.
What this tells me is that some players are buying every new MMO that releases. They play those MMOs. They complain about the same MMOs. That sounds fairly "alcoholic-like" to me. These players are incapable of NOT buying any new MMO.
Of course there are lots of other (more silent) players that buy/play new MMOs and enjoy them.
All I am saying is, why get offended if the shoe does not fit?
Replying to a point means I'm offended? ( apologies if that's not what you were implying and were being more rhetorical) No offense taken from reallynow's post, just my two cents on the matter.
I don't really see people's complaints generalizing a certain genre as much as decisions made in each individual game. "Why'd ESO seemingly force everyone down a questing path?" as one example.. "I can't see anything going on in wildstar's PVP" being another.
How many people who actually don't want to play a themepark go and buy WIldstar or a WOW expansion? Granted if someone makes a complaint they're generally categorized as hating the themepark, like what happened to many who complained about being forced to quest, but that reply doesn't make that "themepark" hate so. It's just typical generalizing rather than facing the criticism.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Almost anything deemed a convenience which promotes solo play that in turn creates the anti-social communities. Nearly everything in this thread fits the description of convenience feature or was ruined because of it.
While I agree many of the modern MMOs are successful with solo-friendly progression and quest hubs, I highly doubt that they are so successful that MMO developers no longer want to innovate or present different flavors.
Of course they innovate and try new things. Where do you think MOBA come from?
However, no one says they have to stick to old MMORPG design though. Look at Blizz .. they are doing new stuff (MOBA & card games), just not a new MMORPG.
Look at Destiny .... forget about the old persistent world design .. just use new online ideas, and make the game fun.
That's all fine and dandy. Too bad a MOBA will never prevent MMORPG players from, well, playing MMORPGs. Separate genres that serve separate purposes, and a developer that has released an MMORPG developing a game in a different genre means very little for the MMO genre. Blizzard was in other genres before MMORPG, but I don't think their release of WoW was a death knell for the RTS genre.
If big dev like Blizz moves away from a genre (like they do now away from MMORPGs), then you will have fewer AAA new games, and the genre will become marginalized.
What this tells me is that some players are buying every new MMO that releases. They play those MMOs. They complain about the same MMOs. That sounds fairly "alcoholic-like" to me. These players are incapable of NOT buying any new MMO.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like MMORPGs."
Correction ... MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like OLD MMORPGs. They like them now, otherwise why would there be a big market.
Narus, not so sure they like the new ones. I see AAA MMORPG, some based on gigantic IP's, come and go like a French escort. Only very few have had staying power, and most of those had the old design element of open world (EQ1, EVE, Minecraft).
If you don' t like the new ones, why even spend a min in them? They obviously like them enough to spend time (or even money).We can debate how much and how many like the new ones .. but clearly most don't like the old ones.
Like the alcoholic will drink Aqua Velva aftershave, the mmorpg-a-holic will try any new MMO that comes out. But both hope for what they really want, not the fix of the moment.
Here we go, that insulting attitude again.And what if those people really enjoy the games they are playing? Then, it makes you a rude arrogant "better than thou" person... and that is kindly said.
THis^People go see movies, listen to music, and play games they enjoy, there's far too many options in these departments to not seek out exactly what you want or like.
While I understand that ReallyNow10's post may sound insulting, look at the examples we have here at MMORPG.com. Almost every new MMO sells millions, right off the bat. Then we get inundated with posts that bemoan the game, by players who purchased/played the game. Unfulfilled (and possibly unreal) expectations abound.What this tells me is that some players are buying every new MMO that releases. They play those MMOs. They complain about the same MMOs. That sounds fairly "alcoholic-like" to me. These players are incapable of NOT buying any new MMO.Of course there are lots of other (more silent) players that buy/play new MMOs and enjoy them.All I am saying is, why get offended if the shoe does not fit?
Replying to a point means I'm offended? ( apologies if that's not what you were implying and were being more rhetorical) No offense taken from reallynow's post, just my two cents on the matter.I don't really see people's complaints generalizing a certain genre as much as decisions made in each individual game. "Why'd ESO seemingly force everyone down a questing path?" as one example.. "I can't see anything going on in wildstar's PVP" being another.How many people who actually don't want to play a themepark go and buy WIldstar or a WOW expansion? Granted if someone makes a complaint they're generally categorized as hating the themepark, like what happened to many who complained about being forced to quest, but that reply doesn't make that "themepark" hate so. It's just typical generalizing rather than facing the criticism.
Well, I don't know if you and Jean-Luc were offended, but he did say "Here we go, that insulting attitude again." And you heartily agreed. I am sure some posters were offended, just not sure about you two
That aside, You have valid points about the complainers here. However, there are some posters that DO buy/play every new MMO, simply because it is an MMO.
For some odd reason, Human Beings find being negative much easier than being positive. I'd like to see what happens to the industry if players would just stop trying to find that "first time experience" again and again, and not bother with games they know (down deep, though usually not admitted) that will not satisfy them. That's what I do, but I am only 1 player among millions.
PS: Man... That took me longer to re-format than it did to write my response!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
Of course they innovate and try new things. Where do you think MOBA come from?
However, no one says they have to stick to old MMORPG design though. Look at Blizz .. they are doing new stuff (MOBA & card games), just not a new MMORPG.
Look at Destiny .... forget about the old persistent world design .. just use new online ideas, and make the game fun.
What this tells me is that some players are buying every new MMO that releases. They play those MMOs. They complain about the same MMOs. That sounds fairly "alcoholic-like" to me. These players are incapable of NOT buying any new MMO.
Of course there are lots of other (more silent) players that buy/play new MMOs and enjoy them.
All I am saying is, why get offended if the shoe does not fit?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
That's all fine and dandy. Too bad a MOBA will never prevent MMORPG players from, well, playing MMORPGs. Separate genres that serve separate purposes, and a developer that has released an MMORPG developing a game in a different genre means very little for the MMO genre. Blizzard was in other genres before MMORPG, but I don't think their release of WoW was a death knell for the RTS genre.
Ultimately, the worst common feature is the strict reliance upon a steady flow of money.
Money is the common curse of entertainment as art.
The irony is that if an MMO could be free of perpetual popularity as the prime obligation, the best of them would likely be perpetually popular to a much greater degree.
Instead of bold visionaries, we're witnessing developers heavily curtailed by investors and suits, and they're basically being asked to be crusaders of design in the name of money, whilst being allowed to be little but aping cowards.
Who says those are the target market for a game though. Sure devs like to cash in on them but game after game it's the same thing and they're not getting what they want. Who's to say those people would stay in any game ?
I don't think it's a fair assumption that these people would like an updated version of what you liked years ago any better than what they get now.
Replying to a point means I'm offended? ( apologies if that's not what you were implying and were being more rhetorical) No offense taken from reallynow's post, just my two cents on the matter.
I don't really see people's complaints generalizing a certain genre as much as decisions made in each individual game. "Why'd ESO seemingly force everyone down a questing path?" as one example.. "I can't see anything going on in wildstar's PVP" being another.
How many people who actually don't want to play a themepark go and buy WIldstar or a WOW expansion? Granted if someone makes a complaint they're generally categorized as hating the themepark, like what happened to many who complained about being forced to quest, but that reply doesn't make that "themepark" hate so. It's just typical generalizing rather than facing the criticism.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
agreed
Almost anything deemed a convenience which promotes solo play that in turn creates the anti-social communities. Nearly everything in this thread fits the description of convenience feature or was ruined because of it.
If big dev like Blizz moves away from a genre (like they do now away from MMORPGs), then you will have fewer AAA new games, and the genre will become marginalized.
You are just making this up with no data.
http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2014.pdf
"59% of Americans play video games". That is roughly 187M players (318M population)
Let say a new MMO sells 3M .... who says it is the same 3M players when there are 187M out there?
That aside, You have valid points about the complainers here. However, there are some posters that DO buy/play every new MMO, simply because it is an MMO.
For some odd reason, Human Beings find being negative much easier than being positive. I'd like to see what happens to the industry if players would just stop trying to find that "first time experience" again and again, and not bother with games they know (down deep, though usually not admitted) that will not satisfy them. That's what I do, but I am only 1 player among millions.
PS: Man... That took me longer to re-format than it did to write my response!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR