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ArcheAge is NOT pay to win
I've been seeing lots of threads and posts about how this game is P2W mainly because of the LP and the CS LP Potions.
This is not pay to win.
If you guys think this is P2W then you have never played some of the seriously play to win games. LIKE LEAGUE OF LEGENDS BECAUSE SKINS MEAN WINS
Examples:
Games with ridiculous upgrading systems like Perfect World. Less than 1% chance to succeed. On fail break your end-game weapon you got after 50 dungeons. Only protection for breaking/success increase? In the cash shop. Benefit: 10x the damage versus a F2P. Or better yet 25$ for a +1 refine. 100$ for a +5.
Games where you literally buy power. Again Perfect World, about 200$ for legendary pets (basically required for pvp). Atlantica Online, you can buy mercenaries that are way more powerful than end game characters. The only way to win tournaments, pvp, or anything.
First the 150$ Alpha:
Somehow this has become a point towards P2W/"Trion sucks." You choose to pay the 150$ so you get to play the game a couple months earlier. "But 150$ is a disgustingly large amount of money for alpha." Then don't pay it. No advantages here.
LP/LP regen/LP Pots:
This gated system, while annoying, is not anywhere close to P2W. It's faster but you still get the same items in the end. Even then it's not THAT much faster. (2x, 3x faster even is fine. Games mentioned above have systems that you can grind towards also, but it's on the level of 1 day vs 1 year for full gear)
"If I subscribe I shouldn't need to have my LP capped"
This is actually closer to P2W. But it still remains that the buyer will still have to actually play the game to make use of that LP. (Although the viability of this is a different discussion, I support making LP uncapped for personal, selfish reasons)
Last note:
You can buy CS stuff with in-game gold, is not really a valid argument against P2W. It's all about the amount of time it would take to make that much gold. If a buyer can buy all the items (read gear) that would take a grinder a month to grind in the matter of seconds, it's still fairly P2W. But what you're paying for is basically 2x the speed, which is still reasonable. Hell, that's what being a subscriber basically is. And even then you still have to actually go and play the game to get the mats the extra LP got you.
Conclusion:
ArcheAge is nowhere near P2W.
Comments
Does having Patron (which requires paying) give you MORE? Its Pay to Win.
Does having Patron allow you to have land and farms? its pay to win.
LP = more crafting = more items to sell and materials to do trade runs.
Housing is something you can only have if you pay and farms = more materials again.
P2W = gaining more, faster or gaining something you cannot get without paying.
Just because you like Archeage (and I love the Japanese version BTW) does not mean all definitions can be tossed aside. The game is what it is and right now, its P2W.
This is what happens when companies go F2P in a half-assed way.
Yes but I think the whole (Labor Points) system needs to be completely removed from the game as other game shave tried this and Failed.
. Age OF Wushu
. Black Gold
Both these games fail, instead they need to make the game based around full sand-box get rid Labor Points all together put an optional (Pay 2 Play) Subscription service, keep it similar to GW2, no Labor Points advantages and such just get rid of the system all together.
I think Arche Age will be a failure it might start out just as popular as GW2 did but then the population will decline.
There is Pay 2 Win, but then there is Pay 2 Enjoy, Pay to Advance or grind your character off grinding all day long to get somewhere.
Does paying money allow you to do things you cannot without paying?
Does paying money give you an advantage over those who do not?
Does someone paying $100 a month get more then someone paying $15 a month?
If you answer yes to any of those, you have a p2w game. True f2p games are like LoL and Path of Exile where it is almost purly cosmetic things. The problem is that model is not sustainable really, at least not to the level they want. And you cannot market this. Archeage the worlds best Pay to Win sandbox out there. BUY YOUR WAY TO FAME AND FORTUNE!!!!
In archeage you cannot even play half the game without the patron (Sub) status. The problem is that lockout + the fact you have a cash shop on top of that. You basically have a sub game with a cash shop selling items that will progress you above and beyond those who do not pay. That is a blatent P2W model.
Archeage is a great game (Well not as much as the orriginal version) but even with the crap they added in 1.1 and 1.2 it is still good. But the payment model will turn many many ppl away. The problem is the game is designed to force you into the cash shop to buy things. The cash shop should be there as a bonus. Not a requirement.
Pay to win is having an unfair advantage against someone who doesnt pay. That is not the case. You can pay, with in game gold, people to use their LP for you = 0 dollars spent.
So someone with $0 has available to them the same that someone who pays has.
1. You MUST be a patron to own land.
2. Being able to eventually get something without paying does not remove the P2W factor because PAYING means you get it with no effort.
3. PAYING for patron status gets me INSTANT land ownership rights AND more LP and thus, its an unfair advantage.
So again, read the part of my own quote that I left for you.
Getting things a little faster doesn't make it pay to win. Pay to win is where you either have access to power/things F2P players can't possibly get, or can only get after spending significant more time. I'm talking months compared to seconds. 2x faster isn't that bad. Even more so when you consider that you still have to play the game to take advantage of the LP. With how you define pay to win, literally every single game would be pay to win. Give me a game I will show you why it is with this definition. (Wildstar, GW2, WoW, anything)
I'm really starting to see why people hate the f2p "culture" so much. The idea that if you can't do everything for free means it's p2w is just ridiculous but here they are talking like an expert. A sub is now p2w ...../facepalm Are games now only allowed to offer cosmetics in a sub ?
I don't think warren buffet or bill gates have anything to worry about from this generation of gamers. The welfare office might be a bit concerned though.
Owning land doesnt equal pay to win. If you want land you can pay the sub. Does not equal pay to win and you can still make money and get all the items you want without it, besides a house.
You havent seen the Cash shop so you dont know what is in it.
2. Is not an unfair advantage. Spending more time in a game does not mean you are less of a player.
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You are right again ....just like in real life it's p2w and only someone with nothing owned claims the best things in life are free
+100 you hit the nail right on the head ....free to play servers can be called the bush leagues or the minors
Use LP pots or subscribe... It's both a convenient purchase to speed up the LP regen over playing totally free. And as OP said, it's only a 2x regen compared to a free player, and that does not really make it Pay2Win.
On the cash shop. It just got implemented in the game and so far I can't see a single Pay2Win item in it. There are a few items behind the subscription 'wall' and none of those are game breaking either, just an other couple of convenient items.
Only thing that might be considered game breaking are those 2 special mounts in the cash shop and the special armor. The run faster than their normal counterpart (though one special horse you can buy on Mirage Isle), and the armor is not overly protective for the mounts (level 20 minimum).
what the industry is trying to do is to bring in players who would normally shy away from playing at a $15 a month price point.
That seems fair enough, how that is done however should be clear cut and easy to follow.
Making more than $15 a month off of hard core players is also fair (imo) HOWEVER, the game content has to be worth it.
the farming, housing system is a bit for shit in archeage honesty, the ships though look like its a sweet system
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I think AA was actually to be setup as a full subscription MMO from the start, where XLgames later changed to Free2Play with subscription as optional giving some benefits...
I don't think I'd play on a 100% sub server though. Just look at how Alpha is now. All farm land is taken and new players can't place a farm anywhere (not even the small 8x8 ones). This is because each & every player in alpha is a subscription player.
I agree with this assessment. P2W for me has always been using real life cash to buy any in game advantage. Anything beyond cosmetics in a cash shop is a form of P2W in my opinion. Even Rift, as much as I love it and as free as it has, sells raid gear in the cash shop. Granted it's lower tier raid gear, but it's still there.
Any advantage over another player bought for real life cash to me will always be P2W, even if it is obtainable in game.
P2W is a subjective term, and this conversation has been had ad nauseam, as each person defines P2W differently. This topic is a moot point.
What Trion should really do is make it sub based with no restrictions or cash shop, and then have F2P only servers where they can milk the whales and it doesn't affect those of us who would rather play a game on even footing.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
The part that only Patrons can own land is necessary though. People on the Alpha servers already take advantage of the fact you can have four characters on a server and use them to grab up a bunch of land. All the plots are already taken. Imagine if the infinite number of free accounts could come in and consume all the land in an instant. The only other way around that would be to only allow free accounts to own land if they buy tax slips from the cash shop. But at that point they might as well just sign up for Patron status.
This ^^^
Man...I wish the new generation of f2p would go to a different genre. I want my simple sub games back that don't suck and never heard of a cash shop.
~I am Many~
Exactly I dont see how people think that any game that you spend money on is P2W. The gaming community defines P2W as a game that you pay for an unfair advantage that regular players can not get.
Too many people trying to make up whatever they want to bash this game.
imo only a true idiot could actually hype that shit AGAIN, after they did a beta in asia, and russia, sold it in BOTH countries and now do the same shit again.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
By your own admission in that last quote, AA falls into the category of P2W though, so that post is really confusing. Also, as I said in an earlier post, there is no concrete definition of P2W and there never has been.
I do not consider a sub fee as paying to win, but if anything beyond cosmetics are offered in a cash shop, the game falls into the P2W category.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
No one here is refuting this nor does it take away from the game being what it is. P2W.
If a game decides to go F2P it has two choices. Be F2P or be P2W.
In other words, if you are going to do something, do it, don't be half-assed about it unless you want the crap label that comes with it.
Archeage never should have gone F2P, the game was great as it was before 1.0 and the reason for going F2P baffled a lot of Asian players because the changes don't make sense.
It wasn't popular in Korea, a place that loves F2P games, but they made the F2P changes for the western market, a place where F2P is debatable. Then, to make it F2P, they made changes hated in Asia.......and not exactly fitting the western market either and in a way that near cripples one of the most loved aspects of the game, crafting and land ownership!
It was almost as if someone had a stupid bat and beat everyone at XLGames with it.