Originally posted by YoungCaesar I love this thread logic, FFA pvp games can only survive if carebears stay, but why would carebears play a FFA pvp game in the first place?
if you look through the thread you will find plenty of people who dont pvp much or at all but still play eve, a FFA PVP game. It's a good game so people play it, and the benefits to the game of having (sort of) ffa, namely the economy being in a constant state of needing crafted goods, overrides the drawback of having a gank chance when undocked.
and again, I didnt touch pvp in eve from 2007 til i would say 2010 and didnt get ganked once during thosde 3 years. only got pvp'd once in that time from a war target.
Because there are few to none PvE mmorpg's being made and most games are boring clones narrowing down PvE options to nill. I'll try a pretty PvP mmo because I simply have no where else to go. But I wont stay and I sure as fuck wont like it.
give the deer a gun, THEN go hunt it. That is a real sport
Do you have any idea how retarded that statement sounds?
Hunters go out in groups. Usually takes a group to take out one deer....if they are lucky. Because the deer has better sences...can smell them, can hear them, spot and react 10x faster than the hunter can. You give that deer a gun and the brains to use it, it could easily take out ten hunters before the hunters even knew there was a deer around.
How does that refer to this topic anyway? Are you saying that the PvPers are not as skilled as the PvE group, so it requires more of gankers in a group to take out one lowly PvE player?
EVE works because if you die you lose your stuff period no exceptions. It doesn't matter if your killed by a player or NPC guard everything you have on you is gone unless it's insured and even than that doesn't cover everything. Imagine the crying it would cause if in a fantasy game people who lost faction with a NPC group would lose all their equipped gear if killed by those NPC's.
Current fantasy open world PVP games give to much advantage to the ganker. There isn't a one of them that really makes a justice system worth it's name.
Because there are few to none PvE mmorpg's being made and most games are boring clones narrowing down PvE options to nill. I'll try a pretty PvP mmo because I simply have no where else to go. But I wont stay and I sure as fuck wont like it.
I think you bring up the main issue. Those "PvPers" aren't looking for just pvp, they want to be griefing others and just generally screwing over others for no reason at all. To me, THIS is the huge issue with open world pvp. Without reason to behave it just becomes a griefing fest, those who have an advantage will use it to win every fight they can against those with no chance. Its not pvp at all, a 2 year old can do the stuff those "hardcore pvpers" try to push as being good.
Which is an amusing coincidence, since those "PvPers" who only play to ruin other people's time have the mentality of a 2 years old.
But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.
They also need to have somekind of part of the game and chance to gain wealth,problem is the game/community itself if its treats them like they were King Arthurs.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
I think you bring up the main issue. Those "PvPers" aren't looking for just pvp, they want to be griefing others and just generally screwing over others for no reason at all. To me, THIS is the huge issue with open world pvp. Without reason to behave it just becomes a griefing fest, those who have an advantage will use it to win every fight they can against those with no chance. Its not pvp at all, a 2 year old can do the stuff those "hardcore pvpers" try to push as being good.
Which is an amusing coincidence, since those "PvPers" who only play to ruin other people's time have the mentality of a 2 years old.
But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.
They also need to have somekind of part of the game and chance to gain wealth,problem is the game/community itself if its treats them like they were King Arthurs.
The problem they're afraid of wouldn't need a 'system'.
It works itself out and has in most every sandbox ffa game of note. I mean bad things happened in UO & EvE, but not the kind of 'high level ganking low level' they decry. Why? Because their only experience with open pvp has been in pve heavy games with pvp tacked on.
If you're a ruthless solo ganker, then armies find you and make your game time tough.
If you're a gank squad, there will be a bigger squad to hunt you guys down and make it harder for you to find people.
If you're alone and you lose a 1 v 1 fight, then you didn't get ganked. You lost a fight.
It's hard to explain the reality of a ffa sandbox game to people who only fear 'what ifs' and these crazy nonexistent scenarios in their heads.
Sure the games I keep referencing are old games that had a lack of pve content. That's what I like about this post; what if we had a strong pve environment and a good ffa sandbox in one modern game.
EvE's a great example of how the two can and do work together. But I don't really care about space travel personally, and if I'm running a ship I want a community on the ship. But how many people will log into a game and check sensors and systems in a militaristic fashion like real space travel would require?
If you're a ruthless solo ganker, then armies find you and make your game time tough.
If you're a gank squad, there will be a bigger squad to hunt you guys down and make it harder for you to find people.
If that were true, there would not be need for this discussion. The reality is that the in-game solutions are laughably inadequate and most of the time amount to barely a slap on the wrist. Heck, a lot of the time the 'punishment' is the equivalent to a parent punishing a kid by telling him to play video games and eat ice cream.
If a FFA PvP game actually had a meaningful punishment system then I would give it a try.
But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.
So? Video games are not books, movies and stories. Players are not true wackos .. they are just playing a game, and what is fun to read about is not fun if you are on the receiving end.
I think you bring up the main issue. Those "PvPers" aren't looking for just pvp, they want to be griefing others and just generally screwing over others for no reason at all. To me, THIS is the huge issue with open world pvp. Without reason to behave it just becomes a griefing fest, those who have an advantage will use it to win every fight they can against those with no chance. Its not pvp at all, a 2 year old can do the stuff those "hardcore pvpers" try to push as being good.
Which is an amusing coincidence, since those "PvPers" who only play to ruin other people's time have the mentality of a 2 years old.
But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.
They also need to have somekind of part of the game and chance to gain wealth,problem is the game/community itself if its treats them like they were King Arthurs.
Yes, but in all those fantasy worlds, books, movies, games, etc... they have the same risk than anyone else to be defeated, and to die.
The psychopaths in MMORPGs have zero risk, they just respawn and do it again.
BIG (HUGE) difference.
Of course they have risk and that risk is other players,who dont buy their stuff anymore (ruined by auction house,fixed by flag which doesnt allow them to use auction house / or some NPC shops etc)
Other players will share them justice so hard they wont own any land (if theres land control or something similar in the first place)
No one will team with them (ruined by all kind of finders ,xserver stuff etc)
etc..
Its not that hard to make their life hard ,how it should be,but its impossible to do that in games like we have now.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.
So? Video games are not books, movies and stories. Players are not true wackos .. they are just playing a game, and what is fun to read about is not fun if you are on the receiving end.
i think you got it.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Yep, as already said many times in this and many other threads, a good PvP MMORPG needs a harsh justice system, and life as a criminal should be a major pain, very difficult, with impossibility to approach any civilized town without being nuked by guards too.
I can see a cool system where bandits have to bank in some self-made town or npc bandit town that has only the supplies that others bring into it. I can see a partnership forming with the reds and a random carebear where the latter transports supplies from the civilized towns. As I've said before, I wish CCP Games (Eve) would make a fantasy game. Who am I kidding, no partnership would form; the red player would just roll a carebear alt
Originally posted by alyndale I think for the sake of this truly heartfelt post in thread that was started by a fan of mmo's that somehow have spun out of control with kill ip madness. I applaud the choice of Tracy Chapman's masterful music to bolster an important issue in today's mmo genre. Thank you Torgrim and a standing O from me to greenreen!I have yet to see a truly large-scale successful pvp-centric mmo. Now, I'm sure one will come. That will be an experience where justice has an inkling of chance to control what, now, is nothing but a gankfest. I've played Lineage 2. That is emotion personified and stress infinitely felt day by day. I even returned to reintroduce myself to one of the most hauntingly beautiful mmo soundtracks in existence. It is arguably still one of the best open world pvp mmo's to have survived 10+ years. My heart was stolen many times there. Yes, and I suppose the madness took me for a time because I found myself hunting down those "animals" that just gave up on their characters and went "purma-red".Outside of Dion one June afternoon, I had a chance to speak to one of the infamous "reds". He was just sitting there in the fields, but apparently no one around that area came near but me. My heart was racing as if this was a real-life encounter and I was going to exact revenge.Bloodly, mindless killing for the sake of low level players. I hit him and he didn't fight back nor did he run, Something stopped me at that moment. I stopped and asked him why he ruined his character. He told me. I shall not go into the details of what he told me, but I can tell you that his story wasn't too different from several infamous characters that roamed dungeons and fields of old Gustin server. I would have to say that some of these players simply project a frustrating reality they seem to have difficulties dealing with in real life.Somehow Gary Jules, "Mad World" comes to mind here. It was so sad. I came across no less than half a dozen individuals with very similar stories; Anger lived out in two worlds...emptiness. "When people run in cirlcles it's a very, very mad world..." I left L 2 after three straight years and 7 days a week grinding, dying, cursing the ganks, whooping it up when my alliance kicked ass and took our first castle, weeping inside when one of my first online fighting friends left because she couldn't take the daily shit, and finally saying good-bye because I had to fight the worst ganker in the history of mankind, cancer. I left L 2 and went to WoW. The world keeps on spinning, but there are people out there that have troubles they show it in the way they attempt to express themselves..we often dislike them--maybe we should stop, "sit and listen"I agree that a truly balanced mmo contains both pve and pvp elements. There needs to be a way to accept both and feel that those that pvp understands that there are consequences. I suppose we need to stick by a justified and solid set of consequences when those angry, silly, and mindless gankers try to hand their bad day to us.I suppose I'm an old grizzly bear that actually cares. I look to Archeage and marvel at it's beauty and the possibilities. I wonder however, if the type of "in your face" pvp is going to sink this ship before it leaves it's moorings. We shall see...Alyn
Interesting post, Alyn. Thanks for sharing.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
If you're a ruthless solo ganker, then armies find you and make your game time tough.
If you're a gank squad, there will be a bigger squad to hunt you guys down and make it harder for you to find people.
If that were true, there would not be need for this discussion. The reality is that the in-game solutions are laughably inadequate and most of the time amount to barely a slap on the wrist. Heck, a lot of the time the 'punishment' is the equivalent to a parent punishing a kid by telling him to play video games and eat ice cream.
If a FFA PvP game actually had a meaningful punishment system then I would give it a try.
It is true. There's only one game with it now, but that's just due to the other ones getting super dated graphically.
EvE's very real.
It exists.
The way players regulate how all aspects of the game is played is a bit much for new comers to grasp, but that's not the game's fault.
The problem isn't gankers, it's people making things up.
If you're a ruthless solo ganker, then armies find you and make your game time tough.
If you're a gank squad, there will be a bigger squad to hunt you guys down and make it harder for you to find people.
If that were true, there would not be need for this discussion. The reality is that the in-game solutions are laughably inadequate and most of the time amount to barely a slap on the wrist. Heck, a lot of the time the 'punishment' is the equivalent to a parent punishing a kid by telling him to play video games and eat ice cream.
If a FFA PvP game actually had a meaningful punishment system then I would give it a try.
It is true. There's only one game with it now, but that's just due to the other ones getting super dated graphically.
EvE's very real.
It exists.
The way players regulate how all aspects of the game is played is a bit much for new comers to grasp, but that's not the game's fault.
The problem isn't gankers, it's people making things up.
I played EVE at multiple points over its existence and I find the punishment system to be laughable. It might work on the meta scales of alliances and sov ownership but it does little for the casual players. A dedicated ganker cannot really be seriously affected by any of the punishment systems in the game since they are so easy to work around. Heck, It's a game where suicide ganking is a well established method for players to make money.
I think you bring up the main issue. Those "PvPers" aren't looking for just pvp, they want to be griefing others and just generally screwing over others for no reason at all. To me, THIS is the huge issue with open world pvp. Without reason to behave it just becomes a griefing fest, those who have an advantage will use it to win every fight they can against those with no chance. Its not pvp at all, a 2 year old can do the stuff those "hardcore pvpers" try to push as being good.
Which is an amusing coincidence, since those "PvPers" who only play to ruin other people's time have the mentality of a 2 years old.
But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.
They also need to have somekind of part of the game and chance to gain wealth,problem is the game/community itself if its treats them like they were King Arthurs.
The problem they're afraid of wouldn't need a 'system'.
It works itself out and has in most every sandbox ffa game of note. I mean bad things happened in UO & EvE, but not the kind of 'high level ganking low level' they decry. Why? Because their only experience with open pvp has been in pve heavy games with pvp tacked on.
If you're a ruthless solo ganker, then armies find you and make your game time tough.
If you're a gank squad, there will be a bigger squad to hunt you guys down and make it harder for you to find people.
If you're alone and you lose a 1 v 1 fight, then you didn't get ganked. You lost a fight.
It's hard to explain the reality of a ffa sandbox game to people who only fear 'what ifs' and these crazy nonexistent scenarios in their heads.
Sure the games I keep referencing are old games that had a lack of pve content. That's what I like about this post; what if we had a strong pve environment and a good ffa sandbox in one modern game.
EvE's a great example of how the two can and do work together. But I don't really care about space travel personally, and if I'm running a ship I want a community on the ship. But how many people will log into a game and check sensors and systems in a militaristic fashion like real space travel would require?
I mean I would.
Haa,i like how you roll.
Theres a game which does this nicely and it does not even lack PvE content(their biggest PvE expansion gets 8.6 on Metacritic) ,theres flagging system and players can PvP even inside istances/dungeons but the catch is the land owned by players, which are FFA,so if someone attacks my land then I can still choose do I want to risk my life and reputation and defend my land or vice versa and get some reputation + other benefits conquering some outlaws /enemies.
Which leads to even bigger scenarios,helping others etc politics and such.
Sure its old game but still running and ruined by all kind of cash shops but they have FFA and sandbox and PVE game in one game and it actually works.
Edit:And why i like flagging system,if i see some master standing in place in pure FFA game ,theres no way saying what he is thinking if i dont know who he is,sure if his name is XXxmegakillxXX i will attack him instantly just to make sure but if there was a flagging system and he is red,its closer to paper and pen roleplaying and he is actually telling to me that he is angry or nuts.
"if someone wants my land they can take it from my cold ,dead hands"
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Originally posted by Torik I played EVE at multiple points over its existence and I find the punishment system to be laughable. It might work on the meta scales of alliances and sov ownership but it does little for the casual players. A dedicated ganker cannot really be seriously affected by any of the punishment systems in the game since they are so easy to work around. Heck, It's a game where suicide ganking is a well established method for players to make money.
That was my experience as well. Maybe in high space you're safe near the jump gates; don't know since I don't know how tough all those patrol vessels are. But in low sec you are definitely not safe. I got pulverized by a 10.0 pirate all the while some security tower was firing on it. Not sure if I remember the 10.0 part right; but basically he had as bad a reputation as one could get. Though I admit to being in awe as his torpedos exploded against the hull of my ship. But he didn't pod me.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
A "carebear" is less likely to pick up and play Eve than someone who likes both PvE and PvP content, but primarily engages in PvE content.
Erm, you haven't played EVE then because people there complain about carebears all the time
If player's concern is primarily crafting over shooting other players, he is a crafter.
But if your argument does not hold and support your stance, invent a new term!
"He is not a crafter, he is a "casual PVPer""!
And voila, the game is suddenly full of PVPers!
Same story:
"The game is a themepark."
"No no, it it's a sandpark! It has got sandbox features!, etc."
I haven't played Eve. That's never stopped me from commenting on a game before though, I don't see why it would now. :-)
From the point of view of those "crafters", the PvP in the game is not a disincentive to play. They don't mind or are willing to tolerate the PvP in Eve in order to play the PvE content that they enjoy. A "carebear" player from, say, World of Warcraft isn't going to tolerate the PvP in Eve under any circumstances. It is a disincentive to play. Both groups of players are "casual", not "hard core". To one group of players PvP is a disincentive to play, to the other group it is not.
What about the people who run a mining ship, but who don't craft? Are they then, "Miners"? And the people who go out to PvP, mine and also craft? Would you call them "PvP Crafting Miners" or "Crafting Mining PvP Players"? "Casual PvP Players" covers the bases without getting into too much detail. It's a descriptive term for a group of players.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Because there are few to none PvE mmorpg's being made and most games are boring clones narrowing down PvE options to nill. I'll try a pretty PvP mmo because I simply have no where else to go. But I wont stay and I sure as fuck wont like it.
mmorpg is your only entertainment?
No where else to go mmorpg wise. Someone threw a wii controller thru my tv so console games are off for now, lolz. I went thru surgery two weeks ago so lifting weights is off. I'm back to reading all my favorite novel series over again and anything Forgotten Realms that I haven't yet read. I want to try ArcheAge but I hate world PvP. I'm more of a Castle Wars pvp'er if I'm anything pvp at all. I can kick ass in arenas but I just find pvp boring - it has no story/reasoning and it takes up to much of the devs talents that could have been used somewhere better. Not to mention world pvp gets my archer/rogue/thief chars nerfed to death for balance complaints.
Cheaters, exploiters, hackers, gankers and griefers these make up the majority of people who promote and want PKing in games, period. Notice I said majority not minority? That's because there is a small audience very small amount of honest players who want PvP in games.
Why do you think most FFA PvP games are never that successful. Don't even state Darkfall that's a pretty generic game with a small subscriber base.
What the majority of people want are more co-op games that play out like Borderlands in concept or Left 4 Dead. Why do you think these IP's out sell and out last any FFA PvP game on the market. I'm only stating facts here debating it only proves your ignorance. I'm also not talking about or including games that have PvP but are not FFA.
I think the OP has a point but it goes further. What a MMO needs to survive as a MASSIVE game is DIVERSITY
Why?
Because a MMO needs players to stick around, even when the game isn't at its best for YOU, the player, right now yet you stay because THEY are your friends and you want to game with them. And if THEY stay, YOU stay. If THEY leave, you leave.
If THEY were never in the game in the first place... well bye bye game, it was... yeah okay... bye now.
How many kept playing WoW for the sake of the guild when the game on its own would have no longer been appealing enough?
Think of say a sports club, I as a child was a member of a club and one of the kids I swam with competed in the Olympics... I mostly goofed around. Some were there because more girls then boys swim. Me? Well lets just say I was a late bloomer. Between endless training for more speed and kissing girls in the lockers, I trained for half an hour and then someone activated the water slide and that was it.
In MMO's, you need the guild leader who has fun setting up events. You need to crafter who really enjoys crafting a complete set "sorry have no materials" for noob #34242. You need a good healer and a standby tacticiian who when he logs in can finally help the lesser players in the guild complete the last boss of a raid. And you need to grunts who are willing to log in and do the same fight over and over again so the leaders can learn and newbies get a chance to complete old content.
You need people to maintain the website, people to harvest the resources for the crafters for those who mysteriously never have any resources or money, people to pay for the guild housing etc etc.
You need a community or else all you have is a CS clan. A PvP clan of prima donna's who all want to be number one. That is what Counter Strike is about, it is a great game but it is NOT a MMO.
Didn't knew my drunk rambling would create a 21 pages discussion, really fun reading, great ideas and thoughts on the matter.
This is why I'd love to remove anonymity from internet.
So I could set proper expectations upfront, when dealing with drunkards, druggies or otherwise dmged goods.
Much easier to deal with it irl.
And this is why I think anonymity is absolutely essential. You imply that a 21 pages thread started in a drunken, drugged or otherwise damaged state is something bad per se. In fact it doesn't matter. It may be good or bad regardless of the OP's condition. You can find out by yourself without risking anything even if you miss that kind of information.
The risks of loosing anonymity on the other hand aren't too low either. So, better be careful with your wishes .....
Comments
Because there are few to none PvE mmorpg's being made and most games are boring clones narrowing down PvE options to nill. I'll try a pretty PvP mmo because I simply have no where else to go. But I wont stay and I sure as fuck wont like it.
Do you have any idea how retarded that statement sounds?
Hunters go out in groups. Usually takes a group to take out one deer....if they are lucky. Because the deer has better sences...can smell them, can hear them, spot and react 10x faster than the hunter can. You give that deer a gun and the brains to use it, it could easily take out ten hunters before the hunters even knew there was a deer around.
How does that refer to this topic anyway? Are you saying that the PvPers are not as skilled as the PvE group, so it requires more of gankers in a group to take out one lowly PvE player?
EVE works because if you die you lose your stuff period no exceptions. It doesn't matter if your killed by a player or NPC guard everything you have on you is gone unless it's insured and even than that doesn't cover everything. Imagine the crying it would cause if in a fantasy game people who lost faction with a NPC group would lose all their equipped gear if killed by those NPC's.
Current fantasy open world PVP games give to much advantage to the ganker. There isn't a one of them that really makes a justice system worth it's name.
mmorpg is your only entertainment?
But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.
They also need to have somekind of part of the game and chance to gain wealth,problem is the game/community itself if its treats them like they were King Arthurs.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
The problem they're afraid of wouldn't need a 'system'.
It works itself out and has in most every sandbox ffa game of note. I mean bad things happened in UO & EvE, but not the kind of 'high level ganking low level' they decry. Why? Because their only experience with open pvp has been in pve heavy games with pvp tacked on.
If you're a ruthless solo ganker, then armies find you and make your game time tough.
If you're a gank squad, there will be a bigger squad to hunt you guys down and make it harder for you to find people.
If you're alone and you lose a 1 v 1 fight, then you didn't get ganked. You lost a fight.
It's hard to explain the reality of a ffa sandbox game to people who only fear 'what ifs' and these crazy nonexistent scenarios in their heads.
Sure the games I keep referencing are old games that had a lack of pve content. That's what I like about this post; what if we had a strong pve environment and a good ffa sandbox in one modern game.
EvE's a great example of how the two can and do work together. But I don't really care about space travel personally, and if I'm running a ship I want a community on the ship. But how many people will log into a game and check sensors and systems in a militaristic fashion like real space travel would require?
I mean I would.
a yo ho ho
If that were true, there would not be need for this discussion. The reality is that the in-game solutions are laughably inadequate and most of the time amount to barely a slap on the wrist. Heck, a lot of the time the 'punishment' is the equivalent to a parent punishing a kid by telling him to play video games and eat ice cream.
If a FFA PvP game actually had a meaningful punishment system then I would give it a try.
So? Video games are not books, movies and stories. Players are not true wackos .. they are just playing a game, and what is fun to read about is not fun if you are on the receiving end.
Of course they have risk and that risk is other players,who dont buy their stuff anymore (ruined by auction house,fixed by flag which doesnt allow them to use auction house / or some NPC shops etc)
Other players will share them justice so hard they wont own any land (if theres land control or something similar in the first place)
No one will team with them (ruined by all kind of finders ,xserver stuff etc)
etc..
Its not that hard to make their life hard ,how it should be,but its impossible to do that in games like we have now.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
i think you got it.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
I can see a cool system where bandits have to bank in some self-made town or npc bandit town that has only the supplies that others bring into it. I can see a partnership forming with the reds and a random carebear where the latter transports supplies from the civilized towns. As I've said before, I wish CCP Games (Eve) would make a fantasy game. Who am I kidding, no partnership would form; the red player would just roll a carebear alt
Interesting post, Alyn. Thanks for sharing.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
It is true. There's only one game with it now, but that's just due to the other ones getting super dated graphically.
EvE's very real.
It exists.
The way players regulate how all aspects of the game is played is a bit much for new comers to grasp, but that's not the game's fault.
The problem isn't gankers, it's people making things up.
a yo ho ho
I played EVE at multiple points over its existence and I find the punishment system to be laughable. It might work on the meta scales of alliances and sov ownership but it does little for the casual players. A dedicated ganker cannot really be seriously affected by any of the punishment systems in the game since they are so easy to work around. Heck, It's a game where suicide ganking is a well established method for players to make money.
Didn't knew my drunk rambling would create a 21 pages discussion, really fun reading, great ideas and thoughts on the matter.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Haa,i like how you roll.
Theres a game which does this nicely and it does not even lack PvE content(their biggest PvE expansion gets 8.6 on Metacritic) ,theres flagging system and players can PvP even inside istances/dungeons but the catch is the land owned by players, which are FFA,so if someone attacks my land then I can still choose do I want to risk my life and reputation and defend my land or vice versa and get some reputation + other benefits conquering some outlaws /enemies.
Which leads to even bigger scenarios,helping others etc politics and such.
Sure its old game but still running and ruined by all kind of cash shops but they have FFA and sandbox and PVE game in one game and it actually works.
Edit:And why i like flagging system,if i see some master standing in place in pure FFA game ,theres no way saying what he is thinking if i dont know who he is,sure if his name is XXxmegakillxXX i will attack him instantly just to make sure but if there was a flagging system and he is red,its closer to paper and pen roleplaying and he is actually telling to me that he is angry or nuts.
"if someone wants my land they can take it from my cold ,dead hands"
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
That was my experience as well. Maybe in high space you're safe near the jump gates; don't know since I don't know how tough all those patrol vessels are. But in low sec you are definitely not safe. I got pulverized by a 10.0 pirate all the while some security tower was firing on it. Not sure if I remember the 10.0 part right; but basically he had as bad a reputation as one could get. Though I admit to being in awe as his torpedos exploded against the hull of my ship. But he didn't pod me.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I haven't played Eve. That's never stopped me from commenting on a game before though, I don't see why it would now. :-)
From the point of view of those "crafters", the PvP in the game is not a disincentive to play. They don't mind or are willing to tolerate the PvP in Eve in order to play the PvE content that they enjoy. A "carebear" player from, say, World of Warcraft isn't going to tolerate the PvP in Eve under any circumstances. It is a disincentive to play. Both groups of players are "casual", not "hard core". To one group of players PvP is a disincentive to play, to the other group it is not.
What about the people who run a mining ship, but who don't craft? Are they then, "Miners"? And the people who go out to PvP, mine and also craft? Would you call them "PvP Crafting Miners" or "Crafting Mining PvP Players"? "Casual PvP Players" covers the bases without getting into too much detail. It's a descriptive term for a group of players.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
This is why I'd love to remove anonymity from internet.
So I could set proper expectations upfront, when dealing with drunkards, druggies or otherwise dmged goods.
Much easier to deal with it irl.
No where else to go mmorpg wise. Someone threw a wii controller thru my tv so console games are off for now, lolz. I went thru surgery two weeks ago so lifting weights is off. I'm back to reading all my favorite novel series over again and anything Forgotten Realms that I haven't yet read. I want to try ArcheAge but I hate world PvP. I'm more of a Castle Wars pvp'er if I'm anything pvp at all. I can kick ass in arenas but I just find pvp boring - it has no story/reasoning and it takes up to much of the devs talents that could have been used somewhere better. Not to mention world pvp gets my archer/rogue/thief chars nerfed to death for balance complaints.
Cheaters, exploiters, hackers, gankers and griefers these make up the majority of people who promote and want PKing in games, period. Notice I said majority not minority? That's because there is a small audience very small amount of honest players who want PvP in games.
Why do you think most FFA PvP games are never that successful. Don't even state Darkfall that's a pretty generic game with a small subscriber base.
What the majority of people want are more co-op games that play out like Borderlands in concept or Left 4 Dead. Why do you think these IP's out sell and out last any FFA PvP game on the market. I'm only stating facts here debating it only proves your ignorance. I'm also not talking about or including games that have PvP but are not FFA.
I think the OP has a point but it goes further. What a MMO needs to survive as a MASSIVE game is DIVERSITY
Why?
Because a MMO needs players to stick around, even when the game isn't at its best for YOU, the player, right now yet you stay because THEY are your friends and you want to game with them. And if THEY stay, YOU stay. If THEY leave, you leave.
If THEY were never in the game in the first place... well bye bye game, it was... yeah okay... bye now.
How many kept playing WoW for the sake of the guild when the game on its own would have no longer been appealing enough?
Think of say a sports club, I as a child was a member of a club and one of the kids I swam with competed in the Olympics... I mostly goofed around. Some were there because more girls then boys swim. Me? Well lets just say I was a late bloomer. Between endless training for more speed and kissing girls in the lockers, I trained for half an hour and then someone activated the water slide and that was it.
In MMO's, you need the guild leader who has fun setting up events. You need to crafter who really enjoys crafting a complete set "sorry have no materials" for noob #34242. You need a good healer and a standby tacticiian who when he logs in can finally help the lesser players in the guild complete the last boss of a raid. And you need to grunts who are willing to log in and do the same fight over and over again so the leaders can learn and newbies get a chance to complete old content.
You need people to maintain the website, people to harvest the resources for the crafters for those who mysteriously never have any resources or money, people to pay for the guild housing etc etc.
You need a community or else all you have is a CS clan. A PvP clan of prima donna's who all want to be number one. That is what Counter Strike is about, it is a great game but it is NOT a MMO.
And this is why I think anonymity is absolutely essential. You imply that a 21 pages thread started in a drunken, drugged or otherwise damaged state is something bad per se. In fact it doesn't matter. It may be good or bad regardless of the OP's condition. You can find out by yourself without risking anything even if you miss that kind of information.
The risks of loosing anonymity on the other hand aren't too low either. So, better be careful with your wishes .....