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New PvP Ruleset is in. Opinions?
Arremus
Member Posts: 656
(Ok... let's try for the thir-.. four-... fifth time.. god these forums &*($ing suck haha)
Link to Thoreau's thread in General
I'm suprised there isn't a 5 page thread debating this already.
The PvP rules are in, and I got to say, at first glance, I definitely reckon I'll be rolling a character to give it a try.
A few of my concerns (level cap on ganking for one) seem to be addressed well, and the process itself seems to be well thought out.
Looking like it could be a very fun distraction.
What's people's opinion on the coming PvP now that you've read the rules? (ie If you're just a flameboi, f**k off)
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush.
Oh. My. God.
Comments
Maybe I missed something (most likely), but what happens if you engage someone that just finished off it's oppenent and has less then 50% health? Will this result in a dishonorable kill? I can see this happening in large scale battles.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Disclaimer: I don't currently play EQ2.
What happens if you use an AOE? Why should that incur a dishonorable kill?
I can understand that this is an attempt to prevent griefing, but in large battles people aren't going to either: 1. take the time to wonder if they're the first person attacking, and/or 2. allow an oppenent to fully heal.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I will definitely be rolling a new character for the server. The rules sound pretty good to me. There seems to be alot of interest in it, so I imagine that the servers are going to be pretty populated which is good for PvP. As a matter of fact I was reading that some fairly big guilds from other games coming to the EQ 2 PvP servers.
The whole addition of PvP servers along with the upcoming class changes where they are doing away with the archtype system has me pretty excited about EQ 2 in general. I always thought it was a good game but I am really liking how the game is coming along. The whole combat revamp was also very good.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Key phrase: large battles ^_^
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
The kill system:
Honorable Kills: Any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged while the target had greater than 80% health. The first group or player that engaged will receive experience, status, and faction.
Neutral Kills: Any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged while the target had greater than 50% health. Neutral kills result in moderate faction gain, but do not reward experience or status.
Dishonorable Kills: Any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged while the target had less than 50% health. Dishonorable kills result in a loss of faction with both your alignment and the opposing alignment. Losing enough faction will cause you to fall out of favor with your alignment, and will restrict or remove any access to the rewards system.
We'll have to take the good with the bad really, I guess.
If you're grouped (and I pressume we'll Raid up so that we can attack other group's targets and not have to worry about their HP %) I don't think the problem of them being under 50% will be too much of an issue. I don't *think*.
I mean, if we come across a duo fighting a duo and our guys are at 10% HP and the enemy are at 45%, if we step in and help our brethren, do we get a dishonorable kill?
Issues like that I'm not sure about, could be nasty..
All in all, it's going to be a vastly different 'world' and about freakin' time I say.
Still a month or more away though sadly.
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush.
Oh. My. God.
The more I think about the 'Dishonorable Kill' definition doesn't make a lot of sense. Say you come across a guild mate that was just killed and the assailant is found below 50% health. What's dishonorable about exacting revenge in that instance? You're defending your not just your guild, but your faction.
'Dishonorable Kill' shouldn't be based on health imo. I imagine that SOE will change that in the near future.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Hello.
I havent played EQ2 yet, i might give it a try. But i wonder some things about all the pvp stuff.
What happens when you die? You got teleported or something? Do you lose experience? Can your dead body be looted?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A online gamer who has only dabbled in EQII here, but hardcore Dark Ages of Camelot where PVP is handled very well. For those who don't want to PVP, stay out of the PVP areas.
I have been looking for some indication that EQII is going to offer PVP areas (no, arenas do not count) where one can got to pillage and have fun, like castle siege (again see DAoC) and yet allow a player, namely me to do non PVP stuff like questing and crafting (which EQII has an excellent reputation).
There is no such thing as a dishonorable kill, one person's villan is another person's hero. If I am involved with a castle siege, and I am the only rezzer in the seiging party, how would there be any dis-honor in stopping the attack by killing the one person who can rez dead opponents. In PVP, non mano a mano, but group/large grp melees, tactics involve killing key players, and if it means that killing a person with 5% health who is the only rezzer, ie turning the tide of the battle to my side's favor, gank away.
I will agree that ganking a lowbie is dishonorable, but applying a bounty system reward might be good. If my player is ganking greys in some lowbie area of the PVP area, a bounty on killing me could be announce whereby the person who kills me first gets extra xp/gold/special reward could be announced. Somewhat like the first Jedi knight in SWG got as a reward for being first Jedi, a big ass bounty put out on her head.
Anyway, I am watching the upcoming PVP servers for EQII to see if I want to make the switch. It is fun, and in DAoC it is really fun, but the bottom line is you don't have to do PVP if you don't want to. I would be willing to be most people who are sticking with DAoC are like me, loving the PVP castle warfare of which I think DAoC does it best.
My two bits!!!
Cheers,
Nitemare
I didnt see it listed anywhere on creating multiple characters on the PvP server and allowing you to play either faction on the PvP server.
if you CAN create mutliple characters like normal EQ2 server AND play both factions, you could exploit the piss out of the honor point system
I would highly doubt they would allow this, but can someone confirm this who may know a bit about the EQ2 PvP system? (im not a current subscriber)
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
well its sound great.
now the poster 2 posts above me said something that made me worring about.
but to prevent this, they said u get EXP debt if u die in PVP.
also, nothing happen if u got some dishonor kills while most of your kills are honrable and neturals.
but it will hurt those who only gank for dishonorable kills.
i think the honor is more of a long term issue than a short term.
btw, Vengace have no honor in the action.
Wolfang, the lvl 50 Guardian of Splitpaw - EQ2.
SuRfer of Werner - Planetside
The simple fact you can't kill greys (8+ levels less then yours) is very lame. Just another feature added in EQII to make it less 'real'.
Ganking is part of pvp, period. I mean, they are basically copying WoW now in every move they make, might as well go all the way.
I was thinking about dusting off my game and giving it a try, until I read that.
If you don't like getting ganked, play on a non pvp server. How Sony and their 47 EQ2 subscriptions can't look at WoW's 5,000,000, not copy them outright, and lean on their own understanding which has gotten their game nowhere, is beyond me.
Fingers crossed they change that..
go away
ganking has no place in lvl based game.
u want to gank, get a group going and gank solo players same lvls as u are.
what is the point of letting high lvls farm low lvls ?
also, WoW copied from DAOC and EQ1 and all others PVP games.
go post there.
bah ganker, go play WoW, what are u doing here ?
Wolfang, the lvl 50 Guardian of Splitpaw - EQ2.
SuRfer of Werner - Planetside
Sounds very interesting....especially how they're incorporating taunts into the system. That sounds pretty cool if you ask me.
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
Locked encounters were taken out a while back.
Encounters are only locked now if you choose for them to be.
As for whether locking system is even in the PvP setup, who knows...
You're at 10% HP, your opponent is at 5%, you see 5 of his race steaming towards you.. Quickly lock the encounter so you can get a kill before they get to you (can't attack you).
But then he just unlocks it? Then you re-lock it?
I dunno, seems they'll probably leave locked combat out all together?
No idea though, time will tell.
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush.
Oh. My. God.
Awww... you guys won't be playing cos you can't race to max level, then avoid all combat your levels, sneak through to beginner zones and run around terrorising level 11 players because you enjoy destroying other people's enjoyment? Awww...
And a bounty system? Oh yeah.. that's a big deterrent.
"haha d00d lets go see how big a bounty we cn get on owr heds!! lol"
"oh man we runed our caracterz!"
"lol!! so? lets rerol!"
Fact is, EQ2 is not built for the kind of PvP PKer griefing you're looking for, so get over it quick and move along. Though you'll all try it anyways to see how much chance you have at ganking anyways I guess.
Save yourself the hassle of losing sleep over it, as you PKer types seem to do, and go read up on the Roma Victor and Darkfall forums/sites.
Oh, did I cast you all in one big stereotype? Wow.. seems very simular to your broad sweep carebear stereotype!
All I can say is mass death to bot farmers.. Oh revenge is going to be very, very sweet.
That raises an interesting point though. It's obviously going to be very dangerous and hard to mine ore, rocks etc from Thundering Steppes/Nek Forest upwards.
Consider how much things are going to cost on the market. I venture that PvP loot and instance loot is going to be a LOT more common place than crafted gear. Not that it matters are it's mostly better by default anyways.
But do you guys reckon we'll see much, if any, serious crafting on the PvP servers? If Ashen Roots sell for 40s now, how frickin much they going to sell for there? haha.
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush.
Oh. My. God.
"The Kill List: Honorably killing another player will place them on a list tied to your character, designed to reduce friend farming and griefing. Any Honorable subsequent kill of the same player will result in a neutral kill until you have killed 10 other players. Neutral and Dishonorable kills have no effect on the list. "
This is what will allow people to make characters on both sides and still prevent "Friend Farming". Also not being able to talk to the other side in any way shape or form will do some to reduce this.
I've never been one for PvP, but I have been doing a few duels and been enjoying that (actually winning more than losing which is suprising) so I might give it a go. I think 1 non-exchange activated server might get crowded quickly though.
Awww... you guys won't be playing cos you can't race to max level, then avoid all combat your levels, sneak through to beginner zones and run around terrorising level 11 players because you enjoy destroying other people's enjoyment? Awww...
And a bounty system? Oh yeah.. that's a big deterrent.
"haha d00d lets go see how big a bounty we cn get on owr heds!! lol"
"oh man we runed our caracterz!"
"lol!! so? lets rerol!"
Fact is, EQ2 is not built for the kind of PvP PKer griefing you're looking for, so get over it quick and move along. Though you'll all try it anyways to see how much chance you have at ganking anyways I guess.
Save yourself the hassle of losing sleep over it, as you PKer types seem to do, and go read up on the Roma Victor and Darkfall forums/sites.
Oh, did I cast you all in one big stereotype? Wow.. seems very simular to your broad sweep carebear stereotype!
All I can say is mass death to bot farmers.. Oh revenge is going to be very, very sweet.
That raises an interesting point though. It's obviously going to be very dangerous and hard to mine ore, rocks etc from Thundering Steppes/Nek Forest upwards.
Consider how much things are going to cost on the market. I venture that PvP loot and instance loot is going to be a LOT more common place than crafted gear. Not that it matters are it's mostly better by default anyways.
But do you guys reckon we'll see much, if any, serious crafting on the PvP servers? If Ashen Roots sell for 40s now, how frickin much they going to sell for there? haha.
It's not that I'm wanting to gank, although it can be fun.
What sort of pvp (war) environment are you creating with this level handcuff?
Picture you (level 30) returning a quest to see a level 21 enemy killing a level 15 ally. You can't do anything about it. The 21 isn't flagged against you so you can't attack. You watch your ally die.
How about you (level 30) and 10 level 21s circling around you, laughing, mocking etc. You can't do anything to them. At least if you could attack you would and die with some 'honor' and not play their game. They could bother you and kill at will.
I'm sure one can think of other situations where the ruleset is going to be more annoying then helpful.
"Wow.. seems very simular to your broad sweep carebear stereotype!"
Calling me a carebear? If the rules stick for these pvp servers.. they are carebare pvp servers. If you play on carebear pvp servers, well I think you can figure it out..
The only rule for PVP needed is balanced combat so one profession does not overpower another. In Ultima Online there was no level crap. You had 700 skill points to allocate as you wished. So you had the same skills as a veteran playing for 5 yrs, just that veteran has more experience in PVP and better tactics at first. But you can catch up quickly and still be competitive.
The griefing and ganking just allowed the community to set the rules. You adapted. Avoided areas and encounters where you might get griefed or ganked. Sometimes you got ganked and sometimes you were in a group doing the ganking. What comes around goes around. You found a guild for training and safety, and they could teach you how to survive. It truly was run by the community, not by some overly thought out ruleset. The problem is most of you never really experienced UO back in 1997-1999. Its tough to get my point across. But the lack of restrictions on how you could PVP really made for an exciting world to play in and interact. Sure in the beginning you got killed alot , ganked , griefed but soon you would be able to defend yourself and turn the tide.
Again, I wasnt a full blooded PKer, ganker or griefer. But having all that reallly made for one hell of an experience. Dying meant you could be looted and lose your possessions, lose some time finding a rez, and the dissapointment in losing. Back then there were not super elite weapons or armor so it wasnt a huge deal. So player made items were very important, easy to find and made for a nice economy. Great overall balance. I had a miner that would be killed every 2 or 3 days. So what, I would find a safer place to mine or have tactics to avoid being killed. Sometimes friending a murderer. There was so many ways to adapt. Sure you had the ruthless that would kill anything that moved, but hence the Good vs Evil. There were good people to help you back on your feet.
Too many restrictions on PVP just doesnt sound good to me. I've never played EQ II but I thought about it with these new PVP server. But its not for me and I won't be playing. If others enjoy it, well then thats great. Just dont bash me for liking a particular play style.
LFG...LFG...LFG...
Man, it's been hours without finding a group. Oh, wait, here are some folks coming now. Whew, thought I'd never get a group. Hmm, these guys running up to me are 20 levels higher. Guess they're being kind, going to add me to their group and power-level me very likely. They're almost to me, but weapons are drawn. Why is that?
<WHACK><300 points of damage><WHACK><300 points of damage>
WTF!
<WHACK><another 300 points of damage><Dead, taking a yellow bar of experience penalty>
Now what was that about P v P coming to EQ2? And how is it going to add to the gaming experience?