For the record you don't have to follow a single quest line in Archeage. You can go do your own thing immediately.
For the record, rowboats are rewarded from a quest . Gardens and farms are rewarded from quests. Becoming a juror is rewarded from a quest chain.
Unless they made such things no longer require quests in 1.2 (doubtful), then no, you can't do your own thing immediately if it requires those.
For the record, you can craft a row boat. You can farm all over the various land masses without a scarecrow or farm. You don't have to be a juror. The minute you create your character you don't have to follow any [!]. There's no magic wall that prevents you from going anywhere and exploring.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
But for the most part I agree with the rest of your post.
I remember the jar jar one now that you mention it but I don't really recall any others even after looking at that page other than mission terminal stuff. but then that was a long time ago and I only played it a for 6 months or so. The jedi hologram grind pushed me out the door
Sandbox is just a blanket term to help generalize. As soon as you start using it to compare and downgrade other products for comparison you need to stop and reevaluate the conversation.
i personally haven't seen a lot of people claiming AA isn't sandbox and can fully state with major confidence, AA is a sandbox. Now is it as broad of a sandbox as SWG? No. It has a bit more themeparks than SWG and doesn't focus as much on community driven PvE.
Again the boy reason we use this terms is to generalize products for certain audiences to recognize them. Kinda like how you would call Enders Game a science fiction novel but also do the same for a Steven King novel in the genre of "science fiction". They are both under that term because publishers want to attract a similar crowd.
Theres plenty of talk on these forums about AA not being a sandbox, on the first and second page of the Archeage general forums for example, there are threads, yes that's plural. I guess selective reading.
Community driven PVE? We've already established everything in SWG was soloable. That doesn't even make sense.
I think you need to reevaluate what has already been established on the forums and this thread if you want to bring anything of relevance to the table.
I will agree that it's a blanket statement, that everybody wishes to meticulously define, therein lies the problem. It can't be both. You even say SWG is more sandbox with no real relevant points to say why, other than something that has already been proven false.
This misinformation is exactly why I made this thread. This is a common argument that uses a lot of bad logic, which you've perpetuated.
You know you are in a sandbox game when the first thing you say to yourself is "WTF do I do to get started" lol
The problem is, that's exactly how EQ started. You'd be hard pressed to convince people that EQ is a sandbox, there just wasn't the conveniences that we now enjoy in games.
Likewise, having a kick in the right direction to get you started does not make something less of a sandbox.
There's always going to be evolution in the way things are presented to us. This is what advances in technology and design affords.
You could still do a sandbox by throwing someone in the world and saying "here you go, piss off". But that doesn't mean it's the only, or best way to do it.
the issue with EQ was you couldn't do almost anything you wanted....you had farming and dungeons....dont even remember if there was a crafting system :P
The idea of a sandbox is that the world is yours, if you can take it...but I strongly believe that you know you are in a sandbox the minute you are in-game...if you dont see it from onset, it's not truly a sandbox.
AA doesn't just give you a kick in the right direction, as all the level 50 fans can attest to, things don't kick up until level 30....that's a bit more than a kick....
When I was dumped in Wurm, I knew it was a sandbox
when I was dumped in Xyson, I knew it was a sandbox
Same with Salem (is that the name of that game)
MO and DF, although not 100% sandboxy because of limitations, felt like sandboxes when you were dumped in them.
Rust (not truly an MMO) felt like a sandbox when I was dumped in it....in just underwear...and a rock...and people with rifles trying to kill me.
Being dumped in AA, did not feel like any of those experiences
I didn't make your criteria for you, you said "being chucked into a game with no direction" is the definition of a sandbox, which by its definition can be applied to EQ, which is arguably the most notable themepark in history next to WoW.
You can get to level 30 in one day in AA with minimal effort. If one day is a large part of the time you plan to spend in an MMO, then you're doing it wrong. Levels in AA are insanely easy. So yes, it is a kick in the right direction, if you play the game for a month you'll be spending the vast majority of time enjoying sandbox elements. Not seeing the problem, with the ratio of time invested on "sandpark" stuff.
Again it's all just nitpicking. A few hours of questing isn't make or break, every person who played SWG spent way more on repetitive boring missions than that. Way way more.
I'm still looking for a substantial difference there, that apparently doesn't exist.
Every other term or feeling you describe I can easily apply to Archeage, but your retort is you just don't "feel it". That's not an argument that it's not a sandbox, it's you just not feeling it.
there is a vast difference between logging onto a sandbox MMO and logging onto a themepark...whether that's justifiable or not, it's the truth for me and obviously another poster who said it right after me. You can immediately tell that AA is not a sandbox game. It's an open world themepark with gadgets.
You can immediately tell and yet it can't be described in ways that are tangible. Or in ways that can't be refuted by arguing the point objectively, like with your "chuck you in the middle of no where and have a go" mechanic that is apparently vital to sandboxes. I've addressed that. What other points are there?
We all know AA has a quest chain. So far I haven't seen anyone come up with a reason why the fact that quest chain exists makes AA any less of a sandbox. It has all the sandbox mechanics that were present in a game like SWG, which also had quests. If I take popcorn and put caramel all over it, it's still popcorn, and you can't claim that it isnt. You can't win with that, because it would be false, so instead were debating how it tastes.
The same mechanics exist there, but it's presented in a different way.
So to people like yourself it matters more how it is presented rather than the substance. I find that reasoning shallow and inconsequential.
I'll repeat, every vital sandbox element that was present in a game like SWG is also present in AA.
That's a fact. And if that's a fact, they're both equally sandbox.
Just no, i think your missing the point, if a game has quest chains that are defined from your character class etc, that follow a very definite path, and you are then led through a series of 'level appropriate' areas, then that is the exact definition of a Themepark, i think where you are getting confused, is that SWG was only a sandbox for a short while, once the CU hit and the game acquired levels, it become more of a 'sandpark' and eventually with the NGE, completely themepark. it did ruin the game, but thats a whole other story. But basically, if the game world itself is seperated into level appropriate areas, then it is by definition, a Themepark game, you follow the path and do the things your supposed to do, and admittedly they are fun, but its also not Sandbox, because in a sandbox the game world is not seperated into neat little boxes with level appropriate content.
Again someone wants to argue with me about SWG? It's folly folks, I will school you in that games lore, history, gameplay elements, tactics, crafting mechanics, whatever you want to talk about. It's complete ill advised at this point, I can't grasp why people want to do it. But whatever, I'll bite.
The original SWG Pre-CU had the con system. It had adventure planets that you should not adventure on until you had "leveled up" sufficiently on the less hostile planets. Sure you could beg for 10k, get a buff, and go run around Dant, you were still way out of your league and likely going home in a body bag as a novice marksman, or at least taking 14 minutes to kill a dog if you had some decent armor. I can go adventuring in high level areas in AA as well, with no doubt a similar amount of risk vs reward, reward being small because you're not proficient enough in abilities to kill stuff, risk being a similar amount.
SWG=theoretically the same. Just without a number, and instead you had a red, yellow, white, blue, or green dot, real big difference.
The fact remains, every vital sandbox element that was present in SWG is also present in AA. So just no, you entirely missed the point, not myself.
Then we disagree, because i do not see these features present in AA, it is, like all the other Themeparks out there, a game world seperated into level appropriate areas. The difference, which you appear to blithely ignore, is that SWG was not, at least not originally in its sandbox phase, of course that all changed when they introduced levels to the game, and i suspect that is the one you are familiar with, personally i was there from beta, to the introduction of the NGE, and maybe thats why i do not see any similarities between the two games.
For the record you don't have to follow a single quest line in Archeage. You can go do your own thing immediately.
For the record, rowboats are rewarded from a quest . Gardens and farms are rewarded from quests. Becoming a juror is rewarded from a quest chain.
Unless they made such things no longer require quests in 1.2 (doubtful), then no, you can't do your own thing immediately if it requires those.
For the record, you can craft a row boat. You can farm all over the various land masses without a scarecrow or farm. You don't have to be a juror. The minute you create your character you don't have to follow any [!]. There's no magic wall that prevents you from going anywhere and exploring.
This isn't about not "having to be" a juror and not having to have a scarecrow. You stated you can do your own thing immediately. For some, their own thing is being a juror, and having a farm safe from thieves.
You made the statement. Don't discount other players' playstyles to bend your rule to your convenience.
But for the most part I agree with the rest of your post.
I remember the jar jar one now that you mention it but I don't really recall any others even after looking at that page other than mission terminal stuff. but then that was a long time ago and I only played it a for 6 months or so. The jedi hologram grind pushed me out the door
They were always there, just never required to progress in the game outside of your own personal desires. Mostly they had to be discovered and figured out by the community themselves rather than by some "quest tracker"....
Actually was just having a bit of a "moment" there re-reading some of those quest descriptions and solutions
Sandbox is just a blanket term to help generalize. As soon as you start using it to compare and downgrade other products for comparison you need to stop and reevaluate the conversation.
i personally haven't seen a lot of people claiming AA isn't sandbox and can fully state with major confidence, AA is a sandbox. Now is it as broad of a sandbox as SWG? No. It has a bit more themeparks than SWG and doesn't focus as much on community driven PvE.
Again the boy reason we use this terms is to generalize products for certain audiences to recognize them. Kinda like how you would call Enders Game a science fiction novel but also do the same for a Steven King novel in the genre of "science fiction". They are both under that term because publishers want to attract a similar crowd.
Theres plenty of talk on these forums about AA not being a sandbox, on the first and second page of the Archeage general forums for example, there are threads, yes that's plural. I guess selective reading.
Community driven PVE? We've already established everything in SWG was soloable. That doesn't even make sense.
I think you need to reevaluate what has already been established on the forums and this thread if you want to bring anything of relevance to the table.
I will agree that it's a blanket statement, that everybody wishes to meticulously define, therein lies the problem. It can't be both. You even say SWG is more sandbox with no real relevant points to say why, other than something that has already been proven false.
This misinformation is exactly why I made this thread. This is a common argument that uses a lot of bad logic, which you've perpetuated.
You know you are in a sandbox game when the first thing you say to yourself is "WTF do I do to get started" lol
The problem is, that's exactly how EQ started. You'd be hard pressed to convince people that EQ is a sandbox, there just wasn't the conveniences that we now enjoy in games.
Likewise, having a kick in the right direction to get you started does not make something less of a sandbox.
There's always going to be evolution in the way things are presented to us. This is what advances in technology and design affords.
You could still do a sandbox by throwing someone in the world and saying "here you go, piss off". But that doesn't mean it's the only, or best way to do it.
the issue with EQ was you couldn't do almost anything you wanted....you had farming and dungeons....dont even remember if there was a crafting system :P
The idea of a sandbox is that the world is yours, if you can take it...but I strongly believe that you know you are in a sandbox the minute you are in-game...if you dont see it from onset, it's not truly a sandbox.
AA doesn't just give you a kick in the right direction, as all the level 50 fans can attest to, things don't kick up until level 30....that's a bit more than a kick....
When I was dumped in Wurm, I knew it was a sandbox
when I was dumped in Xyson, I knew it was a sandbox
Same with Salem (is that the name of that game)
MO and DF, although not 100% sandboxy because of limitations, felt like sandboxes when you were dumped in them.
Rust (not truly an MMO) felt like a sandbox when I was dumped in it....in just underwear...and a rock...and people with rifles trying to kill me.
Being dumped in AA, did not feel like any of those experiences
I didn't make your criteria for you, you said "being chucked into a game with no direction" is the definition of a sandbox, which by its definition can be applied to EQ, which is arguably the most notable themepark in history next to WoW.
You can get to level 30 in one day in AA with minimal effort. If one day is a large part of the time you plan to spend in an MMO, then you're doing it wrong. Levels in AA are insanely easy. So yes, it is a kick in the right direction, if you play the game for a month you'll be spending the vast majority of time enjoying sandbox elements. Not seeing the problem, with the ratio of time invested on "sandpark" stuff.
Again it's all just nitpicking. A few hours of questing isn't make or break, every person who played SWG spent way more on repetitive boring missions than that. Way way more.
I'm still looking for a substantial difference there, that apparently doesn't exist.
Every other term or feeling you describe I can easily apply to Archeage, but your retort is you just don't "feel it". That's not an argument that it's not a sandbox, it's you just not feeling it.
there is a vast difference between logging onto a sandbox MMO and logging onto a themepark...whether that's justifiable or not, it's the truth for me and obviously another poster who said it right after me. You can immediately tell that AA is not a sandbox game. It's an open world themepark with gadgets.
You can immediately tell and yet it can't be described in ways that are tangible. Or in ways that can't be refuted by arguing the point objectively, like with your "chuck you in the middle of no where and have a go" mechanic that is apparently vital to sandboxes. I've addressed that. What other points are there?
We all know AA has a quest chain. So far I haven't seen anyone come up with a reason why the fact that quest chain exists makes AA any less of a sandbox. It has all the sandbox mechanics that were present in a game like SWG, which also had quests. If I take popcorn and put caramel all over it, it's still popcorn, and you can't claim that it isnt. You can't win with that, because it would be false, so instead were debating how it tastes.
The same mechanics exist there, but it's presented in a different way.
So to people like yourself it matters more how it is presented rather than the substance. I find that reasoning shallow and inconsequential.
I'll repeat, every vital sandbox element that was present in a game like SWG is also present in AA.
That's a fact. And if that's a fact, they're both equally sandbox.
Just no, i think your missing the point, if a game has quest chains that are defined from your character class etc, that follow a very definite path, and you are then led through a series of 'level appropriate' areas, then that is the exact definition of a Themepark, i think where you are getting confused, is that SWG was only a sandbox for a short while, once the CU hit and the game acquired levels, it become more of a 'sandpark' and eventually with the NGE, completely themepark. it did ruin the game, but thats a whole other story. But basically, if the game world itself is seperated into level appropriate areas, then it is by definition, a Themepark game, you follow the path and do the things your supposed to do, and admittedly they are fun, but its also not Sandbox, because in a sandbox the game world is not seperated into neat little boxes with level appropriate content.
Again someone wants to argue with me about SWG? It's folly folks, I will school you in that games lore, history, gameplay elements, tactics, crafting mechanics, whatever you want to talk about. It's complete ill advised at this point, I can't grasp why people want to do it. But whatever, I'll bite.
The original SWG Pre-CU had the con system. It had adventure planets that you should not adventure on until you had "leveled up" sufficiently on the less hostile planets. Sure you could beg for 10k, get a buff, and go run around Dant, you were still way out of your league and likely going home in a body bag as a novice marksman, or at least taking 14 minutes to kill a dog if you had some decent armor. I can go adventuring in high level areas in AA as well, with no doubt a similar amount of risk vs reward, reward being small because you're not proficient enough in abilities to kill stuff, risk being a similar amount.
SWG=theoretically the same. Just without a number, and instead you had a red, yellow, white, blue, or green dot, real big difference.
The fact remains, every vital sandbox element that was present in SWG is also present in AA. So just no, you entirely missed the point, not myself.
Then we disagree, because i do not see these features present in AA, it is, like all the other Themeparks out there, a game world seperated into level appropriate areas. The difference, which you appear to blithely ignore, is that SWG was not, at least not originally in its sandbox phase, of course that all changed when they introduced levels to the game, and i suspect that is the one you are familiar with, personally i was there from beta, to the introduction of the NGE, and maybe thats why i do not see any similarities between the two games.
SWG was seperated into level appropriate areas, there were 3 different tiers planets. The starting planets Naboo/Corelia/Talus/Rori/Tatooine, intermediate yavin4/lok/dantooine then there's Dathomir/Endor. At least that's how I always spit them up, which is certainly as viable as anything you've had to say about it.
Personally I don't care what you expect, you clearly didn't read the thread or my various posts about SWG. If you did you wouldn't draw such conclusions. But it doesn't matter. As someone pointed out earlier, there's no teaching logic to this crowd. That was not my intention, but I expect those on the fence will see the reasoning. Clearly some have just made up their mind that AA is a themepark and they won't have it any other way. The game could do without more people taking up the end game sandbox elements like farms and housing anyways. So by all means, stay far away and let's continue to disagree.
But for the most part I agree with the rest of your post.
I remember the jar jar one now that you mention it but I don't really recall any others even after looking at that page other than mission terminal stuff. but then that was a long time ago and I only played it a for 6 months or so. The jedi hologram grind pushed me out the door
They were always there, just never required to progress in the game outside of your own personal desires. Mostly they had to be discovered and figured out by the community themselves rather than by some "quest tracker"....
Actually was just having a bit of a "moment" there re-reading some of those quest descriptions and solutions
Good times
Same man. That's one thing I never did in that game, I didnt do half the quests on that list. Maybe one day.
Then we disagree, because i do not see these features present in AA, it is, like all the other Themeparks out there, a game world seperated into level appropriate areas. The difference, which you appear to blithely ignore, is that SWG was not, at least not originally in its sandbox phase, of course that all changed when they introduced levels to the game, and i suspect that is the one you are familiar with, personally i was there from beta, to the introduction of the NGE, and maybe thats why i do not see any similarities between the two games.
the open world housing with no "hooks" for furniture and the pick 3 skill trees and mix and limitaions on how may skills you can get within those 3 trees are quite similar to SWG's in my opinion. Note that similar does not mean exact copies just that they share a lot of the same features. Also similar is that if you choose to you can minimize the combat and level by crafting alone and never see any PvP at all if that suits you
I also see parts of DAoC in the game, and the breakable crates remind me of Elder Scrolls, the hang gliders remind me of Aion. the underwater exploration GW2, the open sea combat is pretty unique but maybe Pirates of the Burning Sea. Lots of good features in this game that are not unique but when you add them all together make for a pretty remarkable game experience
But for the most part I agree with the rest of your post.
I remember the jar jar one now that you mention it but I don't really recall any others even after looking at that page other than mission terminal stuff. but then that was a long time ago and I only played it a for 6 months or so. The jedi hologram grind pushed me out the door
They were always there, just never required to progress in the game outside of your own personal desires. Mostly they had to be discovered and figured out by the community themselves rather than by some "quest tracker"....
Actually was just having a bit of a "moment" there re-reading some of those quest descriptions and solutions
Good times
Same man. That's one thing I never did in that game, I didnt do half the quests on that list. Maybe one day.
I actually went through a completionist phase at one point and went through each planet systematically (which is I why I remember the SWGAlakhazam site so fondly) completing each quest / badge / poi etc lol....
Now if I made a thread, I would have called it "How is AA not a sandbox and Asheron's Call was?"
Themepark, Asherons Call was a game world seperated into level based areas, it had some fun mechanics originally, where you had to try and learn spells, they oversimplified it eventually, but it was to all intents and purposes, a Themepark game.
And that's why I personal made the comparison to that instead of swg, also due to the atmosphere.
I believe sandbox is about the feeling of being free to interact with environment and players in the way you dare to imagine.
SWG had a lot more variables in the game equation than AA has. I bit the bait of AA being like SWG and they are totally different games. I consider AA a good game and I think I will play it for 1-2 years, but AA is very little related to SWG.
To those who claim they soloed Rancors and Kryats, I guess you could with uber armor/weapon and buffs and money for repairs and the aid of some patches that corrupted the game. I soloed them too when the Nightsisters Camp was introduced and the game was themepark-ed, jedi-azed and solo-abled. Before the game was spoiled, we preferred to group (MMO thing, you know?) and gather pearls for our Dark Jedi guildies
Pic was taken in a Kimogila hunt I think. You know why I was so far away? Because ranged shots were more effective. AA does not have something like that.
I quote this classic posts which describes the feelings better than I could do. Playing AA, I have experienced very little of these feelings:
RobbHood:
The game was just out of beta and 40 of my guild started playing. I was one of my group’s “Planet Side” testers/players, having beta tested it. We are 200 strong spread out now over 8-10 different games.
I would tune in the SWG channel on TS and listen, it was amazing to here the accounts of things across the galaxy as seen through the eyes of noobs. Everyone was a noob. I had to be a part of this.
I got the game and away I went. There were people everywhere. Cantinas were jammed, star ports as well. People running across Dath, no speeders yet. Fighting rancors and nightsisters. Squills and Tuskin Raiders were things to avoid on our home planet. The Corellian plains ands the swamps of Talus, filled with big cats and their babies was a great place for the CH, but a dangerous one as well.
The crafting was amazing as well, folks dedicated themselves to mining, harvesting or buying the best resources, looting or buying skill tapes, and the items they made were top shelf. We knew who they were and we haggled for the best price. Weapons, armor, BE clothing, foods, drinks, etc…
The fighting classes would hire out to protect crafters as they tended their harvesters, or just paid us to bring home the best meat or bone, when ever it would be located that month at various places across the galaxy. The player cites became sophisticated and well thought out. We would hunt in groups to fund the treasury. Recruit top crafters to place their vendors so traffic in town would increase.
Entertainers formed troupes that would travel around and perform at events for hire. Towns would have celebrations, music, fireworks, dancing. The socialization was at its peak.
Bases became focal points for the GCW, defending and attacking, when one went “hot” hundreds of players would be on hand. Theed was a kill zone as was the Bestine-Anchorhead corridor.
Jedi were rare and as the game progressed, more found their way to the Force. But through perma-death, saber TEF and eventually visibility and the BH, showing off with a LS was a bad thing. Removing the BH gank squad made us Jedi more brazen and may have been the first sign of the down hill slide. Jedi should have remained in the shadows.
I remember traveling across many planets and stopping off in a camps on a regular basis. Players just out and about were never hard to stumble across. The Master Ranger camp was a sight to see. If they had a dancer, it was a chance to heal up a bit and move on. Before leaving you could often barter for a new pet or some food or drink. Few new I was a Jedi, it was much safer that way. Regular clothes, carrying a rifle or carbine, with my LS in the tool bar just in case I was not as careful as I thought I was.
Back to a big city, get your speeder, armor and weapon repaired. It was always nice to find a smuggler and get those new items sliced. Stop by the local cantina and enjoy some music and get a mind buff, hit a star port and have a doctor buff you up. Then back out to the open spaces, never far from action.
Player run night clubs sprang up, rented juke boxes, exotic dancers, beauty pageants and just a place to hang out, waiting for the next assault on the enemy or hunting party. At one pageant, with about two hundred in attendance, a beautiful young Jedi was competing, when a BH attacked, the fight spilled out into the street and raged on for 20 minutes before she managed to escape. I cannot imagine a more “Star Warsy” scene then a fight breaking out in a Star Wars bar.
You didn’t have to run around to find PvP, it would always find you if you were not alert. NPC’s could unmask you as well, and many times you would have to fight your way out of town. For a Jedi, that meant visibility for sure. Time o be extra careful. But if laying low was your thing for the moment, there were 100 places to go and things to do. Tend to your factors, restock, shop, socialize, hunt, the Vette, Theme Parks, The Warren, Black Sun Bunker, etc… The server forums served as After Action Reports that made the slow times at work more enjoyable.
New players would seek help, and many did help. Taking them under their wing, showing them the ropes, forging bonds, weaken by the tears of this dying game, and friend’s lists evaporated as gamers left for greener pastures.
You really carved out your own existence, the greatest Star Wars saga ever told, yours… and if you ran the course and wanted a change, you could start over, 31 more times if it suited you.
Many of us have moved on, others stay and pray that the greatness of this game will return. Still others, like me, pay for a month here and there just to check in and see for ourselves.
For me, there is a soothing, surreal feeling when I hear the opening music. I stand above my home on Tatooine, in Storm’s End, a town we forged from the sands in a place called The Valley of the Wind. I watch the twin suns set over the mountains and remember what the game was like. It truly breaks my heart to think of the friends lost and the good times we had, gone forever, like the sands in a storm. I wait a bit longer, check my empty friend’s list and log off.
Yes, we were adventurers, explorers and soldiers, and it was the best of times.
For the record you don't have to follow a single quest line in Archeage. You can go do your own thing immediately.
For the record, rowboats are rewarded from a quest . Gardens and farms are rewarded from quests. Becoming a juror is rewarded from a quest chain.
Unless they made such things no longer require quests in 1.2 (doubtful), then no, you can't do your own thing immediately if it requires those.
For the record, you can craft a row boat. You can farm all over the various land masses without a scarecrow or farm. You don't have to be a juror. The minute you create your character you don't have to follow any [!]. There's no magic wall that prevents you from going anywhere and exploring.
This isn't about not "having to be" a juror and not having to have a scarecrow. You stated you can do your own thing immediately. For some, their own thing is being a juror, and having a farm safe from thieves.
You made the statement. Don't discount other players' playstyles to bend your rule to your convenience.
If you want a row boat you can gather and craft one, if you want to farm without questing to do it you have that option. If you want to be a juror okay GOT ME, you have to do some stuff to appease the local government.
The overall point is you are not "forced" to follow the exclamation points if you don't want to. If you want to derail the point with some semantics and technicalities so be it.
Point is, anybody who is that red hot against questing who can't break off from the beaten path is walking contradiction.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
I believe sandbox is about the feeling of being free to interact with environment and players in the way you dare to imagine.
SWG had a lot more variables in the game equation than AA has. I bit the bait of AA being like SWG and they are totally different games. I consider AA a good game and I think I will play it for 1-2 years, but AA is very little related to SWG.
To those who claim they soloed Rancors and Kryats, I guess you could with uber armor/weapon and buffs and money for repairs and the aid of some patches that corrupted the game. I soloed them too when the Nightsisters Camp was introduced and the game was themepark-ed, jedi-azed and solo-abled. Before the game was spoiled, we preferred to group (MMO thing, you know?) and gather pearls for our Dark Jedi guildies
Pic was taken in a Kimogila hunt I think. You know why I was so far away? Because ranged shots were more effective. AA does not have something like that.
I quote this classic posts which describes the feelings better than I could do. Playing AA, I have experienced very little of these feelings:
/snip
It's funny that the people who seem to champion SWG the most on these forums are the least knowledgeable about it and spread a lot of misinformation. It's also funny that they know more about the NGE/CU game than they do about SWG-PRECU. Funny, but not that surprising.
What you're talking about and the well known post you quoted describe the first month of SWG, exactly when everyone was a noob. After that, for those that don't know any better, this is what happened:
80% kinetic armor and buffs that would triple your HAM bars became more readily available. This is just players learning and doing what you were capable of in the game. After this, everything except maybe Ancient Krayts (which were still soloable by the elite who wanted to put in the time) could be readily and easily soloed by any player. Specials did not use any action or mind because of buffs, and mobs could not harm you as almost all of them did kinetic or energy damage and these were the two easiest damage type for armorsmiths to layer armor for and protect against. This was not in an update, this was there from day one. It took time to acquire the resources and the knowledge to do it. But once it was there, the games PVE was a joke.
Also, ranged more effective than melee. That's all I would've had to pick on in your post to show you that you have no idea what you're talking about. Melee owned SWG from the second the three levels of ranged/melee mitigation were added to the combat profession skill trees. This was maybe a couple of months after launch, and added by the devs to encourage players to master professions, rather than build hybrids. My BH/pistoleer mopped the floor with everyone in PVP up to that point, that was quickly taken care of. Apparently everyone on mmorpg.com quit playing already. What a bunch of weathered SWG vets!
That's why they added Super Battle Droids to the Corelian Corvette and the DWB, which were intended to be the group content of SWG, because everything in the original game was trivial. And the SBD were ridiculous creations, they were so strong and able to ruin a full group of players simply because SOE had to do something about how easy the game was. It took ages for anyone to crack the Death Watch Bunker, most people avoided the place like the plague because the difficulty was so ridiculous. They wouldn't have added something so over the top like this if the rest of the game weren't such a joke. The Corvette and the DWB were the only two things in the game that could not be completed solo (you could still get an AV 21 deed solo on the Vette and escape, good times), and these were later additions for that very reason.
For those of us who actually played SWG-PRECU and knew what it was about, and experienced all of it to its capacity, there's a lot to compare between the two games. And I can draw those comparisons because I know what I'm talking about.
If you think Krayts and Rancors weren't solable, you don't know what you are talking about. WHat killed SWG PVE was the god buffs.
Yeah it's funny to see people say things like that couldn't be solo'd. I never even played CU I was done the day I herd what was being changed yet I solo'd on rancor nests, hunted kraytes alone and solo'd the sand people fortress ( when you could actually be there alone ) I learned that it wasn't a good idea to take a new account ( my alt account once I went full crafter on my main ) to dath to kill rancor. Not because they killed you, but it took so long to kill them they chewed up your armor so bad you needed a new set really fast.
TKm/pistol/sword was so OP nothing ever really hit you. Add in Dr buffs and comp armor and you were like a god.
I used to solo Night Sisters and Rancors on Dath all the time with my Master Commando. I had a Krayt flamethrower with a 3 sec cd that was badass. This was before the CU and before the jedi village quest system was added. Granted, I had to pay a ton for doctor buffs just to be able to wear my composite armor... but it was worth it. I made a fortune off of selling Rancor bile.
It's been almost 10 years since the CU and NGE... I think peoples' memories of the timeline are getting fuzzy. It's like when a loved one dies and after a while you start to forget things like what their voice sounded like. Personally, the fact that people are even comparing SWG to AA makes me want to try out AA. However, I'm really looking forward to The Repopulation as well.
I miss the Entertainer type professions and social aspects of mmo's, but maybe I'm just getting old.
Comments
There were a lot of quests in SWG Pre-CU
http://web.archive.org/web/20050428081619/http://swg.allakhazam.com/db/quests.html?sortby=Planet
But for the most part I agree with the rest of your post.
For the record, you can craft a row boat. You can farm all over the various land masses without a scarecrow or farm. You don't have to be a juror. The minute you create your character you don't have to follow any [!]. There's no magic wall that prevents you from going anywhere and exploring.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gah...beat me to it.
Was about to lnk that exact same archive
I remember the jar jar one now that you mention it but I don't really recall any others even after looking at that page other than mission terminal stuff. but then that was a long time ago and I only played it a for 6 months or so. The jedi hologram grind pushed me out the door
I miss DAoC
Then we disagree, because i do not see these features present in AA, it is, like all the other Themeparks out there, a game world seperated into level appropriate areas. The difference, which you appear to blithely ignore, is that SWG was not, at least not originally in its sandbox phase, of course that all changed when they introduced levels to the game, and i suspect that is the one you are familiar with, personally i was there from beta, to the introduction of the NGE, and maybe thats why i do not see any similarities between the two games.
This isn't about not "having to be" a juror and not having to have a scarecrow. You stated you can do your own thing immediately. For some, their own thing is being a juror, and having a farm safe from thieves.
You made the statement. Don't discount other players' playstyles to bend your rule to your convenience.
They were always there, just never required to progress in the game outside of your own personal desires. Mostly they had to be discovered and figured out by the community themselves rather than by some "quest tracker"....
Actually was just having a bit of a "moment" there re-reading some of those quest descriptions and solutions
Good times
SWG was seperated into level appropriate areas, there were 3 different tiers planets. The starting planets Naboo/Corelia/Talus/Rori/Tatooine, intermediate yavin4/lok/dantooine then there's Dathomir/Endor. At least that's how I always spit them up, which is certainly as viable as anything you've had to say about it.
Personally I don't care what you expect, you clearly didn't read the thread or my various posts about SWG. If you did you wouldn't draw such conclusions. But it doesn't matter. As someone pointed out earlier, there's no teaching logic to this crowd. That was not my intention, but I expect those on the fence will see the reasoning. Clearly some have just made up their mind that AA is a themepark and they won't have it any other way. The game could do without more people taking up the end game sandbox elements like farms and housing anyways. So by all means, stay far away and let's continue to disagree.
Same man. That's one thing I never did in that game, I didnt do half the quests on that list. Maybe one day.
the open world housing with no "hooks" for furniture and the pick 3 skill trees and mix and limitaions on how may skills you can get within those 3 trees are quite similar to SWG's in my opinion. Note that similar does not mean exact copies just that they share a lot of the same features. Also similar is that if you choose to you can minimize the combat and level by crafting alone and never see any PvP at all if that suits you
I also see parts of DAoC in the game, and the breakable crates remind me of Elder Scrolls, the hang gliders remind me of Aion. the underwater exploration GW2, the open sea combat is pretty unique but maybe Pirates of the Burning Sea. Lots of good features in this game that are not unique but when you add them all together make for a pretty remarkable game experience
I miss DAoC
I actually went through a completionist phase at one point and went through each planet systematically (which is I why I remember the SWGAlakhazam site so fondly) completing each quest / badge / poi etc lol....
And that's why I personal made the comparison to that instead of swg, also due to the atmosphere.
I believe sandbox is about the feeling of being free to interact with environment and players in the way you dare to imagine.
SWG had a lot more variables in the game equation than AA has. I bit the bait of AA being like SWG and they are totally different games. I consider AA a good game and I think I will play it for 1-2 years, but AA is very little related to SWG.
To those who claim they soloed Rancors and Kryats, I guess you could with uber armor/weapon and buffs and money for repairs and the aid of some patches that corrupted the game. I soloed them too when the Nightsisters Camp was introduced and the game was themepark-ed, jedi-azed and solo-abled. Before the game was spoiled, we preferred to group (MMO thing, you know?) and gather pearls for our Dark Jedi guildies
Pic was taken in a Kimogila hunt I think. You know why I was so far away? Because ranged shots were more effective. AA does not have something like that.
I quote this classic posts which describes the feelings better than I could do. Playing AA, I have experienced very little of these feelings:
RobbHood:
The game was just out of beta and 40 of my guild started playing. I was one of my group’s “Planet Side” testers/players, having beta tested it. We are 200 strong spread out now over 8-10 different games.
I would tune in the SWG channel on TS and listen, it was amazing to here the accounts of things across the galaxy as seen through the eyes of noobs. Everyone was a noob. I had to be a part of this.
I got the game and away I went. There were people everywhere. Cantinas were jammed, star ports as well. People running across Dath, no speeders yet. Fighting rancors and nightsisters. Squills and Tuskin Raiders were things to avoid on our home planet. The Corellian plains ands the swamps of Talus, filled with big cats and their babies was a great place for the CH, but a dangerous one as well.
The crafting was amazing as well, folks dedicated themselves to mining, harvesting or buying the best resources, looting or buying skill tapes, and the items they made were top shelf. We knew who they were and we haggled for the best price. Weapons, armor, BE clothing, foods, drinks, etc…
The fighting classes would hire out to protect crafters as they tended their harvesters, or just paid us to bring home the best meat or bone, when ever it would be located that month at various places across the galaxy.
The player cites became sophisticated and well thought out. We would hunt in groups to fund the treasury. Recruit top crafters to place their vendors so traffic in town would increase.
Entertainers formed troupes that would travel around and perform at events for hire. Towns would have celebrations, music, fireworks, dancing. The socialization was at its peak.
Bases became focal points for the GCW, defending and attacking, when one went “hot” hundreds of players would be on hand. Theed was a kill zone as was the Bestine-Anchorhead corridor.
Jedi were rare and as the game progressed, more found their way to the Force. But through perma-death, saber TEF and eventually visibility and the BH, showing off with a LS was a bad thing. Removing the BH gank squad made us Jedi more brazen and may have been the first sign of the down hill slide. Jedi should have remained in the shadows.
I remember traveling across many planets and stopping off in a camps on a regular basis. Players just out and about were never hard to stumble across. The Master Ranger camp was a sight to see. If they had a dancer, it was a chance to heal up a bit and move on. Before leaving you could often barter for a new pet or some food or drink. Few new I was a Jedi, it was much safer that way. Regular clothes, carrying a rifle or carbine, with my LS in the tool bar just in case I was not as careful as I thought I was.
Back to a big city, get your speeder, armor and weapon repaired. It was always nice to find a smuggler and get those new items sliced. Stop by the local cantina and enjoy some music and get a mind buff, hit a star port and have a doctor buff you up. Then back out to the open spaces, never far from action.
Player run night clubs sprang up, rented juke boxes, exotic dancers, beauty pageants and just a place to hang out, waiting for the next assault on the enemy or hunting party. At one pageant, with about two hundred in attendance, a beautiful young Jedi was competing, when a BH attacked, the fight spilled out into the street and raged on for 20 minutes before she managed to escape. I cannot imagine a more “Star Warsy” scene then a fight breaking out in a Star Wars bar.
You didn’t have to run around to find PvP, it would always find you if you were not alert. NPC’s could unmask you as well, and many times you would have to fight your way out of town. For a Jedi, that meant visibility for sure. Time o be extra careful. But if laying low was your thing for the moment, there were 100 places to go and things to do. Tend to your factors, restock, shop, socialize, hunt, the Vette, Theme Parks, The Warren, Black Sun Bunker, etc… The server forums served as After Action Reports that made the slow times at work more enjoyable.
New players would seek help, and many did help. Taking them under their wing, showing them the ropes, forging bonds, weaken by the tears of this dying game, and friend’s lists evaporated as gamers left for greener pastures.
You really carved out your own existence, the greatest Star Wars saga ever told, yours… and if you ran the course and wanted a change, you could start over, 31 more times if it suited you.
Many of us have moved on, others stay and pray that the greatness of this game will return. Still others, like me, pay for a month here and there just to check in and see for ourselves.
For me, there is a soothing, surreal feeling when I hear the opening music. I stand above my home on Tatooine, in Storm’s End, a town we forged from the sands in a place called The Valley of the Wind. I watch the twin suns set over the mountains and remember what the game was like. It truly breaks my heart to think of the friends lost and the good times we had, gone forever, like the sands in a storm. I wait a bit longer, check my empty friend’s list and log off.
Yes, we were adventurers, explorers and soldiers, and it was the best of times.
^.^'
If you want a row boat you can gather and craft one, if you want to farm without questing to do it you have that option. If you want to be a juror okay GOT ME, you have to do some stuff to appease the local government.
The overall point is you are not "forced" to follow the exclamation points if you don't want to. If you want to derail the point with some semantics and technicalities so be it.
Point is, anybody who is that red hot against questing who can't break off from the beaten path is walking contradiction.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's funny that the people who seem to champion SWG the most on these forums are the least knowledgeable about it and spread a lot of misinformation. It's also funny that they know more about the NGE/CU game than they do about SWG-PRECU. Funny, but not that surprising.
What you're talking about and the well known post you quoted describe the first month of SWG, exactly when everyone was a noob. After that, for those that don't know any better, this is what happened:
80% kinetic armor and buffs that would triple your HAM bars became more readily available. This is just players learning and doing what you were capable of in the game. After this, everything except maybe Ancient Krayts (which were still soloable by the elite who wanted to put in the time) could be readily and easily soloed by any player. Specials did not use any action or mind because of buffs, and mobs could not harm you as almost all of them did kinetic or energy damage and these were the two easiest damage type for armorsmiths to layer armor for and protect against. This was not in an update, this was there from day one. It took time to acquire the resources and the knowledge to do it. But once it was there, the games PVE was a joke.
Also, ranged more effective than melee. That's all I would've had to pick on in your post to show you that you have no idea what you're talking about. Melee owned SWG from the second the three levels of ranged/melee mitigation were added to the combat profession skill trees. This was maybe a couple of months after launch, and added by the devs to encourage players to master professions, rather than build hybrids. My BH/pistoleer mopped the floor with everyone in PVP up to that point, that was quickly taken care of. Apparently everyone on mmorpg.com quit playing already. What a bunch of weathered SWG vets!
That's why they added Super Battle Droids to the Corelian Corvette and the DWB, which were intended to be the group content of SWG, because everything in the original game was trivial. And the SBD were ridiculous creations, they were so strong and able to ruin a full group of players simply because SOE had to do something about how easy the game was. It took ages for anyone to crack the Death Watch Bunker, most people avoided the place like the plague because the difficulty was so ridiculous. They wouldn't have added something so over the top like this if the rest of the game weren't such a joke. The Corvette and the DWB were the only two things in the game that could not be completed solo (you could still get an AV 21 deed solo on the Vette and escape, good times), and these were later additions for that very reason.
For those of us who actually played SWG-PRECU and knew what it was about, and experienced all of it to its capacity, there's a lot to compare between the two games. And I can draw those comparisons because I know what I'm talking about.
I used to solo Night Sisters and Rancors on Dath all the time with my Master Commando. I had a Krayt flamethrower with a 3 sec cd that was badass. This was before the CU and before the jedi village quest system was added. Granted, I had to pay a ton for doctor buffs just to be able to wear my composite armor... but it was worth it. I made a fortune off of selling Rancor bile.
It's been almost 10 years since the CU and NGE... I think peoples' memories of the timeline are getting fuzzy. It's like when a loved one dies and after a while you start to forget things like what their voice sounded like. Personally, the fact that people are even comparing SWG to AA makes me want to try out AA. However, I'm really looking forward to The Repopulation as well.
I miss the Entertainer type professions and social aspects of mmo's, but maybe I'm just getting old.