With the current set up of the game, a dedicated healer class doesn't make sense to me. I could see them adding additional classes but not a healer class. The reasons have been stated previously and in all honesty, an elementalist can heal fine in a group.
Well more along the lines they NEED a trinity. It just needs to be blunt with its roles enforcing the oldschool trinity "Damage, Support, Control" and give the options to fit those roles, perhaps a class being able to take hits and keep enemies on them temporarily (Control or Tank as many games call it), People who buff and heal up allies (Support, or Healers as games make them specifically play as), and then damage which is just damage. Its completely fine if those rolls can touch into each other's spaces giving more control as a damage or healing as a control. It just relies on having some balance and trying to enforce it more in game to work smoothly.
Old school trinity was tank, heal and crowd control. It has since been butchered by anyone trying to support their own arguments.
Well more along the lines they NEED a trinity. It just needs to be blunt with its roles enforcing the oldschool trinity "Damage, Support, Control" and give the options to fit those roles, perhaps a class being able to take hits and keep enemies on them temporarily (Control or Tank as many games call it), People who buff and heal up allies (Support, or Healers as games make them specifically play as), and then damage which is just damage. Its completely fine if those rolls can touch into each other's spaces giving more control as a damage or healing as a control. It just relies on having some balance and trying to enforce it more in game to work smoothly.
Old school trinity was tank, heal and crowd control. It has since been butchered by anyone trying to support their own arguments.
Honestly, depending on how far back u want to go, most of the 'oldschool' games didn't really have a trinity.
It was something the players themselves created in attempt to have 'optimal' groups for dungeons and the like. Once that happened you did have tank, healer, control. However, before long that changed into tank, heal, dps towards the end of EQ's reign.
Since then, that's been adopted by most traditional themeparks. EQ2, FFXI, WoW, etc. as CC became less and less a staple of gameplay, in favor of more and more dumbed down combat mechanics.
GW2 no trinity system cannot allow a pure class such healer or pure dps or pure Tankish...
One of the reasons i cannot look back is that.. I Like to be the healer in every game i play so that system really ruined it for me.
Basically what you are on GW2 is a DPS with some optional healing skills and survival skills (ala tank).
All these just to not force you be the one or the other and wait endlessly on queues etc etc.
Even if some classes like the elementalist and guardian are more capable on healing skills still feel weak and that role is crippled and shallow and the overall mechanics of the "No Trinity" make it no viable to play as such and be able actually to be a true healer for you team... just an extra support via heals and so much weak overall that it isnt even worth it.. it needs to be a system that actually needs healing.
What they could do to "save" the game could be to allow any class to be able to take a pure role if they want if they tune their characters accordingly..
For example with some respec every necro can be either pure dps,pure healer or pure tank if they want. so the groups can sort it out themselfs if they need to do something together.
As it is now,every class for pve are weak on what they do and feel shallow.
When they do something like that I might consider give it yet another shot... Bringing new living stories is pure rubbish for me and waste of resources. they could add classes,skills,races,houses,guild halls,guilds VS Guilds mechanisms/gameplay and more.
Also They could make World VS World a bit different like a mirror world exactly like the pve one but with guilds be able to build their guilds cities in that world wherever they want (or almost that) and make a system so the other guilds make sieges to take those castles etc for resources and other stuff ala darkfall for example but without that full loot... so many posibilities that are wasted on repeatedly doing the same thing...take the same castle on timer.. lose it..be able to do nothing with it if you have it..basicaly like a large scale BG... really pointless and boring...
GW2 no trinity system cannot allow a pure class such healer or pure dps or pure Tankish...
One of the reasons i cannot look back is that.. I Like to be the healer in every game i play so that system really ruined it for me.
Basically what you are on GW2 is a DPS with some optional healing skills and survival skills (ala tank).
All these just to not force you be the one or the other and wait endlessly on queues etc etc.
Even if some classes like the elementalist and guardian are more capable on healing skills still feel weak and that role is crippled and shallow and the overall mechanics of the "No Trinity" make it no viable to play as such and be able actually to be a true healer for you team... just an extra support via heals and so much weak overall that it isnt even worth it.. it needs to be a system that actually needs healing.
What they could do to "save" the game could be to allow any class to be able to take a pure role if they want if they tune their characters accordingly..
.... or you could learn how the game actually works, instead of trying to shoe-horn it into another WoW clone.
The amount of healing you can actually achieve in GW2 is actually pretty ridiculous atm. Perhaps even more than what Anet had originally intended. You just need to know what you are doing.
Take the elementalist for example. Maybe you picked up staff and thought 'well, i only have 2 group heals, in 1 attunement, lame. And they don't even heal much, they tic for like 100 hp every couple seconds. It's like nothing! And yet... they are also water fields.. And because of that, you can combo off of them. Your allies can combo off of them. And just like that, you're measly ~500 hp AoE heal turns into a massive, chain bursting 1000+ dmg aoe heal (that can burst multiple times). And you are now healing most of your allies health back with each field.
On top of this, you can stack boons (buffs) on your allies, giving them regen, protection, more dodge, more damage, etc. You can also help them out via crowd control. Crippling mobs, knocking them away, reflecting projectiles away from your allies, etc.
.. So are you a 'pure' healer? No. But u can still keep your allies alive. You can still play the caster-support role and boost up your team. What you can't do is sit in the back and spam health bars the whole fight, while you eat a sandwich and watch cartoons. You need to pay attention, and you need to work together.
And that is what GW2 is about, and why it doesn't force specialized trinity roles. It's built around comboing abilities off your teammates. And... actual teamwork. Instead of 5 people playing by themselves, together. Which is what most (if not all) trinity MMOs have become. A group of specialized characters, who barely have to communicate, and only really need to focus on what they themselves are doing. Occasionally something might happen, and you go 'oh crap! immergency skill!' and then you're back to your mindless button pressing.
It's fine if you like that, but that was never what GW2 was trying to be. And I, for one, am glad it isn't.
GW2 no trinity system cannot allow a pure class such healer or pure dps or pure Tankish...
One of the reasons i cannot look back is that.. I Like to be the healer in every game i play so that system really ruined it for me.
Basically what you are on GW2 is a DPS with some optional healing skills and survival skills (ala tank).
All these just to not force you be the one or the other and wait endlessly on queues etc etc.
Even if some classes like the elementalist and guardian are more capable on healing skills still feel weak and that role is crippled and shallow and the overall mechanics of the "No Trinity" make it no viable to play as such and be able actually to be a true healer for you team... just an extra support via heals and so much weak overall that it isnt even worth it.. it needs to be a system that actually needs healing.
What they could do to "save" the game could be to allow any class to be able to take a pure role if they want if they tune their characters accordingly..
.... or you could learn how the game actually works, instead of trying to shoe-horn it into another WoW clone.
The amount of healing you can actually achieve in GW2 is actually pretty ridiculous atm. Perhaps even more than what Anet had originally intended. You just need to know what you are doing.
Take the elementalist for example. Maybe you picked up staff and thought 'well, i only have 2 group heals, in 1 attunement, lame. And they don't even heal much, they tic for like 100 hp every couple seconds. It's like nothing! And yet... they are also water fields.. And because of that, you can combo off of them. Your allies can combo off of them. And just like that, you're measly ~500 hp AoE heal turns into a massive, chain bursting 1000+ dmg aoe heal (that can burst multiple times). And you are now healing most of your allies health back with each field.
On top of this, you can stack boons (buffs) on your allies, giving them regen, protection, more dodge, more damage, etc. You can also help them out via crowd control. Crippling mobs, knocking them away, reflecting projectiles away from your allies, etc.
.. So are you a 'pure' healer? No. But u can still keep your allies alive. You can still play the caster-support role and boost up your team. What you can't do is sit in the back and spam health bars the whole fight, while you eat a sandwich and watch cartoons. You need to pay attention, and you need to work together.
And that is what GW2 is about, and why it doesn't force specialized trinity roles. It's built around comboing abilities off your teammates. And... actual teamwork. Instead of 5 people playing by themselves, together. Which is what most (if not all) trinity MMOs have become. A group of specialized characters, who barely have to communicate, and only really need to focus on what they themselves are doing. Occasionally something might happen, and you go 'oh crap! immergency skill!' and then you're back to your mindless button pressing.
It's fine if you like that, but that was never what GW2 was trying to be. And I, for one, am glad it isn't.
I haven't played GW2 for awhile but well that kind of healing was there almost since the start. And to be able to be somewhat viable need to regem everything with those price gems that is practicaly impossible to aquire as a new player or someone that does not grind the living world events all day.
Also In WoW that i Currently play healing is a big deal and if you think you can raid while eating and be viable then you haven't play. dungeon in wow are lame and easy and u can eat.. the real stuff like raiding are not.
Also funny that you mention communication. In WoW you cannot properly Raid on normal and heroic dungeons without ventrilo and the such. on Gw2 i have never felt that i needed to be on a vent just to win an encounter also because of that I have never made any significant ingame buddys in it. The only communication u can have and sometimes really fun one is on repeated events or elite hunting but thats it. GW2 is an endless grind and what for? for nothing... at least in WoW and other games you have the carrot in the stick and u progress your character through gearing up. In GW2 grind events over and over so u can affort mats and/or gold to get the legendary skin and that is all about. you getting no stronger in any way so u can go and play in the next TIER of content... Its super overcasual...at start i liked it but gets boring very fast....
GW2 no trinity system cannot allow a pure class such healer or pure dps or pure Tankish...
One of the reasons i cannot look back is that.. I Like to be the healer in every game i play so that system really ruined it for me.
Basically what you are on GW2 is a DPS with some optional healing skills and survival skills (ala tank).
All these just to not force you be the one or the other and wait endlessly on queues etc etc.
Even if some classes like the elementalist and guardian are more capable on healing skills still feel weak and that role is crippled and shallow and the overall mechanics of the "No Trinity" make it no viable to play as such and be able actually to be a true healer for you team... just an extra support via heals and so much weak overall that it isnt even worth it.. it needs to be a system that actually needs healing.
What they could do to "save" the game could be to allow any class to be able to take a pure role if they want if they tune their characters accordingly..
.... or you could learn how the game actually works, instead of trying to shoe-horn it into another WoW clone.
The amount of healing you can actually achieve in GW2 is actually pretty ridiculous atm. Perhaps even more than what Anet had originally intended. You just need to know what you are doing.
Take the elementalist for example. Maybe you picked up staff and thought 'well, i only have 2 group heals, in 1 attunement, lame. And they don't even heal much, they tic for like 100 hp every couple seconds. It's like nothing! And yet... they are also water fields.. And because of that, you can combo off of them. Your allies can combo off of them. And just like that, you're measly ~500 hp AoE heal turns into a massive, chain bursting 1000+ dmg aoe heal (that can burst multiple times). And you are now healing most of your allies health back with each field.
On top of this, you can stack boons (buffs) on your allies, giving them regen, protection, more dodge, more damage, etc. You can also help them out via crowd control. Crippling mobs, knocking them away, reflecting projectiles away from your allies, etc.
.. So are you a 'pure' healer? No. But u can still keep your allies alive. You can still play the caster-support role and boost up your team. What you can't do is sit in the back and spam health bars the whole fight, while you eat a sandwich and watch cartoons. You need to pay attention, and you need to work together.
And that is what GW2 is about, and why it doesn't force specialized trinity roles. It's built around comboing abilities off your teammates. And... actual teamwork. Instead of 5 people playing by themselves, together. Which is what most (if not all) trinity MMOs have become. A group of specialized characters, who barely have to communicate, and only really need to focus on what they themselves are doing. Occasionally something might happen, and you go 'oh crap! immergency skill!' and then you're back to your mindless button pressing.
It's fine if you like that, but that was never what GW2 was trying to be. And I, for one, am glad it isn't.
I haven't played GW2 for awhile but well that kind of healing was there almost since the start. And to be able to be somewhat viable need to regem everything with those price gems that is practicaly impossible to aquire as a new player or someone that does not grind the living world events all day.
I call bullshit, gold is easy to come by, especially after ascended gear got introduced and the yesterday's junk became precious trading item
Also In WoW that i Currently play healing is a big deal and if you think you can raid while eating and be viable then you haven't play. dungeon in wow are lame and easy and u can eat.. the real stuff like raiding are not.
Also funny that you mention communication. In WoW you cannot properly Raid on normal and heroic dungeons without ventrilo and the such. on Gw2 i have never felt that i needed to be on a vent just to win an encounter also because of that I have never made any significant ingame buddys in it. The only communication u can have and sometimes really fun one is on repeated events or elite hunting but thats it. GW2 is an endless grind and what for? for nothing... at least in WoW and other games you have the carrot in the stick and u progress your character through gearing up. In GW2 grind events over and over so u can affort mats and/or gold to get the legendary skin and that is all about. you getting no stronger in any way so u can go and play in the next TIER of content... Its super overcasual...at start i liked it but gets boring very fast....
Well dungeons are relatively easy in Gw2 as well. Its just that you can't eat a sandwich in them. Although, have you ever tried doing the great jungle wurm or tequatl without some sort of VoIP? I think not
Don't even let me start on WvW. In WvW a 3 times lesser blob can obliterate a larger blob just because there is a commander who knows what he's doing and is properly guiding the fight. Seen it happen hundreds of times. Youtube for more info if you do not believe me.
Also by playing Gw2 you get stronger. But not with stats, no no no. In WoW your stats take care of you and that is bullshit. In Gw2 you have to take care of yourself. That's the difference. And this is what you fail to understand. I'm pretty certain that any experienced player would kick your butt all over the place in white gear while you run around in ascended and rage about it
I feel like they could add a true healing class to this game now. I don't feel like it would create a "Trinity", but it would give players like myself a reason to make an alternate character. I would really love to see a buffing/healing class added to the game.
Give them just enough DPS to do some solo leveling in PvE and I would be set. I mostly play WvWvW so leveling would be no problem. I just really want to see a full healing class added to this game. I feel that is the only thing that is missing for me.
Play WoW... that's what you are looking for. Trinity based gaming. There is no need for dedicated roles in this game. It does just fine as it is.
The A.I. isn't built for a trinity, or even just a healer class. They would need to rework the A.I. first, and i don't see that happening anytime soon. Anet seems to be incapable of designing better A.I. mechanics. After all, the best they came up with is Unshakable and Defiance, which prevents even more skills, and are mostly rendered useless.
A pure healer class would trivialize everything. Nobody would ever die, except for when the A.I. does their 1-hit death skills, which is very few.
I could probably see it working in WvW & SPvP, but even then, it would change the dynamics of WvW & SPvP dramatically.
The problem with GW2 roles, is that there is only one viable role in PvE, and that's Berserker. Even if there was a healer role, nobody would want it. People want Berserker, because it's the role that does the most damage, and makes PvE mobs die faster. Stacking bosses in a corner, using melee, is the preferred playstyle in GW2, which even Anet has stated they don't see a problem with it, and anything else would just gimp the group.
Condition damage builds aren't as effective either, because conditions are maxed at 25, and also, because there isn't many condition-based traits that are worth it.
In many ways, GW2 is more limiting than a trinity-based MMO, since only one role is the most effective.
The A.I. isn't built for a trinity, or even just a healer class. They would need to rework the A.I. first, and i don't see that happening anytime soon. Anet seems to be incapable of designing better A.I. mechanics. After all, the best they came up with is Unshakable and Defiance, which prevents even more skills, and are mostly rendered useless.
A pure healer class would trivialize everything. Nobody would ever die, except for when the A.I. does their 1-hit death skills, which is very few.
I could probably see it working in WvW & SPvP, but even then, it would change the dynamics of WvW & SPvP dramatically.
The problem with GW2 roles, is that there is only one viable role in PvE, and that's Berserker. Even if there was a healer role, nobody would want it. People want Berserker, because it's the role that does the most damage, and makes PvE mobs die faster. Stacking bosses in a corner, using melee, is the preferred playstyle in GW2, which even Anet has stated they don't see a problem with it, and anything else would just gimp the group.
Condition damage builds aren't as effective either, because conditions are maxed at 25, and also, because there isn't many condition-based traits that are worth it.
In many ways, GW2 is more limiting than a trinity-based MMO, since only one role is the most effective.
That isn't even remotely true.
Reason why so many people run berserker in PvE is because:
A) Makes it easier to tag mobs during zerg battles
People want them for speed running dungeons
There are pleanty of other specs that are viable in PvE, and condition specs aren't even bad for most of the content. They take a hit during large zerg-boss fights, unless you use certain skills which guaruntee you get credit for all the conditions. Which I do quite often.
The only time condition builds become unviable, is when you have more than 2 in a group, and that is because they do end up overriding each other's damage. Toughness / clerics / knight's specs can also work very well for certain class.
Simply put, zerker is the meta that everyone runs with. That doesn't make it the only viable spec. It just makes it the one most players prefer.
I don't want a 'true Healer' class. I don't think this game is really made for it. I would like to see some more options though.
I keep seeing players post that Elementalist fits this bill but I have some problems with the class. The issues I have with Elementalist healing is for the most part, you won't be really doing a lot of healing. It essentially boils down to 2 skills while attuned to Water, using a staff. The first one (Staff 3) has a 20sec cooldown. The second one (Staff 5) has a 45sec cooldown. Those are your heals. That's some pretty hefty wait time if someone is looking to mainly heal. You can stay in the Water Attunement but the PBAoE regen, which I think you have to trait for, and the main attack skill (Staff 1) are so tiny that they're simply not worth it.
The second issue is that even though you're the one dropping the heals you won't be doing a majority of the actual healing. That is up to another class like an Engineer or a Shortbow Thief. The blasts are what matter and Elementalists don't really have a ton there. So most of that +healing gear you are wearing is useless. I can think of only 3 blasts, off the top of my head, that Elementalists have access to.
The third, and final, issue I have is the attunements. I really dislike this. You have to really stay on the ball and keep track of 16+ skill cooldowns (Not including the heal skill, 3 chosen skills, and Elite skill) to get the most out of the class. It made my time playing the class always feel rushed and chaotic. I am sure a lot of people love this, but I am equally sure that not everyone that wants to heal wants to do it like this.
I would love if they added a class like Bard. For instance you weave musical notes to give constant PBAoE boons and healing. As it stands with classes the healing and boons are, from my personal experience so feel free to tell me how wrong I am, too sporadic. Whether it's the long cooldowns, short durations, or sheer randomness (Looking at you Engineer) it all feels like something you do in-between playing a dps character. I have no interest in turning this game into most other MMORPGs out right now but I would also love to see more options for support.
I haven't played GW2 for awhile but well that kind of healing was there almost since the start. And to be able to be somewhat viable need to regem everything with those price gems that is practicaly impossible to aquire as a new player or someone that does not grind the living world events all day.
Also In WoW that i Currently play healing is a big deal and if you think you can raid while eating and be viable then you haven't play. dungeon in wow are lame and easy and u can eat.. the real stuff like raiding are not.
Also funny that you mention communication. In WoW you cannot properly Raid on normal and heroic dungeons without ventrilo and the such. on Gw2 i have never felt that i needed to be on a vent just to win an encounter also because of that I have never made any significant ingame buddys in it. The only communication u can have and sometimes really fun one is on repeated events or elite hunting but thats it. GW2 is an endless grind and what for? for nothing... at least in WoW and other games you have the carrot in the stick and u progress your character through gearing up. In GW2 grind events over and over so u can affort mats and/or gold to get the legendary skin and that is all about. you getting no stronger in any way so u can go and play in the next TIER of content... Its super overcasual...at start i liked it but gets boring very fast....
1) The runes you're talking about (I assume that's what you mean by 'price gems') really aren't that hard to get. I just started playing GW2 again after a long break (close to a year), and I'm now up to ~40g made in just the first day & a half back. This is all just from playing the game on max lvl content. I haven't tried to grind anything yet, I've just been exploring, doing events as they come, trying to get some achievements done and complete various skillpoints I missed back when I used to play. And then I sell all the crap the game just hands over to me, because the game literally just throws money at you. Heck I haven't even liquidated my karma yet, which will yield (at minimum) another 20g.
2) I have raided WoW, on multiple roles (tank, healer, and DPS) so I know just how 'difficult' they were, though I didn't do much tanking until later. I say were, because raids now are a joke. You don't need voice, you need to know the fights. You only really need voice to explain the fights to people that don't know them, or to explain a strat to people who aren't familiar. I can honestly say the same for GW2. While I don't consider the dungeons in GW2 to be more challenging, you can't just stroll up w/ a bunch of clueless noobs and expect to have a good time, either. You need to explain to them what they need to do.
The difference is, GW2 requires more engagement. You need to be more 'aware'. Aware of what you're doing, aware of what you're allies are doing, aware of what the enemy(s) doing. It's constantly in flux. There's a lot more dodging involved, there's combo fields you may need to trigger, there's timing you need to keep up with or else you tend to not have a CD when you really need it. And this gets compounded by the fact that most skills have a variety of uses. A lot of them can be used both offensively & defensively, so you need to constantly choose which is the more beneficial at the time.
In WoW (and many other games like it), it's mostly memorization. And what needs to be memorized gets simpler with each new raid it seems. The reason why healing (and tanking for that matter) seems more challenging in those games, is because more pressure is put on those roles. It's more noticeable if you screw up, and the group is severely limited to how much it can pick up the slack if you fail. If you are the type of person that does not do well under pressure, then indeed those roles would be more challenging. However, if you function fine under pressure, they really aren't any more challenging or complex as a DPS class. You just get noticed if you screw up your rotation, if you fat finger a heal, etc. Whereas if you screw up as a DPS, there are numerous others to pick up the slack.
In GW2 that pressure is individualized, but also shared across the entire group. If one player is better, it doesn't matter what class they are, they can carry the weight for the other players (even if they don't happen to be a healer).
Either way, it's been a LONG time since I've seen anything from WoW that demanded serious attention. Most of the raids people bring up when talking about WoW have long since become irrelevant. Maybe this'll change w/ the next expansion, but so far the dungeons I've seen don't look that complicated. I have raided while eating a sandwich, while eating pad thai, while eating pizza. After you understand the fights, they really don't require that much attention.
I don't want a 'true Healer' class. I don't think this game is really made for it. I would like to see some more options though.
I keep seeing players post that Elementalist fits this bill but I have some problems with the class. The issues I have with Elementalist healing is for the most part, you won't be really doing a lot of healing. It essentially boils down to 2 skills while attuned to Water, using a staff. The first one (Staff 3) has a 20sec cooldown. The second one (Staff 5) has a 45sec cooldown. Those are your heals. That's some pretty hefty wait time if someone is looking to mainly heal. You can stay in the Water Attunement but the PBAoE regen, which I think you have to trait for, and the main attack skill (Staff 1) are so tiny that they're simply not worth it.
The second issue is that even though you're the one dropping the heals you won't be doing a majority of the actual healing. That is up to another class like an Engineer or a Shortbow Thief. The blasts are what matter and Elementalists don't really have a ton there. So most of that +healing gear you are wearing is useless. I can think of only 3 blasts, off the top of my head, that Elementalists have access to.
The third, and final, issue I have is the attunements. I really dislike this. You have to really stay on the ball and keep track of 16+ skill cooldowns (Not including the heal skill, 3 chosen skills, and Elite skill) to get the most out of the class. It made my time playing the class always feel rushed and chaotic. I am sure a lot of people love this, but I am equally sure that not everyone that wants to heal wants to do it like this.
I would love if they added a class like Bard. For instance you weave musical notes to give constant PBAoE boons and healing. As it stands with classes the healing and boons are, from my personal experience so feel free to tell me how wrong I am, too sporadic. Whether it's the long cooldowns, short durations, or sheer randomness (Looking at you Engineer) it all feels like something you do in-between playing a dps character. I have no interest in turning this game into most other MMORPGs out right now but I would also love to see more options for support.
I agree, more options would be nice.
As for the elementalist, there are a few options, and it does depend on which weapons you are using.
For staff, you are correct about the obvious heals, but you also grant regen (and healing) when you swap to water (if you trait for it). You also get 20% cooldown reduction on your water spells (again if you trait for it). So you can lessen that wait time significantly.
Furthermore, you have access to a number of blast finishers as Ele:
1) They added a new heal, which is both a blast finisher AND an AoE burst heal. On a 25sec cooldown which can be reduced with traits
2) You have arcane wave, another blast finisher 30s cooldown, reduced with traits.
3) Earth: Eruption, 6sec cooldown, blast finisher. (so you would start in earth, place the blast, then swap to water for the heal)
If you're not a fan of the combo finisher / blast water field style of healing, you get other options from the other weapons.
In dagger/dagger you get a spammable heal breath, a burst heal splash, and a ton of blast finishers if u would rather burst someone else's water field. In scepter you get a long range, more potent heal + regen in a smaller AoE.
- I know it's not the same as a pocket healer from WoW, but it is quite a lot of healing when you get down to it. Plus you are also supporting your allies in a lot of other ways (by applying buffs, giving them combo fields to trigger really helpfully effects, or granting them auras).
It's never going to be 100% the same as a trinity pocket healer, but u can play the elementalist as a pure support class. Support just means you are doing more than just healing, you're providing CC, buffs, and healing all at once, by swapping between your skills effectively.
The A.I. isn't built for a trinity, or even just a healer class. They would need to rework the A.I. first, and i don't see that happening anytime soon. Anet seems to be incapable of designing better A.I. mechanics. After all, the best they came up with is Unshakable and Defiance, which prevents even more skills, and are mostly rendered useless.
A pure healer class would trivialize everything. Nobody would ever die, except for when the A.I. does their 1-hit death skills, which is very few.
I could probably see it working in WvW & SPvP, but even then, it would change the dynamics of WvW & SPvP dramatically.
The problem with GW2 roles, is that there is only one viable role in PvE, and that's Berserker. Even if there was a healer role, nobody would want it. People want Berserker, because it's the role that does the most damage, and makes PvE mobs die faster. Stacking bosses in a corner, using melee, is the preferred playstyle in GW2, which even Anet has stated they don't see a problem with it, and anything else would just gimp the group.
Condition damage builds aren't as effective either, because conditions are maxed at 25, and also, because there isn't many condition-based traits that are worth it.
In many ways, GW2 is more limiting than a trinity-based MMO, since only one role is the most effective.
That isn't even remotely true.
Reason why so many people run berserker in PvE is because:
A) Makes it easier to tag mobs during zerg battles
People want them for speed running dungeons
There are pleanty of other specs that are viable in PvE, and condition specs aren't even bad for most of the content. They take a hit during large zerg-boss fights, unless you use certain skills which guaruntee you get credit for all the conditions. Which I do quite often.
The only time condition builds become unviable, is when you have more than 2 in a group, and that is because they do end up overriding each other's damage. Toughness / clerics / knight's specs can also work very well for certain class.
Simply put, zerker is the meta that everyone runs with. That doesn't make it the only viable spec. It just makes it the one most players prefer.
Now that i think about it more, you are right. Viable was a poor choice of words. I should have said desirable. It still doesn't change the fact that there's a Beserker meta role. People will always want to use the path of least resistance, and the Berserker meta lets them do that. Anything else, and it's just wasting people's time.
Nah. If you want to play a healer then might I suggest a game that uses the trinity (which is just about every other fantasy MMO out there).
Is the MMO playerbase suffering that bad to where some want to convert one of the only fantasy MMOs that doesn't use the trinity into just like all of the others? Is there that much of a shortage of MMOs to choose from that has dedicated healer classes? I find that hard to believe.
Thats not the right answer.... Every other game around has trinity because it has prooven to work...
I don't think anyone is saying that the trinity mechanic doesn't work. Tired maybe, but it's not broken. However, it's not the "end all be all" of MMO design, which GW2 has proven THEIR design works as well.
I never said anything about wanting a Trinity. I just want a class that is dedicated to full support/healing and from what I have seen that is not possible.
Maybe I can try a Guardian. I tried Elementalist, but it was just weak and I'm an old man so it was way to complicated. If anyone can send me a "Healing" build for Guardian in a message I would appreciate it.
As for the guy who told me to play WoW... I would never go back to such a game after playing Guild Wars 2. GW2 surpassed WoW a long time ago.
I never said anything about wanting a Trinity. I just want a class that is dedicated to full support/healing and from what I have seen that is not possible.
Maybe I can try a Guardian. I tried Elementalist, but it was just weak and I'm an old man so it was way to complicated. If anyone can send me a "Healing" build for Guardian in a message I would appreciate it.
As for the guy who told me to play WoW... I would never go back to such a game after playing Guild Wars 2. GW2 surpassed WoW a long time ago.
The gaurdian is the best healer in the game, I stand by this cause in my guild we usually suck pretty much so we really need a healer and my guardian keeps the entire group alive.
I use power, toughness and healing power on my gear except for rings were I have vitality insteed to get my health up a bit but thats optional. I use superior runes of water on the gear.
I use mace/shield and staff as weapons with, sigils I use superior sigil of Life and energy.
My utility skills I use:
6# healing breeze, heals alot to entire team.
7#Save yourself, alot of good stuff from that one
8#signet of mercy, improves your healing and it's usefull to ress people who has been downed from a distance.
9#Santuary, bubbles whom you want and gives them alot of regen healing and at the same time protecs them from incomming damage.
0# Tome of currage, insaine healing for 20sec the number five gives every member full health and spamming the number one gives about 2000 healing / sec ut's just insaine.
This is my build that I have tweeked for along time, you should try it out and retweek it in anyway you want and if you find some improvements then plz share with me
I never said anything about wanting a Trinity. I just want a class that is dedicated to full support/healing and from what I have seen that is not possible.
Maybe I can try a Guardian. I tried Elementalist, but it was just weak and I'm an old man so it was way to complicated. If anyone can send me a "Healing" build for Guardian in a message I would appreciate it.
As for the guy who told me to play WoW... I would never go back to such a game after playing Guild Wars 2. GW2 surpassed WoW a long time ago.
The gaurdian is the best healer in the game, I stand by this cause in my guild we usually suck pretty much so we really need a healer and my guardian keeps the entire group alive.
I use power, toughness and healing power on my gear except for rings were I have vitality insteed to get my health up a bit but thats optional. I use superior runes of water on the gear.
I use mace/shield and staff as weapons with, sigils I use superior sigil of Life and energy.
My utility skills I use:
6# healing breeze, heals alot to entire team.
7#Save yourself, alot of good stuff from that one
8#signet of mercy, improves your healing and it's usefull to ress people who has been downed from a distance.
9#Santuary, bubbles whom you want and gives them alot of regen healing and at the same time protecs them from incomming damage.
0# Tome of currage, insaine healing for 20sec the number five gives every member full health and spamming the number one gives about 2000 healing / sec ut's just insaine.
This is my build that I have tweeked for along time, you should try it out and retweek it in anyway you want and if you find some improvements then plz share with me
I have a shout healing build on my Warrior. It's pretty effective for both condi removal and heals. Makes a big difference, perhaps only surpassed by a couple of eles spraying water fields in WvW.
I never said anything about wanting a Trinity. I just want a class that is dedicated to full support/healing and from what I have seen that is not possible.
Maybe I can try a Guardian. I tried Elementalist, but it was just weak and I'm an old man so it was way to complicated. If anyone can send me a "Healing" build for Guardian in a message I would appreciate it.
As for the guy who told me to play WoW... I would never go back to such a game after playing Guild Wars 2. GW2 surpassed WoW a long time ago.
The gaurdian is the best healer in the game, I stand by this cause in my guild we usually suck pretty much so we really need a healer and my guardian keeps the entire group alive.
I use power, toughness and healing power on my gear except for rings were I have vitality insteed to get my health up a bit but thats optional. I use superior runes of water on the gear.
I use mace/shield and staff as weapons with, sigils I use superior sigil of Life and energy.
My utility skills I use:
6# healing breeze, heals alot to entire team.
7#Save yourself, alot of good stuff from that one
8#signet of mercy, improves your healing and it's usefull to ress people who has been downed from a distance.
9#Santuary, bubbles whom you want and gives them alot of regen healing and at the same time protecs them from incomming damage.
0# Tome of currage, insaine healing for 20sec the number five gives every member full health and spamming the number one gives about 2000 healing / sec ut's just insaine.
This is my build that I have tweeked for along time, you should try it out and retweek it in anyway you want and if you find some improvements then plz share with me
I have a shout healing build on my Warrior. It's pretty effective for both condi removal and heals. Makes a big difference, perhaps only surpassed by a couple of eles spraying water fields in WvW.
I also have shouts as healing and condi removal on my warrior And I agree it's awesome but can't compaire to gaurdian healing but in pvp the warrior rocks this way.
I never said anything about wanting a Trinity. I just want a class that is dedicated to full support/healing and from what I have seen that is not possible.
Maybe I can try a Guardian. I tried Elementalist, but it was just weak and I'm an old man so it was way to complicated. If anyone can send me a "Healing" build for Guardian in a message I would appreciate it.
As for the guy who told me to play WoW... I would never go back to such a game after playing Guild Wars 2. GW2 surpassed WoW a long time ago.
The gaurdian is the best healer in the game, I stand by this cause in my guild we usually suck pretty much so we really need a healer and my guardian keeps the entire group alive.
I use power, toughness and healing power on my gear except for rings were I have vitality insteed to get my health up a bit but thats optional. I use superior runes of water on the gear.
I use mace/shield and staff as weapons with, sigils I use superior sigil of Life and energy.
My utility skills I use:
6# healing breeze, heals alot to entire team.
7#Save yourself, alot of good stuff from that one
8#signet of mercy, improves your healing and it's usefull to ress people who has been downed from a distance.
9#Santuary, bubbles whom you want and gives them alot of regen healing and at the same time protecs them from incomming damage.
0# Tome of currage, insaine healing for 20sec the number five gives every member full health and spamming the number one gives about 2000 healing / sec ut's just insaine.
This is my build that I have tweeked for along time, you should try it out and retweek it in anyway you want and if you find some improvements then plz share with me
This sounds good. I'm going to level my Guardan to 80 and give this a shot.
Comments
You can read my post (or various others on this thread) if you want the reasons as to why it's a bad idea.
He may not have elaborated, but that doesn't mean he's wrong either.
Old school trinity was tank, heal and crowd control. It has since been butchered by anyone trying to support their own arguments.
Honestly, depending on how far back u want to go, most of the 'oldschool' games didn't really have a trinity.
It was something the players themselves created in attempt to have 'optimal' groups for dungeons and the like. Once that happened you did have tank, healer, control. However, before long that changed into tank, heal, dps towards the end of EQ's reign.
Since then, that's been adopted by most traditional themeparks. EQ2, FFXI, WoW, etc. as CC became less and less a staple of gameplay, in favor of more and more dumbed down combat mechanics.
GW2 no trinity system cannot allow a pure class such healer or pure dps or pure Tankish...
One of the reasons i cannot look back is that.. I Like to be the healer in every game i play so that system really ruined it for me.
Basically what you are on GW2 is a DPS with some optional healing skills and survival skills (ala tank).
All these just to not force you be the one or the other and wait endlessly on queues etc etc.
Even if some classes like the elementalist and guardian are more capable on healing skills still feel weak and that role is crippled and shallow and the overall mechanics of the "No Trinity" make it no viable to play as such and be able actually to be a true healer for you team... just an extra support via heals and so much weak overall that it isnt even worth it.. it needs to be a system that actually needs healing.
What they could do to "save" the game could be to allow any class to be able to take a pure role if they want if they tune their characters accordingly..
For example with some respec every necro can be either pure dps,pure healer or pure tank if they want. so the groups can sort it out themselfs if they need to do something together.
As it is now,every class for pve are weak on what they do and feel shallow.
When they do something like that I might consider give it yet another shot... Bringing new living stories is pure rubbish for me and waste of resources. they could add classes,skills,races,houses,guild halls,guilds VS Guilds mechanisms/gameplay and more.
Also They could make World VS World a bit different like a mirror world exactly like the pve one but with guilds be able to build their guilds cities in that world wherever they want (or almost that) and make a system so the other guilds make sieges to take those castles etc for resources and other stuff ala darkfall for example but without that full loot... so many posibilities that are wasted on repeatedly doing the same thing...take the same castle on timer.. lose it..be able to do nothing with it if you have it..basicaly like a large scale BG... really pointless and boring...
.... or you could learn how the game actually works, instead of trying to shoe-horn it into another WoW clone.
The amount of healing you can actually achieve in GW2 is actually pretty ridiculous atm. Perhaps even more than what Anet had originally intended. You just need to know what you are doing.
Take the elementalist for example. Maybe you picked up staff and thought 'well, i only have 2 group heals, in 1 attunement, lame. And they don't even heal much, they tic for like 100 hp every couple seconds. It's like nothing! And yet... they are also water fields.. And because of that, you can combo off of them. Your allies can combo off of them. And just like that, you're measly ~500 hp AoE heal turns into a massive, chain bursting 1000+ dmg aoe heal (that can burst multiple times). And you are now healing most of your allies health back with each field.
On top of this, you can stack boons (buffs) on your allies, giving them regen, protection, more dodge, more damage, etc. You can also help them out via crowd control. Crippling mobs, knocking them away, reflecting projectiles away from your allies, etc.
.. So are you a 'pure' healer? No. But u can still keep your allies alive. You can still play the caster-support role and boost up your team. What you can't do is sit in the back and spam health bars the whole fight, while you eat a sandwich and watch cartoons. You need to pay attention, and you need to work together.
And that is what GW2 is about, and why it doesn't force specialized trinity roles. It's built around comboing abilities off your teammates. And... actual teamwork. Instead of 5 people playing by themselves, together. Which is what most (if not all) trinity MMOs have become. A group of specialized characters, who barely have to communicate, and only really need to focus on what they themselves are doing. Occasionally something might happen, and you go 'oh crap! immergency skill!' and then you're back to your mindless button pressing.
It's fine if you like that, but that was never what GW2 was trying to be. And I, for one, am glad it isn't.
I haven't played GW2 for awhile but well that kind of healing was there almost since the start. And to be able to be somewhat viable need to regem everything with those price gems that is practicaly impossible to aquire as a new player or someone that does not grind the living world events all day.
Also In WoW that i Currently play healing is a big deal and if you think you can raid while eating and be viable then you haven't play. dungeon in wow are lame and easy and u can eat.. the real stuff like raiding are not.
Also funny that you mention communication. In WoW you cannot properly Raid on normal and heroic dungeons without ventrilo and the such. on Gw2 i have never felt that i needed to be on a vent just to win an encounter also because of that I have never made any significant ingame buddys in it. The only communication u can have and sometimes really fun one is on repeated events or elite hunting but thats it. GW2 is an endless grind and what for? for nothing... at least in WoW and other games you have the carrot in the stick and u progress your character through gearing up. In GW2 grind events over and over so u can affort mats and/or gold to get the legendary skin and that is all about. you getting no stronger in any way so u can go and play in the next TIER of content... Its super overcasual...at start i liked it but gets boring very fast....
Play WoW... that's what you are looking for. Trinity based gaming. There is no need for dedicated roles in this game. It does just fine as it is.
The A.I. isn't built for a trinity, or even just a healer class. They would need to rework the A.I. first, and i don't see that happening anytime soon. Anet seems to be incapable of designing better A.I. mechanics. After all, the best they came up with is Unshakable and Defiance, which prevents even more skills, and are mostly rendered useless.
A pure healer class would trivialize everything. Nobody would ever die, except for when the A.I. does their 1-hit death skills, which is very few.
I could probably see it working in WvW & SPvP, but even then, it would change the dynamics of WvW & SPvP dramatically.
The problem with GW2 roles, is that there is only one viable role in PvE, and that's Berserker. Even if there was a healer role, nobody would want it. People want Berserker, because it's the role that does the most damage, and makes PvE mobs die faster. Stacking bosses in a corner, using melee, is the preferred playstyle in GW2, which even Anet has stated they don't see a problem with it, and anything else would just gimp the group.
Condition damage builds aren't as effective either, because conditions are maxed at 25, and also, because there isn't many condition-based traits that are worth it.
In many ways, GW2 is more limiting than a trinity-based MMO, since only one role is the most effective.
That isn't even remotely true.
Reason why so many people run berserker in PvE is because:
A) Makes it easier to tag mobs during zerg battles
There are pleanty of other specs that are viable in PvE, and condition specs aren't even bad for most of the content. They take a hit during large zerg-boss fights, unless you use certain skills which guaruntee you get credit for all the conditions. Which I do quite often.
The only time condition builds become unviable, is when you have more than 2 in a group, and that is because they do end up overriding each other's damage. Toughness / clerics / knight's specs can also work very well for certain class.
Simply put, zerker is the meta that everyone runs with. That doesn't make it the only viable spec. It just makes it the one most players prefer.
I don't want a 'true Healer' class. I don't think this game is really made for it. I would like to see some more options though.
I keep seeing players post that Elementalist fits this bill but I have some problems with the class. The issues I have with Elementalist healing is for the most part, you won't be really doing a lot of healing. It essentially boils down to 2 skills while attuned to Water, using a staff. The first one (Staff 3) has a 20sec cooldown. The second one (Staff 5) has a 45sec cooldown. Those are your heals. That's some pretty hefty wait time if someone is looking to mainly heal. You can stay in the Water Attunement but the PBAoE regen, which I think you have to trait for, and the main attack skill (Staff 1) are so tiny that they're simply not worth it.
The second issue is that even though you're the one dropping the heals you won't be doing a majority of the actual healing. That is up to another class like an Engineer or a Shortbow Thief. The blasts are what matter and Elementalists don't really have a ton there. So most of that +healing gear you are wearing is useless. I can think of only 3 blasts, off the top of my head, that Elementalists have access to.
The third, and final, issue I have is the attunements. I really dislike this. You have to really stay on the ball and keep track of 16+ skill cooldowns (Not including the heal skill, 3 chosen skills, and Elite skill) to get the most out of the class. It made my time playing the class always feel rushed and chaotic. I am sure a lot of people love this, but I am equally sure that not everyone that wants to heal wants to do it like this.
I would love if they added a class like Bard. For instance you weave musical notes to give constant PBAoE boons and healing. As it stands with classes the healing and boons are, from my personal experience so feel free to tell me how wrong I am, too sporadic. Whether it's the long cooldowns, short durations, or sheer randomness (Looking at you Engineer) it all feels like something you do in-between playing a dps character. I have no interest in turning this game into most other MMORPGs out right now but I would also love to see more options for support.
1) The runes you're talking about (I assume that's what you mean by 'price gems') really aren't that hard to get. I just started playing GW2 again after a long break (close to a year), and I'm now up to ~40g made in just the first day & a half back. This is all just from playing the game on max lvl content. I haven't tried to grind anything yet, I've just been exploring, doing events as they come, trying to get some achievements done and complete various skillpoints I missed back when I used to play. And then I sell all the crap the game just hands over to me, because the game literally just throws money at you. Heck I haven't even liquidated my karma yet, which will yield (at minimum) another 20g.
2) I have raided WoW, on multiple roles (tank, healer, and DPS) so I know just how 'difficult' they were, though I didn't do much tanking until later. I say were, because raids now are a joke. You don't need voice, you need to know the fights. You only really need voice to explain the fights to people that don't know them, or to explain a strat to people who aren't familiar. I can honestly say the same for GW2. While I don't consider the dungeons in GW2 to be more challenging, you can't just stroll up w/ a bunch of clueless noobs and expect to have a good time, either. You need to explain to them what they need to do.
The difference is, GW2 requires more engagement. You need to be more 'aware'. Aware of what you're doing, aware of what you're allies are doing, aware of what the enemy(s) doing. It's constantly in flux. There's a lot more dodging involved, there's combo fields you may need to trigger, there's timing you need to keep up with or else you tend to not have a CD when you really need it. And this gets compounded by the fact that most skills have a variety of uses. A lot of them can be used both offensively & defensively, so you need to constantly choose which is the more beneficial at the time.
In WoW (and many other games like it), it's mostly memorization. And what needs to be memorized gets simpler with each new raid it seems. The reason why healing (and tanking for that matter) seems more challenging in those games, is because more pressure is put on those roles. It's more noticeable if you screw up, and the group is severely limited to how much it can pick up the slack if you fail. If you are the type of person that does not do well under pressure, then indeed those roles would be more challenging. However, if you function fine under pressure, they really aren't any more challenging or complex as a DPS class. You just get noticed if you screw up your rotation, if you fat finger a heal, etc. Whereas if you screw up as a DPS, there are numerous others to pick up the slack.
In GW2 that pressure is individualized, but also shared across the entire group. If one player is better, it doesn't matter what class they are, they can carry the weight for the other players (even if they don't happen to be a healer).
Either way, it's been a LONG time since I've seen anything from WoW that demanded serious attention. Most of the raids people bring up when talking about WoW have long since become irrelevant. Maybe this'll change w/ the next expansion, but so far the dungeons I've seen don't look that complicated. I have raided while eating a sandwich, while eating pad thai, while eating pizza. After you understand the fights, they really don't require that much attention.
I agree, more options would be nice.
As for the elementalist, there are a few options, and it does depend on which weapons you are using.
For staff, you are correct about the obvious heals, but you also grant regen (and healing) when you swap to water (if you trait for it). You also get 20% cooldown reduction on your water spells (again if you trait for it). So you can lessen that wait time significantly.
Furthermore, you have access to a number of blast finishers as Ele:
1) They added a new heal, which is both a blast finisher AND an AoE burst heal. On a 25sec cooldown which can be reduced with traits
2) You have arcane wave, another blast finisher 30s cooldown, reduced with traits.
3) Earth: Eruption, 6sec cooldown, blast finisher. (so you would start in earth, place the blast, then swap to water for the heal)If you're not a fan of the combo finisher / blast water field style of healing, you get other options from the other weapons.
In dagger/dagger you get a spammable heal breath, a burst heal splash, and a ton of blast finishers if u would rather burst someone else's water field. In scepter you get a long range, more potent heal + regen in a smaller AoE.
- I know it's not the same as a pocket healer from WoW, but it is quite a lot of healing when you get down to it. Plus you are also supporting your allies in a lot of other ways (by applying buffs, giving them combo fields to trigger really helpfully effects, or granting them auras).
It's never going to be 100% the same as a trinity pocket healer, but u can play the elementalist as a pure support class. Support just means you are doing more than just healing, you're providing CC, buffs, and healing all at once, by swapping between your skills effectively.
Now that i think about it more, you are right. Viable was a poor choice of words. I should have said desirable. It still doesn't change the fact that there's a Beserker meta role. People will always want to use the path of least resistance, and the Berserker meta lets them do that. Anything else, and it's just wasting people's time.
I don't think anyone is saying that the trinity mechanic doesn't work. Tired maybe, but it's not broken. However, it's not the "end all be all" of MMO design, which GW2 has proven THEIR design works as well.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I never said anything about wanting a Trinity. I just want a class that is dedicated to full support/healing and from what I have seen that is not possible.
Maybe I can try a Guardian. I tried Elementalist, but it was just weak and I'm an old man so it was way to complicated. If anyone can send me a "Healing" build for Guardian in a message I would appreciate it.
As for the guy who told me to play WoW... I would never go back to such a game after playing Guild Wars 2. GW2 surpassed WoW a long time ago.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
these are my traits:
http://postimg.org/image/7jo4saxpv/
The gaurdian is the best healer in the game, I stand by this cause in my guild we usually suck pretty much so we really need a healer and my guardian keeps the entire group alive.
I use power, toughness and healing power on my gear except for rings were I have vitality insteed to get my health up a bit but thats optional. I use superior runes of water on the gear.
I use mace/shield and staff as weapons with, sigils I use superior sigil of Life and energy.
My utility skills I use:
6# healing breeze, heals alot to entire team.
7#Save yourself, alot of good stuff from that one
8#signet of mercy, improves your healing and it's usefull to ress people who has been downed from a distance.
9#Santuary, bubbles whom you want and gives them alot of regen healing and at the same time protecs them from incomming damage.
0# Tome of currage, insaine healing for 20sec the number five gives every member full health and spamming the number one gives about 2000 healing / sec ut's just insaine.
This is my build that I have tweeked for along time, you should try it out and retweek it in anyway you want and if you find some improvements then plz share with me
I have a shout healing build on my Warrior. It's pretty effective for both condi removal and heals. Makes a big difference, perhaps only surpassed by a couple of eles spraying water fields in WvW.
I also have shouts as healing and condi removal on my warrior
And I agree it's awesome but can't compaire to gaurdian healing but in pvp the warrior rocks this way.
This sounds good. I'm going to level my Guardan to 80 and give this a shot.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
According to your signature, you're already playing games that way. And "we" certainly don't want GW2 to play like that too.
GW2 combat doesn't work with a healer. Didn't at launch, and still doesn't. So no.
Remember that for trying out stuff, you can always take a few friends and go to the Mists.