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I have a new found respect for quest-heavy MMO games
GamersHeroes
Member Posts: 14
Hi guys,
So earlier today I get a message regarding an update for an upcoming MMO game, Lifeless. If you haven't heard of it, it's a zombie themed MMO for PC that promises detailed character progression, in-depth characters, story and quests, fortifications and a few other tidbits.
However, that's not what caught my eye. The Community Manager put up a new post revealing some details on the factions within the game but at the bottom of the post, he announced that the developers have launched a new community event that will allow players to create their own characters, quests and stories to get featured in the full game at launch.
Thread - http://rigid-soft.com/forums/threads/faction-lore-get-involved.599/
I've worked in the industry as a "journalist" for several years but I've always been curious to find out if there's other areas of the industry that would suit my talent (or lack of in many cases).
So I sat down to write 1 quest for an MMO. 3 hours later I finish. 3 hours?!? I developed 3 characters with 200-300 word backstory each and then explained the quest and added dialogue....
I'm always quick to moan about the lack of imagination in many of today's MMO quest systems but today I have a new found respect for story heavy MMO's that take questing seriously. This shit ain't easy 
How about you guys? Anyone going to give it a shot? What kind of story/event would you like to create and see in the full game?
From the forum post:
Lifeless is very much a community game - you guys have helped us shape Lifeless to what it is today. You all have very creative minds and we absolutely love some of the ideas you come up with.
What we would love for you to do, is come up with some characters of your own. It can be just one or even a whole family if you wish. We will then look at each story and the ones we enjoy the most will be added to the game and have quests created for them based on the backstory written by you!
If we can't decide, we will make a poll and let the community decide!
Make the stories as rich as possible - think about the character's name, age, relationships, family members (are they a lone ranger?), personality, career before the outbreak, tasks they do now, why they ended up in this particular faction and not the others etc...
Comments
I am pretty much over quest designing, level designing, world building, and general content creation. The most it ever made me was some free games, free early accesses, won a few competitions, and a bit of cash on the side (at the peak of my content creation only about $150 a month from it and half of that reinvested in making more). And when I do get inspired I tend to focus it into personal projects and amusements these days. It can be a fun hobby. But, mostly now. I just like to talk about games in general, play games, and give feedback on what is there.
I am not familiar with this upcoming title. But, I will check it out now. At the very least it might be a fun contest to watch and way in on if I decide I want to pick up the title when it releases. And, I like when companies do this (and don't charge for "the Privilege"...they are not charging for it are they?)
The usual quest design in MMO's goes something like this:
NPC: "Hi <player>, my <give reason>, could you go and <kill/collect> <amount> <mob type> <end reason>".
e.g. Hi Fuzzynuts, my dog had an expensive collar that I want back, but it was eaten by wolves, could you go and kill 10 of those wolves until you find the collar. It would help feed my children if I sell it.
Just change the variables around a couple of hundred times and there you are, that's modern quest design.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I can understand your fatigue on the matter. I've dabbled myself but my talents never amounted to anything close to $150 a month
This is more just a pen and paper thing. They don't appear to expect the community to model or doing any art etc, they're just tapping into the wider imagination of their community. Personally I think it's a great idea. Doesn't matter how creative or talented a design team is, a random fan could quite easily create something spectacular.
I believe the game itself costs $20 (roughly) but they are not charging for the privilege to submit ideas, no
Despite the fact I played the game for 5 hours after getting the Imperial Edition, I personally feel ESO breaks that formula, at least in regards to quality of story and content. Sure, it's still generalized in Kill X, Collect X and Speak with X quests, but it's far better detailed than most
That's the sad nature of MMO games today. Most of today's more popular MMORPG titles can hardly throw together 10-20 hours worth of story-driven (main campaign style) content, and the vast majority of quests are what you describe above as side quests and such.
I agree that dynamic/on-the-fly quests are far more interesting than the aforementioned side-quest spam, but still, shouldn't it be about the journey? If I just wanted to hit end-game and PvP I'd play a MOBA
good mmorg design ain't an easy thing to achieve
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
@Usualsuspect & BladeStrom
I can agree that too many MMORPG call Kill&Collect tasks, quests. And elect go no further then that on the matter. However, there are quite a few MMORPG that make questing significantly more dynamic. This is one of the major reasons Runescape is my MMORPG of choice. That game raised the bar for me on what I consider to be a real quest. From what I have seen on the Lifeless website and youtube channel now... I think it has the potential for much more dynamic questing then run-of-mill quests we tend to see far too often in many MMORPG. Weather they pull it off or not remains to be seen.
@GamersHeroes
That's a shame. Because, for me making assets was the funnest part of level/quest design. Any ways if you like content development.. If you are good at it. And, you want it to be a hobby that pays for itself...Second Life. And, really no more need be said on that, lmao.
In regards to Lifeless...This one (and it's hard to see myself say it about "Yet another Zombie Game") actually looks interesting. I did read some of their info, look over screen shots and watch their available videos. I might want to play this when/if it releases (I am not a big supporter of crowd funding). I left them some feedback in the comment section on their youtube channel about a feature they could add and potentially make money off of without pissing anyone off.
Or random dungeon in D3 for pve end-game.
May be that is the future. A short story campaign, then end-game modes like random dungeon or MOBA. That is how SP games are doing it, and they are pretty successful.
This actually sounds like a quest I would be interested in doing, but that's just me. See it's more about having a reason to do something than the content of the quest. I actually enjoy having a reason to kill X number of something (waiting for a drop) rather than just killing something so an XP bar, or a skill bar, or a challenge completes, so I can earn points to distribute for my character build, though I like all that too.
In other words I like mobs that drop things for a reason, it gives me a reason for doing what I'm doing, I also like minecraft style games, so give me a game with both damn it. 7 days to die is a great example (but its a single player multi-player game not an MMO).
I'm puzzled over all the quest hate lately, its almost like there is a generation of gamers now that done like to be told what to do. "How dare you give me something to do, I'm my own person, I set my own path". (Though its just as mindless).
You haven't seen the half of it. Sure, you can write one quest in three hours. And let's suppose for the sake of argument that it was a good quest.
Now try to write 100 quests. And try to make them all substantially different from each other. You've likely accumulated some creative ideas for what quests "should" do over the years. But you'll run out of interesting ideas quickly once you start actually trying to write quests.
Same with books, movies, most entertainment. But in truth much of Hollywood, and the MMO scene focus on big bright explosions, and not so much "writing".
R.I.P Kubrick
Thanks OP, checking the site out now. This is interesting, especially since I've played pen and paper RPG's before, and we helped DM / and helped our DM formulate the quests.
Reading now and will contribute any ideas afterwards
Quests are just designed poorly nowadays. To the point, all MMORPGs should have a main quest line that are given by relevant NPCs, the rest however should be side quests given by quests monitors a la SWG. For those who never playes SWG it had quest monitors that offered quests that ranged from "easy" to "very hard." These quest did not have pre-designed level areas to find the mobs to kill or items to fetch. The quest would simply be completed depending on their difficulty. The easier the quest, the lesser the distance to travel and XP/reward gained. The more difficult the quest the greater the distance to travel and XP/reward gained. There were no pre-requirements to do these quests. They were strictly voluntary. If you did not feel like doing them, you did not have to. IMHO, it is one of the reasons that made SWG so appealing. I think all MMORPGs would benefit by adopting this type of quest design.
And the sad thing, all that work goes entirely unnoticed, because when your only means of leveling is quest grinding, those quests are going to get ignored as people blow through them and do the same activity 400 times on their way tolevel cap.
And with the GPS mini maps and arrows yelling them what to do, they're not even going to read what you wrote.
Which is exactly why developers don't allot any meaningful resources to them. Its a vicious cycle.
Kinda makes you think when you know that all quests in the original Guildwars were written by 3 guys....
Myself, I do some pen and paper scenarios for conventions at times. That is many hours work.
The thing about MMO quests is that I wish they made fewer but longer (and harder) quests instead of loads of small ones, it would take the same time (if we ignore killing rats and bugs, they certainly wont take 3 hours to write). There are quests people remember and ones people forget the second they are completed (or even complete without even realize it) and the last ones should never be made.
here is a sandbox game that wants to add quest in the near feature. some of them player written. they launched contest:
https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?394032-Contest-Write-the-next-Darkfall-Quest-Discussion-Thread
SWOTOR gave them 300 million and they still couldn't make interesting quests.
I feel it most certainly is easy if can afford the time and money.There leis the problem ,it is always about the Benjamin's.
As to games that allow players to make the quests,i find that type of system to be extremely limited as witnessed by Neverwinter,i can't stand how boring those repetitive quests are.In NW every fight and every quest feels the same,the only way to make quality quests is by the developer and NOT by utilizing Storybrick's or some other form of automated system,it is by HARD work ...EFFORT !!.
The dialogue and story behind each quest would be easier if devs actually put some thought into their game LONG before they start to make it.You can't just wing the story as you go and start making up BS like calling it a Living Story.Get you entire game's Lore in order from the start and make those stories happen.
What makes me sad is that so many truly don't understand that the BEST story is what each player makes of his gaming experience,it is NOT the dialogue you follow and every other player follows that same dialogue.
The key to a good story is to bring the world to life and try to make it as realistic as possible or should i use the term "plausible".You need Eco systems,wandering NPC's with AI,Creatures that wander map to map to map instead of locked into their AA14 or BB45 area code.We need resources to be used up ,at least for long periods of time,that way it brings meaning to every quest you run.Fetch me some magic water...ok but the magic well is surrounded by Giants.You need to gather several players to combat those Giants.However they are strong to everything except Fire based weapons,so you need to craft those first.Then you need to FIND that Fire Elemental to capture it's magic to be able to imbue your weapons with Fire .ect ect,the story can be long and different for every player.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
No, most players couldn't care less about the quest text or the lore, they're only playing the game to have fun killing things. That's why developers don't waste time on things the overwhelming majority of players don't pay attention to. People try to blame the developers when it's the players that made it clear that it's a waste of time and resources to do these things.
Far too many people who are in the minority act like everyone ought to play the way they play. No, they ought to play the way everyone else does.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I lack the creativity, knowledge and patience to create 3D or art assets, I envy you there
In regards to Lifeless, I have to say that I totally agree. I have bought in to every bullshit promise laid out by every alpha and pre-release zombie game in the last 5 years, not one has managed to come close to what it proclaimed to be (just my opinion of course).
When I stumbled upon Lifeless I wasn't expecting much at all, in fact I'd convinced myself it was going to be garbage before I'd even analyzed any footage or gameplay. Stupid really as I should know better
The game doesn't look perfect but there's a good selection of really exciting features and the developers do seem to take community feedback and suggestions into consideration.
I wasn't aware Lifeless was crowd-funded. Are you certain? I recall having a brief look at all the typical big names in crowd-funding but never found it anywhere. To the best of my knowledge the developers have funded it themselves thus far. Can't even find any information about a third-party publisher anywhere
mmorpgs dont have quests, they have tasks and chores. I think its time to leave that behind and never bring it back. Make epic quests now. Nothing related to silly tasks.
quest =/= task.