Because by paying money you get a ton of Labor points already an even when you are offline you get them and players that do not pay get nothing offline and very few overall in comparison. That alone is enough to make it a huge difference in power between a paying and non-paying player, hence why i say it is pay to win.
It allows you to do more right away, I doesn't allow you to win. Free to play still has access to all the same gear, zones, levels, classes and skills as a paying player. The time frame gets shifted but then that is also true for people who can devote endless hours to playing the game. Is it fair for someone to get ahead early in the game just because they have no family or job commitment? Meh, who cares, you don't win by getting rich or being the first to hit 50 either. You win by getting to your goals, regardless if that takes you a day or a week or a month.
As for their being a substantive difference between a paying player and non-paying. I agree that lacking patron status does cut you off from a significant portion of the game. That is land ownership and it does hobble how much labor you get, necessarily. Fact is, sandbox games that use time gated systems such as labor are really best designed as pay to play systems. There is no really good way to handle free players in such a system because free accounts constitute an endless supply of potential free labor. So they have to necessarily be limited in very impactful ways. But then, if this game was pay to play, the free players simply wouldn't have a free option at all. Is that also pay to win? You can't win if you can't play the game after all.
The result is that you really have two separate games. The free game which gives you access to about 80% of ArcheAge and the pay for game which gives you everything. The nice thing about the free game is that you will at least have the option to earn your way into the full game if you are willing to put enough into the free game. It will just take you longer to get there. And no that doesn't mean you will be loosing any more than someone who enters the game months after release will be. It just means you will be in a different place. Learn to overcome.
Archeage is a subscription game and if you want to be a freeloader go for it but you get restricted.
offline labor for freeloader accounts would kill this game as people and bots will make thousands and thousands of accounts.
Now even a patron needs to micro manage their labor or work with their guild to get high labor intensive stuff done.
And its not that bad i went to the beta server to clock my time and get stuff done for the headstart so i cna take a plot of lands and measure how much time i needed to get stuff done.
2.5 days to get my small farm / large farm / clipper, only 2.5 days and i can do it faster if needed.
People just want evrything handed to them on day one and thats not going to happen.
I love this system and basicly i dont care about people who dont pay to support the studio's involved.
Better go play Neverwinter or some other free to play mmo as they are so much fun lol.
Archeage is the best mmo for people looking to get get into some deep crafting and exploring doing fun stuff that other mmo's seemt o have forgotten to deliver.
Other mmo's offer a carrot on a stick that you need to keep chasing where in Archeage you have freedom.
Everything you craft can be sold even the high end gear.
And pay to win ? damn.......those people who call it pay to win doesnt seem to get that it doesnt take much to kick ass in pvp.
Specialy when you are in a guild that knows how to rape people and play their class.
Labor isnt going to give you an edge in pvp, at level 44 you craft your last set from there on its luck based.
You can crit and crit and crit if lady fortune smiles upon you or you can have bad luck and craft a 100 times without a crit.
Oh and subscription mmo's pay to win now ? hahaahahahahahahaha /facepalm
I played the beta up to LVL 20 in the last beta and nothing about this game is innovative.
Graphics are not even as good as an old game such as Aion. They are actually bad when compared to newer games like Tera, FFXIV, ESO, Landmark and anything else considered a major MMO that I have tried or played in the last few years. They are not bad graphics, but nothing new to see and impress a player unless he has not played an MMO game in the last 5 years.
Game play over graphics, you've failed the first rule of MMORPG's.
Combat is the most basic and boring in any MMO also in the last few years. I was using Occultism and all I did literally no joke was press 3,3,3,3,3,3. I beat every enemy that way and even can run and press 3,3,3, and shoot things out of my back and win with no skill or effort. Tab target, no dodging, nothing new, just bad.
Try battling another player like that at level 30, see how far you get. Most of the skills are PVP oriented that you'll never need in PVE, but in PVP, nothing like tossing someone up in the air in a bubble and burn them down once they drop to the ground.
Labor Points make the game Pay to Win right now. As a free player you have a very limited amount of Labor Points. You need Labor points to do anything like gather, craft and pretty much anything important. If you Pay money, you get way more Labor points making you much more powerful, nothing else to say, paying money makes you a lot stronger, so it is a pay to win system. You cannot even get your quest rewards or loot you find without labor points, that disgusted me.
No, they don't. For the average player, you don't need more labor points than what you can earn on a daily basis as a patron, and as others have pointed out, buy 2 or 3 patron subs if you really want lots of labor points to spend.
Class system seems interesting, you can mix 3 classes and take spells from each one, I liked that. However up to LVL 20 I used just 1 spell, so didn't see the benefits really. I can see how it will help in PVP and later on if the game ever makes me use more spells though.
Again, get to level 30 and beyond, and go out into the contested zoned when they are at war, and you'll appreciate the skill trees much more.
Quest system is just the most basic, boring quests if any major MMO I have played. Every quest gave me something where I had to run no more than 20 feet away and click something or kill boring, easy enemies and run back and turn it in or run another 20 feet and turn it in. More basic and rudimentary than "kill 10 boars and come back to me" because in this game they point you to where every enemy is and its not far or difficult to do any quest.
Agreed, the quests do blow, but they provide cash, some gear now and then, and the main quest line provides stars so they are worth doing some. I've got a new level 25 I started on Saturday, and have done hardly any questing at all, all my leveling came from mining and refining for the most part.
There is nothing in this game from what I played to tell me it is better than any MMORPG out there, let alone one of the best how the hype led me to believe. Yes I know there is a lot more in the higher levels, but this game gives a terrible first impression to new players and will scare many away before they get to the level where thing supposedly open up and show the games depth.
Open sea combat, underwater diving and farming, gliding, submarines, integrated crafting system that makes the best items in the game, castle sieging, etc. Sure, none of these are unique, but they sure add a lot of fun to the game play.
So in the end this game was a big letdown and nothing close to the hype that was calling it a saviour to the MMORPG genre.
It is most certainly not the savior of the genre, but it is a very different gaming experience if you take the initiative to play it that way. If you chose to follow the predirected path, you will miss out, but this game has been more fun for me than any new title in the past 5 years.
Sure, it's not the best game ever, but if you give it half a chance, and try to step out of your box you may find more fun that you first realized.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This game is terrible all around, some very awesome features wrapped into some very terrible flaws and a very bad free to play model at its core. I tried to go back to it many times even just to check out whats new with the game, its too boring really. 150$ went to waste.
Keep defending the game to all the new people that will post here dissapointed of their experience.... entertaining to read all this.
Wildstar and eso got out way more content in the last few months than ArcheAge did in more than a year since release.... Lets not forget that this game is designed around P2W chinese mindset and communication between XL and Trion seems terrible. Cant blame XL tho, look the two clowns they need to deal with in their livestreams... They could very well work at my local McDonald.
Back to ESO and Dark Souls 2. Now thats quality game.
To get the best out of Archeage you need to get Patron!
I can imagine how frustrating it would be trying to get a free ride from this game and you will be missing out. The feeling alone for building your first boat from the materials you grew in your farm is worth a few $$.
I've not had as much fun since hunting baby Rancors and selling them in Corellia
The only thing I disagree with is the measly bag space and needing credits to expand them. Oh, and the lvl questing sucked but this game is not about questing.
So make this game just a sub game.
Oh, you have to get patron and sub together? No way - sorry. That is like paying extra for content.
The issue is that this F2P game is anything but free.
The issue is with F2P players expecting anything for free..."Murica!
Yes, you can play for free, but your limited in what you can do. Go figure. Greedy game companies trying to make money off a game. Fkers all of them!
P2W! Ahh. You can buy a potion that gives you 1k LP thats usable every 12 HOURS. OMG...P2W right there.
Graphics are quite good. Once you set your game to use DX11. Dont know why the default is DX9.
Gameplay is really nice. One thing tho. Its sad that most people play MMOs like single player games. It will not go well for you. Play ESO, or even WoW. Whatever MMO is flavor of the month.
The hardest thing about LP is the planning part. No way you say. I know. If you just spent all your LP willy nilly. Your screwed. Plan ahead for whatever you are goin to do. If your goin to build a boat. Look at the mat cost. Figure out what your goin to need, and how much LP it may cost.
Combat is good. Especially in PvP. Then its great. Fast, but with some strategies and skill needed.
Questing. Bleh. Do some quest. For the armors, and weapons. For some coin. There are better games for questing. Do green quest for Gilda Stars. Its deff not for Lore buffs.
Archeage is a subscription game and if you want to be a freeloader go for it but you get restricted.
offline labor for freeloader accounts would kill this game as people and bots will make thousands and thousands of accounts.
Now even a patron needs to micro manage their labor or work with their guild to get high labor intensive stuff done.
And its not that bad i went to the beta server to clock my time and get stuff done for the headstart so i cna take a plot of lands and measure how much time i needed to get stuff done.
2.5 days to get my small farm / large farm / clipper, only 2.5 days and i can do it faster if needed.
People just want evrything handed to them on day one and thats not going to happen.
I love this system and basicly i dont care about people who dont pay to support the studio's involved.
Better go play Neverwinter or some other free to play mmo as they are so much fun lol.
Archeage is the best mmo for people looking to get get into some deep crafting and exploring doing fun stuff that other mmo's seemt o have forgotten to deliver.
Other mmo's offer a carrot on a stick that you need to keep chasing where in Archeage you have freedom.
Everything you craft can be sold even the high end gear.
And pay to win ? damn.......those people who call it pay to win doesnt seem to get that it doesnt take much to kick ass in pvp.
Specialy when you are in a guild that knows how to rape people and play their class.
Labor isnt going to give you an edge in pvp, at level 44 you craft your last set from there on its luck based.
You can crit and crit and crit if lady fortune smiles upon you or you can have bad luck and craft a 100 times without a crit.
Oh and subscription mmo's pay to win now ? hahaahahahahahahaha /facepalm
Problem is, even if you do the 150 USD and the sub, you will still need to buy stuff in the CS. If you want to sell your house you built? Well that will cost in the CS. It is just one big cash grab and I thought ESO was bad....
Archeage is a subscription game and if you want to be a freeloader go for it but you get restricted.
offline labor for freeloader accounts would kill this game as people and bots will make thousands and thousands of accounts.
Now even a patron needs to micro manage their labor or work with their guild to get high labor intensive stuff done.
And its not that bad i went to the beta server to clock my time and get stuff done for the headstart so i cna take a plot of lands and measure how much time i needed to get stuff done.
2.5 days to get my small farm / large farm / clipper, only 2.5 days and i can do it faster if needed.
People just want evrything handed to them on day one and thats not going to happen.
I love this system and basicly i dont care about people who dont pay to support the studio's involved.
Better go play Neverwinter or some other free to play mmo as they are so much fun lol.
Archeage is the best mmo for people looking to get get into some deep crafting and exploring doing fun stuff that other mmo's seemt o have forgotten to deliver.
Other mmo's offer a carrot on a stick that you need to keep chasing where in Archeage you have freedom.
Everything you craft can be sold even the high end gear.
And pay to win ? damn.......those people who call it pay to win doesnt seem to get that it doesnt take much to kick ass in pvp.
Specialy when you are in a guild that knows how to rape people and play their class.
Labor isnt going to give you an edge in pvp, at level 44 you craft your last set from there on its luck based.
You can crit and crit and crit if lady fortune smiles upon you or you can have bad luck and craft a 100 times without a crit.
Oh and subscription mmo's pay to win now ? hahaahahahahahahaha /facepalm
Problem is, even if you do the 150 USD and the sub, you will still need to buy stuff in the CS. If you want to sell your house you built? Well that will cost in the CS. It is just one big cash grab and I thought ESO was bad....
So, yes, it is P2W.
So you're saying that even if I paid $150 plus sub I would have zero advantage over anyone else and I would still have to pay money through the cash shop. They give me ZERO advantage over other players. Sorry, that's not P2W. It's actually, quite literally, the opposite of PAY to WIN. If I can't explicitly purchase something that makes me more powerful than others in the game who haven't purchased that item through the CS, then it's not P2W.
Combat- Average. Only bad compared to innovative action combat MMOs like Neverwinter and Tera, and even then it's better than most tab-target MMOs.
Labor Points- The most controversial problem. Short answer is just subscribe and you won't have an issue. Plus you'll be able to own land, which is pretty darn helpful.
Rest of the game- Awesome.
Game looks amazing and lots of people are pretty hyped for it. It's in the top 10 sellers in Steam even though it's in Alpha/Closed Beta.
I was concerned about the p2w possibility but after playing it, there doesn't seem to be a real issue.
***
What I think they should do is give everyone access to patron status for the beta/alpha, with a message stating that labor point regen/ownership will be reduced if you don't subscribe come release.
This would give people a more accurate picture of what the game is really like and we'd probably see less of these dumb threads.
I played the beta up to LVL 20 in the last beta and nothing about this game is innovative...
100% uneducated opinion.
It's fine to dislike a game but at least have basic understanding of the games systems.
You failed to mention a single unique aspect of ArcheAge and there are many.
I would say just about every weakness in AA that the OP brings up are things that we all saw in the betas, there is no denying the LP system is controversial, the graphics rather dated, the combat dull (do you deny that?) the questing a chore, and though the OP doesn't mention any of those innovations we are looking forward to, the issue is that you have to get past the dull stuff before you see it. Many of us are worried a lot of beta players won't give AA enough of a try as a result, and for some, such "unique" features still won't be enough given the flaws.
Again this is all your opinion.
I have a very different opinion
LP system is not controversial - it is new to western gamers and not yet understood, as someone who has played AA since Korean launch to me the LP system makes perfect sense
The controversy is an objective fact, just because you don't think it should be doesn't alter the reality that many are not happy with it.
Graphics dated - not to me, I find them quite awesome
As this is subjective then if people are un-impressed, then that is the reality for them, your position doesn't alter that for them, I was thinking the same as the OP, XIV, ESO and Landmark seem better integrated and more consistent.
Combat dull - 100% disagree, AAs combat is deceptively complex in PvP
This is another issue of the game only getting better at higher levels, we've seen this so many times with other mmos in the last 5 yrs, I think it is time devs got to work on better progression,
Questing - tutorial, no questing in later levels period
For the first 30 lvls, that is a looooooong ass tutorial.
Again I understand someone hating ArcheAge - this is normal the game is not for everyone, no game is.
But passing off opinions as facts and not even having a good understanding of what you are disliking - that is a problem.
The OPs lack of knowledge of later game mechanics reflects a design flaw in the game. And I will end with pointed out that a lot of your rebuttals where subjective, so do not lecture on opinions as facts, no one was claiming impressions were anything but.
Archeage is a subscription game and if you want to be a freeloader go for it but you get restricted.
offline labor for freeloader accounts would kill this game as people and bots will make thousands and thousands of accounts.
Now even a patron needs to micro manage their labor or work with their guild to get high labor intensive stuff done.
And its not that bad i went to the beta server to clock my time and get stuff done for the headstart so i cna take a plot of lands and measure how much time i needed to get stuff done.
2.5 days to get my small farm / large farm / clipper, only 2.5 days and i can do it faster if needed.
People just want evrything handed to them on day one and thats not going to happen.
I love this system and basicly i dont care about people who dont pay to support the studio's involved.
Better go play Neverwinter or some other free to play mmo as they are so much fun lol.
Archeage is the best mmo for people looking to get get into some deep crafting and exploring doing fun stuff that other mmo's seemt o have forgotten to deliver.
Other mmo's offer a carrot on a stick that you need to keep chasing where in Archeage you have freedom.
Everything you craft can be sold even the high end gear.
And pay to win ? damn.......those people who call it pay to win doesnt seem to get that it doesnt take much to kick ass in pvp.
Specialy when you are in a guild that knows how to rape people and play their class.
Labor isnt going to give you an edge in pvp, at level 44 you craft your last set from there on its luck based.
You can crit and crit and crit if lady fortune smiles upon you or you can have bad luck and craft a 100 times without a crit.
Oh and subscription mmo's pay to win now ? hahaahahahahahahaha /facepalm
Problem is, even if you do the 150 USD and the sub, you will still need to buy stuff in the CS. If you want to sell your house you built? Well that will cost in the CS. It is just one big cash grab and I thought ESO was bad....
So, yes, it is P2W.
So you're saying that even if I paid $150 plus sub I would have zero advantage over anyone else and I would still have to pay money through the cash shop. They give me ZERO advantage over other players. Sorry, that's not P2W. It's actually, quite literally, the opposite of PAY to WIN. If I can't explicitly purchase something that makes me more powerful than others in the game who haven't purchased that item through the CS, then it's not P2W.
What I am saying is, that you have more advantage than a F2P player, if you bought the Founders pack and sub to it. Then you still HAVE to buy stuff from the CD to play, like sell your house. So, yes it is P2W - if you gain an advantage, then it is P2W.
I played the beta up to LVL 20 in the last beta and nothing about this game is innovative...
100% uneducated opinion.
It's fine to dislike a game but at least have basic understanding of the games systems.
You failed to mention a single unique aspect of ArcheAge and there are many.
I would say just about every weakness in AA that the OP brings up are things that we all saw in the betas, there is no denying the LP system is controversial, the graphics rather dated, the combat dull (do you deny that?) the questing a chore, and though the OP doesn't mention any of those innovations we are looking forward to, the issue is that you have to get past the dull stuff before you see it. Many of us are worried a lot of beta players won't give AA enough of a try as a result, and for some, such "unique" features still won't be enough given the flaws.
Again this is all your opinion.
I have a very different opinion
LP system is not controversial - it is new to western gamers and not yet understood, as someone who has played AA since Korean launch to me the LP system makes perfect sense
Graphics dated - not to me, I find them quite awesome
Combat dull - 100% disagree, AAs combat is deceptively complex in PvP
Questing - tutorial, no questing in later levels period
Again I understand someone hating ArcheAge - this is normal the game is not for everyone, no game is.
But passing off opinions as facts and not even having a good understanding of what you are disliking - that is a problem.
LP IS NOT ANYTHING NEW. It is similar to the Perfume system in Allods Online and it is the same P2W system. By that I mean, if you sub you get more LP and you can also buy one potion every 12 hours and use it - that is also P2W. I got my character to level 21 and found that I could not do much without the Labor Points and that is a travesty. I did not want to have my computer logged in 24 hrs a day, during the beta, just so I could max out the LP my character had.
The Graphics are decent but no great shakes. I was hoping that the armor, weapons had some diversity but I couldn't see it. Why? Because I didn't have enough gold or LP to actually be able to craft anything.
The glider while interesting is just MEH. I didn't find it very appealing or fun to use and I tried quite a bit. There are huge areas in this game that there are no mobs, no nothing. All are choked around the hubs of the game - that is similar to ESO. Landmark is a sandbox and it is also very hard to understand but at least you are in the sandbox from the beginning.
The tutorial is supposed to highlight the games systems. How does killing 5 rats, go here to NPC collect reward, move to next NPC a tutorial on the systems in the game? It is not. Call it what it is - basic grind elements. I can hear it now, "but at lvl 30 it all changes!!" I would prefer to see it earlier so it draws people in, not bores them silly. That is a huge flaw with this game as is the LH system.
I get you like this game, might even be considered a rabid FANBOI but there is nothing new or exciting about this game.
If you like it, have at it but don't expect many players to try it or enjoy it. It will be another niche game.
I thought the whole point of this game was the grief other players. At least that is what was screamed out in the AA forums.
The only problem with F2P is it brings all the scumbags in....by scumbag I don't mean "poor", I mean people who have a mindset that everything should be handed to them no questions asked.
F2P is not here for you to play the game forever. The model is here for you to "try" the game out. Not only do most of you guys want the WHOLE game for free, but then you want to tell the company to put nothing on the market place that you need.
If they did what most people are suggesting, then what would be the point of subbing at all?
I played the beta up to LVL 20 in the last beta and nothing about this game is innovative.
Graphics are not even as good as an old game such as Aion. They are actually bad when compared to newer games like Tera, FFXIV, ESO, Landmark and anything else considered a major MMO that I have tried or played in the last few years. They are not bad graphics, but nothing new to see and impress a player unless he has not played an MMO game in the last 5 years.
Combat is the most basic and boring in any MMO also in the last few years. I was using Occultism and all I did literally no joke was press 3,3,3,3,3,3. I beat every enemy that way and even can run and press 3,3,3, and shoot things out of my back and win with no skill or effort. Tab target, no dodging, nothing new, just bad.
Labor Points make the game Pay to Win right now. As a free player you have a very limited amount of Labor Points. You need Labor points to do anything like gather, craft and pretty much anything important. If you Pay money, you get way more Labor points making you much more powerful, nothing else to say, paying money makes you a lot stronger, so it is a pay to win system. You cannot even get your quest rewards or loot you find without labor points, that disgusted me.
Class system seems interesting, you can mix 3 classes and take spells from each one, I liked that. However up to LVL 20 I used just 1 spell, so didn't see the benefits really. I can see how it will help in PVP and later on if the game ever makes me use more spells though.
Quest system is just the most basic, boring quests if any major MMO I have played. Every quest gave me something where I had to run no more than 20 feet away and click something or kill boring, easy enemies and run back and turn it in or run another 20 feet and turn it in. More basic and rudimentary than "kill 10 boars and come back to me" because in this game they point you to where every enemy is and its not far or difficult to do any quest.
There is nothing in this game from what I played to tell me it is better than any MMORPG out there, let alone one of the best how the hype led me to believe. Yes I know there is a lot more in the higher levels, but this game gives a terrible first impression to new players and will scare many away before they get to the level where thing supposedly open up and show the games depth.
So in the end this game was a big letdown and nothing close to the hype that was calling it a saviour to the MMORPG genre.
OP -- So let me get a few things straight...
1. You played the game for one beta weekend (approximately 3 days)
2. The graphics are bad because you think so
3. You pressed one key and defeated every mob (that you reached in 3 days)
4. The game is good enough to play but not pay for and you deserve everything that paying people get and if you don't get it, it's impossible for me to win (what?)
5. Since I only pushed one button for all mobs I never tried anything else but it could be interesting
6. The games has quests like every other MMO but I didnt care to read and just went from question mark to question mark and found it boring.
7. This game plays like an MMO but I expected it to be the second coming of jesus of gaming so I dont see anything special about it.
Is that accurate? Because if so your argument is weak.
Fact is this game is NOT p2w, as nothing can be bought that helps you 'win' you can have things in cash shop that will help you along the way, but win nope--
Simple fact is this sounds like another free player who is moaning because the players that want / can subscribe get better perks.. well boo-fucking-who, I would suggest that a nice game for you to play is farmville this will allow you the same perks as other freebies..
If you dont like the game, dont play it, but dont pretend that your opinions are fact.... as the post above me has pointed out you have failed .
The problem with a lot of posters on this forum (and yes maybe i am included in this) is that they suffer from what i call the "Rupert Murdoch" syndrome, In that they report THEIR OPINION as fact, and not look at all sides of the story yes the game has faults, yes the game isn't quite as polished as some other games.
But to say that the mechanics are broken because they wont work as well for someone that pays subs against free is just being a freeloader who expects everything to be given them for no / little work - almost like society in general...
It's still pay to progress and if your mission in the game is to reach endgame, that'd be a win. I'm not annoyed that you have to can pay money and get extra benefits, but what's the point of a FREE TO PLAY if you can pay and be better than those FREE PLAYERS ? Companies use the term free to play as an excuse to hide unfair systems than make you invetably spend money and this is bullshit. Do it like GW2 no sub, no nothing, just one straight up payment and that's it, see if it calms your moneywhoring a bit.
Fact is this game is NOT p2w, as nothing can be bought that helps you 'win' you can have things in cash shop that will help you along the way, but win nope--
Simple fact is this sounds like another free player who is moaning because the players that want / can subscribe get better perks.. well boo-fucking-who, I would suggest that a nice game for you to play is farmville this will allow you the same perks as other freebies..
If you dont like the game, dont play it, but dont pretend that your opinions are fact.... as the post above me has pointed out you have failed .
The problem with a lot of posters on this forum (and yes maybe i am included in this) is that they suffer from what i call the "Rupert Murdoch" syndrome, In that they report THEIR OPINION as fact, and not look at all sides of the story yes the game has faults, yes the game isn't quite as polished as some other games.
But to say that the mechanics are broken because they wont work as well for someone that pays subs against free is just being a freeloader who expects everything to be given them for no / little work - almost like society in general...
It's still pay to progress and if your mission in the game is to reach endgame, that'd be a win. I'm not annoyed that you have to can pay money and get extra benefits, but what's the point of a FREE TO PLAY if you can pay and be better than those FREE PLAYERS ? Companies use the term free to play as an excuse to hide unfair systems than make you invetably spend money and this is bullshit. Do it like GW2 no sub, no nothing, just one straight up payment and that's it, see if it calms your moneywhoring a bit.
GW2 is all about the money grab, its just the fanatics refuse to admit it.
It's still pay to progress and if your mission in the game is to reach endgame, that'd be a win. I'm not annoyed that you have to can pay money and get extra benefits, but what's the point of a FREE TO PLAY if you can pay and be better than those FREE PLAYERS ? Companies use the term free to play as an excuse to hide unfair systems than make you invetably spend money and this is bullshit. Do it like GW2 no sub, no nothing, just one straight up payment and that's it, see if it calms your moneywhoring a bit.
No its pay to get stuff quicker. You can grind out stuff on a free account, make gold extremely slow and then buy in game time with that gold which effectively makes you a patron you can then use al the stuff you collected and start building land which as a patron you can now own. There is NOTHING stopping ANYONE from getting EVERYTHING the game has to offer for no cash at all. It just takes much much longer.
If everyone bought a single months subscription and started owning land immediately they would never have to buy another sub again (as long as they played the game alittle bit) because they woul;d make more than enough gold in those 30 days to buy the APEX in game currency items which allows you to also buy in game sub time which keeps you able to be called a 'praton' (subscriber).
People freak out mostly because they listen to someone who doesnt know what theyre talking about and continue to perpetuate the lies. A lot like Lotro. Sure that game nickle and dimes you to death on some things but if you sit there and play that game it pays for itself because the reward a lot of cash shop currency for anything and everything in that game. You can farm 400-500 credits a day in that game very easily. Does it take time? Sure but youre playing anyway.
The problem is people have backwards thinking and start thinking of it like a job and that they 'have' to do something to make a certain amount of currency. Not really, unless youre in a hurry just play the game and fill out stuff that you get close on naturally.
Thats the irony of the MO world now, everyone wants a game that will take them time to play and experience but then everyone wants all the best stuff and to see all the best content as fast as they can. No one takes their time in MMOs anymore, mostly due to some ill conceived notions and a lot to do with how games have been developed the past 10 years. Where is is all about 'end game' rather than about the game itself. Some games are trying to make it less about 'end game' and more about what you do getting there. problem is all the MMO monkeys have been trained by WoW and WoW clones to think none of that natters, all that matters is what you have at max level and how you improve yourself. Then ext game to come out that takes players 3 months to reach max level will be the best MMO to come out in the past 15 years. But since that game will never be released we're left with what we get.
The only problem with F2P is it brings all the scumbags in....by scumbag I don't mean "poor", I mean people who have a mindset that everything should be handed to them no questions asked.
F2P is not here for you to play the game forever. The model is here for you to "try" the game out. Not only do most of you guys want the WHOLE game for free, but then you want to tell the company to put nothing on the market place that you need.
If they did what most people are suggesting, then what would be the point of subbing at all?
Sub does not separate 'supposed scumbag' from regular players. You end up getting the 'Entitled' players and those are the ones that feel they deserve to be treated differently since they sub'd. That is a form of what you pointed out so there are scumbags no matter what you play, subs or not. That argument holds no water at all.
Archeage is a subscription game and if you want to be a freeloader go for it but you get restricted.
offline labor for freeloader accounts would kill this game as people and bots will make thousands and thousands of accounts.
Now even a patron needs to micro manage their labor or work with their guild to get high labor intensive stuff done.
1) How are people freeloaders if the game is advertised FREE TO PLAY?
2) Bots and gold farmers use stolen CC and/or accounts so the issue of paying for an account is not a problem for them.
F2P is to try out the game. Its the new word for Trial. You could play for free, but your just trying out the game. For a long time. Very long time.
I think Obama has ruined people. Free this, get free that. Nothing in Life is free. Somebody has to give for someone else to get. Somethimes that someone is you.
Archeage is a subscription game and if you want to be a freeloader go for it but you get restricted.
offline labor for freeloader accounts would kill this game as people and bots will make thousands and thousands of accounts.
Now even a patron needs to micro manage their labor or work with their guild to get high labor intensive stuff done.
1) How are people freeloaders if the game is advertised FREE TO PLAY?
2) Bots and gold farmers use stolen CC and/or accounts so the issue of paying for an account is not a problem for them.
So wait are you saying you honestly believe when a game is "Free to Play" that means you get access to 100% of the content in the game....for free....without paying a penny?
Well now I know for sure this thread has went to the ridiculous side, we are now blaming the current President of assisting in the ruination of MMO's LMAO......Shakes head. I have an Idea, if you are not happy with ArcheAge, go play one of the other zillion MMO's on the market. Hope you find one that works for you.
Here is something i got from the BETA FORUMS at AA hope this will clarify a bit about AA payment model:
For godness sake! People please, before you make a thread, read other threads about this... I responded to the exact same thing yesterday on a different thread... This game is ENTIRELY F2P. You can use the Apex system to get credits from gold and you can use these credits to buy patron access! So please tell me how this is not Free to play? Agreed you'll have to spend some in-game gold on it, but your problem was basicaly that patrons get more LP regen. Well news-flash: you can become a patron by not spending any rl money on it, which is more than you get with the current option in most MMO's: f2p model, with benefits for subs. Well here you don't even need to pay for sub content. So please look up some information and watch some streams before you start complaining about a problem that doesn't even excist
PS: for all the people who do realize that this is an option (subs or f2p people), you can copy-paste this when you see more of these threads, cause I'm getting a bit sick of responding them over and over again...
Here is something i got from the BETA FORUMS at AA hope this will clarify a bit about AA payment model:
For godness sake! People please, before you make a thread, read other threads about this... I responded to the exact same thing yesterday on a different thread... This game is ENTIRELY F2P. You can use the Apex system to get credits from gold and you can use these credits to buy patron access! So please tell me how this is not Free to play? Agreed you'll have to spend some in-game gold on it, but your problem was basicaly that patrons get more LP regen. Well news-flash: you can become a patron by not spending any rl money on it, which is more than you get with the current option in most MMO's: f2p model, with benefits for subs. Well here you don't even need to pay for sub content. So please look up some information and watch some streams before you start complaining about a problem that doesn't even excist
PS: for all the people who do realize that this is an option (subs or f2p people), you can copy-paste this when you see more of these threads, cause I'm getting a bit sick of responding them over and over again...
From my understanding about the apex system someone still have to buy that sub and sell it right? what happens down the line when noone is selling anymore, then i goes from free to play to free to try?
Comments
It allows you to do more right away, I doesn't allow you to win. Free to play still has access to all the same gear, zones, levels, classes and skills as a paying player. The time frame gets shifted but then that is also true for people who can devote endless hours to playing the game. Is it fair for someone to get ahead early in the game just because they have no family or job commitment? Meh, who cares, you don't win by getting rich or being the first to hit 50 either. You win by getting to your goals, regardless if that takes you a day or a week or a month.
As for their being a substantive difference between a paying player and non-paying. I agree that lacking patron status does cut you off from a significant portion of the game. That is land ownership and it does hobble how much labor you get, necessarily. Fact is, sandbox games that use time gated systems such as labor are really best designed as pay to play systems. There is no really good way to handle free players in such a system because free accounts constitute an endless supply of potential free labor. So they have to necessarily be limited in very impactful ways. But then, if this game was pay to play, the free players simply wouldn't have a free option at all. Is that also pay to win? You can't win if you can't play the game after all.
The result is that you really have two separate games. The free game which gives you access to about 80% of ArcheAge and the pay for game which gives you everything. The nice thing about the free game is that you will at least have the option to earn your way into the full game if you are willing to put enough into the free game. It will just take you longer to get there. And no that doesn't mean you will be loosing any more than someone who enters the game months after release will be. It just means you will be in a different place. Learn to overcome.
All die, so die well.
Archeage is a subscription game and if you want to be a freeloader go for it but you get restricted.
offline labor for freeloader accounts would kill this game as people and bots will make thousands and thousands of accounts.
Now even a patron needs to micro manage their labor or work with their guild to get high labor intensive stuff done.
And its not that bad i went to the beta server to clock my time and get stuff done for the headstart so i cna take a plot of lands and measure how much time i needed to get stuff done.
2.5 days to get my small farm / large farm / clipper, only 2.5 days and i can do it faster if needed.
People just want evrything handed to them on day one and thats not going to happen.
I love this system and basicly i dont care about people who dont pay to support the studio's involved.
Better go play Neverwinter or some other free to play mmo as they are so much fun lol.
Archeage is the best mmo for people looking to get get into some deep crafting and exploring doing fun stuff that other mmo's seemt o have forgotten to deliver.
Other mmo's offer a carrot on a stick that you need to keep chasing where in Archeage you have freedom.
Everything you craft can be sold even the high end gear.
And pay to win ? damn.......those people who call it pay to win doesnt seem to get that it doesnt take much to kick ass in pvp.
Specialy when you are in a guild that knows how to rape people and play their class.
Labor isnt going to give you an edge in pvp, at level 44 you craft your last set from there on its luck based.
You can crit and crit and crit if lady fortune smiles upon you or you can have bad luck and craft a 100 times without a crit.
Oh and subscription mmo's pay to win now ? hahaahahahahahahaha /facepalm
Sure, it's not the best game ever, but if you give it half a chance, and try to step out of your box you may find more fun that you first realized.
If not, enjoy whatever game you end up in.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This game is terrible all around, some very awesome features wrapped into some very terrible flaws and a very bad free to play model at its core. I tried to go back to it many times even just to check out whats new with the game, its too boring really. 150$ went to waste.
Keep defending the game to all the new people that will post here dissapointed of their experience.... entertaining to read all this.
Wildstar and eso got out way more content in the last few months than ArcheAge did in more than a year since release.... Lets not forget that this game is designed around P2W chinese mindset and communication between XL and Trion seems terrible. Cant blame XL tho, look the two clowns they need to deal with in their livestreams... They could very well work at my local McDonald.
Back to ESO and Dark Souls 2. Now thats quality game.
The issue is with F2P players expecting anything for free..."Murica!
Yes, you can play for free, but your limited in what you can do. Go figure. Greedy game companies trying to make money off a game. Fkers all of them!
P2W! Ahh. You can buy a potion that gives you 1k LP thats usable every 12 HOURS. OMG...P2W right there.
Graphics are quite good. Once you set your game to use DX11. Dont know why the default is DX9.
Gameplay is really nice. One thing tho. Its sad that most people play MMOs like single player games. It will not go well for you. Play ESO, or even WoW. Whatever MMO is flavor of the month.
The hardest thing about LP is the planning part. No way you say. I know. If you just spent all your LP willy nilly. Your screwed. Plan ahead for whatever you are goin to do. If your goin to build a boat. Look at the mat cost. Figure out what your goin to need, and how much LP it may cost.
Combat is good. Especially in PvP. Then its great. Fast, but with some strategies and skill needed.
Questing. Bleh. Do some quest. For the armors, and weapons. For some coin. There are better games for questing. Do green quest for Gilda Stars. Its deff not for Lore buffs.
Problem is, even if you do the 150 USD and the sub, you will still need to buy stuff in the CS. If you want to sell your house you built? Well that will cost in the CS. It is just one big cash grab and I thought ESO was bad....
So, yes, it is P2W.
So you're saying that even if I paid $150 plus sub I would have zero advantage over anyone else and I would still have to pay money through the cash shop. They give me ZERO advantage over other players. Sorry, that's not P2W. It's actually, quite literally, the opposite of PAY to WIN. If I can't explicitly purchase something that makes me more powerful than others in the game who haven't purchased that item through the CS, then it's not P2W.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Graphics- amazing for the performance.
Combat- Average. Only bad compared to innovative action combat MMOs like Neverwinter and Tera, and even then it's better than most tab-target MMOs.
Labor Points- The most controversial problem. Short answer is just subscribe and you won't have an issue. Plus you'll be able to own land, which is pretty darn helpful.
Rest of the game- Awesome.
Game looks amazing and lots of people are pretty hyped for it. It's in the top 10 sellers in Steam even though it's in Alpha/Closed Beta.
I was concerned about the p2w possibility but after playing it, there doesn't seem to be a real issue.
***
What I think they should do is give everyone access to patron status for the beta/alpha, with a message stating that labor point regen/ownership will be reduced if you don't subscribe come release.
This would give people a more accurate picture of what the game is really like and we'd probably see less of these dumb threads.
Excellent reply.
What I am saying is, that you have more advantage than a F2P player, if you bought the Founders pack and sub to it. Then you still HAVE to buy stuff from the CD to play, like sell your house. So, yes it is P2W - if you gain an advantage, then it is P2W.
No Kidding Sherlock, I think that is what the op just said
I thought the whole point of this game was the grief other players. At least that is what was screamed out in the AA forums.
1) How are people freeloaders if the game is advertised FREE TO PLAY?
2) Bots and gold farmers use stolen CC and/or accounts so the issue of paying for an account is not a problem for them.
The only problem with F2P is it brings all the scumbags in....by scumbag I don't mean "poor", I mean people who have a mindset that everything should be handed to them no questions asked.
F2P is not here for you to play the game forever. The model is here for you to "try" the game out. Not only do most of you guys want the WHOLE game for free, but then you want to tell the company to put nothing on the market place that you need.
If they did what most people are suggesting, then what would be the point of subbing at all?
OP -- So let me get a few things straight...
1. You played the game for one beta weekend (approximately 3 days)
2. The graphics are bad because you think so
3. You pressed one key and defeated every mob (that you reached in 3 days)
4. The game is good enough to play but not pay for and you deserve everything that paying people get and if you don't get it, it's impossible for me to win (what?)
5. Since I only pushed one button for all mobs I never tried anything else but it could be interesting
6. The games has quests like every other MMO but I didnt care to read and just went from question mark to question mark and found it boring.
7. This game plays like an MMO but I expected it to be the second coming of jesus of gaming so I dont see anything special about it.
Is that accurate? Because if so your argument is weak.
It's still pay to progress and if your mission in the game is to reach endgame, that'd be a win. I'm not annoyed that you have to can pay money and get extra benefits, but what's the point of a FREE TO PLAY if you can pay and be better than those FREE PLAYERS ? Companies use the term free to play as an excuse to hide unfair systems than make you invetably spend money and this is bullshit. Do it like GW2 no sub, no nothing, just one straight up payment and that's it, see if it calms your moneywhoring a bit.
GW2 is all about the money grab, its just the fanatics refuse to admit it.
No its pay to get stuff quicker. You can grind out stuff on a free account, make gold extremely slow and then buy in game time with that gold which effectively makes you a patron you can then use al the stuff you collected and start building land which as a patron you can now own. There is NOTHING stopping ANYONE from getting EVERYTHING the game has to offer for no cash at all. It just takes much much longer.
If everyone bought a single months subscription and started owning land immediately they would never have to buy another sub again (as long as they played the game alittle bit) because they woul;d make more than enough gold in those 30 days to buy the APEX in game currency items which allows you to also buy in game sub time which keeps you able to be called a 'praton' (subscriber).
People freak out mostly because they listen to someone who doesnt know what theyre talking about and continue to perpetuate the lies. A lot like Lotro. Sure that game nickle and dimes you to death on some things but if you sit there and play that game it pays for itself because the reward a lot of cash shop currency for anything and everything in that game. You can farm 400-500 credits a day in that game very easily. Does it take time? Sure but youre playing anyway.
The problem is people have backwards thinking and start thinking of it like a job and that they 'have' to do something to make a certain amount of currency. Not really, unless youre in a hurry just play the game and fill out stuff that you get close on naturally.
Thats the irony of the MO world now, everyone wants a game that will take them time to play and experience but then everyone wants all the best stuff and to see all the best content as fast as they can. No one takes their time in MMOs anymore, mostly due to some ill conceived notions and a lot to do with how games have been developed the past 10 years. Where is is all about 'end game' rather than about the game itself. Some games are trying to make it less about 'end game' and more about what you do getting there. problem is all the MMO monkeys have been trained by WoW and WoW clones to think none of that natters, all that matters is what you have at max level and how you improve yourself. Then ext game to come out that takes players 3 months to reach max level will be the best MMO to come out in the past 15 years. But since that game will never be released we're left with what we get.
Sub does not separate 'supposed scumbag' from regular players. You end up getting the 'Entitled' players and those are the ones that feel they deserve to be treated differently since they sub'd. That is a form of what you pointed out so there are scumbags no matter what you play, subs or not. That argument holds no water at all.
F2P is to try out the game. Its the new word for Trial. You could play for free, but your just trying out the game. For a long time. Very long time.
I think Obama has ruined people. Free this, get free that. Nothing in Life is free. Somebody has to give for someone else to get. Somethimes that someone is you.
So wait are you saying you honestly believe when a game is "Free to Play" that means you get access to 100% of the content in the game....for free....without paying a penny?
Here is something i got from the BETA FORUMS at AA hope this will clarify a bit about AA payment model:
For godness sake!
People please, before you make a thread, read other threads about this...
I responded to the exact same thing yesterday on a different thread...
This game is ENTIRELY F2P. You can use the Apex system to get credits from gold and you can use these credits to buy patron access!
So please tell me how this is not Free to play? Agreed you'll have to spend some in-game gold on it, but your problem was basicaly that patrons get more LP regen. Well news-flash: you can become a patron by not spending any rl money on it, which is more than you get with the current option in most MMO's: f2p model, with benefits for subs. Well here you don't even need to pay for sub content.
So please look up some information and watch some streams before you start complaining about a problem that doesn't even excist
PS: for all the people who do realize that this is an option (subs or f2p people), you can copy-paste this when you see more of these threads, cause I'm getting a bit sick of responding them over and over again...
PS-2: for those with access to beta forums there is a very nice story of 3 friends playing AA and there adventure in game, here is the link : http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?23582-A-Tale-of-Three-F2P-Friends
From my understanding about the apex system someone still have to buy that sub and sell it right? what happens down the line when noone is selling anymore, then i goes from free to play to free to try?