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carebares are dependant on pvpers, yet hate "forced pvp"
kuzseamer
Member Posts: 50
in swg there are two types of rewards you can get for quests, and all the other mmorpg i have played are the same.....the first being house decorations (which is the less of the two) and the second being an item related to combat.
stims, weapons, mods, clothing with mods, armor etc etc etc...... people loot these items then sell them for millions. and why do people buy them? you answer me, cause i am not sure, but i know who i see buying up the best weapons and such and that's the pvpers. they pay millions for these weapons so they stand a better chance against other players.
i can solo pretty much everyquest, and there is no quest where the uberist weapon matters. you just need a good weapon that you can buy pretty much anywhere. what matters is the strategy. and strategy is free...so why do i see so many people camping for the best robes with the best stats, you don't need them to solo the quests? in fact the quests they are doing to get the robes are the hardest in the game lol....it's like putting the cart before the horse in a sense....
well not really cause you do need the best modded robes and sabers/guns if you want to be able to compete in pvp. now that's not to say that everyone who camps for these weapons and such are pvpers.....some just want to get them and make lots of money..... but without pvpers to buy this stuff there is really no need for carebares to continue to do these missions is there......
pvpers provide the market for carebare playing..... once you level up your carebare and there's no pvpers to buy your loot and quest rewards, what do you do? would you buy the best weapon in the game if you dont' pvp? and if so why? to show off...."hey, i do more damage when i solo sher kar than you do when you solo sher kar.....so i'm cooler than you".... ok maybe, i know there are people like that.
but the truth imo is that a game is better for all if there are pvpers depending and waiting to buy the carebare loot.....and pvpers need a reason to pvp. they need the game to excite them to keep interested. carebares need to understand how pvpers think and realize that too keep them in the game buying there quest items (and giving them a reason to quest over and over) there has to be a sense of excitement related to the pvp part of the game. when you cry about things like "forced pvp" and then the devs start eliminating pvp game aspects as a result, you are in a way hurting the game for yourself, and diminishing the relationship between pvper and carebare.
to sum up, a game full of carebares in a war orientated game = disaster and short lived playability for all. you will often hear this phrase when people describe a mmorpg in this day and age :
"i loved leveling up, the characters were great and the quests were fun.....but after two weeks at the top level the game is boring.....i have nothing to do"
....you have to have a reson to play the game after you reach the top level, and that is were pvpers, and a well thought out pvp atmosphere can drive interest for both pvpers and carebares...giveing everyone a reason to continue to have fun.
Comments
Carebears don't need or rely on PvP's they need the carebares to supply them with mods/ships/ammo /armour/swords- and just about anything else.
Carebears would still get sales, albeit at a reduced pace, due to people losing ships to rats, every time they go on a mission they will need ammo, to repair/repalce lost weps swords armour etc etc
One group cannot exist in any happy degree, without the other - but the pvpers in any game need the carebears more than they need them.
P.S. in case you may not have guessed, I play EvE. That is PvP.
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No...sorry...all you've proven with your silly little rant is...
That PvPers are DRIVING UP the PRICES for good items...
Non-PvPers DO NOT NEED PvPers!! FULL STOP. (Totally proven by the fact that there are plenty of games where there's PvE and NO PvP, but very few the other way round...if any)
I PvP once in awhile, but I always "Play Nice", so I am considered a carebear.
I dont understand these PvPers are saying PvE is too easy.
If a mob is too easy for me, I find a higher lvl mob to hunt.
How can PvE mobs be too easy when there are always higher level mobs to hunt.
Can somebody explain me which idiot thought it was necisary to call all people who play MMORPG's for the PvE part should be called "Carebear"?
That would be me.
And I take high offense to your little "idiot" statement. You hurt my feelings.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
i will answer with a practical example taken by WoW from a friend of mine that has a 60 level dwarven warrior on Argent Dawn (EU).
He has NEVER done PvP and the server is a RP one, so with PvE ruleset.
He is fanatical with molten core, raiding the place day and night. His whole guild and raid community is, of course, the same.
He has acquired a few pieces of Tier 2 Epic armor and is going for the rest. what he will need the armor for? arguably nothing cause, at the moment, there is anything harder than molten core.
So why he does it? because he wants the items. why he wants the items? cause it is fun to get new items that look cool on your character.
There is no need for a second goal when you play a game, just that you want something and to get it you need to do XYZ. Most Epic items are BoP anyway in WoW so, there is no market involved with those.
He also raid for the community. he has found a group of people and like to go adventuring with them. Molten core is the hardest challenge in the game (ok.. maybe blackwing lair is... beside the point anycase) and so they pass their time trying their mettle there. PvP or PvPers has 0 effect or influence on them and if they would not exist, they would not even notice.
Is this an isolated case? i dare say not. It is ironic how you speak of Everquest in the first place, the game that started it all. EQ is primarily a PvE game, in the normal servers there is almost NO PVP WHATSOEVER AND SO NO PVPERS.
So how can you take THAT game as an example?
Finally, i don't think people, in a game, do things just for the reward as i said before. Surely having something to look forward to upgrade your character is nice (character advancement is a big point in all RPG i know of), but the challenge, the exploration of new places and the social aspect all can play parts in this.
So, no, PvPers are not essential to any game but pvp-centric ones. PvErs (please why you use the insulting term "carebears" and instead call the other group PvPers, IE: the polite term?) also are not essential to any game but PvE-centric.
Maybe a better definition would be Casual Vs Hardcore, but that is a discussion for another day.
Volkmar out
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Don't worry, it's part of the common ethug/griefer/cheater vocabulary and can be ignored since it's just a futile attempt to make the poster look like he'd be anything but the little whiner (but they don't do it exactly like I want! Stamps on the floor! You are all carebear! Lawl!) he behaves like....
TheSwan
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Maybe the title should be reworded people who play mmogs are dependent on griefers.
There, there, little fella, I'm sure he didn't mean it. You have to admit, though... the PvP on this board is some of the finest you've ever seen.
There, there, little fella, I'm sure he didn't mean it. You have to admit, though... the PvP on this board is some of the finest you've ever seen.
bah, next time we will have peopel complaining they can't loot post counts after a pk
LOL.
It is the minority who is dependant on the majority, not the other way around.
Unless you talk about soloers, but you werent talking about solo at all here.
I am a hardcore grouper and I try to be a fairly decent soloer. I can tell you that tons of casuals are my friends and rather compare to me than to some foreign PvPer (they can at least dream of beating me, I play the same game and we even can group
). Same apply for me, I rather compare to the ultimate hardcore carebear of doom than to some foreign gameplay, I respect a bigger bear while I scowl at ANY PvP enforcements(rewards are enforcement, no matter what Mythic propaganda machine says)! 
Hardcores PvPers have EvE, SoR and many other such games...WoW did understand PvE vs PvP concept extremely well...now they just need to understand a step further (won't happen, Blizzard can't innovate), a casual need to rule in casuals areas and be the best character someone can dream off, in that zone. But that seem to be beyond the grasp of the "creator race" (Verant) and all the other who emerge from them. Crushbone needs it hierarchy system!
No matter how good you ar ein najena, Guk or who know where, when you enter Crushbone, this system is dominant and nobody can be better than someone (a casual) who reach the top of it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
To me it looks as if there are two facts here...
PvP player just do not understand how someone can play PvE and have fun (or as much fun as they have in game)
PvE players cannot understand how someone can play PvP and have fun (or as much fun as they have in game)
BOTH are dependent on each other...though I agree that PvP'rs need that PvE crafter for all the best equipment (unless the game allows PvP looting). PvE players can be quite content playing without PvP'rs on the same server, true they might not get as much money from selling things, but the fun is in questing and grouping for quest to aqquire the product in the first place. They play and quest for that item because it's there!
PvP can be fun also but I find that it gets boring and falls into a series of grudge matches between people/clans.... and then becomes a score keeping game (Logon.... play 2 hours.... I killed 24 people and was only killed twice!!! YEAH ME!!!!) that exist solely to booost egos.
That being said there are people that play PvP that do not fit into that... I find these people the ones I honestly think have the most fun with a RPG... they tend to work in teams and strangely enough also seem to do a good deal of PvE type quests.
Point is ... Just enjoy the GAME, and don't rain on someone elses parade.
Or in the words of your Momma..... PLAY NICE---- SHARE-----GET ALONG-----act mature
Witty saying to amuse you goes here.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Eve-Online, EQ2, DnL, SWG (Dead), Guild Wars, Anarchy Online, EQ, DAoC, Planet Side, WoW, LOTR, Tabula Rasa.
I'll second that :P Logical posts in a PvE vs PvP thread are almost unheard of anymore =/ It's sad really, that we tend to try and rip each other's throats out so much. I like my PvE...I like my PvP (in limited doses). Don't really care what other people want to do in the game, as long as it's not being forced down my throat. Do whatcha want, just leave me out of it ^^
Well I guess someone does still play SWG.
So let me see if I get this straight..... PvE players farm for uber items that they don't need so that they can sell them to PvP players in exchange for gold that they.... don't need.... to buy better stuff with.... because.... they already have uber items......?
whatever.
Carebear's rely on PvP'rs? That's hilarious. If that were true then how come EQ1 has survived for so long?
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
Yes, many PvP ranters and death penalty advocates abound, but really we are just a subjugated minority that wants developers to hear our voices. I'm not mad at PvEers. Far from it. They have allowed the genre to evolve to this point, and anything subscription-based is no small feat.
What most of us who love PvP and death penalites want is choices, and if not equal representation through game design, then how about SOME representation? There is some supposed promise on the horizon...oh, hehe, sorry, bad choice of words and analogy...anyway.
We dont want the typical time-sink = power, world-fracturing level disparity, gear-centric, slave-machine that so many seem to enjoy.
Having fun without fear of death is soothing to some so that they can max out a game's content based on the above without worry and still be able to socialize.
But for the PvP purist, that is essentially pointless, and by extension, insulting because you are paying for a game AND a subscription to jump through hoops until what? There are no more hoops until the next expansion?
Admittedly, most of us fall somewhere in-between. All we are really wanting is choices.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
I just never understood why so called "hardcore pvp'ers" even play MMO's other than full out pvp ones. If you hate carebears go play a game where there are none and let people play the way they like to play.
I for one like to pvp some but not too much. Is it because I'm scared? I don't think so. It's because a lot of hardcore pvp'ers are annoying uber 1337 kiddies. I think that's why most carbears hate pvp.IMO
I dont remember getting called a carebear in UO....this must be another term derrived from the game of scum called "world of warcraft." Also mostly PVPers dont get what an mmorpg is about, it is to have fun with other people. not to ruin the games for people by shouting vulgar statements and saying you're "pro" just because you might be a higher level or have a better twink. It owuld be nice for mmorpgs to go back to the early days of EQ where you might find one guy who was vigilant ,but everyone else would be helping and would want ot have fun without having to kill another player.
I don't remember "carebear" in UO, either... at least not when I played... but it came about WAY before WoW. I just don't know exactly when....