Funny enough did I suggest something similar before STO launched... About everyone laughed at me.
But yes, a ship simulator would be a good idea if you want to make a Star trek multiplayer. Using crew of a ship instead of guilds and have the bridge, engine room, sickbay and transporter room would add way more ST feeling than a certain other game in that universe.
It would also open up for interesting PvP (ship Vs ship and even fleet battles) but the question is how many players you actually could fit in on a ship, everyone needs to have fun as well so there is a limit (you don't want to play the janitor except maybe if you run Red Dwarf instead).
I always said that a true Star Trek MMO ought to be more 'Second Life in space' and less 'Earth and Beyond-y' in order to attract the Star Wars fans. I'd play it...but the ship ought to be huge, with a lot of different areas and distractions (holodeck, ten-forward, engineering, cargo bays, etc.).
This is the kind of game where live, GMing ought to take a central role. The captain ought to be a Dev, who can set the immersive tone of the game.
Since I play STO mostly just for the Foundry, I'd love a setting you've described above Much better than an mmo-ifyed SFB.
nah .. if i play a ST game, i want to control my own ship, and certainly don't want other players as my bridge crew (and certainly i am not playing that engineer or weapons officer).
It is a disaster if you think a couple of strangers can coordinate and run a bridge without a lot of bickering and drama.
As long as it wasn't 100% focused on combat, yes. That's the main problem I have with the current Star Trek MMO. Star Trek is supposed to be focused on exploration, diplomacy and trade, not grinding mindless hordes of enemies, combat in a game like that should be like only boss type battles not a mundane occurrence.
Incidentally, OP, I backed a single player game on Kickstarter called The Mandate which seems right up this alley. It's a small studio so they can't get the rights to Star Trek IP but they have their own interesting lore and it's pretty much a bridge simulator RPG.
This is what i want too. I hate how un star trek online is. But would anyone but old farts play a real star trek game. The mmo kids today need to be killing things 24/7. And how about some missions on your ship like the shows were.
nah .. if i play a ST game, i want to control my own ship, and certainly don't want other players as my bridge crew (and certainly i am not playing that engineer or weapons officer).
It is a disaster if you think a couple of strangers can coordinate and run a bridge without a lot of bickering and drama.
Heck, a SP RPG will be a better game for me.
For once I agree with Nari. I don't see how it would work with players trying to take the different bridge roles. I mean that could be fun with a group of friends like in almost a pen and paper type setup but trying to co-ordinate it with random MMO people would be a nightmare.
I assumed OP meant every player would be a captain and your crew would be NPCs you could have little dialogues with like SWTOR which is basically what The Mandate will be . I think this is a better idea for a single player RPG or a pen and paper RPG than an MMO.
Basically you mean Star Fleet Battles over top of a sandbox universe?
F#CK YA! Count me in!
I was a hardcore tournament Star Fleet Battles player back in the day. The ultimate strategy game. The very first pc adaptation before Star Trek adopted it as their official game was a direct translation of the rules. Later games dumbed it down to unplayable. An updated engine over a sandbox universe would be amazing. I simply do not think any developer that had the balls to do it would have enough money and expertise to pull it off.
I'm a huge fan of SFB, I own every single expansion, every single Captain's Log, everything ADB ever made for the game, but I can't see that working as an MMO. It's a ship combat simulation. It's a great ship combat simulation, don't get me wrong, but that's not what an MMO is.
Sadly "what an MMO is" today is a game that is shallow and often fails right out of launch. I do not think today's template for an mmo is a successful plan. Why would it not work for an mmo? It is a space mmo and every single fantasy mmo based on small maps emulating a world is not something to template this game off of.
I already suggested it isn't something that would get made. It is too complex and only only a small percentage of the gaming population could adapt to it. It would not be brainless enough such as the case with most current mmos. I couldn't even imagine all SFB rules being implemented. Only a fraction of the core rules would be required as the game would incorporate so much more to make it a "universe".
The game would never be made anyway. It is a dream for those not afraid of complex games. That means likely less than 1% of gamers. People can't even play rpg's anymore. The trend today is ease of access like card games where no setup or imagination is required. There is a reason why most of the good role players I have played pnp games with are some of the most intelligent and imaginative people I have ever met (be them somewhat eccentric at times). It takes far too much investment of time and energy to design and play rpg campaigns for most to handle. It is an academic endeavor and most can't be bothered to pick up a book and read it today. Tactical and rpg games are for enthusiasts, not casual gamers looking for a distraction.
IMHO, the on-bridge action is the most easily-translatable to a game and, unfortunately, the least compelling long-term aspect of Star Trek. Voted "no". Now, if the game was a sandbox built on true exploration, real diplomacy, sensible trade, problem-solving and discovery; then I would have no problem with the "bridge" or PC crew aspect being an integral portion of it.
Funny enough did I suggest something similar before STO launched... About everyone laughed at me.
But yes, a ship simulator would be a good idea if you want to make a Star trek multiplayer. Using crew of a ship instead of guilds and have the bridge, engine room, sickbay and transporter room would add way more ST feeling than a certain other game in that universe.
It would also open up for interesting PvP (ship Vs ship and even fleet battles) but the question is how many players you actually could fit in on a ship, everyone needs to have fun as well so there is a limit (you don't want to play the janitor except maybe if you run Red Dwarf instead).
I believe a bridge simulator was the original original plan for STO, but it didn't work or something and they ended up switching developers. I think the concept would have a hard time working in a mmo. You know it's just he grouping problem all over again. Imagine if you had to be in a group to leave town and that is kind of how it might have to work. Unless you come up with a different game structure.
Funny enough did I suggest something similar before STO launched... About everyone laughed at me.
But yes, a ship simulator would be a good idea if you want to make a Star trek multiplayer. Using crew of a ship instead of guilds and have the bridge, engine room, sickbay and transporter room would add way more ST feeling than a certain other game in that universe.
It would also open up for interesting PvP (ship Vs ship and even fleet battles) but the question is how many players you actually could fit in on a ship, everyone needs to have fun as well so there is a limit (you don't want to play the janitor except maybe if you run Red Dwarf instead).
I believe a bridge simulator was the original original plan for STO, but it didn't work or something and they ended up switching developers. I think the concept would have a hard time working in a mmo. You know it's just he grouping problem all over again. Imagine if you had to be in a group to leave town and that is kind of how it might have to work. Unless you come up with a different game structure.
You would have to use a structure that is guild-like to pull it off, Putting 25 complete strangers and forcing them to work together would work even worse than pick up raids.
A static crew/guild is a very different matter, guilds have mastered very hard raids in other games and it is not that hard to work together.
The real problem as I see it is for people disliking large guilds. Shuttles and being on planets would severely limit the number of players that don't like being in medium sized guilds.
The question is if the idea wouldn't work better for another IP that have more smaller ships and some larger instead like Star wars (sorry trekkies). There player groups could have ships similar to Millenium falcon while larger guilds could have cruisers with fighters they could launch. Or Firefly for that matter, that IP would work fine as well.
In any cases there is no potential at all for soloplayers, but well for players that would like to own, modify and operate a large starship.
Funny enough did I suggest something similar before STO launched... About everyone laughed at me.
But yes, a ship simulator would be a good idea if you want to make a Star trek multiplayer. Using crew of a ship instead of guilds and have the bridge, engine room, sickbay and transporter room would add way more ST feeling than a certain other game in that universe.
It would also open up for interesting PvP (ship Vs ship and even fleet battles) but the question is how many players you actually could fit in on a ship, everyone needs to have fun as well so there is a limit (you don't want to play the janitor except maybe if you run Red Dwarf instead).
I believe a bridge simulator was the original original plan for STO, but it didn't work or something and they ended up switching developers. I think the concept would have a hard time working in a mmo. You know it's just he grouping problem all over again. Imagine if you had to be in a group to leave town and that is kind of how it might have to work. Unless you come up with a different game structure.
You would have to use a structure that is guild-like to pull it off, Putting 25 complete strangers and forcing them to work together would work even worse than pick up raids.
A static crew/guild is a very different matter, guilds have mastered very hard raids in other games and it is not that hard to work together.
The real problem as I see it is for people disliking large guilds. Shuttles and being on planets would severely limit the number of players that don't like being in medium sized guilds.
The question is if the idea wouldn't work better for another IP that have more smaller ships and some larger instead like Star wars (sorry trekkies). There player groups could have ships similar to Millenium falcon while larger guilds could have cruisers with fighters they could launch. Or Firefly for that matter, that IP would work fine as well.
In any cases there is no potential at all for soloplayers, but well for players that would like to own, modify and operate a large starship.
The biggest hurdle to any Star Trek game is the exploration part. It's just not possible on/in an MMO to satisfy some of the more vocal ST fans. Too much combat would lead to howls from the Trekies.. Ultimately any Star Trek game need to entertain and be a time sink of sorts. Some combination of various game could make it viable. You'd have to base it on an economy more then exploration and have conflict that drains and fuels that economy. Exploration will always be limited, games are finite and so are computers. The fall back has to be economic and combat . Which strays from what a lot of people view or hope from Star Trek. STO was an example of how not to do a Star Trek game. The design choice were for expedience. They had CO and just basically slapped a new skin on it. What would be required is something along the lines of ST:SFC series with elements of Bridge Commander , ST: EF series, SWG, Vanguard ( diplomacy mini game, but modified ) and EVE. And people still probably wouldn't be happy. Too much combat or not enough exploration. It's kind of a no win.
I'd love to play any game where multiple players control a single vessel. The only two other vessel games I've played were Eve and Pirates of The Burning Sea. And both of those companies contend that "all players want to be the captain." Well, not so. I want to be part of a crew; and if I get 'good enough' or enough resources, then I can get my own ship.
When a player logs in, they can choose to take their own ship out or join someone else's. In a way, the ship becomes the group.
BTW, 'grouping' in EVE and POTBS was always awkward, distant, and strategic. I prefer groups that are close and tactical.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Funny enough did I suggest something similar before STO launched... About everyone laughed at me.
But yes, a ship simulator would be a good idea if you want to make a Star trek multiplayer. Using crew of a ship instead of guilds and have the bridge, engine room, sickbay and transporter room would add way more ST feeling than a certain other game in that universe.
It would also open up for interesting PvP (ship Vs ship and even fleet battles) but the question is how many players you actually could fit in on a ship, everyone needs to have fun as well so there is a limit (you don't want to play the janitor except maybe if you run Red Dwarf instead).
I believe a bridge simulator was the original original plan for STO, but it didn't work or something and they ended up switching developers. I think the concept would have a hard time working in a mmo. You know it's just he grouping problem all over again. Imagine if you had to be in a group to leave town and that is kind of how it might have to work. Unless you come up with a different game structure.
You would have to use a structure that is guild-like to pull it off, Putting 25 complete strangers and forcing them to work together would work even worse than pick up raids.
A static crew/guild is a very different matter, guilds have mastered very hard raids in other games and it is not that hard to work together.
The real problem as I see it is for people disliking large guilds. Shuttles and being on planets would severely limit the number of players that don't like being in medium sized guilds.
The question is if the idea wouldn't work better for another IP that have more smaller ships and some larger instead like Star wars (sorry trekkies). There player groups could have ships similar to Millenium falcon while larger guilds could have cruisers with fighters they could launch. Or Firefly for that matter, that IP would work fine as well.
In any cases there is no potential at all for soloplayers, but well for players that would like to own, modify and operate a large starship.
I was actually imaging small groups of 5. You don't have every role or station playable. Just the big ones. You know weapons, shields, coms, helm, engineering. Though having optional sub stations might be a good idea. Stations that are nice to have maned, but that don't hurt if they are left automated or maned by people who have no idea what they are doing.
Maybe they can also make joining a crew mandatory almost. I am kind of imagining a strange monetary system were you can pay to have your own ship, or you can join the crew of someone else ship for free.
Though when it comes to IP. I was kind of musing something like FTL would kind of be neat as a mmo. They have rather small crews normally about 3-4.
Funny enough did I suggest something similar before STO launched... About everyone laughed at me.
But yes, a ship simulator would be a good idea if you want to make a Star trek multiplayer. Using crew of a ship instead of guilds and have the bridge, engine room, sickbay and transporter room would add way more ST feeling than a certain other game in that universe.
It would also open up for interesting PvP (ship Vs ship and even fleet battles) but the question is how many players you actually could fit in on a ship, everyone needs to have fun as well so there is a limit (you don't want to play the janitor except maybe if you run Red Dwarf instead).
I believe a bridge simulator was the original original plan for STO, but it didn't work or something and they ended up switching developers. I think the concept would have a hard time working in a mmo. You know it's just he grouping problem all over again. Imagine if you had to be in a group to leave town and that is kind of how it might have to work. Unless you come up with a different game structure.
You would have to use a structure that is guild-like to pull it off, Putting 25 complete strangers and forcing them to work together would work even worse than pick up raids.
A static crew/guild is a very different matter, guilds have mastered very hard raids in other games and it is not that hard to work together.
The real problem as I see it is for people disliking large guilds. Shuttles and being on planets would severely limit the number of players that don't like being in medium sized guilds.
The question is if the idea wouldn't work better for another IP that have more smaller ships and some larger instead like Star wars (sorry trekkies). There player groups could have ships similar to Millenium falcon while larger guilds could have cruisers with fighters they could launch. Or Firefly for that matter, that IP would work fine as well.
In any cases there is no potential at all for soloplayers, but well for players that would like to own, modify and operate a large starship.
I was actually imaging small groups of 5. You don't have every role or station playable. Just the big ones. You know weapons, shields, coms, helm, engineering. Though having optional sub stations might be a good idea. Stations that are nice to have maned, but that don't hurt if they are left automated or maned by people who have no idea what they are doing.
Maybe they can also make joining a crew mandatory almost. I am kind of imagining a strange monetary system were you can pay to have your own ship, or you can join the crew of someone else ship for free.
Though when it comes to IP. I was kind of musing something like FTL would kind of be neat as a mmo. They have rather small crews normally about 3-4.
The point of a bridge simulator is to put the player in control of the entire ship. It is very easy to do so. As discussed earlier Star Fleet Battles does just that. You are in control of the entire ship and it's systems. You play the role of Captain, Science Officer, Engineer, etc. You might be able to specialize into a "legendary" role for specific bonuses perhaps (also covered in SFB). To put several players in one ship only leads to tedium and complexity. If you are Captain then your crew is at your disposal. They are no different than automated systems. They are trained to do their job.
Everyone must also remember that few Star Ships are fully military in function (well ok perhaps Klingons have a shit ton). Players could easily play the game entirely as a science or engineering vessel Captain. All the systems you control are no different and easily manageable as proven in SFB. Gaining access to true war ships would be heavily restricted and bound by policy and politics. The current Star Trek Online is an arcade game and not a reflection of the Star Trek universe.
nah .. if i play a ST game, i want to control my own ship, and certainly don't want other players as my bridge crew (and certainly i am not playing that engineer or weapons officer).
It is a disaster if you think a couple of strangers can coordinate and run a bridge without a lot of bickering and drama.
Heck, a SP RPG will be a better game for me.
For once I agree with Nari. I don't see how it would work with players trying to take the different bridge roles. I mean that could be fun with a group of friends like in almost a pen and paper type setup but trying to co-ordinate it with random MMO people would be a nightmare.
I assumed OP meant every player would be a captain and your crew would be NPCs you could have little dialogues with like SWTOR which is basically what The Mandate will be . I think this is a better idea for a single player RPG or a pen and paper RPG than an MMO.
If he means a NPC crew, then it is already done in STO.
Funny enough did I suggest something similar before STO launched... About everyone laughed at me.
But yes, a ship simulator would be a good idea if you want to make a Star trek multiplayer. Using crew of a ship instead of guilds and have the bridge, engine room, sickbay and transporter room would add way more ST feeling than a certain other game in that universe.
It would also open up for interesting PvP (ship Vs ship and even fleet battles) but the question is how many players you actually could fit in on a ship, everyone needs to have fun as well so there is a limit (you don't want to play the janitor except maybe if you run Red Dwarf instead).
I believe a bridge simulator was the original original plan for STO, but it didn't work or something and they ended up switching developers. I think the concept would have a hard time working in a mmo. You know it's just he grouping problem all over again. Imagine if you had to be in a group to leave town and that is kind of how it might have to work. Unless you come up with a different game structure.
You would have to use a structure that is guild-like to pull it off, Putting 25 complete strangers and forcing them to work together would work even worse than pick up raids.
A static crew/guild is a very different matter, guilds have mastered very hard raids in other games and it is not that hard to work together.
The real problem as I see it is for people disliking large guilds. Shuttles and being on planets would severely limit the number of players that don't like being in medium sized guilds.
The question is if the idea wouldn't work better for another IP that have more smaller ships and some larger instead like Star wars (sorry trekkies). There player groups could have ships similar to Millenium falcon while larger guilds could have cruisers with fighters they could launch. Or Firefly for that matter, that IP would work fine as well.
In any cases there is no potential at all for soloplayers, but well for players that would like to own, modify and operate a large starship.
I was actually imaging small groups of 5. You don't have every role or station playable. Just the big ones. You know weapons, shields, coms, helm, engineering. Though having optional sub stations might be a good idea. Stations that are nice to have maned, but that don't hurt if they are left automated or maned by people who have no idea what they are doing.
Maybe they can also make joining a crew mandatory almost. I am kind of imagining a strange monetary system were you can pay to have your own ship, or you can join the crew of someone else ship for free.
Though when it comes to IP. I was kind of musing something like FTL would kind of be neat as a mmo. They have rather small crews normally about 3-4.
The point of a bridge simulator is to put the player in control of the entire ship. It is very easy to do so. As discussed earlier Star Fleet Battles does just that. You are in control of the entire ship and it's systems. You play the role of Captain, Science Officer, Engineer, etc. You might be able to specialize into a "legendary" role for specific bonuses perhaps (also covered in SFB). To put several players in one ship only leads to tedium and complexity. If you are Captain then your crew is at your disposal. They are no different than automated systems. They are trained to do their job.
Everyone must also remember that few Star Ships are fully military in function (well ok perhaps Klingons have a shit ton). Players could easily play the game entirely as a science or engineering vessel Captain. All the systems you control are no different and easily manageable as proven in SFB. Gaining access to true war ships would be heavily restricted and bound by policy and politics. The current Star Trek Online is an arcade game and not a reflection of the Star Trek universe.
So if that is what it is, dose EVE count? Why doesn't Star trek online count? Would FTL count?
Here's the thing about Star Trek fans though...they are fanatical roleplayers. They, quite literally, would be so grateful just to be in a StarFleet uniform, they wouldn't even care about being the captain of the ship.
Heck...how many fan bases can you think of that actually construct a friggin language so that they can LARP as "authentic" Klingons, for Heaven's sake?
I think the problem here for a lot of us is that we are so wedded to this thought that we have to make it like a competition, or like a PvP or PvE combat simulator...mainly because that's all our MMOs have been about.
But I think this is the wrong way to approach a Star Trek game like the one we're describing. What Trekkies are hungry for aren't battles, necessarily, but to wear the pointed ears, put on the uniform, go through the Klingon rite of MajQa, have intrigue with the Tal'Shiar and generally just play dress up and make believe. And the reason I know this is because they already do.
...But they don't have the environment for it to really 'stick' when they play dress up at the convention hall. They want a virtual reality, and they'll take it from there.
I'm willing to be you that if you just give them a couple of detailed "sets" (Enterprise, DS/9, perhaps a Klingon D-7, a couple of worlds like Star Fleet Academy, Vulcan, and a couple of generic freighters), a rudimentary DIKU-based MUDlike combat system (it don't even have to be good), a ton of clothes, species and avatar options from the series, charge them $30 bucks a month or charge them via cash store (You want to be a Trill? Pay $5 and have at it, Hoss!), this game would be the freaking bomb for every Trekkie, geek or LARPer from 15-70 in the whole world. They'd bankrupt themselves in there...mark my words.
That's what we're not seeing. That's why I think you can't design a Star Trek game like a 'game'...you have to design it like a animated chatroom, and let the Trekkies do the rest.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Here's the thing about Star Trek fans though...they are fanatical roleplayers. They, quite literally, would be so grateful just to be in a StarFleet uniform, they wouldn't even care about being the captain of the ship.
Heck...how many fan bases can you think of that actually construct a friggin language so that they can LARP as "authentic" Klingons, for Heaven's sake?
I think the problem here for a lot of us is that we are so wedded to this thought that we have to make it like a competition, or like a PvP or PvE combat simulator...mainly because that's all our MMOs have been about.
But I think this is the wrong way to approach a Star Trek game like the one we're describing. What Trekkies are hungry for aren't battles, necessarily, but to wear the pointed ears, put on the uniform, go through the Klingon rite of MajQa, have intrigue with the Tal'Shiar and generally just play dress up and make believe. And the reason I know this is because they already do.
..
Yeah, But you're still gonna have to deal with the random group finder putting you under the command of "Captain Pwnsurface" for the next 3 hours which would make it hard to roleplay. I don't see a starship bridge Star Trek MMO working very well but maybe it's a utopian setting that I can actually see a PVE sandbox working without feeling forced or anti-lore. Why would you have a ton of PVP in a Star Trek game unless maybe it was a border region?
Here's the thing about Star Trek fans though...they are fanatical roleplayers. They, quite literally, would be so grateful just to be in a StarFleet uniform, they wouldn't even care about being the captain of the ship.
Heck...how many fan bases can you think of that actually construct a friggin language so that they can LARP as "authentic" Klingons, for Heaven's sake?
I think the problem here for a lot of us is that we are so wedded to this thought that we have to make it like a competition, or like a PvP or PvE combat simulator...mainly because that's all our MMOs have been about.
But I think this is the wrong way to approach a Star Trek game like the one we're describing. What Trekkies are hungry for aren't battles, necessarily, but to wear the pointed ears, put on the uniform, go through the Klingon rite of MajQa, have intrigue with the Tal'Shiar and generally just play dress up and make believe. And the reason I know this is because they already do.
..
Yeah, But you're still gonna have to deal with the random group finder putting you under the command of "Captain Pwnsurface" for the next 3 hours which would make it hard to roleplay. I don't see a starship bridge Star Trek MMO working very well but maybe it's a utopian setting that I can actually see a PVE sandbox working without feeling forced or anti-lore. Why would you have a ton of PVP in a Star Trek game unless maybe it was a border region?
Frankly, I don't think that Captain Pwnsurface would stay very long...it would be too boring for him. There'd be no loot for him to score, no ladder ranking for him to climb and no grisly trophies of his victims for him to keep.
This proposed Star Trek simulator is a whole other animal from the kinds of MMOs we are used to...it is more of a "MUSH" style experience (Multi-user shared hallucination) than a "MUD" style experience (Multi-user dungeon). To say that it has more in common with Second Life (where Captain Pwnsurface is definately not hanging out) is on the right track.
You might have some PvE areas...maybe a Borg ship you could explore or a Gorn homeworld you could sneak into. But I see those sorts of PvE encounters as more of a set for some creative GMing to take place.
I don't know how you can have this kind of game without some kind of PvP...if it isn't in the combat system, it'll be text-fought out in any event, so it might as well be in there. Besides, if we have sickbay, we have to have some reason to put people there.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I don't know how you can have this kind of game without some kind of PvP...if it isn't in the combat system, it'll be text-fought out in any event, so it might as well be in there. Besides, if we have sickbay, we have to have some reason to put people there.
Thing is I can't picture typical MMO PVP in a Star Trek setting. Star Trek (at least if you're going to set it in the TNG era) is very orderly. I don't remember hearing about big swarms of pirates flying around. I'm sure the federation would deal with them if there were and you're not going to have random Romulan or Borg or whatever ships flying around picking fights with federation captains. If there was PVP it should be huge scale epic fleet battles explained and planned for in the game's story (which would be completely awesome if the game could pull it off) but Star Trek also gives a unique opportunity for those who want an MMO not focused on combat because that world almost uniquely has a strong utopian bent which would make an almost totally peaceful MMO society make sense.
I don't know how you can have this kind of game without some kind of PvP...if it isn't in the combat system, it'll be text-fought out in any event, so it might as well be in there. Besides, if we have sickbay, we have to have some reason to put people there.
Thing is I can't picture typical MMO PVP in a Star Trek setting. Star Trek (at least if you're going to set it in the TNG era) is very orderly. I don't remember hearing about big swarms of pirates flying around. I'm sure the federation would deal with them if there were and you're not going to have random Romulan or Borg or whatever ships flying around picking fights with federation captains. If there was PVP it should be huge scale epic fleet battles explained and planned for in the game's story (which would be completely awesome if the game could pull it off) but Star Trek also gives a unique opportunity for those who want an MMO not focused on combat because that world almost uniquely has a strong utopian bent which would make an almost totally peaceful MMO society make sense.
I wasn't thinking of PvP on such a grand scale.
But I can think of a plot device, a player-generated mystery, where a Star Fleet ensign is actually a spy for the Cardassians. He gets discovered making a transmission in a cargo bay, he pulls out his phaser, and he shoots the person who overheard it. The person is unconscious in sick bay, while the rest of the crew is wondering who did it.
Now in order for this kind of event to take place, there has to be a kind of way to injure or incapacitate a player...that's what I meant by "PvP"...you can attack other players.
This is the kind of player-generated content I used to enjoy back in the MUSH days, and it was happening all around, every day. And it's the kind of thing that I think Trekkies want from a Star Trek game.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Comments
Funny enough did I suggest something similar before STO launched... About everyone laughed at me.
But yes, a ship simulator would be a good idea if you want to make a Star trek multiplayer. Using crew of a ship instead of guilds and have the bridge, engine room, sickbay and transporter room would add way more ST feeling than a certain other game in that universe.
It would also open up for interesting PvP (ship Vs ship and even fleet battles) but the question is how many players you actually could fit in on a ship, everyone needs to have fun as well so there is a limit (you don't want to play the janitor except maybe if you run Red Dwarf instead).
Since I play STO mostly just for the Foundry, I'd love a setting you've described above
Much better than an mmo-ifyed SFB.
nah .. if i play a ST game, i want to control my own ship, and certainly don't want other players as my bridge crew (and certainly i am not playing that engineer or weapons officer).
It is a disaster if you think a couple of strangers can coordinate and run a bridge without a lot of bickering and drama.
Heck, a SP RPG will be a better game for me.
This is what i want too. I hate how un star trek online is. But would anyone but old farts play a real star trek game. The mmo kids today need to be killing things 24/7. And how about some missions on your ship like the shows were.
For once I agree with Nari. I don't see how it would work with players trying to take the different bridge roles. I mean that could be fun with a group of friends like in almost a pen and paper type setup but trying to co-ordinate it with random MMO people would be a nightmare.
I assumed OP meant every player would be a captain and your crew would be NPCs you could have little dialogues with like SWTOR which is basically what The Mandate will be . I think this is a better idea for a single player RPG or a pen and paper RPG than an MMO.
Sadly "what an MMO is" today is a game that is shallow and often fails right out of launch. I do not think today's template for an mmo is a successful plan. Why would it not work for an mmo? It is a space mmo and every single fantasy mmo based on small maps emulating a world is not something to template this game off of.
I already suggested it isn't something that would get made. It is too complex and only only a small percentage of the gaming population could adapt to it. It would not be brainless enough such as the case with most current mmos. I couldn't even imagine all SFB rules being implemented. Only a fraction of the core rules would be required as the game would incorporate so much more to make it a "universe".
The game would never be made anyway. It is a dream for those not afraid of complex games. That means likely less than 1% of gamers. People can't even play rpg's anymore. The trend today is ease of access like card games where no setup or imagination is required. There is a reason why most of the good role players I have played pnp games with are some of the most intelligent and imaginative people I have ever met (be them somewhat eccentric at times). It takes far too much investment of time and energy to design and play rpg campaigns for most to handle. It is an academic endeavor and most can't be bothered to pick up a book and read it today. Tactical and rpg games are for enthusiasts, not casual gamers looking for a distraction.
You stay sassy!
yes ,but only in gama & delta quadrants ,alpha & beta should stay clean with ST lore & ip
IMHO, the on-bridge action is the most easily-translatable to a game and, unfortunately, the least compelling long-term aspect of Star Trek. Voted "no". Now, if the game was a sandbox built on true exploration, real diplomacy, sensible trade, problem-solving and discovery; then I would have no problem with the "bridge" or PC crew aspect being an integral portion of it.
Edited for grammar 'n stuff.
I believe a bridge simulator was the original original plan for STO, but it didn't work or something and they ended up switching developers. I think the concept would have a hard time working in a mmo. You know it's just he grouping problem all over again. Imagine if you had to be in a group to leave town and that is kind of how it might have to work. Unless you come up with a different game structure.
You would have to use a structure that is guild-like to pull it off, Putting 25 complete strangers and forcing them to work together would work even worse than pick up raids.
A static crew/guild is a very different matter, guilds have mastered very hard raids in other games and it is not that hard to work together.
The real problem as I see it is for people disliking large guilds. Shuttles and being on planets would severely limit the number of players that don't like being in medium sized guilds.
The question is if the idea wouldn't work better for another IP that have more smaller ships and some larger instead like Star wars (sorry trekkies). There player groups could have ships similar to Millenium falcon while larger guilds could have cruisers with fighters they could launch. Or Firefly for that matter, that IP would work fine as well.
In any cases there is no potential at all for soloplayers, but well for players that would like to own, modify and operate a large starship.
You mean something similar to this: http://www.artemis.eochu.com/
I have some friends that played it and said it was quite fun.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
The biggest hurdle to any Star Trek game is the exploration part. It's just not possible on/in an MMO to satisfy some of the more vocal ST fans. Too much combat would lead to howls from the Trekies.. Ultimately any Star Trek game need to entertain and be a time sink of sorts. Some combination of various game could make it viable. You'd have to base it on an economy more then exploration and have conflict that drains and fuels that economy. Exploration will always be limited, games are finite and so are computers. The fall back has to be economic and combat . Which strays from what a lot of people view or hope from Star Trek. STO was an example of how not to do a Star Trek game. The design choice were for expedience. They had CO and just basically slapped a new skin on it. What would be required is something along the lines of ST:SFC series with elements of Bridge Commander , ST: EF series, SWG, Vanguard ( diplomacy mini game, but modified ) and EVE. And people still probably wouldn't be happy. Too much combat or not enough exploration. It's kind of a no win.
I'd love to play any game where multiple players control a single vessel. The only two other vessel games I've played were Eve and Pirates of The Burning Sea. And both of those companies contend that "all players want to be the captain." Well, not so. I want to be part of a crew; and if I get 'good enough' or enough resources, then I can get my own ship.
When a player logs in, they can choose to take their own ship out or join someone else's. In a way, the ship becomes the group.
BTW, 'grouping' in EVE and POTBS was always awkward, distant, and strategic. I prefer groups that are close and tactical.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I was actually imaging small groups of 5. You don't have every role or station playable. Just the big ones. You know weapons, shields, coms, helm, engineering. Though having optional sub stations might be a good idea. Stations that are nice to have maned, but that don't hurt if they are left automated or maned by people who have no idea what they are doing.
Maybe they can also make joining a crew mandatory almost. I am kind of imagining a strange monetary system were you can pay to have your own ship, or you can join the crew of someone else ship for free.
Though when it comes to IP. I was kind of musing something like FTL would kind of be neat as a mmo. They have rather small crews normally about 3-4.
The point of a bridge simulator is to put the player in control of the entire ship. It is very easy to do so. As discussed earlier Star Fleet Battles does just that. You are in control of the entire ship and it's systems. You play the role of Captain, Science Officer, Engineer, etc. You might be able to specialize into a "legendary" role for specific bonuses perhaps (also covered in SFB). To put several players in one ship only leads to tedium and complexity. If you are Captain then your crew is at your disposal. They are no different than automated systems. They are trained to do their job.
Everyone must also remember that few Star Ships are fully military in function (well ok perhaps Klingons have a shit ton). Players could easily play the game entirely as a science or engineering vessel Captain. All the systems you control are no different and easily manageable as proven in SFB. Gaining access to true war ships would be heavily restricted and bound by policy and politics. The current Star Trek Online is an arcade game and not a reflection of the Star Trek universe.
You stay sassy!
If he means a NPC crew, then it is already done in STO.
I wouldn't.
If finding a tank is difficult now, imagine trying to find someone to play the engineer when 90% of the players are captains. I will pass.
So if that is what it is, dose EVE count? Why doesn't Star trek online count? Would FTL count?
Here's the thing about Star Trek fans though...they are fanatical roleplayers. They, quite literally, would be so grateful just to be in a StarFleet uniform, they wouldn't even care about being the captain of the ship.
Heck...how many fan bases can you think of that actually construct a friggin language so that they can LARP as "authentic" Klingons, for Heaven's sake?
I think the problem here for a lot of us is that we are so wedded to this thought that we have to make it like a competition, or like a PvP or PvE combat simulator...mainly because that's all our MMOs have been about.
But I think this is the wrong way to approach a Star Trek game like the one we're describing. What Trekkies are hungry for aren't battles, necessarily, but to wear the pointed ears, put on the uniform, go through the Klingon rite of MajQa, have intrigue with the Tal'Shiar and generally just play dress up and make believe. And the reason I know this is because they already do.
...But they don't have the environment for it to really 'stick' when they play dress up at the convention hall. They want a virtual reality, and they'll take it from there.
I'm willing to be you that if you just give them a couple of detailed "sets" (Enterprise, DS/9, perhaps a Klingon D-7, a couple of worlds like Star Fleet Academy, Vulcan, and a couple of generic freighters), a rudimentary DIKU-based MUDlike combat system (it don't even have to be good), a ton of clothes, species and avatar options from the series, charge them $30 bucks a month or charge them via cash store (You want to be a Trill? Pay $5 and have at it, Hoss!), this game would be the freaking bomb for every Trekkie, geek or LARPer from 15-70 in the whole world. They'd bankrupt themselves in there...mark my words.
That's what we're not seeing. That's why I think you can't design a Star Trek game like a 'game'...you have to design it like a animated chatroom, and let the Trekkies do the rest.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Yeah, But you're still gonna have to deal with the random group finder putting you under the command of "Captain Pwnsurface" for the next 3 hours which would make it hard to roleplay. I don't see a starship bridge Star Trek MMO working very well but maybe it's a utopian setting that I can actually see a PVE sandbox working without feeling forced or anti-lore. Why would you have a ton of PVP in a Star Trek game unless maybe it was a border region?
Frankly, I don't think that Captain Pwnsurface would stay very long...it would be too boring for him. There'd be no loot for him to score, no ladder ranking for him to climb and no grisly trophies of his victims for him to keep.
This proposed Star Trek simulator is a whole other animal from the kinds of MMOs we are used to...it is more of a "MUSH" style experience (Multi-user shared hallucination) than a "MUD" style experience (Multi-user dungeon). To say that it has more in common with Second Life (where Captain Pwnsurface is definately not hanging out) is on the right track.
You might have some PvE areas...maybe a Borg ship you could explore or a Gorn homeworld you could sneak into. But I see those sorts of PvE encounters as more of a set for some creative GMing to take place.
I don't know how you can have this kind of game without some kind of PvP...if it isn't in the combat system, it'll be text-fought out in any event, so it might as well be in there. Besides, if we have sickbay, we have to have some reason to put people there.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Thing is I can't picture typical MMO PVP in a Star Trek setting. Star Trek (at least if you're going to set it in the TNG era) is very orderly. I don't remember hearing about big swarms of pirates flying around. I'm sure the federation would deal with them if there were and you're not going to have random Romulan or Borg or whatever ships flying around picking fights with federation captains. If there was PVP it should be huge scale epic fleet battles explained and planned for in the game's story (which would be completely awesome if the game could pull it off) but Star Trek also gives a unique opportunity for those who want an MMO not focused on combat because that world almost uniquely has a strong utopian bent which would make an almost totally peaceful MMO society make sense.
I wasn't thinking of PvP on such a grand scale.
But I can think of a plot device, a player-generated mystery, where a Star Fleet ensign is actually a spy for the Cardassians. He gets discovered making a transmission in a cargo bay, he pulls out his phaser, and he shoots the person who overheard it. The person is unconscious in sick bay, while the rest of the crew is wondering who did it.
Now in order for this kind of event to take place, there has to be a kind of way to injure or incapacitate a player...that's what I meant by "PvP"...you can attack other players.
This is the kind of player-generated content I used to enjoy back in the MUSH days, and it was happening all around, every day. And it's the kind of thing that I think Trekkies want from a Star Trek game.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE