Originally posted by Moodsor I really dont like it when people think they are speaking for everyone else, personal opinions are fine but dont presume to be speaking for the masses like you are doing with the constant use of "we".
Since I'm part of this community just like you I can use the word "we" since it's correctly used. Dictionary.com can come in handy to clarify its definition.
You can also use the term I. Now when you write we, are you saying yourself, or are you playing it as if you have a group of people you are speaking for? It is better communication to speak for yourself. If you represent a group, credentials make it look legit vs some self-appointed group advocate.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
This. By the criteria most players here lay out when deeming a game a failure, every MMO ever released except whatever their original MMO they played was and WoW are failures.
At what point do we say "okay you just don't like MMO's, you like one game that you played before" instead of insisting nonstop that there is something wrong with the genre?
The simplest solution being the right one, it is in fact that people are not a fan of MMO's at all, rather than there is some industry wide conspiracy to release and get people to play nothing but crap.
I can honestly say people are just playing the games wrong on a massive scale. If you want an experience like your first MMO you have to play it like it's your first MMO. A huge portion of the "fans" don't do that, they just power level up, and whinge that they're bored. This is not even playing the game, if you play a game like this you havent even played it, much less can say if it's crap or not.
In other words you ask people to be as ignorant and inexperienced as in their childhood years to see themself amazed by these MMO's available and spend $ with joy. If the product is deemed unfun, unpleasant and unworthy to be purchased it will fail, it's as simple as that.
It's up to the producers to deliver a product worthy to be experienced, by both younger and vet players. As one of the most experienced player in the genre I'm in same time the least demanding, expecting, it's why I see myself playing today a 2D MMO with graphics made 2 decades ago.
If that MMO can bring me as equal or better entertainment than a product available out there that demands $ to be experienced, guess which one I'll go with?
People are not playing the games wrong. It's a simple battle between consumers and producers. Consumers want to see themself enjoy the product and have fun with for their $ and it's producers job to succeed in that and take their $. It's as simple as that.
As long as we will see people who rather choose to find blame in others or other reasons behind their failure to sell their product, they will continually to fail over and over again. One of the first steps of becoming something more, delivering something better is by aknowledging and taking responsibility for your own actions and failures.
Anyways, I would like this community to be more focused on actually contributing to this thread about the games we have available and soon over why games are failures. That was the purpose of this thread, us the community to find mutual agreement on one product, based on the information we got at hand.
What games exactly are "failures"? Very few AAA MMO's have actually failed. SWTOR for example, it's doing quite well. As I mentioned before what you think are failures are not at all, so it's hard to take what you say all that seriously from the start when your ideas are founded on such a faulty premise.
Ok, so I can proclaim too a game I've self developed through programs like RPG maker as "success" if I've found one person to buy it would be deemed profitable, since I've spent no $ to develop, thus it would be profitable. MMO's that diminish rather than florish are deemed as failure, especially in the timeframe and speed/pace of that happening. Sure, I could make massive adds, build massive hype, buy reviews, and some cinematic trailers with the budget SWTOR came with . The strong IP and backing of an experienced company, and the use of all possible tactics to milk as much $ as they can until there is some lifeforce left in that game...one thing is certain SWTOR is anything but a success. It's mediocre at best and the fact its lead designer abandoned the ship further proves how great job he did lead designing it. Best of all, I was the prophet predicting accurately exactly what will happen to it 2 months prior to release. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?game=367&view=forums&thread=329028&page=1&val=1&uh=68EE285460BFEDDD54E6860C69D7A898
You say you want an epic world to live in, but I wager 90% of all your interaction and activity in game is based around leveling, just like everyone elses is. If that's the case you don't get MMO's, and hence asking them to accommodate you is like me going to a fashion expo and expecting to be entertained when I know nothing about designer clothing. You show up with an open mind or you're better off not showing up at all.
Wrong, the MMO I'm playing does not have a "leveling system"
It has nothing to do with pretending to be ignorant whilst playing a game. It's about experiencing it from a different point of view. Ton's of MMO's out there have tons and tons of content that is utterly ignored. I know because I've seen it first hand. While Im slowly leveling my toon doing quests in EQ2, using the exp lock feature to get as much out of those areas as I can, I watch players run right past me and ignore a huge portion of the game. Players are victims of their own devices. There is one way to optimally level up, one way to get the most EXP per minute or per hour, and that's what the vast majority of the community is going to do. And until you deviate from that course like I have, you'll get no sympathy from me when you can't find a game to hold your attention for much longer than it takes you to level up.
You can take your time and do exploration, sight seeing and spend time reading the generic quest text that usually says go kill x rats, then go kill x goblin. If I primarely played MMO's for the exploration/quests and whatever else you praise that players might be missing they would be playing far greater, single player games. You said it yourself while I'm "SLOWLY" leveling my toon. Let me tell you something, if the game is designed about leveling up and character progression, then thats what players enjoy doing over everything else, progressing their characters.
There is no "battle" between consumer and producer, that is an utterly ridiculous concept. You can't force anyone to make a product that they don't want to make, just like they can't force you to buy one you don't want to buy.
Since we've seen how $ plays role in what kind of products we get as well as how most producers go as far as to ruin or diminish their once great game to just squizze some extra $ here and there...It just shows what kind of force and role $ has with the games we are experiencing.
You've been told repeatedly that you're not getting everyone to agree on one product. You'll be lucky to get two people to agree on one product. If you can't see that, then this thread is completely beyond redemption.
I never said everyone to agree, "majority". Clearly, there is a difference, but you are welcome to twist my words and make false imaginations, assumtions, and continue to be dellusional like "I wager 90% of all your interaction and activity in game is based around leveling, just like everyone elses is. If that's the case you don't get MMO's. If you have a disagreement about something, you are welcome on your own opinion, but coming here and labeling me, twisting my words out of basis, without any facts or statements to back em up, just further shows how far you would go to even lie yourself for the sake of argument, that clearly does not go in your favor the way I see it.
Also just because you had a PRE-cu Jedi hardly makes you one of the most experienced MMO players. I had a preub 9 Jedi on Eclipse and was one of the first unlocks. Your problem is you think you know it all when clearly there are a lot of people who disagree with you. Maybe you need to go back to the drawing board.
First, I don't remember anywhere saying that I'm the most experienced MMO player because I've been a SWG Pre-CU Jedi, again you continue to demonstrate the same symtoms I described above. I don't even need to prove to anyone, especially you on my experience. You continue to fill this thread with arguments that simply derail it over bringing valuable info on some of the current and future MMO"s we have, which just further proves how helpful, experienced and useful are for the community.
If anyone needs to go back to the drawing board it's you. It doesn't mean that if a lot disagree with something, they could be right. That thread with the SWTOR poll is best example of that. Just read through it and watch the responses on most and how they claim it would never go F2P.
Anyways, back to topic...based on some posts...ArcheAge is gaining a lot of negative feedback, primarely the payment design behind as it's coming nearly to release. It looks like it's down to Everquest Next, Star Citizen, and some others. I know the Repopulation has pathetic budget behind, but we will get more info on actually what it offers soon.
Well I hate to break it to you, but all those games you just mentioned are going to have plenty of negative things said about them as more info comes out, when BT starts and even more so upon release. This is what happens when you allow lunatics to run the asylum and color your opinion for you. You've said it yourself you've spent very little money on games, so that to me says you're not near as experienced as you claim to be, and that you allow too much of what other people think to dictate your own opinions (kind of the running theme of the thread). Sometimes you have to drop a dime here and there and find out for yourself, like with FF14.
Also SWTOR is a financial success, last I checked the point of making games was to make money, not to meet your own personal requirements for what makes a game successful. SWTOR:1 You:0
I'm not going to address much of your rant, but it's clear if by a game simply having a leveling system in place means you feel compelled to do it as fast as possible as I pointed out, well you're in for more and more of the same disappointment. If you lack the self control to pace yourself, and play in a way besides the optimal way and actually go out and experience a game, then you could be playing anything and it wouldn't matter. You've already trivialized the game with your playstyle, and turn around and blame it on the game. You can alter the way you play MMO's to something else, anything else, or continue to talk about the big conspiracy to feed you crap games that you don't have any interest in playing anyways. Ultimately I kinda feel sorry for you.
If you're going to go around saying that you speak for other people and that you're the most experienced MMO player, you are gonna be called out on it whenever someones realizes what you're doing. Sorry that upsets you so much. A lot of people disagree with you because apparently the point of this thread was to get information about games we have very limited information about to begin with, and make a collective decision about what were all going to play together, as if that's somehow going to make the game better. And to top it off you still believe this is somehow a plausible response or some kind of solution to your problem of not having anything to play. Honestly, do you just want to not be alone in being miserable or something, and want us to all play a game and be unhappy with you?
This. By the criteria most players here lay out when deeming a game a failure, every MMO ever released except whatever their original MMO they played was and WoW are failures.
At what point do we say "okay you just don't like MMO's, you like one game that you played before" instead of insisting nonstop that there is something wrong with the genre?
The simplest solution being the right one, it is in fact that people are not a fan of MMO's at all, rather than there is some industry wide conspiracy to release and get people to play nothing but crap.
I can honestly say people are just playing the games wrong on a massive scale. If you want an experience like your first MMO you have to play it like it's your first MMO. A huge portion of the "fans" don't do that, they just power level up, and whinge that they're bored. This is not even playing the game, if you play a game like this you havent even played it, much less can say if it's crap or not.
In other words you ask people to be as ignorant and inexperienced as in their childhood years to see themself amazed by these MMO's available and spend $ with joy. If the product is deemed unfun, unpleasant and unworthy to be purchased it will fail, it's as simple as that.
It's up to the producers to deliver a product worthy to be experienced, by both younger and vet players. As one of the most experienced player in the genre I'm in same time the least demanding, expecting, it's why I see myself playing today a 2D MMO with graphics made 2 decades ago.
If that MMO can bring me as equal or better entertainment than a product available out there that demands $ to be experienced, guess which one I'll go with?
People are not playing the games wrong. It's a simple battle between consumers and producers. Consumers want to see themself enjoy the product and have fun with for their $ and it's producers job to succeed in that and take their $. It's as simple as that.
As long as we will see people who rather choose to find blame in others or other reasons behind their failure to sell their product, they will continually to fail over and over again. One of the first steps of becoming something more, delivering something better is by aknowledging and taking responsibility for your own actions and failures.
Anyways, I would like this community to be more focused on actually contributing to this thread about the games we have available and soon over why games are failures. That was the purpose of this thread, us the community to find mutual agreement on one product, based on the information we got at hand.
Anyways, back to topic...based on some posts...ArcheAge is gaining a lot of negative feedback, primarely the payment design behind as it's coming nearly to release. It looks like it's down to Everquest Next, Star Citizen, and some others. I know the Repopulation has pathetic budget behind, but we will get more info on actually what it offers soon.
Sorry Dude but the Frog is right. This thread is not about assesing future MMO's, Its about you telling us how much you think you know about what makes a good MMO.
You just blew off Archeage for what? Because " some posters" are giving it "negative feedback" And then you state the payment design. And thats it. Some random guy says the payment model is bad, and now the game is a fail. A game that many others say has many good features that other MMO's don't, but you just look at a couple of negative posts and then blow off the entire game.
Sorry, but your playstyle and your entire attitude toward MMO's are just epic failures. Your entire reason for playing MMO's is simply to inflate your own ego. And any game that doesn't inflate your ego to a least the epic proportions that you have already inflated it, is a fail. Go ahead and keep waiting for all those other games. Soon those gray hairs will be popping up and you will still be bitching and moaning about how: they just don't make 'em like they used to.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I dunno, it seems to me that more people than ever before in history are playing MMOS, collectively as a group, across many different titles, so you can't really say the genre failed.
Now it is true, no one has created a game with WOWs success, but it's sort of an anomaly for a variety of reasons and I think even Blizzard recognizes they can't recreate that magic again hence they scraped Titan and went back to the drawing board.
As popular as WOW was, there were many who didn't like it. Also as Blizzard changed the core gameplay to draw in ever larger audiences they drove away just about as many players with the new designs. Likely for every current WOW player there is today, there is 4 who previously played and will never go back. (I'm personal friends with many of those folks)
Fortunately I enjoy playing EVE, because although old, it's still up to date, relevant and quite different in design from modern theme parks.
I'm all for a return to old school designs, I spent most of last year playing a version of DAOC that was locked in a 2003 ruleset, but I realize "we" who want such a game are a small niche, heck DAOC was a niche title in its heyday, now even more so.
So if ever a modern day title is going to capture my interest, it will naturally include designs that will alienate a large portion of the player base, AA is one such title, best game in years IMO, but it's already clear to me most won't "get it" and that's OK, because they'll go off and find a game they enjoy.
As I said early on this thread, bigger is not more epic, in fact, likely it's more generic to give it broad appeal and definitly is not the way to go IMO.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
the key world is OLD. there will NEVER be another mmo w/c will be played 4 years plus.
games/mmo now are just casual pastime for most people, with so many games, so many mmo's, tablet games getting better, the next gen player don't have the attention span of more than a few months before moving on to their next game.
don't become a relic, move on, accept that there will never be the PERFECT mmo anymore...............
Comments
Since I'm part of this community just like you I can use the word "we" since it's correctly used. Dictionary.com can come in handy to clarify its definition.
You can also use the term I. Now when you write we, are you saying yourself, or are you playing it as if you have a group of people you are speaking for? It is better communication to speak for yourself. If you represent a group, credentials make it look legit vs some self-appointed group advocate.Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Anyways, back to topic...based on some posts...ArcheAge is gaining a lot of negative feedback, primarely the payment design behind as it's coming nearly to release. It looks like it's down to Everquest Next, Star Citizen, and some others. I know the Repopulation has pathetic budget behind, but we will get more info on actually what it offers soon.
Well I hate to break it to you, but all those games you just mentioned are going to have plenty of negative things said about them as more info comes out, when BT starts and even more so upon release. This is what happens when you allow lunatics to run the asylum and color your opinion for you. You've said it yourself you've spent very little money on games, so that to me says you're not near as experienced as you claim to be, and that you allow too much of what other people think to dictate your own opinions (kind of the running theme of the thread). Sometimes you have to drop a dime here and there and find out for yourself, like with FF14.
Also SWTOR is a financial success, last I checked the point of making games was to make money, not to meet your own personal requirements for what makes a game successful. SWTOR:1 You:0
I'm not going to address much of your rant, but it's clear if by a game simply having a leveling system in place means you feel compelled to do it as fast as possible as I pointed out, well you're in for more and more of the same disappointment. If you lack the self control to pace yourself, and play in a way besides the optimal way and actually go out and experience a game, then you could be playing anything and it wouldn't matter. You've already trivialized the game with your playstyle, and turn around and blame it on the game. You can alter the way you play MMO's to something else, anything else, or continue to talk about the big conspiracy to feed you crap games that you don't have any interest in playing anyways. Ultimately I kinda feel sorry for you.
If you're going to go around saying that you speak for other people and that you're the most experienced MMO player, you are gonna be called out on it whenever someones realizes what you're doing. Sorry that upsets you so much. A lot of people disagree with you because apparently the point of this thread was to get information about games we have very limited information about to begin with, and make a collective decision about what were all going to play together, as if that's somehow going to make the game better. And to top it off you still believe this is somehow a plausible response or some kind of solution to your problem of not having anything to play. Honestly, do you just want to not be alone in being miserable or something, and want us to all play a game and be unhappy with you?
Sorry Dude but the Frog is right. This thread is not about assesing future MMO's, Its about you telling us how much you think you know about what makes a good MMO.
You just blew off Archeage for what? Because " some posters" are giving it "negative feedback" And then you state the payment design. And thats it. Some random guy says the payment model is bad, and now the game is a fail. A game that many others say has many good features that other MMO's don't, but you just look at a couple of negative posts and then blow off the entire game.
Sorry, but your playstyle and your entire attitude toward MMO's are just epic failures. Your entire reason for playing MMO's is simply to inflate your own ego. And any game that doesn't inflate your ego to a least the epic proportions that you have already inflated it, is a fail. Go ahead and keep waiting for all those other games. Soon those gray hairs will be popping up and you will still be bitching and moaning about how: they just don't make 'em like they used to.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Now it is true, no one has created a game with WOWs success, but it's sort of an anomaly for a variety of reasons and I think even Blizzard recognizes they can't recreate that magic again hence they scraped Titan and went back to the drawing board.
As popular as WOW was, there were many who didn't like it. Also as Blizzard changed the core gameplay to draw in ever larger audiences they drove away just about as many players with the new designs. Likely for every current WOW player there is today, there is 4 who previously played and will never go back. (I'm personal friends with many of those folks)
Fortunately I enjoy playing EVE, because although old, it's still up to date, relevant and quite different in design from modern theme parks.
I'm all for a return to old school designs, I spent most of last year playing a version of DAOC that was locked in a 2003 ruleset, but I realize "we" who want such a game are a small niche, heck DAOC was a niche title in its heyday, now even more so.
So if ever a modern day title is going to capture my interest, it will naturally include designs that will alienate a large portion of the player base, AA is one such title, best game in years IMO, but it's already clear to me most won't "get it" and that's OK, because they'll go off and find a game they enjoy.
As I said early on this thread, bigger is not more epic, in fact, likely it's more generic to give it broad appeal and definitly is not the way to go IMO.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
another player longing for those good ol days.
the key world is OLD. there will NEVER be another mmo w/c will be played 4 years plus.
games/mmo now are just casual pastime for most people, with so many games, so many mmo's, tablet games getting better, the next gen player don't have the attention span of more than a few months before moving on to their next game.
don't become a relic, move on, accept that there will never be the PERFECT mmo anymore...............