heres what i think the biggest issues are. a, fantasy is easier to do, like said before, not as many enviornments, plus its familiar. 40k would open so many doors, that they couldnt really explore enough of them to make it really interesting, or they would spend too much time doing "cool" stuff, and not focussing on nstory and gameplay. plus in 40k what type of tyranid would they let you play. if any at all. plus like tyranids they have no armor other that whats on them, it just causes many issues. with fantasy you can incorporate enough stuf to keep everyone happy, and still hopefully do enough to make it different
Well they could make Tyranids and Necrons mobs (npc) and focus the story on the Eye of Terror.I agree 40K fits more as am FPS than an RPG, but the could add some rpg elements like lvls, skills... (much like Planetside but better...) that would be great.I would by an 40k mmo on an insant.
If Warhammer is a success, then they would be foolish not to follow up with 40K. Paricularly as there isn't a particularly good Sci Fi mmorpg around at the moment.
Although they might be thinking that Star Trek Online is going to suck up all the Sci-Fi nuts
Ok maybe Star Trek is more well known and has many fanatics (Trekies) and probably will attract a bigger market but there is just no comparison between 40k and Star Trek worlds. 40k RULEZ
It just wouldn't work with 40k, my knowledge of the warhammer universe isn't as good as it was but how would you make classes for 40k? What about playable races? Sure you could have space marines but they would be very limited to what they can be.
With warhammer, you have a lot more choices with all the races and classes and this way, we won't have a whole load of space marines around which is always a good thing.
Also as someone said, they don't want a turn based 40k game and when you think of all the guns, it wouldn't be a good idea to make it turn based either but ask S.O.E what mmorpg gamers think of swg and their combat system?
Also give GW a break, they don't have a clue about mmorpgs, they see WoW's sales and suddenly dollar signs appear in their eyes. Still, i believe this might just flop with all the current fantasy games in production, people will be sick of them.
Well, i think they went with fantasy mainly for 2 reasons:
1) Mythic is known for DAoC, a fantasy RvR based MMorpg. Warhammer Fantasy fit the mold of DaoC like a glove so it was an obvious choice.
2) a WH40K MMorpg is hard to implement. why you think there is NO official PnP Game for wh40k? Because the universe, as told so far, simply do not click well as a RPG. Individuals in Warhammer 40k have the value of a nut. Space Marines are not soldiers, they are crazed zealots warrior monks with 0 free time completely dedicated to fight for the emperor.
A player Space Marine is not easy to do.... Same for the rest of the races actually. So, what to do? Make a MMorpg where every player is a lowly human/normal race? Surely there is a life outside war in the Warhammer 40k, but such life has A) never been fleshed out and is lived by relativly uninteresting people.
To make a WH40K Mmorpg would be to make an hard choice between A) Not allowing any player to be some of the uber soldiers/combatants like Space Marines, Eldar Aspect Warriors, Chaos marines, Ork Nobbs and so on
OR
Make them be it and to hell with the continuity.
OR
Makes the game about a certain offshot of Warhammer 40k, Necromunda. that game would be perfect for a mmorpg having already a semi-rpg feeling. The problem is that Necromunda is no way as popular as Father 40k.
I think a MMO based on 40k is possible, but not a RPG. a MMORTS fits better the game and the setting.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
A 40K based MMO would be a rather difficult thing to build. Though the universe besides the table-top battles is fleshed out in various books and whatnot the universe detailed within is huge. The imperium is made of millions of worlds with untold billions of people in it, and is set up in such a way that there are no real "main" planets that would be good for MMO play. Add this to the fact that the culture and language vary greatly from world to world, and we haven't even gotten into the other races detailed in the game. If they managed to do it, I would play it, but for now I'm satisfied with Warhammer Fantasy being the game, at least I will be if I get to play a Slayer. Oh yeah, and as Volkmar mentioned above, Necromunda has a setting that could make a great MMO, and it's set in the 40K universe.
Originally posted by vipjerry Very stupid idea to make WOW clone i just cant figure it out why would they do this?! On the other hand, if they do 40k it would be new, refreshing and original. Is there one single reason why would one play this game? Nothing new, unoriginal settings, boring story etc etc. This game is destined to fail again. Sorry guys but we have WoW already i dont think we need another one!!! glhf
Well now, there we got a solid post based on hard facts. If you think it'll fail because it's fantasy (omg, it's got elfs and dwarves! plagiarism!) and thus MUST be just like WoW, then that's ridiculous. Maybe you should read more then 3 lines about a project before judgeing it.
Well now, there we got a solid post based on hard facts. If you think it'll fail because it's fantasy (omg, it's got elfs and dwarves! plagiarism!) and thus MUST be just like WoW, then that's ridiculous. Maybe you should read more then 3 lines about a project before judgeing it.
I did m8 and i dont see nothing new. How can this game differ from the rest of the Fantasy MMOs.
Help me out to open my eyes if you know something about this game that we didnt see before or at least we didnt see in WoW...
Please never insult WAR by calling it WOW ever again.
Obvious differences that will be seen:
1) NO KIDDY GRAPHICS. This is mythic making the game so the graphics will be much more realistic than seeing an elf with 2 foot tall ears dancing like Micheal Jackson.
2) And again since this is being made by mythic, the RVR function will be much, much better than WoW's (gotta do those 30 insta bg's that last 15 minutes so you don't get too worked up and have to take your ritalin).
3) Do you even know about the storyline of War and how each race is connected? Maybe even the fact that War is how 40,000 was even created. And Mordheim for that matter.
4) From what I've seen WAR is gonna be setup realm wise like DAOC. So unlike WOW where its good vs. bad but your going to get the ugly coming into your flank as well.
Not to mention I'm expecting a much better community in this game than what wow has. There the kiddies go around pretending to be bad-a$$ and talking smack to anyone and everyone. Theres no control over them. When WAR opens up 99% of them will stay there 'L337 pwning' while the 1% will try to be big shot here.
And don't worry about 40K, I'm almost positive that will be out next. You just have to know how GW works
Originally posted by vipjerry I did m8 and i dont see nothing new. How can this game differ from the rest of the Fantasy MMOs. Help me out to open my eyes if you know something about this game that we didnt see before or at least we didnt see in WoW...
It will be a Realm vs. Realm game like Dark Age of Camelot. And while they've said that they don't want to copy daoc's RvR system but make an unique one that suits the Warhammer universe, I think it's still a safe bet that PvP will actually matter and you can make a difference. Taking and defending Forts/Cities can be a lot of fun.
WoW's pvp system does nothing of that sort. It's all instanced (I actually think Battlegrounds made wow worse, I had a lot of fun attacking/defending towns before they introduced them, even if there was nothing to be gained from that. Quit out of boredome shortly after.) and after you're done with your match it's forgotten.. it doesn't really matter if you've won or lost either. Just another grind, really.
If you haven't played daoc you should download the 14 day trial, but now I'm going a bit off topic!
Anyway, it doesn't matter for me if it's 40k of fantasy as long as Mythic can create an engaging RvR environment.
I do not think it would be possible because of the guns, tanks, grenades...etc .. When you play a game with a gun you expect speed, being able to doge crouch, for it to be an rpg it would have to be slown down like AO which mean you stand in one place and shoot, even though that is how the tabletop game plays i dont think it would fly in a mmo. If you made it into a mmofps there would be way too many balancing issues and too many complainers if some one has the right weapons, armor and skill, they would call him a cheater.
If they did decide to make it into a mmo then they would be pretty much limited to 4 races, Space Marines ((and its many chapters)The Sisters)), Eldar, Tau, and Dark Eldar. They would have to make Imp's into an npc because they are just way too weak to be a playble race they rely on large numbers (20 a squad? dont remember) Necrons are way too Uber (disputable depending on who you talk to) so they have to be an npc as well probably a mob, the same goes for Orks and Tyranid.
Classes is the only thing i dont think they have a problem with, because its pretty simple. If your space marine your either Heavy Assault, Terminator(could be like an epic thing), Sniper, Demolotions, Major in close combat with a minor in mid rng (dont know what to call it), Spec ops, and command im guessing general or something like where you start out with all the basic skills from all the other classes but you have special abilites like group buffs or something like that, and you can only excell so far in those basic skills.
I would love for 40k to be an mmo, but i just dont think that it will appeal to the general audience and it might dissapoint some fans.
WAR is the more suited choice because it follows the traditional style of Fantasy MMO with its on twists.
My choice for my next mmo would be either WAR or Vanguard, just because i am tired of all these happy go lucky games, or clayish and bright looking gfx, cartoonish looking gfx. I am tired of reading retarted shit in my general chat window, and for once i would like depth in a mmo with some deep roots.
((I got fair skin, so please be gentle.. ;puts on flame suit;))
"It''s like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG''s NGE
I once prayed to God for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness.
"Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul." -Tycho
Actually Cloudink your post isn't far off from another discussion we had in these forums with the debate between 40K and fantasy mmo.
If you made it into a mmofps there would be way too many balancing issues and too many complainers if some one has the right weapons, armor and skill, they would call him a cheater
Ya can't fix this. No matter what the dev's do, people will always complain. Everybody playing these mmo's wants to be the top guy and if guy B beats him then chances are he's cheating right. That's just human nature.
Space Marines ((and its many chapters)The Sisters)), Eldar, Tau, and Dark Eldar
We figured space marines for sure (the chapters would be the different guilds) with empire, chaos s.m.'s with dark eldar, and maybe tau with eldar. This assuming it follows mythics 3 realm rule. Now setting up a group would be a task yes cause space marine pack around in groups of 5-10 while empirials have a platoon of 30. Eldar I beleive are 15 and I think the tau are 12. Chaos is 5-10 and Dark eldar is something like 20. So we would have to get a average number to call a 'group'.
With the vehicles I could maybe see it being setup like a battlebarge in DAOC. Take the Land raider or the chimera for instance. Someone can "purchase" it at your starting location. When he sets it up he can the pilot the vehicle while any others climbing aboard could use one of the online systems. Of course Im sure this would turn into a all tank war doing things like this but hey what can you do. As for seige tanks like the basilisk who knows how they could do that. Maybe making it so atleast 3 people have to sit on the tank while a 4th goes out and paints a target. could be fun.
Necrons are way too Uber
You're damn right they are. Yes these guys would surely be a npc as well as the tyranid since both races are actually a hive mind. And we don't need someone flying around in a pyramid spitting out soldiers like a wal-mart with cheap labor.
I do not think it would be possible because of the guns, tanks, grenades...etc ..
As much as I despice WoW, they have come across the gun concept a little and I'm sure that WAR is gonna have it too. I bet that the company could do something to that effect. Like with grenades it could give the opponent a negative to hit for xx amount of time unless he was packing flash suppressors or you could do different ops (quests) to get yy item for zz gun (or even to get a new gun period)
Classes is the only thing i dont think they have a problem with, because its pretty simple
Your right on this for the most part. No matter what realm or race you play your pretty much going to be the same thing....a shooter. They may be special and add in a medic or even a psycher but that doesn't change much.
Another factor that isn't in your post is how they would set up the landscape. 40K isn't exactly set on one planet or even one galaxy. I think in the other forums we figured it be something along the lines like SWG in the multiplanet express.
Like I've said, I'm sure that at some point in time GW will try to come up with a concept for 40K
Originally posted by Ravenmgs The first and formost reason they are doing War Hammer over 40k, is Fantasy games just do better then SciFi games, they just seem to click better with the MMO audience.
Actually, my guess would be that they didn't want it to compete with Imperator since they already had a sci-fi game in the works at the time that Warhammer was announced.
Originally posted by Ravenmgs The first and formost reason they are doing War Hammer over 40k, is Fantasy games just do better then SciFi games, they just seem to click better with the MMO audience.
Actually, my guess would be that they didn't want it to compete with Imperator since they already had a sci-fi game in the works at the time that Warhammer was announced.
I wouldn't go that far, a good company will have multiple games, ruguardless of it's competition, if it's competing against itself it's still winning. think of it in terms of money. Would you like me to put $15 every month into your checking account? or Savings account? What difference does it make, as long as it goes into MY accounts.
I don't know much about Imperator actually, and it may hve looked alot like 40K, and if so, perhaps they placed it on hold until they decided if they were going to play with doing 40K so they could see what kind of crowd the GW people could bring in? Just speculation. They could easily change the name of Imperator to Imperator 40,000 and set it up as a GW product if the game were so set up right.
Don't worry, if Mythic doesn't take the reigns on this one (Yes, I am 40K fan), then Blizzard will do what it has always done and take 40K 1.1...oh, I mean STARCRAFT and beat them to the punch.
Which is why Diablo should...n/m...for another thread.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
Why not WH40K? Well because WHFRPG has been going since '86. WH40K is still only a table top battle game. Most of the development work is already done, quest otlines that already exist. Mythic are planing to give us a MMORPG in 3 years 05-07 thats quick.
Comments
heres what i think the biggest issues are. a, fantasy is easier to do, like said before, not as many enviornments, plus its familiar. 40k would open so many doors, that they couldnt really explore enough of them to make it really interesting, or they would spend too much time doing "cool" stuff, and not focussing on nstory and gameplay. plus in 40k what type of tyranid would they let you play. if any at all. plus like tyranids they have no armor other that whats on them, it just causes many issues. with fantasy you can incorporate enough stuf to keep everyone happy, and still hopefully do enough to make it different
Well they could make Tyranids and Necrons mobs (npc) and focus the story on the Eye of Terror.I agree
40K fits more as am FPS than an RPG, but the could add some rpg elements like lvls, skills... (much like Planetside but better...) that would be great.I would by an 40k mmo on an insant.
Death to the Falce Emperor
If Warhammer is a success, then they would be foolish not to follow up with 40K. Paricularly as there isn't a particularly good Sci Fi mmorpg around at the moment.
Although they might be thinking that Star Trek Online is going to suck up all the Sci-Fi nuts
Ok maybe Star Trek is more well known and has many fanatics (Trekies) and probably will attract a bigger market but there is just no comparison between 40k and Star Trek worlds.
40k RULEZ
I would also have prefered 40k myself. Too many big fantasy MMORPGs out there already, need more sci-fi! A Warhammer 40k MMORPG would totally rock!
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It just wouldn't work with 40k, my knowledge of the warhammer universe isn't as good as it was but how would you make classes for 40k? What about playable races? Sure you could have space marines but they would be very limited to what they can be.
With warhammer, you have a lot more choices with all the races and classes and this way, we won't have a whole load of space marines around which is always a good thing.
Also as someone said, they don't want a turn based 40k game and when you think of all the guns, it wouldn't be a good idea to make it turn based either but ask S.O.E what mmorpg gamers think of swg and their combat system?
Also give GW a break, they don't have a clue about mmorpgs, they see WoW's sales and suddenly dollar signs appear in their eyes. Still, i believe this might just flop with all the current fantasy games in production, people will be sick of them.
Well, i think they went with fantasy mainly for 2 reasons:
1) Mythic is known for DAoC, a fantasy RvR based MMorpg. Warhammer Fantasy fit the mold of DaoC like a glove so it was an obvious choice.
2) a WH40K MMorpg is hard to implement. why you think there is NO official PnP Game for wh40k? Because the universe, as told so far, simply do not click well as a RPG. Individuals in Warhammer 40k have the value of a nut. Space Marines are not soldiers, they are crazed zealots warrior monks with 0 free time completely dedicated to fight for the emperor.
A player Space Marine is not easy to do.... Same for the rest of the races actually. So, what to do? Make a MMorpg where every player is a lowly human/normal race? Surely there is a life outside war in the Warhammer 40k, but such life has A) never been fleshed out and
is lived by relativly uninteresting people.
To make a WH40K Mmorpg would be to make an hard choice between A) Not allowing any player to be some of the uber soldiers/combatants like Space Marines, Eldar Aspect Warriors, Chaos marines, Ork Nobbs and so on
OR
Make them be it and to hell with the continuity.
OR
Makes the game about a certain offshot of Warhammer 40k, Necromunda. that game would be perfect for a mmorpg having already a semi-rpg feeling. The problem is that Necromunda is no way as popular as Father 40k.
I think a MMO based on 40k is possible, but not a RPG. a MMORTS fits better the game and the setting.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
HI there - Warhammer 40k doens't have Orcs - it has Orks!
A 40K based MMO would be a rather difficult thing to build. Though the universe besides the table-top battles is fleshed out in various books and whatnot the universe detailed within is huge. The imperium is made of millions of worlds with untold billions of people in it, and is set up in such a way that there are no real "main" planets that would be good for MMO play. Add this to the fact that the culture and language vary greatly from world to world, and we haven't even gotten into the other races detailed in the game. If they managed to do it, I would play it, but for now I'm satisfied with Warhammer Fantasy being the game, at least I will be if I get to play a Slayer. Oh yeah, and as Volkmar mentioned above, Necromunda has a setting that could make a great MMO, and it's set in the 40K universe.
Very stupid idea to make WOW clone i just cant figure it out why would they do this?!
On the other hand, if they do 40k it would be new, refreshing and original.
Is there one single reason why would one play this game? Nothing new, unoriginal settings, boring story etc etc.
This game is destined to fail again.
Sorry guys but we have WoW already i dont think we need another one!!!
glhf
Well now, there we got a solid post based on hard facts. If you think it'll fail because it's fantasy (omg, it's got elfs and dwarves! plagiarism!) and thus MUST be just like WoW, then that's ridiculous. Maybe you should read more then 3 lines about a project before judgeing it.
I did m8 and i dont see nothing new. How can this game differ from the rest of the Fantasy MMOs.
Help me out to open my eyes if you know something about this game that we didnt see before or at least we didnt see in WoW...
Please never insult WAR by calling it WOW ever again.
Obvious differences that will be seen:
1) NO KIDDY GRAPHICS. This is mythic making the game so the graphics will be much more realistic than seeing an elf with 2 foot tall ears dancing like Micheal Jackson.
2) And again since this is being made by mythic, the RVR function will be much, much better than WoW's (gotta do those 30 insta bg's that last 15 minutes so you don't get too worked up and have to take your ritalin).
3) Do you even know about the storyline of War and how each race is connected? Maybe even the fact that War is how 40,000 was even created. And Mordheim for that matter.
4) From what I've seen WAR is gonna be setup realm wise like DAOC. So unlike WOW where its good vs. bad but your going to get the ugly coming into your flank as well.
Not to mention I'm expecting a much better community in this game than what wow has. There the kiddies go around pretending to be bad-a$$ and talking smack to anyone and everyone. Theres no control over them. When WAR opens up 99% of them will stay there 'L337 pwning' while the 1% will try to be big shot here.
And don't worry about 40K, I'm almost positive that will be out next. You just have to know how GW works
It will be a Realm vs. Realm game like Dark Age of Camelot. And while they've said that they don't want to copy daoc's RvR system but make an unique one that suits the Warhammer universe, I think it's still a safe bet that PvP will actually matter and you can make a difference. Taking and defending Forts/Cities can be a lot of fun.
WoW's pvp system does nothing of that sort. It's all instanced (I actually think Battlegrounds made wow worse, I had a lot of fun attacking/defending towns before they introduced them, even if there was nothing to be gained from that. Quit out of boredome shortly after.) and after you're done with your match it's forgotten.. it doesn't really matter if you've won or lost either. Just another grind, really.
If you haven't played daoc you should download the 14 day trial, but now I'm going a bit off topic!
Anyway, it doesn't matter for me if it's 40k of fantasy as long as Mythic can create an engaging RvR environment.
My opinion on 40k being made into an mmo is this.
My choice for my next mmo would be either WAR or Vanguard, just because i am tired of all these happy go lucky games, or clayish and bright looking gfx, cartoonish looking gfx. I am tired of reading retarted shit in my general chat window, and for once i would like depth in a mmo with some deep roots.
((I got fair skin, so please be gentle.. ;puts on flame suit;))
"It''s like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG''s NGE
I once prayed to God for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness.
"Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul."
-Tycho
Actually Cloudink your post isn't far off from another discussion we had in these forums with the debate between 40K and fantasy mmo.
If you made it into a mmofps there would be way too many balancing issues and too many complainers if some one has the right weapons, armor and skill, they would call him a cheater
Ya can't fix this. No matter what the dev's do, people will always complain. Everybody playing these mmo's wants to be the top guy and if guy B beats him then chances are he's cheating right. That's just human nature.
Space Marines ((and its many chapters)The Sisters)), Eldar, Tau, and Dark Eldar
We figured space marines for sure (the chapters would be the different guilds) with empire, chaos s.m.'s with dark eldar, and maybe tau with eldar. This assuming it follows mythics 3 realm rule. Now setting up a group would be a task yes cause space marine pack around in groups of 5-10 while empirials have a platoon of 30. Eldar I beleive are 15 and I think the tau are 12. Chaos is 5-10 and Dark eldar is something like 20. So we would have to get a average number to call a 'group'.
With the vehicles I could maybe see it being setup like a battlebarge in DAOC. Take the Land raider or the chimera for instance. Someone can "purchase" it at your starting location. When he sets it up he can the pilot the vehicle while any others climbing aboard could use one of the online systems. Of course Im sure this would turn into a all tank war doing things like this but hey what can you do. As for seige tanks like the basilisk who knows how they could do that. Maybe making it so atleast 3 people have to sit on the tank while a 4th goes out and paints a target. could be fun.
Necrons are way too Uber
You're damn right they are. Yes these guys would surely be a npc as well as the tyranid since both races are actually a hive mind. And we don't need someone flying around in a pyramid spitting out soldiers like a wal-mart with cheap labor.
I do not think it would be possible because of the guns, tanks, grenades...etc ..
As much as I despice WoW, they have come across the gun concept a little and I'm sure that WAR is gonna have it too. I bet that the company could do something to that effect. Like with grenades it could give the opponent a negative to hit for xx amount of time unless he was packing flash suppressors or you could do different ops (quests) to get yy item for zz gun (or even to get a new gun period)
Classes is the only thing i dont think they have a problem with, because its pretty simple
Your right on this for the most part. No matter what realm or race you play your pretty much going to be the same thing....a shooter. They may be special and add in a medic or even a psycher but that doesn't change much.
Another factor that isn't in your post is how they would set up the landscape. 40K isn't exactly set on one planet or even one galaxy. I think in the other forums we figured it be something along the lines like SWG in the multiplanet express.
Like I've said, I'm sure that at some point in time GW will try to come up with a concept for 40K
Actually, my guess would be that they didn't want it to compete with Imperator since they already had a sci-fi game in the works at the time that Warhammer was announced.
Actually, my guess would be that they didn't want it to compete with Imperator since they already had a sci-fi game in the works at the time that Warhammer was announced.
I wouldn't go that far, a good company will have multiple games, ruguardless of it's competition, if it's competing against itself it's still winning. think of it in terms of money. Would you like me to put $15 every month into your checking account? or Savings account? What difference does it make, as long as it goes into MY accounts.
I don't know much about Imperator actually, and it may hve looked alot like 40K, and if so, perhaps they placed it on hold until they decided if they were going to play with doing 40K so they could see what kind of crowd the GW people could bring in? Just speculation. They could easily change the name of Imperator to Imperator 40,000 and set it up as a GW product if the game were so set up right.
Don't worry, if Mythic doesn't take the reigns on this one (Yes, I am 40K fan), then Blizzard will do what it has always done and take 40K 1.1...oh, I mean STARCRAFT and beat them to the punch.
Which is why Diablo should...n/m...for another thread.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
So much for satisfying my desire of killing Eldar with a Defiler tank.
I think a 40k game would be alot more refreshing and fun than a run of the mills spellcasting warrior game!
would it be fair to say that this entire dungeon, class, combat, freak orgy stuff all came from...?
tolkein?
and before that german fairy tales? before that greek mythology?
stealing ideas is great!
without it, none of anyones favorite games would even exist.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--