But I know what you mean about the praise. It's just something I don't agree with. Heck, popular opinion is that Avatar was a great film. I hated almost everything about it and think James Cameron has taken a wrong turn...fuck, the same guy that made Aliens and Terminator 2 made this blue thundercats movie? I, like many, loved UO. I also like SWTOR a lot (which a lot of people hate). It's just different tastes in the end.
Really, when you think about it, most games are pretty much the same but in a slightly different flavor. "Sir, would you like the MMO with the warcraft syrup, the star wars syrup, the dungeons and dragons syrup (it's low fat), the guild wars milk (it's also reduced fat)?"
Ironically, though, Avatar is not critically acclaimed as a good film. The fans love it, other industry professionals not so much (aside from the visual fx). GW2, on the other hand, is recognized by other devs as an impressive game. However, most gamers continually say that it's crap.
Thing is, the game is very polarizing, and has been from day 1 of release. Some people 'get it' and enjoy it, others don't or it's just simply not the game for them. However, this always seems to quickly devolve into a pissing contest, of who is more riteous, which is absolutely ridiculous.
GW2 is not a perfect game, it has a lot of flaws, however it succeeded in doing the bulk of what it set out to do. But for whatever reason a lot of people seem incapable of accepting this. A game can be imperfect and still be successful. Just because you don't like a game, doesn't mean it's bad.
- The funny thing about people believing that all MMOs are the same, is that when you actually stop and take an objective look at ALL mmos, there is actually a lot of differences. We've just conditioned ourselves to think that they don't matter. It's kinda like saying all rock music is the same, or all cars are the same. When you think about things in general enough terms, everything seems the same. It's the details, design, & execution that make them different. All cars may have 4 wheels and an engine, but I don't think anyone would believe that a porsche is no different from a ford truck. Just as all FPS games have a retical and you shooting things, but I don't think anyone would argue that halflife is the same as Call of Duty, with a different paint job.
Avatar currently holds an 83% rating on rottentomatoes and is the highest grossing film of all time. It was also nominated for numerous Academy Awards including Best Picture and Best Director. I think it's pretty well regarded,
Yes, all MMOs have subtle differences but really they all share the same core components. Those core components is what I am talking about. Those few that really stand out from the rest are so few that it's basically just become the same game recycled with slight changes.
But I know what you mean about the praise. It's just something I don't agree with. Heck, popular opinion is that Avatar was a great film. I hated almost everything about it and think James Cameron has taken a wrong turn...fuck, the same guy that made Aliens and Terminator 2 made this blue thundercats movie? I, like many, loved UO. I also like SWTOR a lot (which a lot of people hate). It's just different tastes in the end.
Really, when you think about it, most games are pretty much the same but in a slightly different flavor. "Sir, would you like the MMO with the warcraft syrup, the star wars syrup, the dungeons and dragons syrup (it's low fat), the guild wars milk (it's also reduced fat)?"
Ironically, though, Avatar is not critically acclaimed as a good film. The fans love it, other industry professionals not so much (aside from the visual fx). GW2, on the other hand, is recognized by other devs as an impressive game. However, most gamers continually say that it's crap.
Thing is, the game is very polarizing, and has been from day 1 of release. Some people 'get it' and enjoy it, others don't or it's just simply not the game for them. However, this always seems to quickly devolve into a pissing contest, of who is more riteous, which is absolutely ridiculous.
GW2 is not a perfect game, it has a lot of flaws, however it succeeded in doing the bulk of what it set out to do. But for whatever reason a lot of people seem incapable of accepting this. A game can be imperfect and still be successful. Just because you don't like a game, doesn't mean it's bad.
- The funny thing about people believing that all MMOs are the same, is that when you actually stop and take an objective look at ALL mmos, there is actually a lot of differences. We've just conditioned ourselves to think that they don't matter. It's kinda like saying all rock music is the same, or all cars are the same. When you think about things in general enough terms, everything seems the same. It's the details, design, & execution that make them different. All cars may have 4 wheels and an engine, but I don't think anyone would believe that a porsche is no different from a ford truck. Just as all FPS games have a retical and you shooting things, but I don't think anyone would argue that halflife is the same as Call of Duty, with a different paint job.
Avatar currently holds an 83% rating on rottentomatoes and is the highest grossing film of all time. It was also nominated for numerous Academy Awards including Best Picture and Best Director. I think it's pretty well regarded,
Yes, all MMOs have subtle differences but really they all share the same core components. Those core components is what I am talking about. Those few that really stand out from the rest are so few that it's basically just become the same game recycled with slight changes.
Well, Grimal seems to be speaking sense at the moment.
Then ANet took everything I loved about GW1, removed the best parts and WOWified the rest. Did you expect GW1 with a 2 at the end? i didnt and as a GW1 lover i also love GW2, they are so different and still the same awesome Lore. If GW2 was the same GW1 then i would have stayed with my Trilogy only. I expect new mmos to evolve, and they did just that.
GW2 just became a generic mmo , but it absurdly pointed out its superficial differences like they meant anything to a crowd tired of derivative games. 'We don't have trinity!'. 'We don't have quest hubs'. 'We have a living story'.
So we got a world without meaning, filled with trivial tasks.
You completely lost me with this comment..... so trinity and generic linear quest hubs add meaning to mmorpgs? lol.......No wonder we have so many failures lately, since they all still try to shamelessly recreate WoW, fail, dont learn a lesson, rinse and repeat.... because they have so much meaning.... lol.....It is totally ok that as a GW1 fan (or so you say) you dont like GW2. It is supossed to be a sequel lore-wise, not a copy past of the first game
GW2 is far from perfect, but it did a lot of things better than most generic mmos we still get today. And at least to me personally, it feels less trivial task- focused than the rest.
Originally posted by Lord.BachusYou cant compare rift dynamic events with GW2, in rift they are a mechanic ( tough i love the invasion parts) but in GW2 they are used to tell the stories of an area, and they are very very good at that...
I am sorry but you can compare them, the base mechanic is the same. Yes some GW2 events do tell a story but some are mindless that have little to relate to the areas they are in.
Also from a poster a few above saying that Rift was announced after GW2, yes it was but since GW2 was announced not to long after the release of Nightfall (sometime after year 3) then you can say about anything that was announced after that took from GW2. Since we don't know when GW2 started work in the events it is possible that Rift did do them first, regardless Rift came out first thus had them first. Same as when people say WoW did things first when in realty mmos before WoW had done them. Whoever comes out first with something gets credit, GW2 just expanded some on the events mainly in story which is strange since the games story is week compared to GW1 (but this is not a GW1 did it better post).
Anyway I also find GW2 tedious, if others like the game that is fine as they are free to like what they want like I am free to think the game is tedious.
First of all Rift is not the first game with this kind of event system. First game with this system is Warhammer Online with a name "public quests" on it. And second, Guild Wars 2 already announced dynamic events before Rift even came out. Even Guild Wars 2 changed dynamic events a lot compared to Warhammer Online. What did Rift do? Changed the name and tadaa we got rifts in our game!!! They didn't even changed the reward and stage systems. You can say Rift is a good game etc etc... But Rift is a game without innovation. Rift is all about a new ip with other games' good parts and with a shitty engine. That's all they can do. Copy copy copy...
I was a huge fan of GW1, so I keep trying GW2 in the hope that it will eventually 'click'.
To me GW1 was one of the most innovative and unique games ever made. In the WOW era it was heavily
To me Gw1 was one of worst craps out there (and not only for being unable to simply JUMP(!!!) in game that is MMO and not some prehistorical 2D single player game). Gw2 was and it is a blast. But for that experiment with heart quests, dynamic random events, .... Sole reason I left. If they would implement classic questing and progression Gw2 would be for me one of best games ever for money I spent.
I've definitely tried to love GW2 but I have many of the same issues with it that others have discussed, I just don't feel immersed in this game, the world itself just feels like a big playground. While I do have some issues with the combat (I feel its way too floaty and lacks impact) it works and makes the fights at least more mobile giving you a little more freedom then your typical tab target mmo.
I think the magic was lost for me when I discovered that people would just grind the exact same events over and over again to level and that these "dynamic" events aren't really so dynamic at all. For a large majority of the events I came across people knew to the second when it would repeat, kill everything in seconds, move to phase 2-3 etc... and wouldn't do anything else leaving the rest of the map vacant because its more efficient to stay there and grind. The highest level I have reached is in the 60s so my experience with the game is limited but every time I sit down to take a serious shot at GW2 I find myself hitting the same wall.
I have several issues "in principal" with Guild Wars 2 as a long-time MMO player - Especially way their marketing team pissed all over previous and other current MMO's and how broken the genre is and how GW2 was going to be the savior ...
...and now I'm still playing it about 1-2 times per week. Go figure. I just don't have time to invest in more hardcore titles anymore so it's just about the only game I feel I have a fair shot competing in without needing to quit my job or ignore my family.
GW1 was heavily instanced, story driven, low level cap, lots of story-driven end game, dual classes, skills caps, aesthetic rewards etc etc. This made it unique.
GW2 is a derivative mmo. It has none of the above but has all of WOW's features. With the exception that ! is replaced with a heart symbol and there are 'dynamic' quests (which have also existed in wow for a number of years but handled via phasing. Oh, and that the trinity has been replaced with everyone throwing their little bit of the trinity into the mix.
well since we gw2 players haven't played gw1 the it's pretty clear that you haven't played gw2. Compairing GW2 to wow is strange, sure it's a fantasy game. Sure one could argue that both games are casual. Causal doesn't mean that there is nothing to do in the game, I mean why do you think any mmo creator would aim towards people who doesn't need to log in. Casual in GW2 means that it's easy to get highend gear to play most content and it is. You grind cosmetics in GW2 if you want to while in WOW it's an endgame gear progression, nothing alike.
Isn't GW2 story driven? The living story is a story updated every two weeks while wow has end game raiding, how is this the same?
GW1 was a true anti-mmo acordningly to you so you find it to be strange that gw2 would be a model for upcoming mmos, well in your words gw1 ins't a mmo while GW2 is a mmo so whats so strange about it other then the fact that you don't like mmos since you play gw1. Well maybe singel player games is more for you then.
I hate quest hubs and I don't enjoy hearts but they are an improvment but far from perfect.
I don't get why you think Arenanet is aiming for people who don't have to login? No mmo maker in the world is aiming for a growd that doesn't have to login cause if they were then no one would play it.
I login everyday almost and usually play for hours and have fun with my friends. I find it funny that you think that there are to many level in GW2, it's easy to level a char up just like in most mmos does it matter if there is 50 or 200 level to gain if you get them fast anyway?
I just can't see what you find simular with wow and gw2 other then they are great games both of them but other then that they are very much different.
GW1 was heavily instanced, story driven, low level cap, lots of story-driven end game, dual classes, skills caps, aesthetic rewards etc etc. This made it unique.
GW2 is a derivative mmo. It has none of the above but has all of WOW's features. With the exception that ! is replaced with a heart symbol and there are 'dynamic' quests (which have also existed in wow for a number of years but handled via phasing. Oh, and that the trinity has been replaced with everyone throwing their little bit of the trinity into the mix.
well since we gw2 players haven't played gw1 the it's pretty clear that you haven't played gw2. Compairing GW2 to wow is strange, sure it's a fantasy game. Sure one could argue that both games are casual. Causal doesn't mean that there is nothing to do in the game, I mean why do you think any mmo creator would aim towards people who doesn't need to log in. Casual in GW2 means that it's easy to get highend gear to play most content and it is. You grind cosmetics in GW2 if you want to while in WOW it's an endgame gear progression, nothing alike.
Isn't GW2 story driven? The living story is a story updated every two weeks while wow has end game raiding, how is this the same?
GW1 was a true anti-mmo acordningly to you so you find it to be strange that gw2 would be a model for upcoming mmos, well in your words gw1 ins't a mmo while GW2 is a mmo so whats so strange about it other then the fact that you don't like mmos since you play gw1. Well maybe singel player games is more for you then.
I hate quest hubs and I don't enjoy hearts but they are an improvment but far from perfect.
I don't get why you think Arenanet is aiming for people who don't have to login? No mmo maker in the world is aiming for a growd that doesn't have to login cause if they were then no one would play it.
I login everyday almost and usually play for hours and have fun with my friends. I find it funny that you think that there are to many level in GW2, it's easy to level a char up just like in most mmos does it matter if there is 50 or 200 level to gain if you get them fast anyway?
I just can't see what you find simular with wow and gw2 other then they are great games both of them but other then that they are very much different.
things I did not say but you invented marked in red.
GW1 was heavily instanced, story driven, low level cap, lots of story-driven end game, dual classes, skills caps, aesthetic rewards etc etc. This made it unique.
GW2 is a derivative mmo. It has none of the above but has all of WOW's features. With the exception that ! is replaced with a heart symbol and there are 'dynamic' quests (which have also existed in wow for a number of years but handled via phasing. Oh, and that the trinity has been replaced with everyone throwing their little bit of the trinity into the mix.
Whoa whoa whoa. Hold up there for a minute.
GW2 has none of that? Have you played the game recently? Instances, story, story drive end game, and aesthetic rewards are what GW2 is built on. Story and aesthetic rewards are what drives all of GW2's end game. Playing GW2 is like being a part of an ongoing TV show that releases 5+ hour long episodes every other week.
It's also hard to take anyone who dismisses dynamic events entirely in a single sentence seriously. GW2 did with the event concept what WoW did with the quest concept - it built its entire open world around them for the first time in MMO history. The result is a more natural and fluid open world experience that is also completely unique. You simply can't find a similar leveling experience in any other MMO.
Tapping your heels three times and saying "it's the same, it's the same, it's the same" doesn't actually make it the same as other games.
GW1 was heavily instanced, story driven, low level cap, lots of story-driven end game, dual classes, skills caps, aesthetic rewards etc etc. This made it unique.
GW2 is a derivative mmo. It has none of the above but has all of WOW's features. With the exception that ! is replaced with a heart symbol and there are 'dynamic' quests (which have also existed in wow for a number of years but handled via phasing. Oh, and that the trinity has been replaced with everyone throwing their little bit of the trinity into the mix.
Whoa whoa whoa. Hold up there for a minute.
GW2 has none of that? Have you played the game recently? Instances, story, story drive end game, and aesthetic rewards are what GW2 is built on. Story and aesthetic rewards are what drives all of GW2's end game. Playing GW2 is like being a part of an ongoing TV show that releases 5+ hour long episodes every other week.
It's also hard to take anyone who dismisses dynamic events entirely in a single sentence seriously. GW2 did with the event concept what WoW did with the quest concept - it built its entire open world around them for the first time in MMO history. The result is a more natural and fluid open world experience that is also completely unique. You simply can't find a similar leveling experience in any other MMO.
Tapping your heels three times and saying "it's the same, it's the same, it's the same" doesn't actually make it the same as other games.
I like your post!
Even if I hated GW2, I wouldn't even think of comparing it to WoW, other than it has a fantasy theme to it. It is without a doubt one of the first truly different games I have played that broke the mold. And because it did, is why a lot of people have such a problem with it (imho).
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Comments
Avatar currently holds an 83% rating on rottentomatoes and is the highest grossing film of all time. It was also nominated for numerous Academy Awards including Best Picture and Best Director. I think it's pretty well regarded,
Yes, all MMOs have subtle differences but really they all share the same core components. Those core components is what I am talking about. Those few that really stand out from the rest are so few that it's basically just become the same game recycled with slight changes.
Well, Grimal seems to be speaking sense at the moment.
First of all Rift is not the first game with this kind of event system. First game with this system is Warhammer Online with a name "public quests" on it. And second, Guild Wars 2 already announced dynamic events before Rift even came out. Even Guild Wars 2 changed dynamic events a lot compared to Warhammer Online. What did Rift do? Changed the name and tadaa we got rifts in our game!!! They didn't even changed the reward and stage systems. You can say Rift is a good game etc etc... But Rift is a game without innovation. Rift is all about a new ip with other games' good parts and with a shitty engine. That's all they can do. Copy copy copy...
To me Gw1 was one of worst craps out there (and not only for being unable to simply JUMP(!!!) in game that is MMO and not some prehistorical 2D single player game). Gw2 was and it is a blast. But for that experiment with heart quests, dynamic random events, .... Sole reason I left. If they would implement classic questing and progression Gw2 would be for me one of best games ever for money I spent.
I've definitely tried to love GW2 but I have many of the same issues with it that others have discussed, I just don't feel immersed in this game, the world itself just feels like a big playground. While I do have some issues with the combat (I feel its way too floaty and lacks impact) it works and makes the fights at least more mobile giving you a little more freedom then your typical tab target mmo.
I think the magic was lost for me when I discovered that people would just grind the exact same events over and over again to level and that these "dynamic" events aren't really so dynamic at all. For a large majority of the events I came across people knew to the second when it would repeat, kill everything in seconds, move to phase 2-3 etc... and wouldn't do anything else leaving the rest of the map vacant because its more efficient to stay there and grind. The highest level I have reached is in the 60s so my experience with the game is limited but every time I sit down to take a serious shot at GW2 I find myself hitting the same wall.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
I have several issues "in principal" with Guild Wars 2 as a long-time MMO player - Especially way their marketing team pissed all over previous and other current MMO's and how broken the genre is and how GW2 was going to be the savior ...
...and now I'm still playing it about 1-2 times per week. Go figure. I just don't have time to invest in more hardcore titles anymore so it's just about the only game I feel I have a fair shot competing in without needing to quit my job or ignore my family.
well since we gw2 players haven't played gw1 the it's pretty clear that you haven't played gw2. Compairing GW2 to wow is strange, sure it's a fantasy game. Sure one could argue that both games are casual. Causal doesn't mean that there is nothing to do in the game, I mean why do you think any mmo creator would aim towards people who doesn't need to log in. Casual in GW2 means that it's easy to get highend gear to play most content and it is. You grind cosmetics in GW2 if you want to while in WOW it's an endgame gear progression, nothing alike.
Isn't GW2 story driven? The living story is a story updated every two weeks while wow has end game raiding, how is this the same?
GW1 was a true anti-mmo acordningly to you so you find it to be strange that gw2 would be a model for upcoming mmos, well in your words gw1 ins't a mmo while GW2 is a mmo so whats so strange about it other then the fact that you don't like mmos since you play gw1. Well maybe singel player games is more for you then.
I hate quest hubs and I don't enjoy hearts but they are an improvment but far from perfect.
I don't get why you think Arenanet is aiming for people who don't have to login? No mmo maker in the world is aiming for a growd that doesn't have to login cause if they were then no one would play it.
I login everyday almost and usually play for hours and have fun with my friends. I find it funny that you think that there are to many level in GW2, it's easy to level a char up just like in most mmos does it matter if there is 50 or 200 level to gain if you get them fast anyway?
I just can't see what you find simular with wow and gw2 other then they are great games both of them but other then that they are very much different.
things I did not say but you invented marked in red.
Whoa whoa whoa. Hold up there for a minute.
GW2 has none of that? Have you played the game recently? Instances, story, story drive end game, and aesthetic rewards are what GW2 is built on. Story and aesthetic rewards are what drives all of GW2's end game. Playing GW2 is like being a part of an ongoing TV show that releases 5+ hour long episodes every other week.
It's also hard to take anyone who dismisses dynamic events entirely in a single sentence seriously. GW2 did with the event concept what WoW did with the quest concept - it built its entire open world around them for the first time in MMO history. The result is a more natural and fluid open world experience that is also completely unique. You simply can't find a similar leveling experience in any other MMO.
Tapping your heels three times and saying "it's the same, it's the same, it's the same" doesn't actually make it the same as other games.
I like your post!
Even if I hated GW2, I wouldn't even think of comparing it to WoW, other than it has a fantasy theme to it. It is without a doubt one of the first truly different games I have played that broke the mold. And because it did, is why a lot of people have such a problem with it (imho).
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.