I just read through this whole thread and it seems as if, based on everyone's opinions, the game isn't "hardcore" enough for the "hardcore" players and it isn't "casual" enough for the "casual" players. One of those times when the developers tried to please everyone (Casuals & Hardcore) and ended up pleasing no one.
Now, I have never played Wildstar, so my conclusion is based not on my opinion, but the opinions of others. Does anyone agree with this, or am just wrong?
The problem is that people thought they could be hardcore with only playing a few hours a week. Being in a Hardcore guild is the same as having a full time job. You are spending at least 40 hours playing and more researching, if you are not doing this than you are not hardcore. These are the people that Carbine was wanting and they got some of them and they are enjoying the game like no other. Most of the people complaining are people who thought they were good and cant even clear the first boss yet.
Or they are true hardcores who were looking for raid encounters that were harder than WoW's hardest fights, and they were upset to find that not a single WS raid boss is harder than WoW's hardest heroic encounters.
If you are going to mention one extreem, you might as well mention the other as well. Wildstar's schtick about being "the most hardcore MMO" kind of flew out the window the moment guilds actually started clearing the encounters and wern't having to take carbine's "word" as to the diffaculty of the raids. Yes they are hard, yes they are some of the hardest in the industry, but some of WoW's heroic raids are still (unfortunatly) the toughest in any MMO.
Well if you watch the last boss that was just killed this week you will see that it has more precision than any WoW raid right now. Heroic Garrosh doesnt have as many mechanics as the last boss in Wildstar had it looked, players are constantly moving. Most heroic fights in WoW are still for the most part stand in one place, move out of huge blast every so often. being a tank and DPS I dont think I have ever moved in Heroic content as much as Wildstar does, combine that with raiding with 40 people who have to move out of the same stuff and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
I just read through this whole thread and it seems as if, based on everyone's opinions, the game isn't "hardcore" enough for the "hardcore" players and it isn't "casual" enough for the "casual" players. One of those times when the developers tried to please everyone (Casuals & Hardcore) and ended up pleasing no one.
Now, I have never played Wildstar, so my conclusion is based not on my opinion, but the opinions of others. Does anyone agree with this, or am just wrong?
The problem is that people thought they could be hardcore with only playing a few hours a week. Being in a Hardcore guild is the same as having a full time job. You are spending at least 40 hours playing and more researching, if you are not doing this than you are not hardcore. These are the people that Carbine was wanting and they got some of them and they are enjoying the game like no other. Most of the people complaining are people who thought they were good and cant even clear the first boss yet.
Or they are true hardcores who were looking for raid encounters that were harder than WoW's hardest fights, and they were upset to find that not a single WS raid boss is harder than WoW's hardest heroic encounters.
If you are going to mention one extreem, you might as well mention the other as well. Wildstar's schtick about being "the most hardcore MMO" kind of flew out the window the moment guilds actually started clearing the encounters and wern't having to take carbine's "word" as to the diffaculty of the raids. Yes they are hard, yes they are some of the hardest in the industry, but some of WoW's heroic raids are still (unfortunatly) the toughest in any MMO.
Well if you watch the last boss that was just killed this week you will see that it has more precision than any WoW raid right now. Heroic Garrosh doesnt have as many mechanics as the last boss in Wildstar had it looked, players are constantly moving. Most heroic fights in WoW are still for the most part stand in one place, move out of huge blast every so often. being a tank and DPS I dont think I have ever moved in Heroic content as much as Wildstar does, combine that with raiding with 40 people who have to move out of the same stuff and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
I've read the fight breakdowns for every 40man WS boss....Heroic Garrosh 100% has each and every one of them beat, as do a few others in SoO as well.
Go look at the attempt count as well.....fights are taking Wildstar world first guilds 200+ attempt to down, meanwhile WoW world first guilds who are the best in the world and raid 16 hours a day non stop until progression is over had taken 700-1000+ attempts to down many bosses in Heoric SoO.
I just read through this whole thread and it seems as if, based on everyone's opinions, the game isn't "hardcore" enough for the "hardcore" players and it isn't "casual" enough for the "casual" players. One of those times when the developers tried to please everyone (Casuals & Hardcore) and ended up pleasing no one.
Now, I have never played Wildstar, so my conclusion is based not on my opinion, but the opinions of others. Does anyone agree with this, or am just wrong?
The problem is that people thought they could be hardcore with only playing a few hours a week. Being in a Hardcore guild is the same as having a full time job. You are spending at least 40 hours playing and more researching, if you are not doing this than you are not hardcore. These are the people that Carbine was wanting and they got some of them and they are enjoying the game like no other. Most of the people complaining are people who thought they were good and cant even clear the first boss yet.
Or they are true hardcores who were looking for raid encounters that were harder than WoW's hardest fights, and they were upset to find that not a single WS raid boss is harder than WoW's hardest heroic encounters.
If you are going to mention one extreem, you might as well mention the other as well. Wildstar's schtick about being "the most hardcore MMO" kind of flew out the window the moment guilds actually started clearing the encounters and wern't having to take carbine's "word" as to the diffaculty of the raids. Yes they are hard, yes they are some of the hardest in the industry, but some of WoW's heroic raids are still (unfortunatly) the toughest in any MMO.
Well if you watch the last boss that was just killed this week you will see that it has more precision than any WoW raid right now. Heroic Garrosh doesnt have as many mechanics as the last boss in Wildstar had it looked, players are constantly moving. Most heroic fights in WoW are still for the most part stand in one place, move out of huge blast every so often. being a tank and DPS I dont think I have ever moved in Heroic content as much as Wildstar does, combine that with raiding with 40 people who have to move out of the same stuff and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
I've read the fight breakdowns for every 40man WS boss....Heroic Garrosh 100% has each and every one of them beat, as do a few others in SoO as well.
Reading and doing are 2 different things. If you watch the fight you will see what im talking about. The fight breakdown doesnt say you have to be moving 100% of the fights but you still have to.
I just read through this whole thread and it seems as if, based on everyone's opinions, the game isn't "hardcore" enough for the "hardcore" players and it isn't "casual" enough for the "casual" players. One of those times when the developers tried to please everyone (Casuals & Hardcore) and ended up pleasing no one.
Now, I have never played Wildstar, so my conclusion is based not on my opinion, but the opinions of others. Does anyone agree with this, or am just wrong?
The problem is that people thought they could be hardcore with only playing a few hours a week. Being in a Hardcore guild is the same as having a full time job. You are spending at least 40 hours playing and more researching, if you are not doing this than you are not hardcore. These are the people that Carbine was wanting and they got some of them and they are enjoying the game like no other. Most of the people complaining are people who thought they were good and cant even clear the first boss yet.
Or they are true hardcores who were looking for raid encounters that were harder than WoW's hardest fights, and they were upset to find that not a single WS raid boss is harder than WoW's hardest heroic encounters.
If you are going to mention one extreem, you might as well mention the other as well. Wildstar's schtick about being "the most hardcore MMO" kind of flew out the window the moment guilds actually started clearing the encounters and wern't having to take carbine's "word" as to the diffaculty of the raids. Yes they are hard, yes they are some of the hardest in the industry, but some of WoW's heroic raids are still (unfortunatly) the toughest in any MMO.
Well if you watch the last boss that was just killed this week you will see that it has more precision than any WoW raid right now. Heroic Garrosh doesnt have as many mechanics as the last boss in Wildstar had it looked, players are constantly moving. Most heroic fights in WoW are still for the most part stand in one place, move out of huge blast every so often. being a tank and DPS I dont think I have ever moved in Heroic content as much as Wildstar does, combine that with raiding with 40 people who have to move out of the same stuff and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
I've read the fight breakdowns for every 40man WS boss....Heroic Garrosh 100% has each and every one of them beat, as do a few others in SoO as well.
Reading and doing are 2 different things. If you watch the fight you will see what im talking about. The fight breakdown doesnt say you have to be moving 100% of the fights but you still have to.
It took the top 5 Wildstar guilds less than 20 days to clear the first raid...thats including the time it took to complete the artifical gating that is attunements....it took the world first WoW guild, which raids 16 hours a day non stop until progression is complete, over a month to clear Heroic SoO with 0 gating in place. And that's just the first guild to have cleared it. I've watched AND read all of the fights....Wildstar has 0 fights are are more complex and hard than some of the SoO encounters. You should do the same, you will see.
Even Enigma (world first WS guild, was #4 US in WoW Cataclysm) has said that though WS has the best raid content on release of any MMO, it is still slighly behind WoW's heroic modes......Please stop this conversation lol.
I just read through this whole thread and it seems as if, based on everyone's opinions, the game isn't "hardcore" enough for the "hardcore" players and it isn't "casual" enough for the "casual" players. One of those times when the developers tried to please everyone (Casuals & Hardcore) and ended up pleasing no one.
Now, I have never played Wildstar, so my conclusion is based not on my opinion, but the opinions of others. Does anyone agree with this, or am just wrong?
The problem is that people thought they could be hardcore with only playing a few hours a week. Being in a Hardcore guild is the same as having a full time job. You are spending at least 40 hours playing and more researching, if you are not doing this than you are not hardcore. These are the people that Carbine was wanting and they got some of them and they are enjoying the game like no other. Most of the people complaining are people who thought they were good and cant even clear the first boss yet.
Or they are true hardcores who were looking for raid encounters that were harder than WoW's hardest fights, and they were upset to find that not a single WS raid boss is harder than WoW's hardest heroic encounters.
If you are going to mention one extreem, you might as well mention the other as well. Wildstar's schtick about being "the most hardcore MMO" kind of flew out the window the moment guilds actually started clearing the encounters and wern't having to take carbine's "word" as to the diffaculty of the raids. Yes they are hard, yes they are some of the hardest in the industry, but some of WoW's heroic raids are still (unfortunatly) the toughest in any MMO.
Well if you watch the last boss that was just killed this week you will see that it has more precision than any WoW raid right now. Heroic Garrosh doesnt have as many mechanics as the last boss in Wildstar had it looked, players are constantly moving. Most heroic fights in WoW are still for the most part stand in one place, move out of huge blast every so often. being a tank and DPS I dont think I have ever moved in Heroic content as much as Wildstar does, combine that with raiding with 40 people who have to move out of the same stuff and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
I've read the fight breakdowns for every 40man WS boss....Heroic Garrosh 100% has each and every one of them beat, as do a few others in SoO as well.
Reading and doing are 2 different things. If you watch the fight you will see what im talking about. The fight breakdown doesnt say you have to be moving 100% of the fights but you still have to.
It took the top 5 Wildstar guilds less than 20 days to clear the first raid...thats including the time it took to complete the artifical gating that is attunements....it took the world first WoW guild, which raids 16 hours a day non stop until progression is complete, over a month to clear Heroic SoO with 0 gating in place. And that's just the first guild to have cleared it. I've watched AND read all of the fights....Wildstar has 0 fights are are more complex and hard than some of the SoO encounters. You should do the same, you will see.
Even Enigma (world first WS guild) has said that though WS has the best raid content on release of any MMO, it is still slighly behind WoW's heroic modes......Please stop this conversation lol.
Um nowhere did I say WoWs raids werent hard. You said earlier that it wasnt hardcore enough. But according to the people who are clearing both WoW and WS are saying that WS is up there in difficulty. WoW has gear limits which is the reason why some raids take longer, I dont know if Wildstar has this problem. But until you play it, stop reading about it, then you have no idea really. Let me know when you clear any heroic content then get back to me.
When the game came out I made the very simple comment that the parent company was well known for B2P games and that's what WS should have been. Just like GW2, pack the place out with players, and keep them coming back with neat content. Do you see GW2 struggling? Nope. And that's what WS should have done. The fact it didn't absolutely boggled my mind then and still boggles my mind today. Who made that decision? They are clearly an idiot.
I just read through this whole thread and it seems as if, based on everyone's opinions, the game isn't "hardcore" enough for the "hardcore" players and it isn't "casual" enough for the "casual" players. One of those times when the developers tried to please everyone (Casuals & Hardcore) and ended up pleasing no one.
Now, I have never played Wildstar, so my conclusion is based not on my opinion, but the opinions of others. Does anyone agree with this, or am just wrong?
The problem is that people thought they could be hardcore with only playing a few hours a week. Being in a Hardcore guild is the same as having a full time job. You are spending at least 40 hours playing and more researching, if you are not doing this than you are not hardcore. These are the people that Carbine was wanting and they got some of them and they are enjoying the game like no other. Most of the people complaining are people who thought they were good and cant even clear the first boss yet.
Or they are true hardcores who were looking for raid encounters that were harder than WoW's hardest fights, and they were upset to find that not a single WS raid boss is harder than WoW's hardest heroic encounters.
If you are going to mention one extreem, you might as well mention the other as well. Wildstar's schtick about being "the most hardcore MMO" kind of flew out the window the moment guilds actually started clearing the encounters and wern't having to take carbine's "word" as to the diffaculty of the raids. Yes they are hard, yes they are some of the hardest in the industry, but some of WoW's heroic raids are still (unfortunatly) the toughest in any MMO.
Well if you watch the last boss that was just killed this week you will see that it has more precision than any WoW raid right now. Heroic Garrosh doesnt have as many mechanics as the last boss in Wildstar had it looked, players are constantly moving. Most heroic fights in WoW are still for the most part stand in one place, move out of huge blast every so often. being a tank and DPS I dont think I have ever moved in Heroic content as much as Wildstar does, combine that with raiding with 40 people who have to move out of the same stuff and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
I've read the fight breakdowns for every 40man WS boss....Heroic Garrosh 100% has each and every one of them beat, as do a few others in SoO as well.
Reading and doing are 2 different things. If you watch the fight you will see what im talking about. The fight breakdown doesnt say you have to be moving 100% of the fights but you still have to.
It took the top 5 Wildstar guilds less than 20 days to clear the first raid...thats including the time it took to complete the artifical gating that is attunements....it took the world first WoW guild, which raids 16 hours a day non stop until progression is complete, over a month to clear Heroic SoO with 0 gating in place. And that's just the first guild to have cleared it. I've watched AND read all of the fights....Wildstar has 0 fights are are more complex and hard than some of the SoO encounters. You should do the same, you will see.
Even Enigma (world first WS guild) has said that though WS has the best raid content on release of any MMO, it is still slighly behind WoW's heroic modes......Please stop this conversation lol.
Um nowhere did I say WoWs raids werent hard. You said earlier that it wasnt hardcore enough. But according to the people who are clearing both WoW and WS are saying that WS is up there in difficulty. WoW has gear limits which is the reason why some raids take longer, I dont know if Wildstar has this problem. But until you play it, stop reading about it, then you have no idea really. Let me know when you clear any heroic content then get back to me.
Way to completely ignore everything about enigma, the world first WS guild who also was a top contender in WoW. And the gear thing you are mentioning about WoW 100% applies to WS too...they are both gear grinds....WS just has an added gate, which are attunements. And I never accused you of saying WoW was easy, nor did I ever say WS was easy...thats when you know the discusison is over, when the person you are having the discussion with completely fabricates talking points.
In any event, the reality is neither of us has cleared the wildstar raids, but I am willing to take enigma's (and other world first first WS guilds) word about the raid toughness compared to WoW over yours, tyvm lol.
I have no problem with game having hard group content. Game was advertised as such, and complaining about difficulty of the game, and bitching about the game punishing you for "not being good enough" is out of place. You don't come to EVE and expect a themepark, and you don't come to WoW and expect challenge.
I have no problems with game having boring and somewhat "grindy" levelling, that is the way of doing things in most themepark MMO's, and if you complain about quest grind in MMO games, you should reconsider your gaming habits. If anything, levelling process gives you the opportunity to learn your class, and practice the combat system.
What I do have problems with is attunement. I believe the game should let me decide when I am ready to raid. If I am not ready, and not geared, I will get wiped, but that is my problem. Why do I, after completing the levelling process, after learning all there is to learn about my class, need to go through lenghty, grindy and ultimately useless process of "attunement" just so I could start the lenghty, grindy but at least fun and challenging process of raid progression? The only reason I can think of is that they decided to implement it to artificially prolong the endgame. I am all for long endgame progression, but attunement is not progression, its a grind with no purpose other than to force you to sink time before the raid.
Were down from 300 guildies 30 on ts at all times to maby 10 guildies loged in and 3 on ts.
Lots of reasons u need 32k rep of which is mostly farmed 400 at a time by running the adventuers ok your got 32k so now you have run them again to get silver. Can you see how this would get old fast.
The best stuff u can buy in the auction house will cost you 20-70 plat. Which u can buy at a rate of 20 rl dollars for about 5.5 plat.
this is in a game where are paying 15 a month to play.
You have to do the unlocks in an exact order even if u did 2-7 to heal your friends and skiped one then you have to go back and do them again.
It looks like a silly cartoon game and tryes to be a HARDCORE game.
I predict it will go free to play before Christmass.
I don't think in this case its that it caters to the hardcore playerbase. There are plenty of hardcore players, and if you get enough of them, you can get something truly awesome (EVE online is one example).
The main reason I see for Wildstar's failings is because it didn't really bring anything new to the table.
The game does what every other MMO out there does: Throws you into a starting zone, and from there on, its nothing but quest hubs. No real reason to explore, save for some of the smaller things like the settler stuff and whatnot, but otherwise your simply leveling through questing(which at the end of the day aren't really quests IMO, they are more "Tasks"). I know the game was made by Ex-Wow devs, but the game felt literally more like a WoW clone than any other MMO out there right now. The only thing setting it apart, aside from some side mechanics, is the combat, which takes on a MOBA-Style of combat. Combine the extremely WoW-Feel with WoW/Disney looking aesthetics, and you have essentially the same crap that has been hammered out over and over again, with nothing new being brought to the table.
The "Hardcore" fanbase it was trying to cater to was the Old School WoW players that played back in Vanilla, and who were yearning for the difficulty of vanilla.
It was simply another case of a WoW-clone that tried to be "Different", and yet it seems it failed to separate itself from WoW way more than other games have. Plus there is a 60 dollar box price+ monthly subscription. Unless this is truly your bang, then you can get your "WoW Fix" without actually playing WoW by playing one of the other many MMOs currently out there for free (Rift is a prime example of this).
We have all seen the financial reports and the WS section makes dire reading.
Here are my to reasons why WS failed to achive reasonabe initial numbers and failed to retain those people they did attract: -
1) Hardcore
They hugely over-estimated the size of the hardcore market. There is a reason why most other mmo's are becoming more casual friendly. it is because the audience is ageing and the alternative entertainment options are increasing. The majority of gamers simply to not want a hardcore mmo.
2) Hardcore
They simply mistook challenge for effluxion of time. They made vast levelling zones in a game that is supposedly all about end game. Why? They then made gated content that was essentially a time sink. When you are abundantly aware that a game mechanic is a time sink you start to wonder why you are bothering.
The dungeon content is divisive. If you mess up you fall into a lower medal category, this only results in alienating player after player from your game.
They are my thoughts on the subject, please share your own.
This game is hardcore? because um, nothing ive seen about it seems hardcore.....at all.
We have all seen the financial reports and the WS section makes dire reading.
Here are my to reasons why WS failed to achive reasonabe initial numbers and failed to retain those people they did attract: -
1) Hardcore
They hugely over-estimated the size of the hardcore market. There is a reason why most other mmo's are becoming more casual friendly. it is because the audience is ageing and the alternative entertainment options are increasing. The majority of gamers simply to not want a hardcore mmo.
2) Hardcore
They simply mistook challenge for effluxion of time. They made vast levelling zones in a game that is supposedly all about end game. Why? They then made gated content that was essentially a time sink. When you are abundantly aware that a game mechanic is a time sink you start to wonder why you are bothering.
The dungeon content is divisive. If you mess up you fall into a lower medal category, this only results in alienating player after player from your game.
They are my thoughts on the subject, please share your own.
It's simple. People keep asking for 'endgame, endgame, endgame', meaning hardcore raiding.
Problem is, most people don't actually enjoy hardcore raiding. They like getting loot, sure, but they don't want to deal w/ the hastle & drama of dealing with ~39 other people to get it.
Wildstar tried to deliver what these people wanted. And they accomplished that. Problem is, those people aren't as numerous as they'd have you believe. And you can't have an MMO without a lot of people.
I gave wildstar 7-day trial a try when they posted the key giveaway on this site. I try playing wildstar for couple hours but I ended up giving up on playing it. Something was missing I just could not place my finger on it and the game was just boring to me.
I can't say if wildstar is struggling or not but I can say wildstar is not a game for me.
Someone stated that WoW started with 200k subs, ofc, but then look again and think why they grew so fast. It was first casual friendly (at that time, if someone says WoW vanilla was hardocore then he is lunatic ) game on the market. If you like it or don't casual playerbase is far greater than hardcore ones. WoW on the other hand does one thing very well, balance between hardcore and casual. While they have normal raids and lfr that caters more to casual playerbase that want to see the content but not on a competitive level, alongside they have heroic version of raids that is suited more towards hardcore players. I don't know how raids in WS looks, they may be harder than heroic raid versions in WoW, but You can't say WoW heroic raids are casual easy, You need dedication and skill with Your class to be a valuable addition in Your "hardcore" team and progress in heroic content. As Pandas (i hate them ) says, balance is everything.
I don't know maybe WS devs want their game to be a niche hardcore game
I leveled to 50 and messed around a little, but I quitjust because the combat system is horrible. It's nice to have something different for a change, but it introduces more problems than there should be. Content is nothing more than a spam-fest... Especially PVP. How is PvP even fun when it is nothing but groups of people spamming shit on the ground (telegraphs)... Oh look a mask spawned... spam spam spam. Where is the skill???
It's simple. People keep asking for 'endgame, endgame, endgame', meaning hardcore raiding.
Problem is, most people don't actually enjoy hardcore raiding. They like getting loot, sure, but they don't want to deal w/ the hastle & drama of dealing with ~39 other people to get it.
Wildstar tried to deliver what these people wanted. And they accomplished that. Problem is, those people aren't as numerous as they'd have you believe. And you can't have an MMO without a lot of people.
This is a big problem with the design of most endgames. Some people love the grind, reseeing the same content over and over again, doing hundreds of daily quests to attune for a big raid, only to do the raid over and over again in the hopes that their item will drop and that they will win the role.
However, I think it is wrong for games to offer just that at endgame. There is so much more that can be done, and one thing I liked about classic LotRO is that at one point they kept releasing new books for high levels players to enjoy in that game. In EQ2 they add heroic zones along with more solo-oriented zones along with a large amount of new fluff items to go collect.
WoW went from being hardcore raids to having a large variety of things to do at endgame.
I think these are the right ideas though there is more that can be done. Taking an old idea, why not have more realm vs realm like PvP where endgame players can fight for keeps and towers and such? Why not have high level PvP dungeons? How about adding more endgame crafting elements like complex multi-part recipes or having long-term goals like building a large ship or something of that nature? Or building a guild city where a guild claims a guild plot and they have to quite literally work together to fight off nasty monsters and build long-term structures?
If devs only showed more creativity with endgame players would stick around a lot longer.
I followed the development of Wildstar for some months until I realized the game wasn't for me. Why isn't it successful?
Kids graphics gives the impression its a kids game. Some people like or are ok with it and some will never play it because of it. Say goodbye to half you potential market.
Action telegraph combat - again some like it some hate it. Say goodbye to another 50% or your potential market.
Subscription model - more limitations to your market
Unplayable outside NA/EU - massive drop to your potential market
Hardcore - Carbine never said it was for the 'hardcore' players only, they said it was the place the hardcore players will want to be. They want casuals but forgot to include casual content. But somehow the perception stuck and now its 'hardcore only!!!" Say goodbye to 90%of your potential market.
Add to this pvp imbalance, bugs and an obscene attunement system after release and I'm amazed anyone is still playing the game.
Wildstar's problems began at the embryonic stages of development when some bizarre decisions were made. It will be a case study of how NOT to build an mmo for many years to come. I hope SOE are taking notice in regards to EQN.
I honestly don't know what they can do to save it.
Stick around and watch Arche Age go through the same thing.
If AA goes through the same thing it won't be because of quest hubs - as those are basically a tutorial.
Also endgame WS - raids.
Endgame AA - guild vs guild PvP + land/resource control
Questing in AA means very little in the overal scope of the game - it's basically tutorial.
Questing in WS is a core mechanic.
Agree with this fully.
Anyone that is saying that AA has the same issues as WS with regards to the curse of questing hubbing has probably only played for a few hours... AA is a game that unfolds once the training wheels of the questing are removed.
No, really. Where is the set of expectations outlined by the Wildstar team or NCSoft that shows us this game is struggling? Funcom expected TSW to gain a minimum of half a million players, and they really expected a million players to show up, but only 200,000 people showed up (financial projections from the quarterly reports). That's struggling. Bioware and EA made some really dumb statements about how many people they expected to initially show up (news outlets) for SWToR, but SWToR isn't really struggling. It's making money hand over fist.
So where are the expectations to gauge Wildstar's "struggle"? Is it the same expectations where a developer didn't make a game for the people on these forums so the game must be struggling?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Could not agree LESS with OP then I do. What hardcore?? Game is hardcore as ANY new game I have played.
Btw, loved lore, a lot of hidden jewels, action combat, .... but still I'm out after 2 months and I'm afraid I'm not returning, at least not for long time. There are 2 main reasons. 1.) impossible lag, just unacceptable. If I can run completely fluidly Rift, Gw2, Wow, Swtor, .. just to mention few on very high settings, I can barely move in crowded areas in WS. Fps from 10 to 0 in Thayd. Laggy, laggy, laggy,... Improved in this time but was never back to beta levels where lag was nearly absent. Not sure what they did. And ... yessss ... I know, many do not have any lag, but MANY still do. And I do not care, my computer is not problem. 2) that impossible button mashing decision to have only 1 toolbar. For this sole reason left TSW and happend to WS also. And until this is removed I'm not planning at all to return even if they fix lag issue. And I'm sorry, because loved game, cartoony look, humour, ...
I think that there is, at it's core, a disconnection between the child friendly gfx and aiming at a 'hardcore' market. I don't mind the graphical style for most games, but it just isn't one I can 'emotionally' buy into for an MMORPG.
Oh, and the fact that it's game play seemed to be, from the start, designed for ADHD 12 year olds. This might not hold true as it goes on, but the first impression was that this was a obnoxious overly colourful themepark quest grinder with little else to offer except doing what you're told and lots of flashes and noise to make you think you are achieving..
^
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
For me this game was just too hard and when I was looking through the attunements requirement I realised there was no way in hell as a healer I was going to make it. I left sad though it was a good game. I think it might resonate with people who like punishing raids and top performance. It may have a small niche player base that will enjoy the hard core raids.
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Well if you watch the last boss that was just killed this week you will see that it has more precision than any WoW raid right now. Heroic Garrosh doesnt have as many mechanics as the last boss in Wildstar had it looked, players are constantly moving. Most heroic fights in WoW are still for the most part stand in one place, move out of huge blast every so often. being a tank and DPS I dont think I have ever moved in Heroic content as much as Wildstar does, combine that with raiding with 40 people who have to move out of the same stuff and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
I've read the fight breakdowns for every 40man WS boss....Heroic Garrosh 100% has each and every one of them beat, as do a few others in SoO as well.
Go look at the attempt count as well.....fights are taking Wildstar world first guilds 200+ attempt to down, meanwhile WoW world first guilds who are the best in the world and raid 16 hours a day non stop until progression is over had taken 700-1000+ attempts to down many bosses in Heoric SoO.
Reading and doing are 2 different things. If you watch the fight you will see what im talking about. The fight breakdown doesnt say you have to be moving 100% of the fights but you still have to.
It took the top 5 Wildstar guilds less than 20 days to clear the first raid...thats including the time it took to complete the artifical gating that is attunements....it took the world first WoW guild, which raids 16 hours a day non stop until progression is complete, over a month to clear Heroic SoO with 0 gating in place. And that's just the first guild to have cleared it. I've watched AND read all of the fights....Wildstar has 0 fights are are more complex and hard than some of the SoO encounters. You should do the same, you will see.
Even Enigma (world first WS guild, was #4 US in WoW Cataclysm) has said that though WS has the best raid content on release of any MMO, it is still slighly behind WoW's heroic modes......Please stop this conversation lol.
Um nowhere did I say WoWs raids werent hard. You said earlier that it wasnt hardcore enough. But according to the people who are clearing both WoW and WS are saying that WS is up there in difficulty. WoW has gear limits which is the reason why some raids take longer, I dont know if Wildstar has this problem. But until you play it, stop reading about it, then you have no idea really. Let me know when you clear any heroic content then get back to me.
Way to completely ignore everything about enigma, the world first WS guild who also was a top contender in WoW. And the gear thing you are mentioning about WoW 100% applies to WS too...they are both gear grinds....WS just has an added gate, which are attunements. And I never accused you of saying WoW was easy, nor did I ever say WS was easy...thats when you know the discusison is over, when the person you are having the discussion with completely fabricates talking points.
In any event, the reality is neither of us has cleared the wildstar raids, but I am willing to take enigma's (and other world first first WS guilds) word about the raid toughness compared to WoW over yours, tyvm lol.
Perfectly put!
Were down from 300 guildies 30 on ts at all times to maby 10 guildies loged in and 3 on ts.
Lots of reasons u need 32k rep of which is mostly farmed 400 at a time by running the adventuers ok your got 32k so now you have run them again to get silver. Can you see how this would get old fast.
The best stuff u can buy in the auction house will cost you 20-70 plat. Which u can buy at a rate of 20 rl dollars for about 5.5 plat.
this is in a game where are paying 15 a month to play.
You have to do the unlocks in an exact order even if u did 2-7 to heal your friends and skiped one then you have to go back and do them again.
It looks like a silly cartoon game and tryes to be a HARDCORE game.
I predict it will go free to play before Christmass.
I don't think in this case its that it caters to the hardcore playerbase. There are plenty of hardcore players, and if you get enough of them, you can get something truly awesome (EVE online is one example).
The main reason I see for Wildstar's failings is because it didn't really bring anything new to the table.
The game does what every other MMO out there does: Throws you into a starting zone, and from there on, its nothing but quest hubs. No real reason to explore, save for some of the smaller things like the settler stuff and whatnot, but otherwise your simply leveling through questing(which at the end of the day aren't really quests IMO, they are more "Tasks"). I know the game was made by Ex-Wow devs, but the game felt literally more like a WoW clone than any other MMO out there right now. The only thing setting it apart, aside from some side mechanics, is the combat, which takes on a MOBA-Style of combat. Combine the extremely WoW-Feel with WoW/Disney looking aesthetics, and you have essentially the same crap that has been hammered out over and over again, with nothing new being brought to the table.
The "Hardcore" fanbase it was trying to cater to was the Old School WoW players that played back in Vanilla, and who were yearning for the difficulty of vanilla.
It was simply another case of a WoW-clone that tried to be "Different", and yet it seems it failed to separate itself from WoW way more than other games have. Plus there is a 60 dollar box price+ monthly subscription. Unless this is truly your bang, then you can get your "WoW Fix" without actually playing WoW by playing one of the other many MMOs currently out there for free (Rift is a prime example of this).
This game is hardcore? because um, nothing ive seen about it seems hardcore.....at all.
It's simple. People keep asking for 'endgame, endgame, endgame', meaning hardcore raiding.
Problem is, most people don't actually enjoy hardcore raiding. They like getting loot, sure, but they don't want to deal w/ the hastle & drama of dealing with ~39 other people to get it.
Wildstar tried to deliver what these people wanted. And they accomplished that. Problem is, those people aren't as numerous as they'd have you believe. And you can't have an MMO without a lot of people.
I gave wildstar 7-day trial a try when they posted the key giveaway on this site. I try playing wildstar for couple hours but I ended up giving up on playing it. Something was missing I just could not place my finger on it and the game was just boring to me.
I can't say if wildstar is struggling or not but I can say wildstar is not a game for me.
Someone stated that WoW started with 200k subs, ofc, but then look again and think why they grew so fast. It was first casual friendly (at that time, if someone says WoW vanilla was hardocore then he is lunatic
) game on the market. If you like it or don't casual playerbase is far greater than hardcore ones. WoW on the other hand does one thing very well, balance between hardcore and casual. While they have normal raids and lfr that caters more to casual playerbase that want to see the content but not on a competitive level, alongside they have heroic version of raids that is suited more towards hardcore players. I don't know how raids in WS looks, they may be harder than heroic raid versions in WoW, but You can't say WoW heroic raids are casual easy, You need dedication and skill with Your class to be a valuable addition in Your "hardcore" team and progress in heroic content. As Pandas (i hate them 
) says, balance is everything.
I don't know maybe WS devs want their game to be a niche hardcore game
This is a big problem with the design of most endgames. Some people love the grind, reseeing the same content over and over again, doing hundreds of daily quests to attune for a big raid, only to do the raid over and over again in the hopes that their item will drop and that they will win the role.
However, I think it is wrong for games to offer just that at endgame. There is so much more that can be done, and one thing I liked about classic LotRO is that at one point they kept releasing new books for high levels players to enjoy in that game. In EQ2 they add heroic zones along with more solo-oriented zones along with a large amount of new fluff items to go collect.
WoW went from being hardcore raids to having a large variety of things to do at endgame.
I think these are the right ideas though there is more that can be done. Taking an old idea, why not have more realm vs realm like PvP where endgame players can fight for keeps and towers and such? Why not have high level PvP dungeons? How about adding more endgame crafting elements like complex multi-part recipes or having long-term goals like building a large ship or something of that nature? Or building a guild city where a guild claims a guild plot and they have to quite literally work together to fight off nasty monsters and build long-term structures?
If devs only showed more creativity with endgame players would stick around a lot longer.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
I followed the development of Wildstar for some months until I realized the game wasn't for me. Why isn't it successful?
Wildstar's problems began at the embryonic stages of development when some bizarre decisions were made. It will be a case study of how NOT to build an mmo for many years to come. I hope SOE are taking notice in regards to EQN.
I honestly don't know what they can do to save it.
Agree with this fully.
Anyone that is saying that AA has the same issues as WS with regards to the curse of questing hubbing has probably only played for a few hours... AA is a game that unfolds once the training wheels of the questing are removed.
No, really. Where is the set of expectations outlined by the Wildstar team or NCSoft that shows us this game is struggling? Funcom expected TSW to gain a minimum of half a million players, and they really expected a million players to show up, but only 200,000 people showed up (financial projections from the quarterly reports). That's struggling. Bioware and EA made some really dumb statements about how many people they expected to initially show up (news outlets) for SWToR, but SWToR isn't really struggling. It's making money hand over fist.
So where are the expectations to gauge Wildstar's "struggle"? Is it the same expectations where a developer didn't make a game for the people on these forums so the game must be struggling?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Could not agree LESS with OP then I do. What hardcore?? Game is hardcore as ANY new game I have played.
Btw, loved lore, a lot of hidden jewels, action combat, .... but still I'm out after 2 months and I'm afraid I'm not returning, at least not for long time. There are 2 main reasons. 1.) impossible lag, just unacceptable. If I can run completely fluidly Rift, Gw2, Wow, Swtor, .. just to mention few on very high settings, I can barely move in crowded areas in WS. Fps from 10 to 0 in Thayd. Laggy, laggy, laggy,... Improved in this time but was never back to beta levels where lag was nearly absent. Not sure what they did. And ... yessss ... I know, many do not have any lag, but MANY still do. And I do not care, my computer is not problem. 2) that impossible button mashing decision to have only 1 toolbar. For this sole reason left TSW and happend to WS also. And until this is removed I'm not planning at all to return even if they fix lag issue. And I'm sorry, because loved game, cartoony look, humour, ...
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First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999