I wouldn't mind the labour point system so much if I didn't have to use labour points to find out what my quest rewards are and just about anything else I do in game. I understand needing them for gathering and crafting and such, but needing them to actually open up dropped coin purses from a mob I killed, or identify a sword I got as a quest reward? Ridiculous.
If I like the game enough to play I don't have a problem subbing to it. I think the whole F2P angle is just a marketing gimmick with a lot of these games, they really want you to sub once you try the game if you like it and since I realize games need to make money to survive I'm happy with that. The only question I really have is if someone can buy things in cash shop that give an advantage over someone just paying a sub. That's a big no-no for me and I'm still unsure if Archeage is like that. Can someone who knows confirm or deny?
The fact that they take a long time to build, are used for SO much and they designed the game to pretty much get you to spend money to get more back constantly is just a big negative in my book.
Every piece of gear needs to be identified, every bag with some silver uses it, every time you do anything thats pretty much not hitting things uses it, far faster than you get it back. I can see this getting worse later on in the game when you want to do a lot of farm work or gathering at high levels. I get they need to make money and the games decent so it sucks to see they are doing something that is pretty well built into the system to make money.
I still find it funny games feel like they need to do this when there are games out there that make so much and restrict so little, a prefect example coming from the MOBA genre with game like LOL and DOTA2 which at most sells skins and they seem to be raking in the cash. If your game is good you would not need to have crap like this, simple things like skins, character changes, maybe bag slots or very minor things like those would sell reguardless.
Now to hope and pray EQN is good and does not do this kind of crap (though my faith in that game keeps dwindling)
i was invited to cb 3, and cb 4. uninstalled game after 3, didnt return for 4, and this is why.
I'm in the B4 as we speak and tabbed out so I can regen LP....regen LP....I HATE this system. It didn't work in FFVIX ver. 1 and it won't work here. If I sub (and I plan to) the last thing I need is a damn limiter ticking away with every damn thing that I do. Open a purse...LP, finish a quest...LP, craft a new bow....LP, strike a node....LP, pick a plant...LP...but wait. Fight in combat, go ahead a mindlessly grind away for hours, hell days even. Just knowing I have that little timer ticking away with everything that makes the sandbox features a limited function pains me.
Thanks a lot Trion, you just effectively published the first mmorpg that gimps sandbox features and turns it into a mobile app.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC I don't know anything about the game because it never caught my attention or interest, but it sounds like you guys just want instant gratification instead of having to work for something. That is exactly the problem with this genre these days.
If by "instant gratification" you mean, "the ability to play a game how you want it, when you have the time", then I'd say that's exactly what they want. This labor system is a worse rendition of FFXIV 1.0's Fatigue system whereby it restricts people from doing what they believe is fun. This does not entail being given instant, elite gear by any means. For instance, once the Fatigue system was lifted (as it was the worst idea in the history of MMOs until Labor points), it still took roughly three months of hardcore craft grinding to master a single craft profession -- and that's if you could get past the massive latency and reaction time (taking upwards of 15 seconds just to sit down, 5-10 seconds each input command, multiple input commands per craft, and no way to gain experience other than the pure grind).
I was okay with working to max out every craft back then -- a feat that rivaled my days back in Ultima Online when I spent upwards of 9 months to become a Grand Master Blacksmith through nightly all-night sessions of mining and hours and hours of blacksmithing to use the fruits of that hard work. If I was blocked by some stupid system that said, no, you spent all your points and you can't mine or craft right now... Well, then that's just a facebook trap and not a game I would want to play. No consumer in their right mind would support that. I'm even apprehensive about weekly lockouts in raid-based MMOs. I'd prefer them to make raids almost impossible and then allow you to do them as much as you want as opposed to just making you wait just so they can squeeze out an extra week or months of payment. Though I guess some things have to be given up or understood since making infinite, intriguing content is impossible at present for Themeparks.
I'm a person that enjoys working my ass off to achieve things. I'm a trader and crafter in most games, I learn economies and I do my utmost to become a serious "shopkeeper" of sorts. Heck, I've not even lifted my sword in FFXIV in months due to just keeping up with the demand of goods and the fantastic economy. I'd rather pay a subscription and not have to worry about restrictions if this is the case. But even subscribers have the labor point system to worry about.
The main reason FFXIV 1.0 gave for the fatigue system was so that powergamers or people who work their asses off or have the time to do such won't have advantages or won't surpass other players who only play an hour a day. But I don't care if there is enough fatigue or labor points to last you 18 hours out of 24 hours a day, a restriction to my gaming lifestyle or choice is a restriction still (not that the labor system is that lenient by any means...). They said we could do other activities while waiting for fatigue to wear off -- fight, or level with another class. But no go, it was horrid and the first thing to go once the new team took over before creating what is said to be the second most subscribed game on the market -- and after a year still showing signs of growth and adding staff.
The point is that this system is anti-consumer and, in my opinion, the only people seeking "instant gratification" are those who buy into the alpha for $150 and defend the game with it's systems and policies because they want to play the game without thinking of the ramifications of if such a system becomes popular with subscription, F2P or B2P games as a whole. So long as we get our games, we're fine with anything.
I've actually wrote a review on this game years ago back when I first got to play the CBT3 or maybe 4 (even sometime before Yogscast covered it in 2012), and it was far from glowing. Perhaps that experience is making me bias towards it now (and thus why I am only focusing on a horrible system within a game that I do not comment on being good or bad). I even think the post exists on this site from years back -- before anyone ever heard of the game. Though it may have just been a mention, or another site in general.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
The fact that they take a long time to build, are used for SO much and they designed the game to pretty much get you to spend money to get more back constantly is just a big negative in my book.
Every piece of gear needs to be identified, every bag with some silver uses it, every time you do anything thats pretty much not hitting things uses it, far faster than you get it back. I can see this getting worse later on in the game when you want to do a lot of farm work or gathering at high levels. I get they need to make money and the games decent so it sucks to see they are doing something that is pretty well built into the system to make money.
I still find it funny games feel like they need to do this when there are games out there that make so much and restrict so little, a prefect example coming from the MOBA genre with game like LOL and DOTA2 which at most sells skins and they seem to be raking in the cash. If your game is good you would not need to have crap like this, simple things like skins, character changes, maybe bag slots or very minor things like those would sell reguardless.
Now to hope and pray EQN is good and does not do this kind of crap (though my faith in that game keeps dwindling)
There used to be another term for this thing called "Labor Points" it was called Gold. But developers don't want to sell you gold or let you earn more gold then someone else based on effort. Labor points are nothing more than an in-game currency that you can surprising purchase where? In the cash shop of course. I don't see why people have a problem with it though its no different than any other F2P currency other than its used for EVERYTHING like you pointed out, and to try to take away some of the sting of needing so much of it they give ya a little everyday just for showing up.
I'm in the B4 as we speak and tabbed out so I can regen LP....regen LP....I HATE this system. It didn't work in FFVIX ver. 1 and it won't work here. If I sub (and I plan to) the last thing I need is a damn limiter ticking away with every damn thing that I do. Open a purse...LP, finish a quest...LP, craft a new bow....LP, strike a node....LP, pick a plant...LP...but wait. Fight in combat, go ahead a mindlessly grind away for hours, hell days even. Just knowing I have that little timer ticking away with everything that makes the sandbox features a limited function pains me.
Thanks a lot Trion, you just effectively published the first mmorpg that gimps sandbox features and turns it into a mobile app.
Hey there.
We heard you like Sandboxes.
So we're giving you a Sandbox, but the catch is every time you make any motion we're taking a scoop of sand out of your box. But don't worry. We'll put it all back in eventually. Just go play a different game -- have you tried facebook games yet? They're fun. We'll get you more sand in no time.
XD
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
The fact that they take a long time to build, are used for SO much and they designed the game to pretty much get you to spend money to get more back constantly is just a big negative in my book.
Every piece of gear needs to be identified, every bag with some silver uses it, every time you do anything thats pretty much not hitting things uses it, far faster than you get it back. I can see this getting worse later on in the game when you want to do a lot of farm work or gathering at high levels. I get they need to make money and the games decent so it sucks to see they are doing something that is pretty well built into the system to make money.
I still find it funny games feel like they need to do this when there are games out there that make so much and restrict so little, a prefect example coming from the MOBA genre with game like LOL and DOTA2 which at most sells skins and they seem to be raking in the cash. If your game is good you would not need to have crap like this, simple things like skins, character changes, maybe bag slots or very minor things like those would sell reguardless.
Now to hope and pray EQN is good and does not do this kind of crap (though my faith in that game keeps dwindling)
There used to be another term for this thing called "Labor Points" it was called Gold. But developers don't want to sell you gold or let you earn more gold then someone else based on effort. Labor points are nothing more than an in-game currency that you can surprising purchase where? In the cash shop of course. I don't see why people have a problem with it though its no different than any other F2P currency other than its used for EVERYTHING like you pointed out, and to try to take away some of the sting of needing so much of it they give ya a little everyday just for showing up.
This man speaks the truth. I always went broke on WoW after using my mining pick to get a piece of ore. Gold just dropped out of my bags. Picked a flower. Have to grind more gold. Crafted an item. Dang, more gold. Opened a bag. I'm freakin' broke.
Vanilla WoW was the worst. I don't know why people say otherwise.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
So we're giving you a Sandbox, but the catch is every time you make any motion we're taking a scoop of sand out of your box. But don't worry. We'll put it all back in eventually. Just go play a different game -- have you tried facebook games yet? They're fun. We'll get you more sand in no time.
XD
Doesn't subbing to the game give you more than enough labor points for anyone who's not a bot to get their stuff done? If it's true that you are still really limited once you can do once you sub I won't be playing either but I don't know why they'd shoot themselves in the foot like that?
The fact that they take a long time to build, are used for SO much and they designed the game to pretty much get you to spend money to get more back constantly is just a big negative in my book.
Every piece of gear needs to be identified, every bag with some silver uses it, every time you do anything thats pretty much not hitting things uses it, far faster than you get it back. I can see this getting worse later on in the game when you want to do a lot of farm work or gathering at high levels. I get they need to make money and the games decent so it sucks to see they are doing something that is pretty well built into the system to make money.
I still find it funny games feel like they need to do this when there are games out there that make so much and restrict so little, a prefect example coming from the MOBA genre with game like LOL and DOTA2 which at most sells skins and they seem to be raking in the cash. If your game is good you would not need to have crap like this, simple things like skins, character changes, maybe bag slots or very minor things like those would sell reguardless.
Now to hope and pray EQN is good and does not do this kind of crap (though my faith in that game keeps dwindling)
There used to be another term for this thing called "Labor Points" it was called Gold. But developers don't want to sell you gold or let you earn more gold then someone else based on effort. Labor points are nothing more than an in-game currency that you can surprising purchase where? In the cash shop of course. I don't see why people have a problem with it though its no different than any other F2P currency other than its used for EVERYTHING like you pointed out, and to try to take away some of the sting of needing so much of it they give ya a little everyday just for showing up.
Sorry but this is so far from the truth it hurts. Gold is a currency that's put in place to facilitate the economy. LP is put in place to restrict it. Or so the devs and more vested players would tell you. It's actually a system put in place to promote the patron status along with housing and to an extent, cash shop purchases. I have no problem supporting a dev that wants to make money, but what I don't support is turning a voluntary action of actively subbing to a game into a involuntary one. Let your game stand on it's own merit and stop trying to weave basic features into the price keep your game above unplayable. Especially when I'm all for subbing!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
So we're giving you a Sandbox, but the catch is every time you make any motion we're taking a scoop of sand out of your box. But don't worry. We'll put it all back in eventually. Just go play a different game -- have you tried facebook games yet? They're fun. We'll get you more sand in no time.
XD
Doesn't subbing to the game give you more than enough labor points for anyone who's not a bot to get their stuff done? If it's true that you are still really limited once you can do once you sub I won't be playing either but I don't know why they'd shoot themselves in the foot like that?
As a subscriber you get a increased labor point regeneration bonus -- I believe somewhere around the ballpark of 50% increase. In addition, you start to regain Labor Points when offline. Though you can still run out if you're favorite things are the sandbox portions of the game. Especially at the start, as you have to build up your LPs and you start with a small cap.
At least, this was the case some time ago.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
So we're giving you a Sandbox, but the catch is every time you make any motion we're taking a scoop of sand out of your box. But don't worry. We'll put it all back in eventually. Just go play a different game -- have you tried facebook games yet? They're fun. We'll get you more sand in no time.
XD
Doesn't subbing to the game give you more than enough labor points for anyone who's not a bot to get their stuff done? If it's true that you are still really limited once you can do once you sub I won't be playing either but I don't know why they'd shoot themselves in the foot like that?
As a subscriber you get a increased labor point regeneration bonus -- I believe somewhere around the ballpark of 50% increase. In addition, you start to regain Labor Points when offline. Though you can still run out if you're favorite things are the sandbox portions of the game. Especially at the start, as you have to build up your LPs and you start with a small cap.
At least, this was the case some time ago.
Its also there to promote working together.
You want platearmor go gather refine mateials and give them to your friend/guildie/random crafter in exchange for items. If random crafter he say he wants 10 bars since the item cost 8 and he wants some profit you agree and trade finished item for 10 bars.
You can ofcrouse do the rewerse and be said crafter hiring people to gather refine materials for you so you can focus on crafting.
What will be verty hard is be a one man army ( doing everything singlehanded)
+ since items dont decay and they want you to play longer then 4 days before you max everything and have the best stuff... it takes time and effort to do anything due to labor costs
edit trying to get spelling errors ftyping on a ipad
So we're giving you a Sandbox, but the catch is every time you make any motion we're taking a scoop of sand out of your box. But don't worry. We'll put it all back in eventually. Just go play a different game -- have you tried facebook games yet? They're fun. We'll get you more sand in no time.
XD
Doesn't subbing to the game give you more than enough labor points for anyone who's not a bot to get their stuff done? If it's true that you are still really limited once you can do once you sub I won't be playing either but I don't know why they'd shoot themselves in the foot like that?
As a subscriber you get a increased labor point regeneration bonus -- I believe somewhere around the ballpark of 50% increase. In addition, you start to regain Labor Points when offline. Though you can still run out if you're favorite things are the sandbox portions of the game. Especially at the start, as you have to build up your LPs and you start with a small cap.
At least, this was the case some time ago.
Its also there to promote working together.
You want platearmor go gather refine mateials and give them to your friend/guildie/random crafter in exchange for items. If random crafter he say he wants 10 bars since the item cost 8 and he wants some profit you agree and trade finished item for 10 bars.
You can ofcrouse do the rewerse and be said crafter hiring people to gather refine materials for you so you can focus on crafting.
What will be verty hard is be a one man army ( doing everything singlehanded)
+ since items dont decay and they want you to play longer then 4 days before you max everything and have the best stuff... it takes time and effort to do anything due to labor costs
edit trying to get spelling errors ftyping on a ipad
Promoting traders working together sounds great. Though there were better ways in which to do this. Though if the entire game was focused around Labor Points in general, it would be unwise to simply discard them as some (and even I) seem to be suggesting. Having restrictions in such a way makes this game not for me or many other sandbox fans. If labor points were intended for this, then they shouldn't be sold in the store (even if there's a purchase limit) and subscribers shouldn't be the only ones that can regen when offline.
Not to start a "which game is better" argument (but rather mention another game that had a fatigue system as such), FFXIV remade their game and took out the system. You still have to do a lot of work in that game to get anything done -- there are a lot of barriers and "attunement" quests that are subtlely placed everywhere. Some require group team work, some require 8 man dungeons or raid bosses, etc. Though every aspect of the game has it's own economy. Traders are their own classes, each trade complements each other and uses items from other classes, and even fighting classes can earn things that traders want (or spend Grand Company points to get crafting items). It would take close to a year or more to master everything (and weeks of not months with each patch, that revitalizes the system with new materials and crafts and other things).
It promotes trade between players in this way -- by having every aspect of the game effect the game economy and have it's own meta (even specific trades). But it also allows someone to work as hard as they want if they really do want to be a jack of all trades, if that's the way they want to play games. Even then, it would take 24/7 to get everything you possibly need for any given things by yourself. Since many facets requires multiple things from multiple classes or things to do in the game. And each of those things takes time and has it's own difficulty level. I've mastered everything, yet I still buy and trade for at least half of my stuff. I simply don't have the time to mine for 10 hours or go out and harvest and then earn stuff via combat and try to acquire more grand company points (I still haven't completed all of the story from the recent patches). It's so complex that even harvesting materials is profitable... and you can stay in one spot and harvest over and over again without moving -- it's that easy. No node searching, as all the nodes respawn incredibly fast. Yet, even with it's ease, the economy and it's complexity allow for a profitable trade system as everyone needs something and have to pick and choose how to go about getting it with the time they have.
Archeage -- with this system -- just turned itself into a Korean Grindfest and facebook game, perhaps using examples such as trading with people as an excuse for the facebook system. Out of labor points? Grind. Grind like there's no tomorrow. Or AFK online and get labor points. Or buy from our shop. Or buy from our shop and subscribe so you can get labor points when offline and save on electricity. It's most unique feature -- trying to incorporate a sandbox -- is now behind a paywall and a time wall. It is, as I said and in my opinion, just a Korean Grind game with facebook options to make money.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
So we're giving you a Sandbox, but the catch is every time you make any motion we're taking a scoop of sand out of your box. But don't worry. We'll put it all back in eventually. Just go play a different game -- have you tried facebook games yet? They're fun. We'll get you more sand in no time.
XD
Doesn't subbing to the game give you more than enough labor points for anyone who's not a bot to get their stuff done? If it's true that you are still really limited once you can do once you sub I won't be playing either but I don't know why they'd shoot themselves in the foot like that?
As a subscriber you get a increased labor point regeneration bonus -- I believe somewhere around the ballpark of 50% increase. In addition, you start to regain Labor Points when offline. Though you can still run out if you're favorite things are the sandbox portions of the game. Especially at the start, as you have to build up your LPs and you start with a small cap.
At least, this was the case some time ago.
Its also there to promote working together.
You want platearmor go gather refine mateials and give them to your friend/guildie/random crafter in exchange for items. If random crafter he say he wants 10 bars since the item cost 8 and he wants some profit you agree and trade finished item for 10 bars.
You can ofcrouse do the rewerse and be said crafter hiring people to gather refine materials for you so you can focus on crafting.
What will be verty hard is be a one man army ( doing everything singlehanded)
+ since items dont decay and they want you to play longer then 4 days before you max everything and have the best stuff... it takes time and effort to do anything due to labor costs
edit trying to get spelling errors ftyping on a ipad
Promoting traders working together sounds great. Though there were better ways in which to do this. Though if the entire game was focused around Labor Points in general, it would be unwise to simply discard them as some (and even I) seem to be suggesting. Having restrictions in such a way makes this game not for me or many other sandbox fans. If labor points were intended for this, then they shouldn't be sold in the store (even if there's a purchase limit) and subscribers shouldn't be the only ones that can regen when offline.
Not to start a "which game is better" argument (but rather mention another game that had a fatigue system as such), FFXIV remade their game and took out the system. You still have to do a lot of work in that game to get anything done -- there are a lot of barriers and "attunement" quests that are subtlely placed everywhere. Some require group team work, some require 8 man dungeons or raid bosses, etc. Though every aspect of the game has it's own economy. Traders are their own classes, each trade complements each other and uses items from other classes, and even fighting classes can earn things that traders want (or spend Grand Company points to get crafting items). It would take close to a year or more to master everything (and weeks of not months with each patch, that revitalizes the system with new materials and crafts and other things).
It promotes trade between players in this way -- by having every aspect of the game effect the game economy and have it's own meta (even specific trades). But it also allows someone to work as hard as they want if they really do want to be a jack of all trades, if that's the way they want to play games. Even then, it would take 24/7 to get everything you possibly need for any given things by yourself. Since many facets requires multiple things from multiple classes or things to do in the game. And each of those things takes time and has it's own difficulty level. I've mastered everything, yet I still buy and trade for at least half of my stuff. I simply don't have the time to mine for 10 hours or go out and harvest and then earn stuff via combat and try to acquire more grand company points (I still haven't completed all of the story from the recent patches). It's so complex that even harvesting materials is profitable... and you can stay in one spot and harvest over and over again without moving -- it's that easy. No node searching, as all the nodes respawn incredibly fast. Yet, even with it's ease, the economy and it's complexity allow for a profitable trade system as everyone needs something and have to pick and choose how to go about getting it with the time they have.
Archeage -- with this system -- just turned itself into a Korean Grindfest and facebook game, perhaps using examples such as trading with people as an excuse for the facebook system. Out of labor points? Grind. Grind like there's no tomorrow. Or AFK online and get labor points. Or buy from our shop. Or buy from our shop and subscribe so you can get labor points when offline and save on electricity. It's most unique feature -- trying to incorporate a sandbox -- is now behind a paywall and a time wall. It is, as I said and in my opinion, just a Korean Grind game with facebook options to make money.
Ofcourse its there to make money and what people who buy lp pots is doing in my mind is paying to finish the game faster... Do that limit you from completing everything you want, no it do not just will requier more time.
And what are you doing playing these kinds of games if you dont want to waste time?
One huge differance bettwen the two games tho ff14 you cant play if you dont pay aa you can still progress without paying
I think the telling thing here is you won't find an honest poster who prefers the way labor is used now to the initial system in the early stages of alpha testing before 1.2. Because it changed, and that change wasn't to the benefit of players, but rather to Trion's benefit.
Originally posted by sketocafe I think the telling thing here is you won't find an honest poster who prefers the way labor is used now to the initial system in the early stages of alpha testing before 1.2. Because it changed, and that change wasn't to the benefit of players, but rather to Trion's benefit.
I started at cb3 so have no clue how it was before. Maybe they add to change it since lp regen is100% better for patrons and 500% better for ftp then the russian version.
I have almost 200 hrs through all 4 of the CB events. I didn't play on 4 simply because I don't want to deal with the labor system. Don't get me wrong, it does have its good points, but i think the penalties for the F2P player and even for those who don't invest heavilly into Labor Pots are such that it will essentially drive players away. The world is large, the things you can do revolve around crafting and exploring on a large basis. Crafting requires RIDICULOUS amounts of Labor per piece and honestly, i don't think that is going to change. Housing requires as big an investment. You spend labor for essentially everything.
Now the fanboi's will have an argument to keep the system that involves "Get a guild, world pvp! rawr" but in the end, i think it will be you and your guild running around by yourselves killing the random dude that happens to log in for nostalgia.
With 95% of the game requiring labor to progress I can't honestly invest in something that I really believe will be a ghost town.
Perhaps you will like to play the original korean version of the game? you know in korea players are perfectly happy to play their pay2win AA and keeping it lively at the same time. It appears to me that western market is filled with people who wants everything for free and don't want to spend a dime on a game which actually brings what the players "want" on table.
1. i want a open world, no phasing, no instancing.
2. i want meaningful owpvp
3. i want player driven economy
4. i want meaningful crafting
5. i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill
6. i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.
7. i want all of those above for free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.
Most people are more than content to pay a sub. Labor Points are still a MAJOR issue for some even if subbed. It is a game breaker for many, and would have been for me if not for AA being a PvP game. I simply cant support a game that limits the amount of fun I can have on days where I want to craft/gather.
Ofcourse its there to make money and what people who buy lp pots is doing in my mind is paying to finish the game faster... Do that limit you from completing everything you want, no it do not just will requier more time.
And what are you doing playing these kinds of games if you dont want to waste time?
One huge differance bettwen the two games tho ff14 you cant play if you dont pay aa you can still progress without paying
Therein you're missing the entire point. What is different from the Fatigue system in FFXIV 1.0 that was called one of the worst ideas in MMO gaming history? Are you truly okay with a game limiting how much time you get to do something you want to do? When did a MMO become our parents and say when we can and can't play something? Why be lazy and make a Labor Point system to promote something (even though there are many more factors than just this, but for the sake of argument we'll just make this the main point as a whole) when work could be done to make the system complex, meaningful and not restricting to come at the same conclusion. Again, you can do anything you want in a Facebook game if you have patience and wait days (and purchase labor points or gems to be able to do it). That's exactly what's being discussed here. It's a facebook game at it's core, and you actually just admitted that. Most Facebook games don't have subscriptions either. Go figure. That's the problem people are having with it.
Though I guess F2P truly does mean rip as many people off as you can if the reason only P2P games won't have such restricting systems that copy facebook game fundamentals. It's free, so we'll tolerate it. And we'll be darn thankful for it! I don't even know why they have subscriptions in this game if said people can go with a real subscription game, then. Wait, I do. More money from people who believe this practice is acceptable and who will defend it (to reiterate my previous posts, at this point I'm thinking the game would be better as P2P without LP and constructed so that it wasn't lazy with artificial obstructions to make it so you don't do everything in "four days").
Even Star wars is starting to become a good game. They began too restrictive with their F2P model, but seem to be picking up a lot of steam with their changes and updates.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Ofcourse its there to make money and what people who buy lp pots is doing in my mind is paying to finish the game faster... Do that limit you from completing everything you want, no it do not just will requier more time.
And what are you doing playing these kinds of games if you dont want to waste time?
One huge differance bettwen the two games tho ff14 you cant play if you dont pay aa you can still progress without paying
Therein you're missing the entire point. What is different from the Fatigue system in FFXIV 1.0 that was called one of the worst ideas in MMO gaming history? Are you truly okay with a game limiting how much time you get to do something you want to do? When did a MMO become our parents and say when we can and can't play something? Why be lazy and make a Labor Point system to promote something (even though there are many more factors than just this, but for the sake of argument we'll just make this the main point as a whole) when work could be done to make the system complex, meaningful and not restricting to come at the same conclusion. Again, you can do anything you want in a Facebook game if you have patience and wait days (and purchase labor points or gems to be able to do it). That's exactly what's being discussed here. It's a facebook game at it's core, and you actually just admitted that. Most Facebook games don't have subscriptions either. Go figure. That's the problem people are having with it.
Though I guess F2P truly does mean rip as many people off as you can if the reason only P2P games won't have such restricting systems that copy facebook game fundamentals. It's free, so we'll tolerate it. And we'll be darn thankful for it! I don't even know why they have subscriptions in this game if said people can go with a real subscription game, then. Wait, I do. More money from people who believe this practice is acceptable and who will defend it.
Even Star wars is starting to become a good game. They began too restrictive with their F2P model, but seem to be picking up a lot of steam with their changes and updates.
Havent actualy played swtor since it going ftp, it was abit to limiting i couldent do all everyone else did with more time instead was hard capped on nr of crafting prof nr of wz each week and same with dungeons my20 mil credits being frozen due to coin cap.
Here i got no coin cap i can craft up as many crafts as a patron given time and havent seen a cap on nr of dungeons i can do each week.
Im perfectly fine with it limiting the time i harvest or craft becouse there is much more to it, socialise with guildies run trade pack cross continents run dungeons and help lowbies or get help from highbies, search for peoples open farms on enemy continent.
all this take time and that is whats needed to regain lp.
Edit.
Sure i would rather have item decay instead of lp system but then people would complain about that instead.
Originally posted by flizzer The Labor system is giving me pause also I cant deny; however, there so many amazing features in this game I will have to give it a try once it launches. Are labor pts an issue even with patron status or sub? There will be labor pots in the cash shop. We will still have to be buying these pots with patron status? I think at that point I would be turned off to the game. Sub fine, but if even more is required from me as the player then I would dismiss the game at that point.
I played the Alpha fairly casually ( 3-4 hours per day) over this past weekend. I never even came close to dropping below 3500 LP's and for most of the time I was above 4k. The offline regen suits me fine. If you play a lot or are a hardcore crafter, you might run into issues but I will leave that for somebody else with more hardcore experience to answer.
I also saw Trion post that XL was considering removing the need for LP to identify quest rewards, which should help quite a bit for F2P peeps.
As it is, the F2P peeps should just ignore this title. What you PAY INTO IT, YOU GET OUT, not what you play into it. This one is all about P2W. Then with the F2P people not being able to own land or farm (on your own land - you can in a communal farm) - it is ridiculous.
Yea it would be a really great game in your world ....patrons would pay 15$ a month and get 2 characters and no land and F2P players can run 10 accounts and have 20 plots of land ,,,,YUP sure sounds great !!! well thought out on your behalf . Heck wouldn't that really be a great system for new patrons they can play for 15 a month and if they have a little extra cash perhaps they can buy a few LP pots for their F2P friends because really they won't need anything due to the freeloaders owning all the land . Perhaps we have some different views about the meaning of P2P and P2W but it's become crystal clear the only thing 100% ridiculous is the spew of bullshit and feelings of entitlement some F2P advocates spread across the forums
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC I don't know anything about the game because it never caught my attention or interest, but it sounds like you guys just want instant gratification instead of having to work for something. That is exactly the problem with this genre these days.
Errr...I have no problem working towards a goal I place, except for this labor system really hampers my game style...like it has been said, it is used for basically everything....
Ofcourse its there to make money and what people who buy lp pots is doing in my mind is paying to finish the game faster... Do that limit you from completing everything you want, no it do not just will requier more time.
And what are you doing playing these kinds of games if you dont want to waste time?
One huge differance bettwen the two games tho ff14 you cant play if you dont pay aa you can still progress without paying
Therein you're missing the entire point. What is different from the Fatigue system in FFXIV 1.0 that was called one of the worst ideas in MMO gaming history? Are you truly okay with a game limiting how much time you get to do something you want to do? When did a MMO become our parents and say when we can and can't play something? Why be lazy and make a Labor Point system to promote something (even though there are many more factors than just this, but for the sake of argument we'll just make this the main point as a whole) when work could be done to make the system complex, meaningful and not restricting to come at the same conclusion. Again, you can do anything you want in a Facebook game if you have patience and wait days (and purchase labor points or gems to be able to do it). That's exactly what's being discussed here. It's a facebook game at it's core, and you actually just admitted that. Most Facebook games don't have subscriptions either. Go figure. That's the problem people are having with it.
Though I guess F2P truly does mean rip as many people off as you can if the reason only P2P games won't have such restricting systems that copy facebook game fundamentals. It's free, so we'll tolerate it. And we'll be darn thankful for it! I don't even know why they have subscriptions in this game if said people can go with a real subscription game, then. Wait, I do. More money from people who believe this practice is acceptable and who will defend it.
Even Star wars is starting to become a good game. They began too restrictive with their F2P model, but seem to be picking up a lot of steam with their changes and updates.
Havent actualy played swtor since it going ftp, it was abit to limiting i couldent do all everyone else did with more time instead was hard capped on nr of crafting prof nr of wz each week and same with dungeons my20 mil credits being frozen due to coin cap.
Here i got no coin cap i can craft up as many crafts as a patron given time and havent seen a cap on nr of dungeons i can do each week.
Im perfectly fine with it limiting the time i harvest or craft becouse there is much more to it, socialise with guildies run trade pack cross continents run dungeons and help lowbies or get help from highbies, search for peoples open farms on enemy continent.
all this take time and that is whats needed to regain lp.
Edit.
Sure i would rather have item decay instead of lp system but then people would complain about that instead.
If you're fine with it, that's cool.
I think it boils down to if you don't mind it's myriad of restricting systems (even as a subscriber), then that's your decision and nobody should chastise you for it. Personally, I've played a game with a fatigue system before. It dropped down to 5,000 subscribers, and couldn't get give the game away when it went F2P for a year.
Though I'd like to see someone to flat out say "Yeah, it's a facebook monetization system, yeah limitations on how often I can do what I want to do suck, yeah it could probably be better and will probably be better with patches... But darn it all. I like this game and I will play it anyway." Though in truth, that's pretty much what you said, and I respect your decision in that regard. You want a change, but you have friends / guilds that will play and you will endure it all together. Games have flaws after all, and things change in time and with patches.
I think we shouldn't have to try and rationalize things when there's a problem. We should just accept it's faults and just have fun with it; acknowledge it's faults when people mention it, but at the same time say you like playing it anyway. Though I'll say again, the major fault a lot of people have here is that it's using a blantant restriction to cover the fact that people would be done with it in a couple days if it wasn't there. No true depth, if that's the case. And depth is what a sandbox usually thrives on. Though I've seen many who say this game is not a sandbox -- and I'm inclined to agree with them as a sandbox is all about having almost no limitations or restrictions. Naturally coding has it's limits and can't mimic a real sandbox environment.
I don't know, perhaps I'm being to hard on a game that is F2P by nature. Depth might be too risky and it is, after all, a Korean game; they're known for grinding mobs. That just doesn't translate into adequate pass time with the western audience. Semi sandbox for a limited time, grind until you're able to play in your sandbox again. What of those that want 95% sandbox and 5% fighting instead of the other way around? Well, the simple answer to that is that this game isn't for them, and once the game is launched, whining about that is just causing drama. Hopefully things change before the game is released though, as people can only provide their feedback and hope.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Dungeon lockouts, Raid Lockouts, Dailies, Monthlies, it's all the same. Heck, even currency in games is similar to Labor as in if you don't have enough of it, there are certain things you can't do or can't acquire.
The only difference between AA and those other games is that it gives you the option to buy a labor pot to speed up the lockout time. Granted, that is an advantage and if that's your beef, that's one I can respect.
But let's not pretend that the Labor system is anymore intrusive than any other MMO, if anything it's more forgiving because it does give you the option to buy around it.
Originally posted by botrytis Then they shouldn't call the game a FREE TO PLAY Game. Call it as it is - a sub game CS cash grab.
Can you play the game without paying? Yes you can. It is,therefore, a free to play game. Are those that choose to play for free saddled with restrictions? Yes they are. That does not negate the fact that it is free to play. It is free to play ... with restrictions! If you don't want to be inconvenienced with restrictions then you must subscribe. Not that difficult really.
You'd think it wasn't all that complicated but years later and people still seem to think " If I find anything in the game I want and it cost money the game isn't free!!!" a valid argument against it.
The best free to play systems are not the games that give everything for free. It's the games that show you it has things worth paying for.
No, you can't play for free. You can login to the servers, but you can't play. I ran out of labor points. All I could do was farm mobs and open some quest rewards. I didn't do the quests necessarily because they were my first choice, but because that was the only other activity I could participate in other than just killing mobs. When I logged off I think I had like 60LP.
So, you think it wouldn't be that complicated, but here we are, the point sailing right over both of your heads. Don't call the game F2P. It's not in all but the most banal and facile aspect. There is nothing fun about the LP implementation, regardless of your patron status. There is nothing really to play unless grinding mobs and being a gank target are now considered great game play.
And I disagree that F2P is just a showcase for the imminent subscription. That too misses the point. F2P is another revenue model that lets a player pay for the game that doesn't mean committing to a monthly rent payment. In my world a well implemented F2P model will have a few things that a player will really want to pay for that cost $20 - $60, the same as a box price and will let someone enjoy their gaming experience. It will also offer the option to pay more, much more if you can afford it, without completely throwing gameplay and balance out the window. Here are some examples of games I consider to have a great sub-free/optional payment model (F2P or B2P), in no particular order - Neverwinter, STO, RIft, Tera, GW1, GW2, EQ2, and even LotRO although they push it a bit.
This game combines the worst implementations of sub, cash shop, and energy system (labor points). It tries to monetize you at every single angle.
I am playing the game as a F2P player. I may not when the game is released, but during these betas I've been playing for free because I am apparently as cheap as the rest of you freeloaders and refuse to pay to play betas. Has it been restrictive? Yes. Have I still been able to play the game in its entirety? Absolutely. So If I am able to do it, it can be done. Period. I consider playing the game as a F2P player as playing the game in hard mode. But with proper LP management and the assistance of friends and family, of which a few happen to be Patrons, there is nothing in the game that they can do, that I can not. Just because you are not able to play for free does not mean it can't be done, because it absolutely can be done and you know this as well as I do. You just want more convenience without having to pay for said convenience and that's just not going to happen in this game as a F2P player without effort. And yes, if you don't manage your LP and play with friends, it will require an extreme amount of effort. But that is the basis of this game. Those are the rules in this game. Either abide by them and adapt, or fade away.
Perhaps you will like to play the original korean version of the game? you know in korea players are perfectly happy to play their pay2win AA and keeping it lively at the same time. It appears to me that western market is filled with people who wants everything for free and don't want to spend a dime on a game which actually brings what the players "want" on table.
1. i want a open world, no phasing, no instancing.
2. i want meaningful owpvp
3. i want player driven economy
4. i want meaningful crafting
5. i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill
6. i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.
7. i want all of those above for free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
7. If I have all of above I would be more than happy to pay a fixed monthly fee , B2P or fair F2P price
Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.
Comments
If I like the game enough to play I don't have a problem subbing to it. I think the whole F2P angle is just a marketing gimmick with a lot of these games, they really want you to sub once you try the game if you like it and since I realize games need to make money to survive I'm happy with that. The only question I really have is if someone can buy things in cash shop that give an advantage over someone just paying a sub. That's a big no-no for me and I'm still unsure if Archeage is like that. Can someone who knows confirm or deny?
i was invited to cb 3, and cb 4. uninstalled game after 3, didnt return for 4, and this is why.
I'm in the B4 as we speak and tabbed out so I can regen LP....regen LP....I HATE this system. It didn't work in FFVIX ver. 1 and it won't work here. If I sub (and I plan to) the last thing I need is a damn limiter ticking away with every damn thing that I do. Open a purse...LP, finish a quest...LP, craft a new bow....LP, strike a node....LP, pick a plant...LP...but wait. Fight in combat, go ahead a mindlessly grind away for hours, hell days even. Just knowing I have that little timer ticking away with everything that makes the sandbox features a limited function pains me.
Thanks a lot Trion, you just effectively published the first mmorpg that gimps sandbox features and turns it into a mobile app.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
If by "instant gratification" you mean, "the ability to play a game how you want it, when you have the time", then I'd say that's exactly what they want. This labor system is a worse rendition of FFXIV 1.0's Fatigue system whereby it restricts people from doing what they believe is fun. This does not entail being given instant, elite gear by any means. For instance, once the Fatigue system was lifted (as it was the worst idea in the history of MMOs until Labor points), it still took roughly three months of hardcore craft grinding to master a single craft profession -- and that's if you could get past the massive latency and reaction time (taking upwards of 15 seconds just to sit down, 5-10 seconds each input command, multiple input commands per craft, and no way to gain experience other than the pure grind).
I was okay with working to max out every craft back then -- a feat that rivaled my days back in Ultima Online when I spent upwards of 9 months to become a Grand Master Blacksmith through nightly all-night sessions of mining and hours and hours of blacksmithing to use the fruits of that hard work. If I was blocked by some stupid system that said, no, you spent all your points and you can't mine or craft right now... Well, then that's just a facebook trap and not a game I would want to play. No consumer in their right mind would support that. I'm even apprehensive about weekly lockouts in raid-based MMOs. I'd prefer them to make raids almost impossible and then allow you to do them as much as you want as opposed to just making you wait just so they can squeeze out an extra week or months of payment. Though I guess some things have to be given up or understood since making infinite, intriguing content is impossible at present for Themeparks.
I'm a person that enjoys working my ass off to achieve things. I'm a trader and crafter in most games, I learn economies and I do my utmost to become a serious "shopkeeper" of sorts. Heck, I've not even lifted my sword in FFXIV in months due to just keeping up with the demand of goods and the fantastic economy. I'd rather pay a subscription and not have to worry about restrictions if this is the case. But even subscribers have the labor point system to worry about.
The main reason FFXIV 1.0 gave for the fatigue system was so that powergamers or people who work their asses off or have the time to do such won't have advantages or won't surpass other players who only play an hour a day. But I don't care if there is enough fatigue or labor points to last you 18 hours out of 24 hours a day, a restriction to my gaming lifestyle or choice is a restriction still (not that the labor system is that lenient by any means...). They said we could do other activities while waiting for fatigue to wear off -- fight, or level with another class. But no go, it was horrid and the first thing to go once the new team took over before creating what is said to be the second most subscribed game on the market -- and after a year still showing signs of growth and adding staff.
The point is that this system is anti-consumer and, in my opinion, the only people seeking "instant gratification" are those who buy into the alpha for $150 and defend the game with it's systems and policies because they want to play the game without thinking of the ramifications of if such a system becomes popular with subscription, F2P or B2P games as a whole. So long as we get our games, we're fine with anything.
I've actually wrote a review on this game years ago back when I first got to play the CBT3 or maybe 4 (even sometime before Yogscast covered it in 2012), and it was far from glowing. Perhaps that experience is making me bias towards it now (and thus why I am only focusing on a horrible system within a game that I do not comment on being good or bad). I even think the post exists on this site from years back -- before anyone ever heard of the game. Though it may have just been a mention, or another site in general.
There used to be another term for this thing called "Labor Points" it was called Gold. But developers don't want to sell you gold or let you earn more gold then someone else based on effort. Labor points are nothing more than an in-game currency that you can surprising purchase where? In the cash shop of course. I don't see why people have a problem with it though its no different than any other F2P currency other than its used for EVERYTHING like you pointed out, and to try to take away some of the sting of needing so much of it they give ya a little everyday just for showing up.
Hey there.
We heard you like Sandboxes.
So we're giving you a Sandbox, but the catch is every time you make any motion we're taking a scoop of sand out of your box. But don't worry. We'll put it all back in eventually. Just go play a different game -- have you tried facebook games yet? They're fun. We'll get you more sand in no time.
XD
This man speaks the truth. I always went broke on WoW after using my mining pick to get a piece of ore. Gold just dropped out of my bags. Picked a flower. Have to grind more gold. Crafted an item. Dang, more gold. Opened a bag. I'm freakin' broke.
Vanilla WoW was the worst. I don't know why people say otherwise.
Doesn't subbing to the game give you more than enough labor points for anyone who's not a bot to get their stuff done? If it's true that you are still really limited once you can do once you sub I won't be playing either but I don't know why they'd shoot themselves in the foot like that?
Sorry but this is so far from the truth it hurts. Gold is a currency that's put in place to facilitate the economy. LP is put in place to restrict it. Or so the devs and more vested players would tell you. It's actually a system put in place to promote the patron status along with housing and to an extent, cash shop purchases. I have no problem supporting a dev that wants to make money, but what I don't support is turning a voluntary action of actively subbing to a game into a involuntary one. Let your game stand on it's own merit and stop trying to weave basic features into the price keep your game above unplayable. Especially when I'm all for subbing!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
As a subscriber you get a increased labor point regeneration bonus -- I believe somewhere around the ballpark of 50% increase. In addition, you start to regain Labor Points when offline. Though you can still run out if you're favorite things are the sandbox portions of the game. Especially at the start, as you have to build up your LPs and you start with a small cap.
At least, this was the case some time ago.
Its also there to promote working together.
You want platearmor go gather refine mateials and give them to your friend/guildie/random crafter in exchange for items. If random crafter he say he wants 10 bars since the item cost 8 and he wants some profit you agree and trade finished item for 10 bars.
You can ofcrouse do the rewerse and be said crafter hiring people to gather refine materials for you so you can focus on crafting.
What will be verty hard is be a one man army ( doing everything singlehanded)
+ since items dont decay and they want you to play longer then 4 days before you max everything and have the best stuff... it takes time and effort to do anything due to labor costs
edit trying to get spelling errors ftyping on a ipad
Promoting traders working together sounds great. Though there were better ways in which to do this. Though if the entire game was focused around Labor Points in general, it would be unwise to simply discard them as some (and even I) seem to be suggesting. Having restrictions in such a way makes this game not for me or many other sandbox fans. If labor points were intended for this, then they shouldn't be sold in the store (even if there's a purchase limit) and subscribers shouldn't be the only ones that can regen when offline.
Not to start a "which game is better" argument (but rather mention another game that had a fatigue system as such), FFXIV remade their game and took out the system. You still have to do a lot of work in that game to get anything done -- there are a lot of barriers and "attunement" quests that are subtlely placed everywhere. Some require group team work, some require 8 man dungeons or raid bosses, etc. Though every aspect of the game has it's own economy. Traders are their own classes, each trade complements each other and uses items from other classes, and even fighting classes can earn things that traders want (or spend Grand Company points to get crafting items). It would take close to a year or more to master everything (and weeks of not months with each patch, that revitalizes the system with new materials and crafts and other things).
It promotes trade between players in this way -- by having every aspect of the game effect the game economy and have it's own meta (even specific trades). But it also allows someone to work as hard as they want if they really do want to be a jack of all trades, if that's the way they want to play games. Even then, it would take 24/7 to get everything you possibly need for any given things by yourself. Since many facets requires multiple things from multiple classes or things to do in the game. And each of those things takes time and has it's own difficulty level. I've mastered everything, yet I still buy and trade for at least half of my stuff. I simply don't have the time to mine for 10 hours or go out and harvest and then earn stuff via combat and try to acquire more grand company points (I still haven't completed all of the story from the recent patches). It's so complex that even harvesting materials is profitable... and you can stay in one spot and harvest over and over again without moving -- it's that easy. No node searching, as all the nodes respawn incredibly fast. Yet, even with it's ease, the economy and it's complexity allow for a profitable trade system as everyone needs something and have to pick and choose how to go about getting it with the time they have.
Archeage -- with this system -- just turned itself into a Korean Grindfest and facebook game, perhaps using examples such as trading with people as an excuse for the facebook system. Out of labor points? Grind. Grind like there's no tomorrow. Or AFK online and get labor points. Or buy from our shop. Or buy from our shop and subscribe so you can get labor points when offline and save on electricity. It's most unique feature -- trying to incorporate a sandbox -- is now behind a paywall and a time wall. It is, as I said and in my opinion, just a Korean Grind game with facebook options to make money.
Ofcourse its there to make money and what people who buy lp pots is doing in my mind is paying to finish the game faster... Do that limit you from completing everything you want, no it do not just will requier more time.
And what are you doing playing these kinds of games if you dont want to waste time?
One huge differance bettwen the two games tho ff14 you cant play if you dont pay aa you can still progress without paying
I started at cb3 so have no clue how it was before. Maybe they add to change it since lp regen is100% better for patrons and 500% better for ftp then the russian version.
Please enlighten us how it was before.
Most people are more than content to pay a sub. Labor Points are still a MAJOR issue for some even if subbed. It is a game breaker for many, and would have been for me if not for AA being a PvP game. I simply cant support a game that limits the amount of fun I can have on days where I want to craft/gather.
Therein you're missing the entire point. What is different from the Fatigue system in FFXIV 1.0 that was called one of the worst ideas in MMO gaming history? Are you truly okay with a game limiting how much time you get to do something you want to do? When did a MMO become our parents and say when we can and can't play something? Why be lazy and make a Labor Point system to promote something (even though there are many more factors than just this, but for the sake of argument we'll just make this the main point as a whole) when work could be done to make the system complex, meaningful and not restricting to come at the same conclusion. Again, you can do anything you want in a Facebook game if you have patience and wait days (and purchase labor points or gems to be able to do it). That's exactly what's being discussed here. It's a facebook game at it's core, and you actually just admitted that. Most Facebook games don't have subscriptions either. Go figure. That's the problem people are having with it.
Though I guess F2P truly does mean rip as many people off as you can if the reason only P2P games won't have such restricting systems that copy facebook game fundamentals. It's free, so we'll tolerate it. And we'll be darn thankful for it! I don't even know why they have subscriptions in this game if said people can go with a real subscription game, then. Wait, I do. More money from people who believe this practice is acceptable and who will defend it (to reiterate my previous posts, at this point I'm thinking the game would be better as P2P without LP and constructed so that it wasn't lazy with artificial obstructions to make it so you don't do everything in "four days").
Even Star wars is starting to become a good game. They began too restrictive with their F2P model, but seem to be picking up a lot of steam with their changes and updates.
Havent actualy played swtor since it going ftp, it was abit to limiting i couldent do all everyone else did with more time instead was hard capped on nr of crafting prof nr of wz each week and same with dungeons my20 mil credits being frozen due to coin cap.
Here i got no coin cap i can craft up as many crafts as a patron given time and havent seen a cap on nr of dungeons i can do each week.
Im perfectly fine with it limiting the time i harvest or craft becouse there is much more to it, socialise with guildies run trade pack cross continents run dungeons and help lowbies or get help from highbies, search for peoples open farms on enemy continent.
all this take time and that is whats needed to regain lp.
Edit.
Sure i would rather have item decay instead of lp system but then people would complain about that instead.
Yea it would be a really great game in your world ....patrons would pay 15$ a month and get 2 characters and no land and F2P players can run 10 accounts and have 20 plots of land ,,,,YUP sure sounds great !!! well thought out on your behalf . Heck wouldn't that really be a great system for new patrons they can play for 15 a month and if they have a little extra cash perhaps they can buy a few LP pots for their F2P friends because really they won't need anything due to the freeloaders owning all the land . Perhaps we have some different views about the meaning of P2P and P2W but it's become crystal clear the only thing 100% ridiculous is the spew of bullshit and feelings of entitlement some F2P advocates spread across the forums
Errr...I have no problem working towards a goal I place, except for this labor system really hampers my game style...like it has been said, it is used for basically everything....
If you're fine with it, that's cool.
I think it boils down to if you don't mind it's myriad of restricting systems (even as a subscriber), then that's your decision and nobody should chastise you for it. Personally, I've played a game with a fatigue system before. It dropped down to 5,000 subscribers, and couldn't get give the game away when it went F2P for a year.
Though I'd like to see someone to flat out say "Yeah, it's a facebook monetization system, yeah limitations on how often I can do what I want to do suck, yeah it could probably be better and will probably be better with patches... But darn it all. I like this game and I will play it anyway." Though in truth, that's pretty much what you said, and I respect your decision in that regard. You want a change, but you have friends / guilds that will play and you will endure it all together. Games have flaws after all, and things change in time and with patches.
I think we shouldn't have to try and rationalize things when there's a problem. We should just accept it's faults and just have fun with it; acknowledge it's faults when people mention it, but at the same time say you like playing it anyway. Though I'll say again, the major fault a lot of people have here is that it's using a blantant restriction to cover the fact that people would be done with it in a couple days if it wasn't there. No true depth, if that's the case. And depth is what a sandbox usually thrives on. Though I've seen many who say this game is not a sandbox -- and I'm inclined to agree with them as a sandbox is all about having almost no limitations or restrictions. Naturally coding has it's limits and can't mimic a real sandbox environment.
I don't know, perhaps I'm being to hard on a game that is F2P by nature. Depth might be too risky and it is, after all, a Korean game; they're known for grinding mobs. That just doesn't translate into adequate pass time with the western audience. Semi sandbox for a limited time, grind until you're able to play in your sandbox again. What of those that want 95% sandbox and 5% fighting instead of the other way around? Well, the simple answer to that is that this game isn't for them, and once the game is launched, whining about that is just causing drama. Hopefully things change before the game is released though, as people can only provide their feedback and hope.
Every MMO has some sort of modified Labor system.
Dungeon lockouts, Raid Lockouts, Dailies, Monthlies, it's all the same. Heck, even currency in games is similar to Labor as in if you don't have enough of it, there are certain things you can't do or can't acquire.
The only difference between AA and those other games is that it gives you the option to buy a labor pot to speed up the lockout time. Granted, that is an advantage and if that's your beef, that's one I can respect.
But let's not pretend that the Labor system is anymore intrusive than any other MMO, if anything it's more forgiving because it does give you the option to buy around it.
I am playing the game as a F2P player. I may not when the game is released, but during these betas I've been playing for free because I am apparently as cheap as the rest of you freeloaders and refuse to pay to play betas. Has it been restrictive? Yes. Have I still been able to play the game in its entirety? Absolutely. So If I am able to do it, it can be done. Period. I consider playing the game as a F2P player as playing the game in hard mode. But with proper LP management and the assistance of friends and family, of which a few happen to be Patrons, there is nothing in the game that they can do, that I can not. Just because you are not able to play for free does not mean it can't be done, because it absolutely can be done and you know this as well as I do. You just want more convenience without having to pay for said convenience and that's just not going to happen in this game as a F2P player without effort. And yes, if you don't manage your LP and play with friends, it will require an extreme amount of effort. But that is the basis of this game. Those are the rules in this game. Either abide by them and adapt, or fade away.
Your choice to make.
There I fixed it for you