Isn't it challenging enough? I see the message was last edited in 2008. That was arguably a good period of WoW. So how come?
Okay theres hard encounters in WoW too but hardest content like %10 of total game. %90 Rest of the game im rolling my face on keyboard to accomplish. Thats why..
WoW doesn't require any real skill to play , they have simplified the game over the years way too much, It doesn't matter if you are 5 years old or 95 years old you can play through WoW w/o any problems. Between WoW translating their game and making it sooo incredibly easy that anyone can play through the game accounts for the size of their player base.
They have simplified stats and given you gear scroes and pokemon and all sorts of stuff to simplify things. When the level cap was 60 leveling to 60 was pretty fun but the end game was terrible. But things have gotten so incredibly Gerber since then.
Just because 99% (totally made up number like yours was) of the population doesn't bother doing heroic content because they already done it on normal or flex or LFR, doesn't mean they couldn't do heroic. And if anyone is still doing heroics now, they are doing nerfed heroics, just like nerfed normal, et al. You have to complete the content within a couple of months of release max before the nerf bat takes over... or the now popular technique... buffing of players so that they are stronger than they would be if they were outside of the instance.
Lowest difficulty due to accessibility.... basically anyone can clear a raid in WoW. Anyone. It was designed that way so that everyone could see all the content and lore. In other words, most people don't bother with heroics because they've already seen the content and lore. Been there, done that... moving on.
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
Well, that depends.
By Blizzard's own numbers, only 1.3% of the player base has even attempted a raid and only 0.9% has attempted a herioc raid. If all 0.9% of players that have attempted a herioc raid have been able to complete it, I would say that constitutes 'easy'.
I have no clue where you are getting your numbers, but over 75% of all endgame charecter's had completed at least some bosses of the last few raid tiers on at least 1 of the raid difficulties, let alone just "attempted them". Heroic on the other hand is a different story, heorics are consistantly in the very low single digits.
WoW's heoric raids are the hardest raid encounters in the industry, yes that includes Wildstar.
Have you tried all other highest level raid encounters in all other games then because if you have you must have 48 hours in day an 28 days in a week . Because no one I know of has time enough to play that many games to make such a sweeping comment .
Had you said WoWs heroic raids are the hardest raid encounters that you have encountered in the games you played then it would be easier to believe your statement .
I personally have not, but I tend to believe world first guilds who have, and write extensive blogs on each tier comparing them to other previous tiers of the game in question, and other games they have played as well. And before you respond with another incredable claim that in order to have cleared the hardest raids in EQ1,2, AOC, FFIX, Rift, SWTOR, Wildstar, WoW, etc you would have had to raid 48 hours a day, 28 days a week.....remember that all raid tiers in all games are not released at the same time....these are games that have been around for years, tiers come and go at different times, different years. Most of the top 5 Wildstar guilds also competed in the latest WoW heroic tier (which released in Sept 2013), thats how time works..... The mere fact that I have to point that out to you, shows your complete disregard for logic and simply wanted to attack my post.
Just because 99% (totally made up number like yours was) of the population doesn't bother doing heroic content because they already done it on normal or flex or LFR, doesn't mean they couldn't do heroic. And if anyone is still doing heroics now, they are doing nerfed heroics, just like nerfed normal, et al. You have to complete the content within a couple of months of release max before the nerf bat takes over... or the now popular technique... buffing of players so that they are stronger than they would be if they were outside of the instance.
Lowest difficulty due to accessibility.... basically anyone can clear a raid in WoW. Anyone. It was designed that way so that everyone could see all the content and lore. In other words, most people don't bother with heroics because they've already seen the content and lore. Been there, done that... moving on.
Actually, mine wasn't made up, there was a post on MMO champion awhile back with a graph showing heroic bosses cleared. I couldn't find the post with a quick search, but it's there.
Also, if heroic raiding was all they offered, they'd have a dead game on their hands, something like wildstar.
WoW is pretty easy to play. You can flub your way through a lot of the game and stumble into a lot of stuff without dying. There is the occasional fight where you can't win, or you win just as you die, but there aren't many of them. That does not mean WoW has no challenge, or that there isn't a difference between killing a mob in 3 seconds versus 10 seconds, but WoW is very forgiving.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Isn't it challenging enough? I see the message was last edited in 2008. That was arguably a good period of WoW. So how come?
Most likely because of the leveling experience and how easy it is to get into the game.
I doubt it takes into account raids and other "advanced/hardcore" stuff.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
Of course they haven't it is the hardest fucking raid content ever....
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
I have played wow for a couple of years and dudes the game is easy, it's a casual players dream. And sure they have heroic settings to make i tough and yes they aren't easy but the game overall is easy. My 4 year old got her char to lvl 80 and I had to help her login since she can't write or read.
Nobody is arguing that wow doesn't have difficult settings on there raids but thats all, the rest is simple. I don't see why this is a bad thing 6.8 millions seems to love it.
But dudes arguing that wow is a difficult game is the same as saying that GW2 is hardcore game because they have the three headed jungle wurm which is very very tough. GW2 is also a casual players dream.
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
Of course they haven't it is the hardest fucking raid content ever....
WoW is easy up to this point, but most people haven't the time nor will to put that much effort into getting the best gear. You can pretty much be terrible at the game up to LFR.
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
Well, that depends.
By Blizzard's own numbers, only 1.3% of the player base has even attempted a raid and only 0.9% has attempted a herioc raid. If all 0.9% of players that have attempted a herioc raid have been able to complete it, I would say that constitutes 'easy'.
I have no clue where you are getting your numbers, but over 75% of all endgame charecter's had completed at least some bosses of the last few raid tiers on at least 1 of the raid difficulties, let alone just "attempted them". Heroic on the other hand is a different story, heorics are consistantly in the very low single digits.
WoW's heoric raids are the hardest raid encounters in the industry, yes that includes Wildstar.
Have you tried all other highest level raid encounters in all other games then because if you have you must have 48 hours in day an 28 days in a week . Because no one I know of has time enough to play that many games to make such a sweeping comment .
Had you said WoWs heroic raids are the hardest raid encounters that you have encountered in the games you played then it would be easier to believe your statement .
I personally have not, but I tend to believe world first guilds who have, and write extensive blogs on each tier comparing them to other previous tiers of the game in question, and other games they have played as well. And before you respond with another incredable claim that in order to have cleared the hardest raids in EQ1,2, AOC, FFIX, Rift, SWTOR, Wildstar, WoW, etc you would have had to raid 48 hours a day, 28 days a week.....remember that all raid tiers in all games are not released at the same time....these are games that have been around for years, tiers come and go at different times, different years. Most of the top 5 Wildstar guilds also competed in the latest WoW heroic tier (which released in Sept 2013), thats how time works..... The mere fact that I have to point that out to you, shows your complete disregard for logic and simply wanted to attack my post.
Even so look at the list of mmos in these forums and your will see there is close to a hundred mmos out there . Plenty with raiding content . It would be impossible to do them all . I know people that are in Rift that raid all the time that still havn't cleared all the raid content in that game . I play TSW the dungeons there are harder than many I've encountered elsewhere but I would not be footlhardy enough to describe it as the hardest around .
The people I know in Rift that raid also declare that Rifts raids are harder than WoWs but its what you expect of people that play and enjoy a game . Only a very gullible person would take such a persons word for it .
Essentially what you have admitted is that you don't personally know that WoW raiding content is the hardest so your earlier comment was not a statement of fact and was nothing more than a personal opinion based on your own experiences in WoW and the reinforcement of the opinions of a few other fans of WoW like yourself .
As such as a statement it is flawed and not to be taken seriously by anyone with a bit of common sense .
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
Of course they haven't it is the hardest fucking raid content ever....
WoW is easy up to this point, but most people haven't the time nor will to put that much effort into getting the best gear. You can pretty much be terrible at the game up to LFR.
By the looks of the graph around 7% of the player base cleared the first boss in heroic SoO, and about 0.25% cleared the last boss.
If we would assume all players that attempted the heroic raid cleared the first boss, then about 3.5% of players that even attempted heroic cleared the last boss.
In the old days you fought and fought in wow with the tantalising prospect of entering the final encounter. Now it's meh I've seen that boss on normal, flex already. For those fighting for prestige, it's feckin annoying because bang next patch the content is useless.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom In the old days you fought and fought in wow with the tantalising prospect of entering the final encounter. Now it's meh I've seen that boss on normal, flex already. For those fighting for prestige, it's feckin annoying because bang next patch the content is useless.
I believe the mode for just wanting to see the content, is the LFR tourist mode. The point is, the challenging modes are there for the people that want it.
If one argues that players don't want to play the harder difficulties because they've already seen the content on easier modes, how can the game be blamed for being too easy? That's the players fault for choosing to play easy mode.
I'm kind of surprised Blizzard still even bothers with heroic content when it's plain that so many players don't even want to bother with it.
Depends which part of the game you are referring to....if it's leveling to max level then yes it's ridiculously easy. Almost anything you do in the game awards xp and the quests are so easy that you don't even have to know all of your class' skills to complete them. So in theory it's possible to reach max level "end game" and be a complete tool when it comes to knowing anything about the game. Even end game is easy until you get to Heroic raiding.
Isn't it challenging enough? I see the message was last edited in 2008. That was arguably a good period of WoW. So how come?
The majority of the people who downvote WoW difficulty wise never set foot in a raid, and even less an heroic raid.
It's just ignorance and hathred of what is famous, and also feeling "superior" for disliking what others enjoy. Some people just need that, pity them and ignore them.
Well I have step foot in a raid and heroic raids... lots of them for many years... and I can say they are not the same now... not saying they can't be difficult (on release, nerf bat timeframe is a different story), saying that they've become pointless because they have several versions of the same exact raid. I cleared such and such... so did I, I pugged it in LFR was done in an hour, and you? The sense of accomplishment is long gone. If everyone could climb Mt Everest, it wouldn't be such a great feat. If no one can ever fail, what is the point of victory.
It's not an elitist attitude to what a challenge that isn't superfluous. WoW is all about the superfluous. Which is fine. Many gamers only want that. It is also why they say it is an easy game... because it is.
Lol, again one of those threads. N00bs never step into any normal/heroic raid, yet they are pro gamers with 1000000 watched youtube videos "Omg, this is so easy, he has 10000000000 addons". 20+ MMORPG, still didn't find any game that beats Wow in end-game. At least try fucking end-game, then bitch about how it's very easy.
Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level. I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
What we have today is a huge waste of time. I wish Blizzard would bring back the difficulty they had back in TCB and let those that don't like to level start at the last expansion. My wife and I use to love leveling back then doing pve and pvp. Now the pve is pointless and the pvp was ruined with account gear.
Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level. I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
Leveling in wow was never challenging. More time consuming yes, but not challenging.
Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level. I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
Leveling in wow was never challenging. More time consuming yes, but not challenging.
You would be wrong go play on a private server and come back here and post. Wow back in Vanilla and TBC make games today look like hello kitty.
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
or most of those players are the "hardcore" arena nerds that could care less about content or raiding and clearly think they are in some kind of "pro" pvp league?
Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level.
Rose colored memories, maybe? Or maybe you were bad at the game? Because I don't remember leveling being "challenging", just interesting. And that didn't change much, it actually was improved with new mechanics.
I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
I would say people who PRETEND wanting a challenge don't even look for it. Because when they realize it will also require some effort, they flee back to the easy mode, and then are like "zomg that game is so easy" on forums.
I love the rose colored glasses argument. Go play on a private server and see how rose colored they are. Back in Vanilla and TBC wow had the perfect balance between to easy and to hard for leveling. Today we have a 5 year old leveling with ease.
Comments
Okay theres hard encounters in WoW too but hardest content like %10 of total game. %90 Rest of the game im rolling my face on keyboard to accomplish. Thats why..
WoW doesn't require any real skill to play , they have simplified the game over the years way too much, It doesn't matter if you are 5 years old or 95 years old you can play through WoW w/o any problems. Between WoW translating their game and making it sooo incredibly easy that anyone can play through the game accounts for the size of their player base.
They have simplified stats and given you gear scroes and pokemon and all sorts of stuff to simplify things. When the level cap was 60 leveling to 60 was pretty fun but the end game was terrible. But things have gotten so incredibly Gerber since then.Just because 99% (totally made up number like yours was) of the population doesn't bother doing heroic content because they already done it on normal or flex or LFR, doesn't mean they couldn't do heroic. And if anyone is still doing heroics now, they are doing nerfed heroics, just like nerfed normal, et al. You have to complete the content within a couple of months of release max before the nerf bat takes over... or the now popular technique... buffing of players so that they are stronger than they would be if they were outside of the instance.
Lowest difficulty due to accessibility.... basically anyone can clear a raid in WoW. Anyone. It was designed that way so that everyone could see all the content and lore. In other words, most people don't bother with heroics because they've already seen the content and lore. Been there, done that... moving on.
I personally have not, but I tend to believe world first guilds who have, and write extensive blogs on each tier comparing them to other previous tiers of the game in question, and other games they have played as well. And before you respond with another incredable claim that in order to have cleared the hardest raids in EQ1,2, AOC, FFIX, Rift, SWTOR, Wildstar, WoW, etc you would have had to raid 48 hours a day, 28 days a week.....remember that all raid tiers in all games are not released at the same time....these are games that have been around for years, tiers come and go at different times, different years. Most of the top 5 Wildstar guilds also competed in the latest WoW heroic tier (which released in Sept 2013), thats how time works..... The mere fact that I have to point that out to you, shows your complete disregard for logic and simply wanted to attack my post.
Actually, mine wasn't made up, there was a post on MMO champion awhile back with a graph showing heroic bosses cleared. I couldn't find the post with a quick search, but it's there.
Also, if heroic raiding was all they offered, they'd have a dead game on their hands, something like wildstar.
Found the graph: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3678-Armory-Stats-Heroic-SoO-Progression-Blizzard-CS-Callback-Blue-Tweets-Fan-Art
WoW is pretty easy to play. You can flub your way through a lot of the game and stumble into a lot of stuff without dying. There is the occasional fight where you can't win, or you win just as you die, but there aren't many of them. That does not mean WoW has no challenge, or that there isn't a difference between killing a mob in 3 seconds versus 10 seconds, but WoW is very forgiving.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Most likely because of the leveling experience and how easy it is to get into the game.
I doubt it takes into account raids and other "advanced/hardcore" stuff.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Of course they haven't it is the hardest fucking raid content ever....
I have played wow for a couple of years and dudes the game is easy, it's a casual players dream. And sure they have heroic settings to make i tough and yes they aren't easy but the game overall is easy. My 4 year old got her char to lvl 80 and I had to help her login since she can't write or read.
Nobody is arguing that wow doesn't have difficult settings on there raids but thats all, the rest is simple. I don't see why this is a bad thing 6.8 millions seems to love it.
But dudes arguing that wow is a difficult game is the same as saying that GW2 is hardcore game because they have the three headed jungle wurm which is very very tough. GW2 is also a casual players dream.
WoW is easy up to this point, but most people haven't the time nor will to put that much effort into getting the best gear. You can pretty much be terrible at the game up to LFR.
Even so look at the list of mmos in these forums and your will see there is close to a hundred mmos out there . Plenty with raiding content . It would be impossible to do them all . I know people that are in Rift that raid all the time that still havn't cleared all the raid content in that game . I play TSW the dungeons there are harder than many I've encountered elsewhere but I would not be footlhardy enough to describe it as the hardest around .
The people I know in Rift that raid also declare that Rifts raids are harder than WoWs but its what you expect of people that play and enjoy a game . Only a very gullible person would take such a persons word for it .
Essentially what you have admitted is that you don't personally know that WoW raiding content is the hardest so your earlier comment was not a statement of fact and was nothing more than a personal opinion based on your own experiences in WoW and the reinforcement of the opinions of a few other fans of WoW like yourself .
As such as a statement it is flawed and not to be taken seriously by anyone with a bit of common sense .
By the looks of the graph around 7% of the player base cleared the first boss in heroic SoO, and about 0.25% cleared the last boss.
If we would assume all players that attempted the heroic raid cleared the first boss, then about 3.5% of players that even attempted heroic cleared the last boss.
patch the content is useless.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
its different now, but when WOW released in 2004
most mmos were not "beginner friendly"
ask any EQ classic player that tried to hail a city guard and got instant killed for pushing the A button
when WOW released, Blizzard's death penalty was very tame (no experience loss)
the beginner areas were very friendly to anyone who never played a mmo before
fast forward, 10 years later, most mmos are "beginner friendly" now
EQ2 fan sites
I believe the mode for just wanting to see the content, is the LFR tourist mode. The point is, the challenging modes are there for the people that want it.
If one argues that players don't want to play the harder difficulties because they've already seen the content on easier modes, how can the game be blamed for being too easy? That's the players fault for choosing to play easy mode.
I'm kind of surprised Blizzard still even bothers with heroic content when it's plain that so many players don't even want to bother with it.
DAOC (retired): RR11 Merc
Upcoming: CU, Wasteland 2, Eternity, Planescape
Well I have step foot in a raid and heroic raids... lots of them for many years... and I can say they are not the same now... not saying they can't be difficult (on release, nerf bat timeframe is a different story), saying that they've become pointless because they have several versions of the same exact raid. I cleared such and such... so did I, I pugged it in LFR was done in an hour, and you? The sense of accomplishment is long gone. If everyone could climb Mt Everest, it wouldn't be such a great feat. If no one can ever fail, what is the point of victory.
It's not an elitist attitude to what a challenge that isn't superfluous. WoW is all about the superfluous. Which is fine. Many gamers only want that. It is also why they say it is an easy game... because it is.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level. I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
What we have today is a huge waste of time. I wish Blizzard would bring back the difficulty they had back in TCB and let those that don't like to level start at the last expansion. My wife and I use to love leveling back then doing pve and pvp. Now the pve is pointless and the pvp was ruined with account gear.
Leveling in wow was never challenging. More time consuming yes, but not challenging.
You would be wrong go play on a private server and come back here and post. Wow back in Vanilla and TBC make games today look like hello kitty.
or most of those players are the "hardcore" arena nerds that could care less about content or raiding and clearly think they are in some kind of "pro" pvp league?
I love the rose colored glasses argument. Go play on a private server and see how rose colored they are. Back in Vanilla and TBC wow had the perfect balance between to easy and to hard for leveling. Today we have a 5 year old leveling with ease.