Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level. I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
Leveling in wow was never challenging. More time consuming yes, but not challenging.
You would be wrong go play on a private server and come back here and post. Wow back in Vanilla and TBC make games today look like hello kitty.
I Second this. It was 1-60 and 60-70 that made people to pay their sub. End game was just a bonus.
Isn't it challenging enough? I see the message was last edited in 2008. That was arguably a good period of WoW. So how come?
The majority of the people who downvote WoW difficulty wise never set foot in a raid, and even less an heroic raid.
It's just ignorance and hathred of what is famous, and also feeling "superior" for disliking what others enjoy. Some people just need that, pity them and ignore them.
Well I have step foot in a raid and heroic raids... lots of them for many years... and I can say they are not the same now... not saying they can't be difficult (on release, nerf bat timeframe is a different story), saying that they've become pointless because they have several versions of the same exact raid. I cleared such and such... so did I, I pugged it in LFR was done in an hour, and you? The sense of accomplishment is long gone. If everyone could climb Mt Everest, it wouldn't be such a great feat. If no one can ever fail, what is the point of victory.
It's not an elitist attitude to what a challenge that isn't superfluous. WoW is all about the superfluous. Which is fine. Many gamers only want that. It is also why they say it is an easy game... because it is.
Yeah, because those people standing around in full heroic raid gear haven't earned it over those wearing the crappy "LFR" gear.
Please stop the nonsense.
PS: I don't own heroic raid gear nowadays, I mostly do PvP. But don't try to sell me the bullshit that challenge isn't there for those looking for it, with appropriate rewards to go with it. And by rewards, I don't mean just the gear, I mean achievements giving titles and unique mounts.
Seems to me that the people who are saying that "the sense accomplishment is long gone" are those who actually stick to easy mode and aren't even looking for it.
And that's purely your opinion and completely unsubstantiated. We should just do replies as such...
We must have played different games then, I don't need to play a private server, I was playing in vanilla and TBC. A 5 year old could still level just fine during those times.
Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level. I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
Leveling in wow was never challenging. More time consuming yes, but not challenging.
You would be wrong go play on a private server and come back here and post. Wow back in Vanilla and TBC make games today look like hello kitty.
I Second this. It was 1-60 and 60-70 that made people to pay their sub. End game was just a bonus.
When you look at the start of the decline of wow subs it goes back to Wotlk and the start of the dumbing down of the game. Are they tied together or just a coincidence? I would say no.
Originally posted by FeralLoki Because You can play WoW with your eyes closed, its that easy.
Ah, and I forgot those who never played wow at all, but still bash it because it's popular here on these forums.
Im sorry but Your psychic abilities have failed ones again, I have played WoW and i have done plenty of raids and i still think its as easy as 123, I quit because it was boring and hardly ran into any challanges.
Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level.
Rose colored memories, maybe? Or maybe you were bad at the game? Because I don't remember leveling being "challenging", just interesting. And that didn't change much, it actually was improved with new mechanics.
I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
I would say people who PRETEND wanting a challenge don't even look for it. Because when they realize it will also require some effort, they flee back to the easy mode, and then are like "zomg that game is so easy" on forums.
I love the rose colored glasses argument. Go play on a private server and see how rose colored they are. Back in Vanilla and TBC wow had the perfect balance between to easy and to hard for leveling. Today we have a 5 year old leveling with ease.
I've been playing since day one in November 2004 (not mentioning beta before). The most "scary" part of WoW leveling ended a couple of months after the "bright new shine" of a new game with a mysterious world ended.
If anything, early Vanilla was "harder" leveling wise because people didn't know what to expect.
But TBC, hard? Jeez, it was already leveling on rails. I don't say it wasn't fun, there were some nice stories going on, but hard? Maybe for right handed people with two left hands?
I just leveled a character in wow the past few weeks. The closest I came to dieing was never. My health bar never moves when I'm getting hit let alone my pet who can solo everything. In vanilla wow and tbc you could die and that is what seperates Wow today from Wow back then.
I just leveled a character in wow the past few weeks. The closest I came to dieing was never. My health bar never moves when I'm getting hit let alone my pet who can solo everything. In vanilla wow and tbc you could die and that is what seperates Wow today from Wow back then.
I agree with you 100% Greymantle, leveling in WoW today is a joke, they might aswell just boost everyone to max level.
I just leveled a character in wow the past few weeks. The closest I came to dieing was never. My health bar never moves when I'm getting hit let alone my pet who can solo everything. In vanilla wow and tbc you could die and that is what seperates Wow today from Wow back then.
See my previous post. Because back then, you were a noob who knew nothing about the game. Now you have like 10 years of experience in that kind of games, don't you think it's normal you play better?
10 Years of experience has nothing to do with Your character barely taking any damage by mobs or your Pet being able to solo anything.
Isn't it challenging enough? I see the message was last edited in 2008. That was arguably a good period of WoW. So how come?
leveling from 1 to 90 without dying once in PVE in like 1-2 days max.
And if that even is too difficult, why not just pull your wallet and buy a maxed character...
Raids are simple tank taunts, healer heals and dps spam 2-3 specials and stand out of aoe which are announced with bells and huge letters on screen through addons so even newb understands it, , do that for 5 minutes and the 100% scripted boss is dead and looted.
Think that might have to do with it.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Because it is on the easy side. A good majority of the content can be done with the lowest end of player. The only exception is heroics, which isn't exactly THAT hard, no matter what people try and claim. I don't think its the easiest out there, but if its judging by the good majority of the content, it is very much on the easy side, were as other MMos tend to have some difficulty in its gameplay throughout rather then focused on one area.
Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level. I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
Leveling in wow was never challenging. More time consuming yes, but not challenging.
You would be wrong go play on a private server and come back here and post. Wow back in Vanilla and TBC make games today look like hello kitty.
you are so wright, I remember TBC, just completing the 5 man heroics wasn't something you could just run through like today. Wow was very difficult in that expansion and today it's not the same. I don't think that raids are easy in wow heroic mode and anyone who says that are just wrong or trolling, what I am saying is that wow was very difficult but today very casual. Apart from the heroic raids I can't think of anything difficult with the game.
Wow has become Metallica, once a very heavy speed trashmetal band that would make people headbang there brains out but today they are trying to sell ballads to the mainstream to make more money, just like blizzard.
Now don't get me wrong I have nothing against casual games (gw2 player here) and I have nothing against the game World of warcraft either it's a great game but today it's way more easy then it used to be and most people want it this way.
WoW is impossible to judge its difficulty because of its multi-layered difficulty options and one can only determine it by raiding.
WoW has been out for a very very very long time and naturally some of the older difficulties don't age well when a game has gone through several difficulties, i.e. questing. Back in Vanilla and TBC one at times had to group or be careful instead of today's WoW where one can pull 10-15 mobs and not break a sweat. This happens with any game that's been out for a while. Take DDO, DDO used to be very precise with group make-up, what weapons one needed to bring, and proceded with care around some deadly obstables. Now its pretty much a solo zergfest for much of the content and DDO has been around as long as WoW.
To some extent, yes WoW is pretty much an effortless game. HOWEVER, for those that say its facepalm, how overgeared is the party or raid? I don't do heroics and the guild recently started doing normals but in Flex by far and wide the groups was way overgeared and really we were stuck on fights because of bad players who couldn't play well. That is a key issue with WoW, now one can be normal garry raid ready i-lvl with hardly stepping into SoO with the Timeless Isles. This has cause only the heroic raiders to face and real challange which is like what by some posters here... 1% of the raiding population? I don't do heroics since I don't have the time and quite frankly I don't want to deal with the headache of wiping n wiping n wiping. The difficulty and challenge is still there and is top notch since Blizzard does design their raids very well, its that most people cater toward the easy lewt and bitch about difficulty.
Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level. I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
Leveling in wow was never challenging. More time consuming yes, but not challenging.
You would be wrong go play on a private server and come back here and post. Wow back in Vanilla and TBC make games today look like hello kitty.
I Second this. It was 1-60 and 60-70 that made people to pay their sub. End game was just a bonus.
When you look at the start of the decline of wow subs it goes back to Wotlk and the start of the dumbing down of the game. Are they tied together or just a coincidence? I would say no.
Talk about shooting in your own foot... does it hurt?
People complaining about the end of WotLK's supposed "dumbing down" are complaining about things like the different raid levels, the dungeon finder... basically, all the end game things, and making end game more accessible to every player instead of just an elitist few, while still keeping the heroic modes for those said elitists.
No, leveling hasn't become easier in WoW. It's just you who has become more used to it. Back in 2004, you were a noob, you sucked at playing the game, and therefore it seemed hard to you. Now, playing it has become a reflex, you now all about it, making it seem easier.
If you think leveling hasn't become easier since TBC, i don't really know what to say. Go play on some private vanilla server and then come back and state your opinion again. I might have been a noob in 2004, but not in 2014 anymore. Still, Vanilla is a lot harder than the game Blizzard would charge me in 2014.
I've been a gamer for almost 25 years, and i know what is hard and what is easy, and let me tell you, leveling has become easier since vanilla.
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
You make the bold assumption that 100% of the population participate in the heroic raiding content. In truth, this content is more a reservation for very active guilds or the elite looking to clear. This content is hard, in the regards that it needs a lot of co-ordination, not many people have time for that.
Being a pre-BC player who did MC and BWL and all that jazz, was very fun and difficult but if I hadn't been unemployed at the time there would of been no way I would of been able to do the content, it was a massive time sink. Same goes for heroics, they are to placate those who want that old fashioned challenge from the pre-BC days and have a lot of time investment.
Last time I played, I just did the LFR stuff, I am more about seeing and participating than measuring my epeen with gear scores. Just don't have the time any more.
I just leveled a character in wow the past few weeks. The closest I came to dieing was never. My health bar never moves when I'm getting hit let alone my pet who can solo everything. In vanilla wow and tbc you could die and that is what seperates Wow today from Wow back then.
See my previous post. Because back then, you were a noob who knew nothing about the game. Now you have like 10 years of experience in that kind of games, don't you think it's normal you play better?
Nah. I think levelling in themepark MMOs has become undeniably easier over time. I haven't played WoW in many years but take my recent experience in ArcheAge. Arrows literally on the ground pointing where to go, aside from an odd boss mob or the stupid fast respawn timer nothing ever puts you in danger or forces you to think about which skills to use in which order. What you have to kill is like 10 feet from the quest NPC most of the time and this has been my experience in every game I've tried in this sub-genre in the last couple of years. Part of the reason I'm fed up with themeparks is I hate when I feel like games are patting me on the head and treating me like a moron.
Originally posted by jusomdude Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
If I recall Wow had around 11 million accounts back in TBC when leveling was challenging and longer to level. I would say it's safe to say your wrong people do like more of a challenge.
Leveling in wow was never challenging. More time consuming yes, but not challenging.
You would be wrong go play on a private server and come back here and post. Wow back in Vanilla and TBC make games today look like hello kitty.
I Second this. It was 1-60 and 60-70 that made people to pay their sub. End game was just a bonus.
When you look at the start of the decline of wow subs it goes back to Wotlk and the start of the dumbing down of the game. Are they tied together or just a coincidence? I would say no.
Talk about shooting in your own foot... does it hurt?
People complaining about the end of WotLK's supposed "dumbing down" are complaining about things like the different raid levels, the dungeon finder... basically, all the end game things, and making end game more accessible to every player instead of just an elitist few, while still keeping the heroic modes for those said elitists.
No, leveling hasn't become easier in WoW. It's just you who has become more used to it. Back in 2004, you were a noob, you sucked at playing the game, and therefore it seemed hard to you. Now, playing it has become a reflex, you now all about it, making it seem easier.
I give up you really have no clue. The dumbing down started with aoe dungeon running, elites vanishing from the world, account gear, the dumbing down of mobs etc.. All this effected the leveling game. Back in TBC if you tried to aoe dungeon run you would wipe. A lot of the elites in the world you couldn't even solo until you were a few levels higher. Today I could use auto attack and one ablility and level without any deaths and kill the few elites you encounter with ease.
If you think leveling hasn't become easier since TBC, i don't really know what to say. Go play on some private vanilla server and then come back and state your opinion again. I might have been a noob in 2004, but not in 2014 anymore. Still, Vanilla is a lot harder than the game Blizzard would charge me in 2014.
I've been a gamer for almost 25 years, and i know what is hard and what is easy, and let me tell you, leveling has become easier since vanilla.
I've been a gamer for longer than you, yet I don't feel any difficulty change in WoW leveling.
Go figure. Maybe I was just a better gamer back in 2004 when WoW was released. Joined the game on day one November 23, 2004, I was level 60 already doing raid gearing up for the 40 mans before the end of December.
If you are totally used to the current state of WOW, you should try a Vanilla server with the original setting. Migth get a wake up call.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
If you think leveling hasn't become easier since TBC, i don't really know what to say. Go play on some private vanilla server and then come back and state your opinion again. I might have been a noob in 2004, but not in 2014 anymore. Still, Vanilla is a lot harder than the game Blizzard would charge me in 2014.
I've been a gamer for almost 25 years, and i know what is hard and what is easy, and let me tell you, leveling has become easier since vanilla.
I've been a gamer for longer than you, yet I don't feel any difficulty change in WoW leveling.
Go figure. Maybe I was just a better gamer back in 2004 when WoW was released. Joined the game on day one November 23, 2004, I was level 60 already doing raid gearing up for the 40 mans before the end of December.
Then maybe you were a better gamer back then, indeed. I certainly can acknowledge the difference, even while playing on private server today.
If you think leveling hasn't become easier since TBC, i don't really know what to say. Go play on some private vanilla server and then come back and state your opinion again. I might have been a noob in 2004, but not in 2014 anymore. Still, Vanilla is a lot harder than the game Blizzard would charge me in 2014.
I've been a gamer for almost 25 years, and i know what is hard and what is easy, and let me tell you, leveling has become easier since vanilla.
I've been a gamer for longer than you, yet I don't feel any difficulty change in WoW leveling.
Go figure. Maybe I was just a better gamer back in 2004 when WoW was released. Joined the game on day one November 23, 2004, I was level 60 already doing raid gearing up for the 40 mans before the end of December.
If you are totally used to the current state of WOW, you should try a Vanilla server with the original setting. Migth get a wake up call.
His first death in the newbie lands and he would quit and never look back. :P
I don't get it. You linked the thread that has WoW as an easy game to play, yet you apparently didn't read the information that precedes the list:
"This section deals with the learning curve associated with a game, as well as it's complexity. A complex game will have a lot of information to learn for a newcomer, and will be more difficult to master. A simpler game will be easy to learn and play right off the bat as a newbie."
WoW does not require newcomers to learn a lot of information, it is easily playable right off the bat as a newbie, and the learning curve is extremely forgiving. That's not to say such is a bad thing, just that Blizzard made an extremely accessible game by very carefully tinkering the initial gameplay experience for newbies to more easily accommodate themselves with the game.
If you think leveling hasn't become easier since TBC, i don't really know what to say. Go play on some private vanilla server and then come back and state your opinion again. I might have been a noob in 2004, but not in 2014 anymore. Still, Vanilla is a lot harder than the game Blizzard would charge me in 2014.
I've been a gamer for almost 25 years, and i know what is hard and what is easy, and let me tell you, leveling has become easier since vanilla.
I've been a gamer for longer than you, yet I don't feel any difficulty change in WoW leveling.
Go figure. Maybe I was just a better gamer back in 2004 when WoW was released. Joined the game on day one November 23, 2004, I was level 60 already doing raid gearing up for the 40 mans before the end of December.
If you are totally used to the current state of WOW, you should try a Vanilla server with the original setting. Migth get a wake up call.
I don't need a wake up call, I remember precisely how I leveled and how fast in vanilla. And that was on my first character... which was a balance/restoration druid, ask some other veterans how easy that one was to level compared to other classes (hint: it was SLOOOOW!).
Fact: Nov 23. 2004, I was a level 1 noob NE druid. December 31. 2004, I was in the various end game dungeons which were 10 man back then (and UBRS 15 man) farming to move to the 40 man raids. No wake up call will dismiss that undeniable fact.
Ok since your so good lets go to a vanilla server and you can show me how good you are. We will make night elves and I will take you through the starting area up to Auberdine. If you die once game over you lose, if you don't die by the time we reach Auberdine I will never post again how challenging it was back then.
Coming from original everquest, I had a character that I had put in over 1000 hours and still had only gotten to level 51 out of 60 levels at the time. I could level 8 WoW characters to max level in that time. I still hadn't seen more than 70% of the game. Wow is a joke of a challenge compared to original EQ. In EQ, if you weren't in the top guild, you might not even see the top raid targets. Wow let's everyone go raid at whatever time they want and die as many times as they want with no punishment. Nothing wrong with casual games as long as they are fun. And Wow is fun to a lot of people just not me.
Originally posted by eqravenprince Coming from original everquest, I had a character that I had put in over 1000 hours and still had only gotten to level 51 out of 60 levels at the time. I could level 8 WoW characters to max level in that time. I still hadn't seen more than 70% of the game. Wow is a joke of a challenge compared to original EQ. In EQ, if you weren't in the top guild, you might not even see the top raid targets. Wow let's everyone go raid at whatever time they want and die as many times as they want with no punishment. Nothing wrong with casual games as long as they are fun. And Wow is fun to a lot of people just not me.
EQ would make modern mmo players cry. Most would quit in frustration after they died a few times in the newbie area.
Originally posted by jusomdude If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
Considering the game is stupid easy it's no wonder most haven't finished. They weren't forced to learn and improve anywhere along the way. In short, the game is and always has been easy.
You forget that WoW was designed for the casual gamer that didn't have 40 hours a week to play and research like many in EQ did. It wasn't supposed to be hard. It was supposed to coddle you into thinking you are just as l33t as those top raiders in EQ were that many cried about because it wasn't fair that those that were good enough to be raiding guilds got the best stuff. Guess the design worked.
Besides, Blizzard will buff the players or nerf the content if enough cry. They can't have the majority of their customers rage quitting because they can't handle it. They've done a bang up job convincing people that they really are the l33t of the l33t. Sorry, but you can't really be l33t if you are playing the original ultra dumbed down MMO that has gotten even easier over the years. That's like claiming you are l33t because you and your team won the NIT.
The real problem is, games aren't designed anymore to be challenging. The entitlement generation would rather race to 50, cry that there is no end game and jump to the next game and repeat the same cycle, much like WoW is nothing but a never ending cycle to get better gear.
Comments
I Second this. It was 1-60 and 60-70 that made people to pay their sub. End game was just a bonus.
And that's purely your opinion and completely unsubstantiated. We should just do replies as such...
You are wrong. Nuff said.
@Gremantle
We must have played different games then, I don't need to play a private server, I was playing in vanilla and TBC. A 5 year old could still level just fine during those times.
Were you leveling as a holy priest or something?
When you look at the start of the decline of wow subs it goes back to Wotlk and the start of the dumbing down of the game. Are they tied together or just a coincidence? I would say no.
Im sorry but Your psychic abilities have failed ones again, I have played WoW and i have done plenty of raids and i still think its as easy as 123, I quit because it was boring and hardly ran into any challanges.
I just leveled a character in wow the past few weeks. The closest I came to dieing was never. My health bar never moves when I'm getting hit let alone my pet who can solo everything. In vanilla wow and tbc you could die and that is what seperates Wow today from Wow back then.
I agree with you 100% Greymantle, leveling in WoW today is a joke, they might aswell just boost everyone to max level.
10 Years of experience has nothing to do with Your character barely taking any damage by mobs or your Pet being able to solo anything.
leveling from 1 to 90 without dying once in PVE in like 1-2 days max.
And if that even is too difficult, why not just pull your wallet and buy a maxed character...
Raids are simple tank taunts, healer heals and dps spam 2-3 specials and stand out of aoe which are announced with bells and huge letters on screen through addons so even newb understands it, , do that for 5 minutes and the 100% scripted boss is dead and looted.
Think that might have to do with it.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
you are so wright, I remember TBC, just completing the 5 man heroics wasn't something you could just run through like today. Wow was very difficult in that expansion and today it's not the same. I don't think that raids are easy in wow heroic mode and anyone who says that are just wrong or trolling, what I am saying is that wow was very difficult but today very casual. Apart from the heroic raids I can't think of anything difficult with the game.
Wow has become Metallica, once a very heavy speed trashmetal band that would make people headbang there brains out but today they are trying to sell ballads to the mainstream to make more money, just like blizzard.
Now don't get me wrong I have nothing against casual games (gw2 player here) and I have nothing against the game World of warcraft either it's a great game but today it's way more easy then it used to be and most people want it this way.
WoW is impossible to judge its difficulty because of its multi-layered difficulty options and one can only determine it by raiding.
WoW has been out for a very very very long time and naturally some of the older difficulties don't age well when a game has gone through several difficulties, i.e. questing. Back in Vanilla and TBC one at times had to group or be careful instead of today's WoW where one can pull 10-15 mobs and not break a sweat. This happens with any game that's been out for a while. Take DDO, DDO used to be very precise with group make-up, what weapons one needed to bring, and proceded with care around some deadly obstables. Now its pretty much a solo zergfest for much of the content and DDO has been around as long as WoW.
To some extent, yes WoW is pretty much an effortless game. HOWEVER, for those that say its facepalm, how overgeared is the party or raid? I don't do heroics and the guild recently started doing normals but in Flex by far and wide the groups was way overgeared and really we were stuck on fights because of bad players who couldn't play well. That is a key issue with WoW, now one can be normal garry raid ready i-lvl with hardly stepping into SoO with the Timeless Isles. This has cause only the heroic raiders to face and real challange which is like what by some posters here... 1% of the raiding population? I don't do heroics since I don't have the time and quite frankly I don't want to deal with the headache of wiping n wiping n wiping. The difficulty and challenge is still there and is top notch since Blizzard does design their raids very well, its that most people cater toward the easy lewt and bitch about difficulty.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
If you think leveling hasn't become easier since TBC, i don't really know what to say. Go play on some private vanilla server and then come back and state your opinion again. I might have been a noob in 2004, but not in 2014 anymore. Still, Vanilla is a lot harder than the game Blizzard would charge me in 2014.
I've been a gamer for almost 25 years, and i know what is hard and what is easy, and let me tell you, leveling has become easier since vanilla.
You make the bold assumption that 100% of the population participate in the heroic raiding content. In truth, this content is more a reservation for very active guilds or the elite looking to clear. This content is hard, in the regards that it needs a lot of co-ordination, not many people have time for that.
Being a pre-BC player who did MC and BWL and all that jazz, was very fun and difficult but if I hadn't been unemployed at the time there would of been no way I would of been able to do the content, it was a massive time sink. Same goes for heroics, they are to placate those who want that old fashioned challenge from the pre-BC days and have a lot of time investment.
Last time I played, I just did the LFR stuff, I am more about seeing and participating than measuring my epeen with gear scores. Just don't have the time any more.
Nah. I think levelling in themepark MMOs has become undeniably easier over time. I haven't played WoW in many years but take my recent experience in ArcheAge. Arrows literally on the ground pointing where to go, aside from an odd boss mob or the stupid fast respawn timer nothing ever puts you in danger or forces you to think about which skills to use in which order. What you have to kill is like 10 feet from the quest NPC most of the time and this has been my experience in every game I've tried in this sub-genre in the last couple of years. Part of the reason I'm fed up with themeparks is I hate when I feel like games are patting me on the head and treating me like a moron.
I give up you really have no clue. The dumbing down started with aoe dungeon running, elites vanishing from the world, account gear, the dumbing down of mobs etc.. All this effected the leveling game. Back in TBC if you tried to aoe dungeon run you would wipe. A lot of the elites in the world you couldn't even solo until you were a few levels higher. Today I could use auto attack and one ablility and level without any deaths and kill the few elites you encounter with ease.
If you are totally used to the current state of WOW, you should try a Vanilla server with the original setting. Migth get a wake up call.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Then maybe you were a better gamer back then, indeed. I certainly can acknowledge the difference, even while playing on private server today.
His first death in the newbie lands and he would quit and never look back. :P
I don't get it. You linked the thread that has WoW as an easy game to play, yet you apparently didn't read the information that precedes the list:
"This section deals with the learning curve associated with a game, as well as it's complexity. A complex game will have a lot of information to learn for a newcomer, and will be more difficult to master. A simpler game will be easy to learn and play right off the bat as a newbie."
WoW does not require newcomers to learn a lot of information, it is easily playable right off the bat as a newbie, and the learning curve is extremely forgiving. That's not to say such is a bad thing, just that Blizzard made an extremely accessible game by very carefully tinkering the initial gameplay experience for newbies to more easily accommodate themselves with the game.
Ok since your so good lets go to a vanilla server and you can show me how good you are. We will make night elves and I will take you through the starting area up to Auberdine. If you die once game over you lose, if you don't die by the time we reach Auberdine I will never post again how challenging it was back then.
EQ would make modern mmo players cry. Most would quit in frustration after they died a few times in the newbie area.
Considering the game is stupid easy it's no wonder most haven't finished. They weren't forced to learn and improve anywhere along the way. In short, the game is and always has been easy.
You forget that WoW was designed for the casual gamer that didn't have 40 hours a week to play and research like many in EQ did. It wasn't supposed to be hard. It was supposed to coddle you into thinking you are just as l33t as those top raiders in EQ were that many cried about because it wasn't fair that those that were good enough to be raiding guilds got the best stuff. Guess the design worked.
Besides, Blizzard will buff the players or nerf the content if enough cry. They can't have the majority of their customers rage quitting because they can't handle it. They've done a bang up job convincing people that they really are the l33t of the l33t. Sorry, but you can't really be l33t if you are playing the original ultra dumbed down MMO that has gotten even easier over the years. That's like claiming you are l33t because you and your team won the NIT.
The real problem is, games aren't designed anymore to be challenging. The entitlement generation would rather race to 50, cry that there is no end game and jump to the next game and repeat the same cycle, much like WoW is nothing but a never ending cycle to get better gear.