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Great game, but the player community leaves a lot to be desired.
Porta
Member Posts: 33
Picked this game up in November as I wanted something new to play. I've been playing MMO's since 1998, and it's my favorite passtime... largely because of the social element to these games.
I remember a few years ago when a player's reputation actually "meant something". People took great care in developing and fostering relationships with their servermates. A bad reputation meant you weren't going anywhere, because nobody wanted you around.
Perhaps this is WoW's problem? With new servers opening up every month, and the easy-mode levelling and gameplay system means players don't really "have" to care about their character's development? After all, if they mess up... they can just start all over, right?
The game itself is very fun, but I've met, grouped and guilded with some of the most undesirable people I've met in any game yet. Trying to build a guild that can achieve anything on a new server is painful... nobody stays in one place, or even on the server more than 2 weeks. You get this feeling you're in constant "flux".
It's discouraging. As much as I'd like to continue playing what I feel is a very fun "game", not a week goes by that a player, or a bunch of players, have ruined the experience for me... one week it's "Ninjalooting", another week it's grouping with complete idiots, and another you try to help someone out by giving what you "feel" is helpful advice (don't go up a ramp or you'll agro mobs), and being assaulted with a stream of bad language and insults... it's unbelievable!
If WoW has done anything for me, it's made me re-think long, drawn out grind games where character development is VERY slow. I want to share my gamespace with people, but I'd prefer those people actually care about interpersonal relationships.
/rant off.
.........................................................
Addicted to MMO's since '98.
No point listing my game titles, classes & levels. Accomplishing anything in an MMO these days is so bloody common that nobody really gives a crap.
Comments
I find the same kinds of issues myself. I love the game and I play it for its own sake. As far as guilds and groups, I am unguilded at 40 and I group rarely. Why? The community is horrible as a general rule. Make a mistake and get an accidental flag (didn't know that the shield next to an NPC meant flagging til recently) and you get griefed at the graveyards by higher level players repeatedly. Is that PvP? Hell no. It's a pain in the ass though, thats for sure. Make a comment or ask for help in general chat? Why bother? 99% of the responses you get are foul mouthed tools who seem to think it the highest level of hilarity to debase and insult you for daring to ask their exalted selves for anything.
Here's a real good example of the "stellar community" I have experienced in WoW recently.
Grouped with a serious jerkoff on horde side other day. PvP in crossroads. Now, at 39, I was way too low to be really useful to the 60s I was with but I can hunters mark and such on enemies and make it a little easier for them. And they needed a ranged player to try n soak mana, drop healoth etc. As a hunter, I try to stay out of the melee, since I am better with bows and I cant really survive a sustained melee with a higher lvl without a pet. My class is not designed for it. Myself and the one other lower level who happened to be there get called "pussies" in the local defense channel by this tool for not jumping a lvl 60 and going to to toe with him. Apparently the player who went off on us was pissed because his rogue died once after we got waxed for the 5th time or so. So I left the group after he called me that, followed by the term "a shitty hunter." Don't need the grief. He then proceeded to send me tells consisting of profanity and threats regarding this incident. I promptly put him on ignore and went about my business. He THEN proceeded to log in AN ALT to continue the beratement. I didn't bother reporting him or responding, but I have not been interested in getting into PvP since.
If you should happen to play on Shadowsong, avoid Hayabusa I think his name is. 60 troll rogue. Very abusive player and not at all friendly when things go south.
So yes, I agree the community I have experienced thus far basically blows for the most part. However, there are a few diamonds out there and we tend to have good conversations in Barrens when I am there. I would say to avoid guilds for now and avoid grouping with complete strangers generally. Most of them tend to be selfish, foul mouthed people with no respect for anyone but themselves. Make a friend or two and group with THEM. Avoid pick ups and the like.
Feel free to flame or comment to your heart's content folks. This is my experience only and not a broad assumption of all players. Merely the ones I have encountered thus far.
I agree with both comments thus far and as a person with a Degree in Psychology it still makes little sense as to why this is the case, why are there as many self centred people in these games is it the nature of the beast, is it because these games attract a particular group of people, A simple example, I had a few hundred gold on my alliance character and needed some cash on my new shiny new horde character on the same server, A trusted veteran member of my guild who had transferred from the alliance side to the horde side for a new challenge, informed me that he would assist in transferring the funds via the Booty bay auction and then decided to keep the virtual money once the transaction was complete, I eventually recovered 2/3 of the money after I created a ticket and informed him that I had done so, his defense was that I had tempted him, and that I was a noob, that sums up the majority of my WoW experiences, people just do stuff because they can, they dont transfer the mind set of do unto others into these games, I have heard people actually threaten to find a person in real life and beat them up because they dont agree with there viewpoint in the game, after three years of online MMOs I have a healthy contempt brewing for them, and find the school playground mentality is starting to make my leisure time a nightmare.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Simple solution to all of this. /ignore. If you end up ignoring more than half the people on the server than cancel your account and find a better game. You have that power to control what you play and don't play. I've been fighting the same battle you guys are discussing now for 3 years and I finally quit fighting and started using the /ignore command.
I agree that you shouldn't have to do this, but do you see any other way around it? Does all this complaining make a difference? I know it doesn't, because it hasn't made a difference for the other hundreds of us that made the same complaints.
Another thing to consider is to make a character on a non-pvp server. I play on Shadow Council (RP) and Emerald Dreams (RPPVP). For every 1 asshat there is 5 good people playing on Shadow Council. I just Started Emerald Dream so I can't say for sure. I do know on ED that the people were fairly mature until around late night and then some kids came on and started talking about Chuck Norris again. My point is that PvP breads immaturity. I like PvP, but I am more willing to play a PvE only game if it will rid me of the immaturity involved with PvP.
I think a number of things contribute to WoW's poor quality of community.
Some people say it's the average age group that plays WoW, or the "maturity factor" that creates these problems, but I don't believe this is the only contributor. I've met many a teenager in games prior to WoW, and their behaviour was nothing like anything I've seen in WoW to date. But, if more teenagers play WoW than adults, then it seems likely there will be a shift in average maturity level of a social environment, and it would explain why teenagers in more "mature" games behave more adult.
Another contributing factor I believe is the fact that player reputation holds very little value to anyone in WoW, but at the same time, there is no real way to get the individual recognition that MMO gamers seem to crave. There are so many people playing WoW, that identifying and remembering a single person for anything (good and bad) is rare. Players seem almost desparate for any little bit of recognition. From boasting about past achievements on other servers, to behaving like a complete jerk... it seems people will stop at nothing to be "remembered", or gain a reputation. Unfortunately, most reputations that get remembered are the bad ones, soon to be forgotten.
There is no real penalty for being a jerk in WoW. In other games, getting to high-level content meant weeks, months or years of character development, and facing challenges thoughtfully, with tactically oriented people. Because getting to that "high end game" content took so much time and effort, and it required more than your average group of people to accomplish anything, people were much more mindful of their reputation. In some games, achieving goals isn't merely about the number of people you throw at an encounter... there is true stragety involved. While this is true in WoW as well, it seems more people take the "Zerg Route" than building a strong guild membership who does the unthinkable. Zerg is effortless... easy... and almost anyone can do it. Because it's possible to win with Zerg... just about anyone can accomplish anything in the game.
But none of this accounts for the unprecidented popularity of the game. Like I said before, the game itself is "fun". This isn't something I can say about a lot of other titles on the market. Being a newbie in WoW is actually an enjoyable experience. The quests are fast and rewards come quickly; because there is so much armor variety you can see the fruits of your efforts as your character grows, rather than be stuck with the same look for weeks.
I think the community will eventually be the undoing of WoW. I can easily see it as becoming an "entry-level" MMO for players new to this style of game. As a result, it will always have a very large playerbase... but turnover will be high. Players will either get turned off of MMO's entirely, or they will seek greater challenges to stroke this need for recognition that you just can't get in WoW with the population it fosters today.
In summary, more people doesn't necessarily mean a better game. It looks great on the company's books and profile... but in terms of actual gameplay, it severely reduces the overall experience.
.........................................................
Addicted to MMO's since '98.
No point listing my game titles, classes & levels. Accomplishing anything in an MMO these days is so bloody common that nobody really gives a crap.
I used to swear by WOW but now Im pretty much over it. Started playing when it was first released, quit, then came back about six months later and just recently left again. Both times the reason was the playerbase.
The biggest problem I have with the game is that the end game content (and yes there is some) pretty much
requires you to be in huge raiding groups. Well even with Queue stones, gather a group of people to raid or even getting a PUG together is a total headache. I would log on and spend hours just LFGing in Ogrimar.
Then when you did get a pug, some a-hole would wind up ninjalooting an item. Or there would be an argument over who got what dearly needed item for their epic armor.
I tried joining a large guild to avoid these things and was immediately bogged down in a bunch of bs rules,
"You cant roll on anything unless no one else wants it", or "Your in a probationary period, if we like you and you dont roll on anything we might let you into the guild". So I spent days and days running raid instances and not getting a chance to even roll. I didnt complain but I was getting fed up.
The politics of guilds is often a total joke too, I had pugged with some people and one friend for an instance, and some guy from another guild started bad mouthing my buddy and lecturing us about how we should play and stop acting like "idiots". Everyone was getting sick of his crap so I finally told the guy off.
Turns out he was a friend of our guild leader and I got chewed out for it. And Im thinking the whole time..."Why am I paying to be lectured by a 19 year old employee from eb games on how I should play?"
Its all moot now, until d&d online or Lotr online comes out, Ill be sticking with Morrowind and guild wars.
I dont imagine Blizzard has a patch for people acting like elitest pricks so I guess Im SOL on this game.
I love the people I play with. They're all great people... helpful, fun, I can't say enough.
But there sure are a ton of asshats out there.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Find a guild that has people with your similar gameplay in mind. Join a RL friend in game if you can. Experiences will vary IMO. There are so many people playing well will be good apples and bad apples. The idea is to meet up with the good apples more often and avoid the bad ones.
If you go into the real world, 90% of the people you meet are going to be real nice at first, but then you get to know them and are real jerks.
I think WoW does allow for people to take off their first-impression face and do whatever they want.
But much like the real world, there are those people out there that are genuinely nice and want to have a good time. Any game is going to have the bad seeds, it's just that WoW has so many people playing all the time that it's real easy to run into the morons. Take your time and you will find the good people to play/chat/hang with in game.
Much like the real world.
I'm sorry to read that some of you have had such horrible experiences. My only advice is to take your time in choosing a guild. Conversely, if you're creating one be mindful whom you let join.
Eitherway, good luck. ><
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
While I cannot 100% disagree with you, I have to say your example will be very rare. Gaming with people you met first in RL is way different then gaming with people you only met online. the online only people can hide behind their computer and remain anonymous where as the RL people understand each other on a way different level. They might even communicate outside the game or other means besides the internet.
The anonymity of the internet can bring out the worst in some people.
Maybe I have been supremely lucky, but I've met a ton of great peaple in WoW. Often even when I am out soloing if I get in a bad spot some random stranger will step in and save my bum. I get buffed by starngers constantly. Pickup groups in instanes can certinly be a bad scene, but pickup groups for regular quests are usually pretty fun. Most of the freinds I have in game are 25 or older. The only exception I can think of is the granddaughter of another freind of mine. And I'm not in some gaming group for geezers
, these are just the random folks I've met.
There are certain games that have stellar communities (pre NGE SWG comes to mind, for example), and WoW is certainly not one of them. But I just don't see that WoW is so much worse than the average MMORPG. I've met asshats in every one of these games I've played, and honestly I've made more friends in WoW than I usually do. Choose your guild wisely, put the asshats on ignore . . . .but isn't that what you do in any of these games?
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Im on the Maelstrom server.
Everyone seems rather friendly there....even the Player Enemies (full PvP/RP)
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
yeah thats a huge problem in wow ! in runescape if u do something dishonorable everybody will know and not like u etc but in wow no one knows anyone lol
So far I can say I played only on two servers, my first was an RP server and the second was a PvP server. The difference in the community was as big as the ocean.
Most of what the opening poster said was true in PvP server, though it has never been as bad on the RP server. I found that most of the immature little kids (and adults) chose a PvP type of server so that they can gank low levels when ever they wanted. I have been playing on the RP server for almost a year now. 11 months ago I joined a guild and to this day I am still a member (officer) of and never regret my decision.
Sure at times you get the roles of the servers inverted. In my case was this week, a mail item that I won was ninja looted from my hunter just because I wasn't 40 yet (considering I did the most work and had received no items prior to that I thought it was fair enough). Many of the good players do try their best to maintain a good reputation not only to make sure that the guild they are part of also doesn't get a bad reputation but so that they themselves are invited into raid dungeons. Advice isn't too hard to get either; in most cases asking will give you a good answer that is greatly helpful.
All I can say is either find a good guild and stick with them or change realms.
I have to say I agree whole heartidly with the OP. While I was playing WoW, I did have a wonderful time with the game itself, it can certainly be quite impressive at times. I of course had many of the same complaints as many, the game is just simply to centered around getting that epic gear and crazy loot, but whatever, it is what it is, take it or leave it.
My only other major issue with the game was the community, never in the time that I've been gaming have I experienced such an immense collection of completely idiotic, self centered, maniacle behavior. I mean seriously, some of these people are just downright disgusting human beings... really. I can safely say that they absolutely destroyed my gaming experience.
Eventually I tried to move my home server, going to Emarld Dream a RP-PVP server, hoping at least there would some refuge from the pre-teens and maybe that there would even be (heaven forbid) a little RP. But again, all I met was pre-teens that did nothing but leet speak to each other in general chat, guilds that were BG and Loot obsessed and dear god, when people actually found out I was female... none stop harrasment.
It really is a shame, because as I said I genuinely enjoyed WoW. It was certainly not the best MMO I ever played, nowhere near the most original, but it was interesting, well developed and has lots of open possibility's for the future. I just can't bring myself to play a game with so many people that are so angry and underhanded.
In the end, I don't know if I would have stayed if the community was better, especially since the game is so "uber loot" oriented but one thing I know for sure, it would have made my time there alot better and I would have certainly given it a much better chance then I did.
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Shoot Shae, I wish I knew you moved to ED. I could've refered you to some RP'ers that moved from the Kettemoor server in SWG.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
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I think the real issue here falls on inexperience with mmorpgs. The majority of players in WoW have never played a mmorpg before and it shows.
Grouping
Scenario 1 - kiddie warlock plays his toon mostly solo to lvl 40. Now its time for the big instances for the better gear. He uses his same solo technique of aoe fire spell and sword for melee attacks. The group is puzzled to his weapon choice and tactics. Kiddie warlock swears at the healer for not keeping him alive. Group breaks up over the follow-up argument.
Scenario 2 - Kiddie warrior plays his toon mostly solo to lvl 40. Once he gets to the bigger instances he's constantly asked "hey dude where is your shield" He simply doesnt understand the importance of being a meatshield and swears at members for daring to tell him how to play. Group members try and explain that since there is a rogue and a mage in the group, they dont need the warrior to try and dps (duel weapon) and its more important to hold aggro and take a pounding. Kiddie warrior swears at group members and drops out leaving group screwed one member short.
Scenario 3 - Any dps class, same situation to 40. In the instance they feel like its okay to target any mob that the tank isnt holding down. Mob then pounds said dps class (rogue or mage) and kills them. They scream at healer for letting them die. A decent healer knows its best to keep tank alive or they all die and if he's low on mana he'll conserve it for the tank. Group tries to explain that its better if dps attacks mob that tank is on even suggesting to target tank so they can stay on same target. Again, Kiddie dps isnt interested in a logical explanation and leaves group.
Scenario 4 - The ninja looter. Everyone agrees to pass on any Bind on Pickup items and then decide after who rolls on it or give to whomever needs it the most. 2-3 hours inside an instance and the moment of truth comes....YES the item drops that you want to badly. 4 people pass and then the last player hits greed roll and everyone groans. Its usually followed by the same lame excuse "sorry wasnt paying attention" or "why should i pass when i need it" garbage. Another wasted night in an instance sigh
All of these scenarios would go away if WoW players were more reliant on each other and were forced to interact more. In other mmorpgs one finds themselves needing others for wound heals, gear, buffs, etc. Not in WoW where anyone can pretty much solo the whole game to lvl 60 and never talk to a single person. A person's rep means nothing here.
Ultimately this game plays too much like a rpg with msn messenger than a mmorpg. And I think Blizzard knows how bad the community is. Take a look at their tips...in one load screen a tip suggests to "be friendly to other group mates and you'll get invited back" lol
Very funny.. yet I disagree with the last bit. I rely on my guild members MUCH MORE than I relied on anyone in SWG. Pick-up groups can't give you the tone for the community at all... the interdependance within a guild is the gifference between night and day in any MMORPG, especially WoW.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Oh well, spilt milk, as they say
Shame though, I have to say that SWG players, at least the one's I knew well, were some of the best RP'ers I've met since I started playing mmo's. I remember many upon many good nights of rp'ing on Eclips way back when.
Shae, I was on eclipse also right from launch until the NGE disaster. It was such a great community and rp was everywhere. It was such a rush to take my jedi knight and help out some new player in need. Or appear out of nowhere to save a group in the squil caves.
I met this one guild called Tombstone on Lok one evening. They were out trying to get a gdk scale for their armorsmith to get his RIS certification (wow what a concept, helping guildies lol). Giant Dune Kimo pre-cu were nasty beasts taking some 20 min to take down. These guys were struggling mightily so I decide to heck with visibility and jumped in to save them. At first they thought I was trying to KS but quickly realized I wasnt when i was healing them. I proceeded to help them take down 2 more spawns and finally they got that rare elusive GDK scale (very rare drop then). I said to them please keep my identity a secret from the empire and left.
Later that week they invited me to join them for a ceremony (they wouldnt say for what). I was aprehensive at first smelling a possible BH trap but agreed. Once I got there, they had formed up like in A New Hope (medal scene). I was asked to approach the stage. They then presented me with a flawless pearl they had looted the previous night. We all made pledges to each other to stand against the empire. I joined their guild that night.
I still miss events like that in SWG. WoW is so hollow of a game to me.
To make an analogy. WoW is like hamburgers. Sure they taste fine. However once you've had a juicy steak (swg), then that hanburger seems kinda plain.
Oh well, spilt milk, as they say
Shame though, I have to say that SWG players, at least the one's I knew well, were some of the best RP'ers I've met since I started playing mmo's. I remember many upon many good nights of rp'ing on Eclips way back when.
Shae, I was on eclipse also right from launch until the NGE disaster. It was such a great community and rp was everywhere. It was such a rush to take my jedi knight and help out some new player in need. Or appear out of nowhere to save a group in the squil caves.
I met this one guild called Tombstone on Lok one evening. They were out trying to get a gdk scale for their armorsmith to get his RIS certification (wow what a concept, helping guildies lol). Giant Dune Kimo pre-cu were nasty beasts taking some 20 min to take down. These guys were struggling mightily so I decide to heck with visibility and jumped in to save them. At first they thought I was trying to KS but quickly realized I wasnt when i was healing them. I proceeded to help them take down 2 more spawns and finally they got that rare elusive GDK scale (very rare drop then). I said to them please keep my identity a secret from the empire and left.
Later that week they invited me to join them for a ceremony (they wouldnt say for what). I was aprehensive at first smelling a possible BH trap but agreed. Once I got there, they had formed up like in A New Hope (medal scene). I was asked to approach the stage. They then presented me with a flawless pearl they had looted the previous night. We all made pledges to each other to stand against the empire. I joined their guild that night.
I still miss events like that in SWG. WoW is so hollow of a game to me.
To make an analogy. WoW is like hamburgers. Sure they taste fine. However once you've had a juicy steak (swg), then that hanburger seems kinda plain.
I still cry on the inside for the loss of SWG. I really miss the community and the RP myself. I miss being able to log on for hours and not exactly do anything of worth to the game itself, but still have a good time talking with other people. I hope that someday another game will come out like that, preferrably a Star Wars game, but I doubt it. I can admit that they will make more money making games like WoW and EQ than games like SWG, but I still hope that someday some company will make a game for people like us that want to build our own world and don't neccessarily need spoon fed content or a level grind to enjoy ourselves. Just give us a skill based system, player ran cities, and plenty of things to do that have nothing to do with combat with a good back ground story and we should be fine. I still never got my Jedi. I played a Jedi after the NGE, but that isn't the Jedi I wanted and was working so hard to be. I wanted rarity yet felt like just another grain of sand on the beach. <sigh> I miss the old SWG.
SWG could've been a juicy steak, instead we were served with a flimsy piece of top-round (sans A1).
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I've played WoW for a year and have been blown away a lot of the times by how shallow and materialistic and un friendly the big majority of the community is. The reason i believe is down to the fact that the game it's self is so shallow and sterile that nothing in the game has any depth or meaning to the players apart from Epic Items and Gold.
I've played other MMORPG's where players reputation is based on how helpful, suportive and friendly they are, where joining a guild is like joining a club. WoW is totally different, A players reputation is based on how Uber his armor or weapons are and Guilds are just used as stepping stones to getting those Uber items and gold.
Then you have the Raid Guilds and the elitism they breed. When raid guilds were formed a lot of smaller guilds were disbanded because of their lvl 60 members deserting for RG's. You can often find these 'elite' players standing at the back of the bank in IF or posing on their Epic mounts out front.
Dont get me wrong, there are a few people who I've met that I consider good friends but they are few and far between.