I dont really see alot of hate, I see alot of disappointment, however. I think they went to niche, vanilla WoW was a good game but, remember those players are about 10 years older now and the market is entirely different now.
Cuz -800k + PR team from competitors paid minimum wage to multi acc fake feedback everwhere on interet with cdds software to get a sheep snowball effect.
Cuz -800k + PR team from competitors paid minimum wage to multi acc fake feedback everwhere on interet with cdds software to get a sheep snowball effect.
Originally posted by Jabas You start a thread asking why there isnt more people playing Wildstar, a game where you are having fun.
Then you end saying that those who didnt like it or quit for any reason its because they lack of "skill" to play the game.
Actually, I never said why aren't there more people playing Wildstar. I asked why all the Hatred for it.
As for the skill part, you are correct. Ive known several people in my guild who couldnt cut it and left. So that part is more of an observation.
It's a subjective observation, which you are then generalizing to a larger group of people, whose reasons for leaving you do not know, but dismiss as "lack of skill" anyway. It's as though you can't fathom (or acknowledge) any other reason why someone would leave a game you clearly enjoy. That's a very dishonest and close-minded way to go about it, and makes you look more like a fanboy trying to indirectly "defend their game", rather than someone genuinely seeking feedback.
This is further evidenced by the fact that you pre-emptively address and then immediately dismiss some other reasons people may not have stuck around, in this paragraph:
"People are going to post behind me and talk about bugs and bots and exploits as to why the game is bad. If you've been following the game at all, Carbine has all but eliminated the Bots, Fixes bugs on a weekly basis and same with exploits."
The bias in your post is about as opaque as a clear glass window.
When you cut through it all, what you're really asking is, "Why don't more people like Wildstar as much as I do?" Of course, you then proceed to try answer your own question, by throwing everyone in a convenient box, labeled "Awful, lazy players, ruined by WoW". This generalization is as misguided as it is silly, considering many people have rejected Wildstar for many of the same reasons they've rejected WoW (as in, they were never WoW players to begin with).
As far as "all the hate"... well that requires some qualification. Are you talking about stuff that can be legitimately considered hate for hate's sake? Or are you including any and all criticism of the game in there? Given the rest of your post, I'm kinda guessing you're including any and all criticism of the game as "hate" - because it's easier to dismiss a lazily constructed strawman, than it is to address a valid, or well-presented criticism (which there has been plenty of).
At the end of the day, when you ask why people seem to be "hating on the game" (as you put it), what they're really doing is voicing their opinion of a game they aren't particularly fond of.
And if that seems like an odd concept to you, well, it's precisely what you are doing in your own opening post when you describe your views with that list of games...
Everquest: First and foremost great game for its time. DAOC: Great RvR overall solid game. WoW: Great in the early years til they dumbed it down. Aion: Bot infested waste of space. WaR: Fun game was sad to see it go. AoC: Fun game but no longevity. GW2: Nice graphics but a fail game. FFXIV: Great graphics, fun game but lacking Endgame. AA: Solid Game if you like PvP. A little light on PvE. Wildstar: Cartoony Graphics, Great combat system and a lot of Endgame.
In that list, you are sharing your opinion of those games, whether good, bad or otherwise. Likewise, others share their opinions of Wildstar, whether good, bad or otherwise.
Now, if one wanted to dismiss your criticism of those games, as you dismiss others' opinions of Wildstar, they could simply ignore your specific points, and throw you into a convenient box labeled "lazy", "hater", or what have you.
Now, would you consider it fair or reasonable for someone to just toss your views aside like that, simply because they don't echo their own? Of course not.
So, perhaps you can see the problem with your OP, and why it's dismissive and insulting to others who happen to have issues with Wildstar.
Originally posted by cheyane I believe people are threatened by the art style. One guy has been to every Wildstar thread calling it a cartoon. It must really bug him that everyone one of his posts are only to complain about Wildstar. Odd that a game which if you choose to you can basically ignore has garnered this much hate.
I am curious. How does one feel threatened by graphics?
Admittedly, I am one who does not like Wildstar's cartoony art style and I've commented as much on two threads "today." A review of my posting history, however, will show that these are the only two threads about Wildstar I have ever posted in, and I did so today because they were both inquiring as to why players are adverse to the game and I sought to be consistent in my opinion on both threads. I, however, do not hate Wildstar nor would I ever hate any game. But let me set the record straight so that this does not come back to bite me in the backside, it is not so much the cartoony graphics that does not appeal to me as much as the art style. I am not adverse to cartoony graphics as I understand most MMORPGs have cartoony graphics to some degree. The loud colored cartoony art style in Wildstar is just a bit over the top for me though, but that's just a personal preference and the reason I did not even give it a whirl. Some people like it, some people don't. Nothing more, nothing less.
Did you miss out the part where I said the account was created today ?
You can be threatened by an art style if you think that art style has caused you to react negatively to a game .That game might have had a chance with you had it not had that art style so you feel you must attack that art style choice lest you might come across more game developers who might choose that art style. Hence you voice your objections loudly and make sure no one mistakes you for a kid .The reference to kids and cartoon always make me laugh because I am a grandmother well at my age could be considered an old granny and I love cartoons and in places Japan and Korean where manga and manhwa exist people read comics and watch anime and no one blankets them all as kid's stuff.
All this posturing and critique about art style ,colours and cartoon is so superficial.
Originally posted by Jabas You start a thread asking why there isnt more people playing Wildstar, a game where you are having fun.
Then you end saying that those who didnt like it or quit for any reason its because they lack of "skill" to play the game.
Actually, I never said why aren't there more people playing Wildstar. I asked why all the Hatred for it.
As for the skill part, you are correct. Ive known several people in my guild who couldnt cut it and left. So that part is more of an observation.
It's a subjective observation, which you are then generalizing to a larger group of people, whose reasons for leaving you do not know, but dismiss as "lack of skill" anyway. It's as though you can't fathom (or acknowledge) any other reason why someone would leave a game you clearly enjoy. That's a very dishonest and close-minded way to go about it, and makes you look more like a fanboy trying to indirectly "defend their game", rather than someone genuinely seeking feedback.
This is further evidenced by the fact that you pre-emptively address and then immediately dismiss some other reasons people may not have stuck around, in this paragraph:
"People are going to post behind me and talk about bugs and bots and exploits as to why the game is bad. If you've been following the game at all, Carbine has all but eliminated the Bots, Fixes bugs on a weekly basis and same with exploits."
The bias in your post is about as opaque as a clear glass window.
When you cut through it all, what you're really asking is, "Why don't more people like Wildstar as much as I do?" Of course, you then proceed to try answer your own question, by throwing everyone in a convenient box, labeled "Awful, lazy players, ruined by WoW". This generalization is as misguided as it is silly, considering many people have rejected Wildstar for many of the same reasons they've rejected WoW (as in, they were never WoW players to begin with).
As far as "all the hate"... well that requires some qualification. Are you talking about stuff that can be legitimately considered hate for hate's sake? Or are you including any and all criticism of the game in there? Given the rest of your post, I'm kinda guessing you're including any and all criticism of the game as "hate" - because it's easier to dismiss a lazily constructed strawman, than it is to address a valid, or well-presented criticism (which there has been plenty of).
At the end of the day, when you ask why people seem to be "hating on the game" (as you put it), what they're really doing is voicing their opinion of a game they aren't particularly fond of.
And if that seems like an odd concept to you, well, it's precisely what you are doing in your own opening post when you describe your views with that list of games...
Everquest: First and foremost great game for its time. DAOC: Great RvR overall solid game. WoW: Great in the early years til they dumbed it down. Aion: Bot infested waste of space. WaR: Fun game was sad to see it go. AoC: Fun game but no longevity. GW2: Nice graphics but a fail game. FFXIV: Great graphics, fun game but lacking Endgame. AA: Solid Game if you like PvP. A little light on PvE. Wildstar: Cartoony Graphics, Great combat system and a lot of Endgame.
In that list, you are sharing your opinion of those games, whether good, bad or otherwise. Likewise, others share their opinions of Wildstar, whether good, bad or otherwise.
Now, if one wanted to dismiss your criticism of those games, as you dismiss others' opinions of Wildstar, they could simply ignore your specific points, and throw you into a convenient box labeled "lazy", "hater", or what have you.
Now, would you consider it fair or reasonable for someone to just toss your views aside like that, simply because they don't echo their own? Of course not.
So, perhaps you can see the problem with your OP, and why it's dismissive and insulting to others who happen to have issues with Wildstar.
Great reply really. I hope OP reads this and realises his double standards.
Pff... "Hate", WS forums were peaceful in comparison to ESO launch and how AA forums are now.
People "hate" this game for the same reason you labeled GW2 a "failure"... Personal opinion/ You can't please everybody. People leave WS not because of one sole reason, but because of a collection of them, people leave this game because: boring quest hub design; linear questing; cartoony graphics; in your face humour; hardcore design; raid=only endgame; very fast-paced combat; etc. You get it now?
Saying WoW made people lazy is very offensive and close-minded, you don't wanna know why people hate WS, you just wanna look for a reason to put people down because they "lacked skill". Seeing your post history you like to complain how "WoW destroyed MMOs and made people lazy", you don't want a discussion, you want to gloat in how much effort you put into the game you like and how every other player wants instant gratification.
Did you miss out the part where I said the account was created today ?
You can be threatened by an art style if you think that art style has caused you to react negatively to a game .That game might have had a chance with you had it not had that art style so you feel you must attack that art style choice lest you might come across more game developers who might choose that art style. Hence you voice your objections loudly and make sure no one mistakes you for a kid .The reference to kids and cartoon always make me laugh because I am a grandmother well at my age could be considered an old granny and I love cartoons and in places Japan and Korean where manga and manhwa exist people read comics and watch anime and no one blankets them all as kid's stuff.
All this posturing and critique about art style ,colours and cartoon is so superficial.
As are most complaints about subjective matters. I agree.
Ignoring comments like 'childish' eyc I also gave up the game due in part to the gfx style (and I defended it for a time) i hated the 'gtfo' when you levelled which is a bit silly, but world design had something nmissing for me- it was hard to put my finger on it, the zones felt like large areas with masses of stuff flung on top like debris rather than a crafted living world. Felt like developers hard designed the world rather than designers with artistic skills.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
From reading multiple forum posts, there are a LOT of different reasons why people "Hate" (as defined by the OP, where hate apparently includes constructive criticism) Wildstar.
SOME don't like the graphics.
SOME don't like the bad optimization.
SOME don't like the telegraph system.
SOME don't like that you only get one toolbar.
SOME don't like the linear questing system that's the same for all characters past the intro point (which only differs depending on your faction)
SOME don't like the difficulty (SOME say it hurts their wrists. SOME say they just can't keep up. SOME say that they'd rather have a more easy going MMO that they can have a beer while playing etc)
SOME don't like that it doesn't really offer much new in that it's a generic theme park.
SOME don't like how horrible the PVP is.
SOME don't like the bugs.
SOME don't like the "RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG" loot system.
MANY don't like the time-sink of attunement etc (not to be confused with "difficulty", though lots of "hard core" people alas make that confusion)
MANY don't like the fact that at end game, the ONLY thing to really do is raid (I say "MANY" instead of "SOME" because this one crops up a lot more than the others when people say why they left. It's definitely not the only reason, though, as you can see from the long list above). A lot of people log on, do their dailies, and then have nothing else to really do in the week if they can't get into a raiding group.
MANY don't like the (apparent?) lack of population, although that's more the result of the above than a cause in itself (though it is a cascading cause, if you will, in that the lower population will cause even those who like the game to leave eventually. ...or the game to shut down, obviously)
In the end, Wildstar does have some major problems, but it also has a bunch of lesser ones. Some people will try to strawman just one reason for "all the hate" (the most often used one is "hardcore" people saying others are just "lazy" or "don't have skill"), but these people woefully ignore the HUGE list of OTHER problems MANY people have with the game that have nothing to do with "difficulty".
In the end, the vast majority of people who tried Wildstar ended up running into SOMETHING that turned them off from the game. This something differed from person to person but there are so many of these things that most people ran into one eventually. About the only thing people seem to unanimously like is housing. Every where else there's some aspect of the game that made someone say "This something is just not fun, and makes the game really not worth my time (or money in some cases)".
For years people said they were tired of this type of game. It was too deep into development to turn it around though. It had no chance from the time they decided they could do what WoW does better.
LOL, anyone notice that the ESO hate threads have now been replaced by the WildStar hate threads? Can't wait for the full force of AA hate threads in another 30 days.
Wildstar failed because it is a mediocre game based on old school and aged mechanics, with a non existent both literally and metaphorically IP released in an over-saturated market.
The rest about players being used to WoW's "faceroll" PvE and thus not capable of appreciating Wildstar's end game "greatness" is utter BS.
I wonder how many of the WS crowd have cleared WoW's heroic content in a timely manner. Or how many of them have ever participated in 2K + arenas PvP.
Old school mechanics? Can you be more specific.
Or let me put an example.
I'll go to your house with a bat, with the will to use it on you. Will you:
Use your skills to dodge and outrun me, or
Put your faith in a roll dice or a coin throw, to see if I will hit you or don't
Wildstar mechanics relied on the first one where you have the choice to respond (a new mechanic), and not a roll choice (old mechanic from DnD around 1980???). Again, Old school, can you be more specific where?
Again I blame the people. Developers since the beginning said how the game was heading, and yes while there were issues with the implementation, bugs, exploits and many other things, the only thing consistent is that they had a vision on how they want their game to be, and they haveneverlied the community, even when they got attacked by DDOS.
Of course I'm still ruling out 40 men raids due again to The People, not the devs. Also blame WoW LFR for making entry level raiding a joke.
Well, the people are the only ones that matter. They buy the game, pay the sub, and buy the CREDD. If less people than neccisary like and pay for a game, it doesnt matter how good the devs are or how well its programed.
So what if WoW has LFR? You have to work with the market that exists, you cant stick your fingers in your ears, cover your eyes and imagine yourself up a player base that plays the way you want them to play. Did it make players lazy? I would say it made them more independant of guilds and fixed scheduals, thats probably a mix of good and bad. It also provided alternatives, and choices, and they, "the people" chose the path of least resistance, like the vast majority of the human race does in all things.
Wildstar failed because it is a mediocre game based on old school and aged mechanics, with a non existent both literally and metaphorically IP released in an over-saturated market.
The rest about players being used to WoW's "faceroll" PvE and thus not capable of appreciating Wildstar's end game "greatness" is utter BS.
I wonder how many of the WS crowd have cleared WoW's heroic content in a timely manner. Or how many of them have ever participated in 2K + arenas PvP.
Old school mechanics? Can you be more specific.
Or let me put an example.
I'll go to your house with a bat, with the will to use it on you. Will you:
Use your skills to dodge and outrun me, or
Put your faith in a roll dice or a coin throw, to see if I will hit you or don't
Wildstar mechanics relied on the first one where you have the choice to respond (a new mechanic), and not a roll choice (old mechanic from DnD around 1980???). Again, Old school, can you be more specific where?
Again I blame the people. Developers since the beginning said how the game was heading, and yes while there were issues with the implementation, bugs, exploits and many other things, the only thing consistent is that they had a vision on how they want their game to be, and they haveneverlied the community, even when they got attacked by DDOS.
Of course I'm still ruling out 40 men raids due again to The People, not the devs. Also blame WoW LFR for making entry level raiding a joke.
Well, the people are the only ones that matter. They buy the game, pay the sub, and buy the CREDD. If less people than neccisary like and pay for a game, it doesnt matter how good the devs are or how well its programed.
Yea, the only other alternative was that "the people" not sub (and buy credd) in the first place, in which case Wildstar's woefully horrid revenues (as shown by their publically published revenue forecast) would have been even LOWER.
In a what-if world where ONLY the hardcore subbed to WS in the first place, instead of all these "the people" joining in, I doubt Wildstar would have lasted a month due to such horrid revenues. It's "The people" who joined in and brought up months (years, in some cases) of Credd that allowed WS to have the revenue numbers it has today. Without those people, those horridly low revenue numbers would have been even LOWER and that can't possibly have been good for the game.
Again I blame the people. Developers since the beginning said how the game was heading, and yes while there were issues with the implementation, bugs, exploits and many other things, the only thing consistent is that they had a vision on how they want their game to be, and they haveneverlied the community, even when they got attacked by DDOS.
Of course I'm still ruling out 40 men raids due again to The People, not the devs. Also blame WoW LFR for making entry level raiding a joke.
Blaming the people is irrelevant. If those that followed knew what they were getting into, they are probably still playing so you should be happy. Those that didn't and left should also not bother you as they suffered the consequence of their own choices.
Blaming the popularity of the LFR tool in WoW is also pointless since it was out way before WS came to be so either
a) Carbine didn't see how popular it was or weren't worried about it (and those playing agree with this) Or
b) Those players that do enjoy the tool and felt robbed (or whatever else) in WS so left the game because of it should also have no impact to those playing WS.
If WS is fun for you and there are plenty of people for you to play with, why blame anyone? If there isn't, then inventing fault with anyrhing outside the game is, in my opinion, grasping at straws.
You can be threatened by an art style if you think that art style has caused you to react negatively to a game .That game might have had a chance with you had it not had that art style so you feel you must attack that art style choice lest you might come across more game developers who might choose that art style. Hence you voice your objections loudly and make sure no one mistakes you for a kid .The reference to kids and cartoon always make me laugh because I am a grandmother well at my age could be considered an old granny and I love cartoons and in places Japan and Korean where manga and manhwa exist people read comics and watch anime and no one blankets them all as kid's stuff.
All this posturing and critique about art style ,colours and cartoon is so superficial.
Or some people just don't like cartoon artstyle. People don't all have to like the same things. This seems to me seems the classic case of setting up an easy to attack strawman. A small number of people who dislike cartoons in games may fit your little stereotype but I really think the vast majority do not.
You can be threatened by an art style if you think that art style has caused you to react negatively to a game .That game might have had a chance with you had it not had that art style so you feel you must attack that art style choice lest you might come across more game developers who might choose that art style. Hence you voice your objections loudly and make sure no one mistakes you for a kid .The reference to kids and cartoon always make me laugh because I am a grandmother well at my age could be considered an old granny and I love cartoons and in places Japan and Korean where manga and manhwa exist people read comics and watch anime and no one blankets them all as kid's stuff.
All this posturing and critique about art style ,colours and cartoon is so superficial.
Or some people just don't like cartoon artstyle. People don't all have to like the same things. This seems to me seems the classic case of setting up an easy to attack strawman. A small number of people who dislike cartoons in games may fit your little stereotype but I really think the vast majority do not.
I like cartoony in the correct context, I just don't feel that it is suited to a self-professed 'hardcore' game.
Well, i dont thing WS is having alot of hate around compare to for example ESO a few months ago, in fact i thing is in more ignore stage.
Maybe I'm wrong, but people being "Meh, whatever" about an MMO is probably worse than them being angry at it. The latter group tends to be invested enough to get angry, meaning there were a few things they did like about the game, despite whatever may have ticked them off.
It also means they're likely to revisit the game they got angry at somewhere down the line when tempers cool. The game they didn't care about is likely to be forgotten and never revisited.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Well, i dont thing WS is having alot of hate around compare to for example ESO a few months ago, in fact i thing is in more ignore stage.
Maybe I'm wrong, but people being "Meh, whatever" about an MMO is probably worse than them being angry at it. The latter group tends to be invested enough to get angry, meaning there were a few things they did like about the game, despite whatever may have ticked them off.
It also means they're likely to revisit the game they got angry at somewhere down the line when tempers cool. The game they didn't care about is likely to be forgotten and never revisited.
You can see it that way, but I'm pretty 'meh' in the sense that I don't let my emotions get the better of me if something just isn't me for whatever reason I find for my decision to not play a game.
I think there is more to it. The hate has been going on for a while now.
It's because degenerate people love to see things fail & fall. Kind of like when people love to see famous people fall from grace.
Most of the posters in all those hate threads (with their opinions about why the game failed) never even played the game. You can tell by their absurd statements & made up facts. Ask for proof on any of their ridiculous "facts" and they stay shut or disappear. They are just trolls.
I don't hate Wildstar, I had a great time leveling with friends, and enjoyed myself despite the annoying bugs. What made me leave was the rushed PVP season, and the exploits in PVP matches. And just like any e-sport game, once the competition leaves, even those enjoying the game will leave since there is no1 worthy to play against.
Originally posted by cheyane I believe people are threatened by the art style. One guy has been to every Wildstar thread calling it a cartoon. It must really bug him that everyone one of his posts are only to complain about Wildstar. Odd that a game which if you choose to you can basically ignore has garnered this much hate.
I am curious. How does one feel threatened by graphics?
Admittedly, I am one who does not like Wildstar's cartoony art style and I've commented as much on two threads "today." A review of my posting history, however, will show that these are the only two threads about Wildstar I have ever posted in, and I did so today because they were both inquiring as to why players are adverse to the game and I sought to be consistent in my opinion on both threads. I, however, do not hate Wildstar nor would I ever hate any game. But let me set the record straight so that this does not come back to bite me in the backside, it is not so much the cartoony graphics that does not appeal to me as much as the art style. I am not adverse to cartoony graphics as I understand most MMORPGs have cartoony graphics to some degree. The loud colored cartoony art style in Wildstar is just a bit over the top for me though, but that's just a personal preference and the reason I did not even give it a whirl. Some people like it, some people don't. Nothing more, nothing less.
Did you miss out the part where I said the account was created today ?
You can be threatened by an art style if you think that art style has caused you to react negatively to a game .That game might have had a chance with you had it not had that art style so you feel you must attack that art style choice lest you might come across more game developers who might choose that art style. Hence you voice your objections loudly and make sure no one mistakes you for a kid .The reference to kids and cartoon always make me laugh because I am a grandmother well at my age could be considered an old granny and I love cartoons and in places Japan and Korean where manga and manhwa exist people read comics and watch anime and no one blankets them all as kid's stuff.
All this posturing and critique about art style ,colours and cartoon is so superficial.
Rest assured I was not of the opinion that you were specifically referencing my posts. I was, however, somewhat in the same category since I had posted about its graphics in an earlier thread and, as such, felt I fell into the same category, hence my post. That is neither here nor there though. Your point was well taken meriting an explanation which I willingly provided. In that regard, you are correct in your assessment that many voice their opinion on game forums so as to deter similar attributes in future games. I don't know if voicing an opinion so as to make sure one is not mistaken for a kid is relevant though. My frame of mind is such that we are all kids at heart when it come to playing video games. You would be insincere, however, if you did not admit that in general cartoons have a greater appeal to kids than they do adults. That being said ... let's just leave it at some people like cartoony art styles, others don't. That is a subjective preference best left to the individual player. Nothing, at all, superficial about it.
I feel like term has been hijacked. Attunement, it used to mean you have to beat this encounter in order to move on to that encounter. Not you have to grind this much rep in order to try that encounter.
ACTUALLY... they added the LFR for people to see the content first and foremost. People make claims like yours to justify how their MMO is better than WoW. Loot was a by product, but first and foremost it was to allow everyone access to all the content to experience it if they so chose to without relying on a laborious guild process that most could not commit to. If one was driven by challenge and gear then that's what the normal and heroics were for. And quite frankly everyone is going to take the easier route, its human nature.
And its not because people can't complete normals and heoric, it was the time effort involved that deterred many away. I am some of the most skilled players but I don't raid because the commitment involved was to consuming when people don't have time for a 2nd job with RL.
I am not sure what your argument is here??
They added LFR so people didn't have to partake in real raids and still see the content and get loot, which is what I said. By you own admission you don't raid because you don't feel like putting in the time or effort so you just do LFR, which is what I said. LFR is a way for people who like to fly through the content for the heck of it without really trying.
P.S. - I didn't say any MMO is better than WoW. I played WoW for 8 1/2 years and in my opinion WoW on a whole is the best MMO of all time. I don't play W*, but W* does take quite a bit more time and skill to play than WoWs LFR feature. You can argue that point all you want but in the end it's true.
Comments
Cuz -800k + PR team from competitors paid minimum wage to multi acc fake feedback everwhere on interet with cdds software to get a sheep snowball effect.
Your welcome.
/thread.
*hands copypasterino a tin foil hat*
You are* welcome.
It's a subjective observation, which you are then generalizing to a larger group of people, whose reasons for leaving you do not know, but dismiss as "lack of skill" anyway. It's as though you can't fathom (or acknowledge) any other reason why someone would leave a game you clearly enjoy. That's a very dishonest and close-minded way to go about it, and makes you look more like a fanboy trying to indirectly "defend their game", rather than someone genuinely seeking feedback.
This is further evidenced by the fact that you pre-emptively address and then immediately dismiss some other reasons people may not have stuck around, in this paragraph:
"People are going to post behind me and talk about bugs and bots and exploits as to why the game is bad. If you've been following the game at all, Carbine has all but eliminated the Bots, Fixes bugs on a weekly basis and same with exploits."
The bias in your post is about as opaque as a clear glass window.
When you cut through it all, what you're really asking is, "Why don't more people like Wildstar as much as I do?" Of course, you then proceed to try answer your own question, by throwing everyone in a convenient box, labeled "Awful, lazy players, ruined by WoW". This generalization is as misguided as it is silly, considering many people have rejected Wildstar for many of the same reasons they've rejected WoW (as in, they were never WoW players to begin with).
As far as "all the hate"... well that requires some qualification. Are you talking about stuff that can be legitimately considered hate for hate's sake? Or are you including any and all criticism of the game in there? Given the rest of your post, I'm kinda guessing you're including any and all criticism of the game as "hate" - because it's easier to dismiss a lazily constructed strawman, than it is to address a valid, or well-presented criticism (which there has been plenty of).
At the end of the day, when you ask why people seem to be "hating on the game" (as you put it), what they're really doing is voicing their opinion of a game they aren't particularly fond of.
And if that seems like an odd concept to you, well, it's precisely what you are doing in your own opening post when you describe your views with that list of games...
Everquest: First and foremost great game for its time.
DAOC: Great RvR overall solid game.
WoW: Great in the early years til they dumbed it down.
Aion: Bot infested waste of space.
WaR: Fun game was sad to see it go.
AoC: Fun game but no longevity.
GW2: Nice graphics but a fail game.
FFXIV: Great graphics, fun game but lacking Endgame.
AA: Solid Game if you like PvP. A little light on PvE.
Wildstar: Cartoony Graphics, Great combat system and a lot of Endgame.
In that list, you are sharing your opinion of those games, whether good, bad or otherwise. Likewise, others share their opinions of Wildstar, whether good, bad or otherwise.
Now, if one wanted to dismiss your criticism of those games, as you dismiss others' opinions of Wildstar, they could simply ignore your specific points, and throw you into a convenient box labeled "lazy", "hater", or what have you.
Now, would you consider it fair or reasonable for someone to just toss your views aside like that, simply because they don't echo their own? Of course not.
So, perhaps you can see the problem with your OP, and why it's dismissive and insulting to others who happen to have issues with Wildstar.
Did you miss out the part where I said the account was created today ?
You can be threatened by an art style if you think that art style has caused you to react negatively to a game .That game might have had a chance with you had it not had that art style so you feel you must attack that art style choice lest you might come across more game developers who might choose that art style. Hence you voice your objections loudly and make sure no one mistakes you for a kid .The reference to kids and cartoon always make me laugh because I am a grandmother well at my age could be considered an old granny and I love cartoons and in places Japan and Korean where manga and manhwa exist people read comics and watch anime and no one blankets them all as kid's stuff.
All this posturing and critique about art style ,colours and cartoon is so superficial.
Great reply really. I hope OP reads this and realises his double standards.
/end thread.
Pff... "Hate", WS forums were peaceful in comparison to ESO launch and how AA forums are now.
People "hate" this game for the same reason you labeled GW2 a "failure"... Personal opinion/ You can't please everybody. People leave WS not because of one sole reason, but because of a collection of them, people leave this game because: boring quest hub design; linear questing; cartoony graphics; in your face humour; hardcore design; raid=only endgame; very fast-paced combat; etc. You get it now?
Saying WoW made people lazy is very offensive and close-minded, you don't wanna know why people hate WS, you just wanna look for a reason to put people down because they "lacked skill". Seeing your post history you like to complain how "WoW destroyed MMOs and made people lazy", you don't want a discussion, you want to gloat in how much effort you put into the game you like and how every other player wants instant gratification.
As are most complaints about subjective matters. I agree.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
From reading multiple forum posts, there are a LOT of different reasons why people "Hate" (as defined by the OP, where hate apparently includes constructive criticism) Wildstar.
SOME don't like the graphics.
SOME don't like the bad optimization.
SOME don't like the telegraph system.
SOME don't like that you only get one toolbar.
SOME don't like the linear questing system that's the same for all characters past the intro point (which only differs depending on your faction)
SOME don't like the difficulty (SOME say it hurts their wrists. SOME say they just can't keep up. SOME say that they'd rather have a more easy going MMO that they can have a beer while playing etc)
SOME don't like that it doesn't really offer much new in that it's a generic theme park.
SOME don't like how horrible the PVP is.
SOME don't like the bugs.
SOME don't like the "RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG" loot system.
MANY don't like the time-sink of attunement etc (not to be confused with "difficulty", though lots of "hard core" people alas make that confusion)
MANY don't like the fact that at end game, the ONLY thing to really do is raid (I say "MANY" instead of "SOME" because this one crops up a lot more than the others when people say why they left. It's definitely not the only reason, though, as you can see from the long list above). A lot of people log on, do their dailies, and then have nothing else to really do in the week if they can't get into a raiding group.
MANY don't like the (apparent?) lack of population, although that's more the result of the above than a cause in itself (though it is a cascading cause, if you will, in that the lower population will cause even those who like the game to leave eventually. ...or the game to shut down, obviously)
In the end, Wildstar does have some major problems, but it also has a bunch of lesser ones. Some people will try to strawman just one reason for "all the hate" (the most often used one is "hardcore" people saying others are just "lazy" or "don't have skill"), but these people woefully ignore the HUGE list of OTHER problems MANY people have with the game that have nothing to do with "difficulty".
In the end, the vast majority of people who tried Wildstar ended up running into SOMETHING that turned them off from the game. This something differed from person to person but there are so many of these things that most people ran into one eventually. About the only thing people seem to unanimously like is housing. Every where else there's some aspect of the game that made someone say "This something is just not fun, and makes the game really not worth my time (or money in some cases)".
Well, the people are the only ones that matter. They buy the game, pay the sub, and buy the CREDD. If less people than neccisary like and pay for a game, it doesnt matter how good the devs are or how well its programed.
So what if WoW has LFR? You have to work with the market that exists, you cant stick your fingers in your ears, cover your eyes and imagine yourself up a player base that plays the way you want them to play. Did it make players lazy? I would say it made them more independant of guilds and fixed scheduals, thats probably a mix of good and bad. It also provided alternatives, and choices, and they, "the people" chose the path of least resistance, like the vast majority of the human race does in all things.
Yea, the only other alternative was that "the people" not sub (and buy credd) in the first place, in which case Wildstar's woefully horrid revenues (as shown by their publically published revenue forecast) would have been even LOWER.
In a what-if world where ONLY the hardcore subbed to WS in the first place, instead of all these "the people" joining in, I doubt Wildstar would have lasted a month due to such horrid revenues. It's "The people" who joined in and brought up months (years, in some cases) of Credd that allowed WS to have the revenue numbers it has today. Without those people, those horridly low revenue numbers would have been even LOWER and that can't possibly have been good for the game.
Blaming the people is irrelevant. If those that followed knew what they were getting into, they are probably still playing so you should be happy. Those that didn't and left should also not bother you as they suffered the consequence of their own choices.
Blaming the popularity of the LFR tool in WoW is also pointless since it was out way before WS came to be so either
a) Carbine didn't see how popular it was or weren't worried about it (and those playing agree with this) Or
b) Those players that do enjoy the tool and felt robbed (or whatever else) in WS so left the game because of it should also have no impact to those playing WS.
If WS is fun for you and there are plenty of people for you to play with, why blame anyone? If there isn't, then inventing fault with anyrhing outside the game is, in my opinion, grasping at straws.
Or some people just don't like cartoon artstyle. People don't all have to like the same things. This seems to me seems the classic case of setting up an easy to attack strawman. A small number of people who dislike cartoons in games may fit your little stereotype but I really think the vast majority do not.
I like cartoony in the correct context, I just don't feel that it is suited to a self-professed 'hardcore' game.
Attunement isn't really challenging, its just pointless grind and content padding.
MMO players are just less inclined to jump through pointless hoops these days.
Maybe I'm wrong, but people being "Meh, whatever" about an MMO is probably worse than them being angry at it. The latter group tends to be invested enough to get angry, meaning there were a few things they did like about the game, despite whatever may have ticked them off.
It also means they're likely to revisit the game they got angry at somewhere down the line when tempers cool. The game they didn't care about is likely to be forgotten and never revisited.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
You can see it that way, but I'm pretty 'meh' in the sense that I don't let my emotions get the better of me if something just isn't me for whatever reason I find for my decision to not play a game.
It's because degenerate people love to see things fail & fall. Kind of like when people love to see famous people fall from grace.
Most of the posters in all those hate threads (with their opinions about why the game failed) never even played the game. You can tell by their absurd statements & made up facts. Ask for proof on any of their ridiculous "facts" and they stay shut or disappear. They are just trolls.
I don't hate Wildstar, I had a great time leveling with friends, and enjoyed myself despite the annoying bugs. What made me leave was the rushed PVP season, and the exploits in PVP matches. And just like any e-sport game, once the competition leaves, even those enjoying the game will leave since there is no1 worthy to play against.
Rest assured I was not of the opinion that you were specifically referencing my posts. I was, however, somewhat in the same category since I had posted about its graphics in an earlier thread and, as such, felt I fell into the same category, hence my post. That is neither here nor there though. Your point was well taken meriting an explanation which I willingly provided. In that regard, you are correct in your assessment that many voice their opinion on game forums so as to deter similar attributes in future games. I don't know if voicing an opinion so as to make sure one is not mistaken for a kid is relevant though. My frame of mind is such that we are all kids at heart when it come to playing video games. You would be insincere, however, if you did not admit that in general cartoons have a greater appeal to kids than they do adults. That being said ... let's just leave it at some people like cartoony art styles, others don't. That is a subjective preference best left to the individual player. Nothing, at all, superficial about it.
I am not sure what your argument is here??
They added LFR so people didn't have to partake in real raids and still see the content and get loot, which is what I said. By you own admission you don't raid because you don't feel like putting in the time or effort so you just do LFR, which is what I said. LFR is a way for people who like to fly through the content for the heck of it without really trying.
P.S. - I didn't say any MMO is better than WoW. I played WoW for 8 1/2 years and in my opinion WoW on a whole is the best MMO of all time. I don't play W*, but W* does take quite a bit more time and skill to play than WoWs LFR feature. You can argue that point all you want but in the end it's true.