GW2 was never really tough or overwhelming for me (except when I couldn't find any gathering tools at first). Though I guess I had the advantage of playing in the beta + at launch there was a big zerg to run with.
That said, I don't really understand why they would change their waypoint system now. Seems to me like they would want to give people all the possible options to level where they want and seek out events quickly.
The biggest issues me and my friends encountered at the start were caused by the phasing system. We often had huge trouble playing together because of that.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Nice game but after the client crashed three times on the extremely boring quest in the one of the latest episodes of season 2 where you have to interview party goers for information I just thought I cant be bothered with this any more . I had only intended on doing the episodes anyway because I'm killing time before Archeage so I hadn't been intending on staying long anyway . It is good value for money and client crashes are usually rare I just cant face doing that quest again .
Originally posted by Ludwik This is where dev communication would really come in handy. Some kind of insight into why and for what purpose this update is being presented would alleviate concerns.
Actually they did communicate why they made these changes on reddit.
Yeah we thought so too. After tens of thousands of usability testers and interviews with players who tried Gw2 and left leading up to China launch both in NA/EU and in China - we learned we were wrong.
Honestly, we were kind of shocked how many systems, downed included a surprising number of players just didn't understand. For downed, we tried a downed tutorial, building downed into the level 1 tutorial, etc. We found after usability testing with numerous different groups, the best rate of people learning and understanding it came from having it be layered complexity and the solution we went with above. Intuitively that wouldn't have been my guess either initially, but we found people understood it better this way than all other options we tried.
This same level of testing led to the other changes as well. At the end of the day the biggest take away I'd say is: all of us, especially people who go to a reddit to discuss a game, probably know games (and Gw2) really really well. We have millions of users, and a tiny % of them frequent game forums or reddit. Just because all of us, me included, learned those systems well and thought it was all really easy doesn't mean we are the norm
I think that's a totally fair question, as a veteran user I'd wonder that too - why does making the game better for new users benefit me when I want features that benefit me?
The simple answer is: by ensuring the game foundation is solid for new users, we'll be in a place after the feature pack where we can do the kind of things that excite both veteran and new users simultaneously, and we'll be able to retain a much larger percentage of the new or long returning users when they show up. Can't say anything more than that yet - but that's the thinking, you don't need to agree with it, but it's important to know why the decision was made!
I really don't understand this. How can waypoints and downed state be too confusing? If the players they are trying to attract are that bad at games, then those players shouldn't be in that game, it just ruins the experience for everyone. Guild Wars 2 has one of the best experiences for a new player or character.
They're not, it's really more the case of people being set in their familiar ways and just refusing to learn new things. I still remember those comments from the first few weeks about how people were straight up dying in racial starting zones because they couldn't grasp you don't really go toe-to-toe with enemies in GW2 but instead you have to dodge their attacks, move around, etc.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Wouldn't it be great if dev board meetings were video recorded so we could watch all the stupidity in action?
I would pay to watch them.
But seriously, tutorial for GW2? Ok, I'm out to heal the head, this facepalm gonna hurt a bit. Would be a nice if someone post a name list of Anet developers, so I can in future avoid games where they put their hands.
I have uninstalled and reinstalled this game time after time because I want to see it all. But it is the biggest piece of you know what going. Last time I got back Lion's Arch had been destroyed and I had no idea what was going on. The economy is crap and and level 80 is no place to go. Bought ArcheAge 4 weeks ago and am uninstalling GW2 for last time and deleting it, crossing out passwords and never reading another article on the biggest disappointment of this decade, well maybe after ESO.
Good luck on getting any fresh suckers for this pos.
There was absolutely no need to do anything to the leveling experience. This is just arenanet trying to show people that they know better. The leveling experience and new player experience in GW2 was the BEST out of any MMO I have ever played and continues to be the shining bright spot in the game. The problem is the "end game"(although, unless Arenanet has changed tunes, there is no endgame in their game...the entire game is endgame, right?). They continue to pump out living story crap, a feature no one asked for and is one of the most controversial topics and decisions they have made...they abandon dungeons, precursor debacle, etc.
Who is making these decisions? Horrible..just horrible. Go ahead and waste more development time and money on something that the playerbase didnt ask for and frankly, the game didnt need. Out of everyone I have ever come across when wandering around Tyria, no one said "my god this is a brutal leveling experience". But people do complain about the amount of grind at 80..maybe do something about that, Arenanet.
Utterly worthless.
The developers at arenanet have no idea how to develop a game. At this point, especially after this update, its again a useless update for me, I will probably follow suit with other folks and uninstall the game. The only reason I exist on their official forums is to troll people and maybe open a few eyes into how godamn horrible this game has become and how much damage arenanet has done to what could have been the best opportunity in the last 5 years.
I don't like the route they have been taking the game for quite a while. No idea what goes on behind the curtains but it really seems like we are told one thing, and then they deliver something completely unrelated.
Originally posted by Arskaaa "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Originally posted by FelixMajor I don't like the route they have been taking the game for quite a while. No idea what goes on behind the curtains but it really seems like we are told one thing, and then they deliver something completely unrelated.
Well, at least they're incredibly consistent on doing this.
There do seem to be some rather odd decisions. The game was lauded as a B2P game but the CS has become more and more pervasive. They keep destroying and rebuilding LA- why? I personally think the living story is a very poor substitute for an expansion. And now they are going to introduce unnecessary tutorials when the game is already 2+ years old....
Originally posted by FelixMajor I don't like the route they have been taking the game for quite a while. No idea what goes on behind the curtains but it really seems like we are told one thing, and then they deliver something completely unrelated.
Well, at least they're incredibly consistent on doing this.
"We will paint this fence . . . white!"
A month later the fence is orange.
"So why is the fence orange?"
"No it's white, we said so."
"k"
My response to this is:
"But no one asked for or wanted the fence to be painted at all. We thought it was fine the way it is. But the lawn needs to be mowed! It hasn't been mowed since you moved in 2 years ago!!! Please please!"
There do seem to be some rather odd decisions. The game was lauded as a B2P game but the CS has become more and more pervasive. I personally think the living story is a very poor substitute for an expansion. And now they are going to introduce unnecessary tutorials when the game is already 2+ years old....
The funny thing is that WoW does this. WoW is constantly revamping their early content and trying to make the game more accessible. But WoW is 9+ years old? 10 years old? Thats 10 years of expansions, content, systems, classes, skills, etc. GW2 is 2 years old. Is this really necessary? Focus on keeping the players you have by giving them what they want instead of assuming.
I never cared much for tutorials myself and had no problem figuring out how the game worked (and that was in the beta where all the content actually were pretty hard, even the personal story).
Locking out content is not really a good way of learning players how to play though, but neither is putting a huge tutorial in the start.
What would be fine is a voluntary tutorial area once you enter your home instance the first time instead, that wont affect us people who like to learn as we play since we just can click "no". You do have friends in your home area, let them teach you how to play if you want to.
There do seem to be some rather odd decisions. The game was lauded as a B2P game but the CS has become more and more pervasive. They keep destroying and rebuilding LA- why? I personally think the living story is a very poor substitute for an expansion. And now they are going to introduce unnecessary tutorials when the game is already 2+ years old....
The game is B2P, as for the cashshop I just bought that Katana skin, cost me 80 gold which isn't so hard to get.
Anything lazy people can buy for real money you easily can get for gold and frankly is there very little useful stuff in there besides bank and characterslot if you don't count the vanity skins.
Yeap... if they did a tutorial right at the start before you go fight centaurs or ghosts or Inquest, the game would definitely be less daunting.
For instance, they could down you right at the start to show you the downed state, they could prompt you to dodge so you know what dodging is.
Then again, people tend to skip tutorials because they think they've played every MMO before so this route might be because of that.
Yep, crapload of people think they are best and dont need a tutorial and the same people whine that the game dont have a tutorial when indeed it has one at the launcher window, even dodging are explained here, fancy that.
well,for me ,the 1st thing ill do when i enter a game is to view game options,control options,general options,etc.so why u dont view the options?options clearly tell u to press one key to dodge,isnt it?
Teaching new players how to dodge,or use a wp(really?)wtf, is the least of their problems. I just played half through the latest LS chapter and I couldn't keep my eyes open. It has derailed to cheap soap opera status.If I hear "Jory" once more I'll rip my ears off. Anet has a talent for taking something nice and then applying overkill doses of it until you can no longer stand it. Like dodge. I won't go into the WvW and sPvP is stale,and fractal rewards need a revamp,and lately the game's been getting old fast,and the 2 new maps added are 1/3 of a normal map,etc etc. What is more important is that you can now access your finishers via the hero panel,like you did before,but from a different super cool button in the hero panel,not like the old one that was boring and ugly.And you got all your minis with you.Choosing a new mini can refresh your gaming while playing the same 2 years old content. Aren't you excited?
GW2 needs many things, but easing new players into the "mechanics" isn't one of them. I started playing a month ago, and by level 10 I understood exactly what to do.
I have no idea why they are wasting development resources on this, oh wait yes I do, it's because this game is everyone on this sites beloved B2P business model. How does a company make more money once their initial sales influx is over, sell to more people, which means change the beginning of the game to attract more players. It's clear that ANet doesn't care how long people play because the bulk of their money is made off box sales.
When I played GW2 at launch, that was the best new player experience I think I ever witnessed. I've played mmorpgs since 1998, so I have a pretty large library of games to compare it to. Earning experience and levelling up came naturally from just exploring and following the main quest line. GW2 needs to enrich the end game more though. I bought it, played it for a month or two until I reached the level cap. I explored the map 100%. Did all of the jumping puzzles. One of my favorite mmos was Dark Age of Camelot, so the reason I bought the game to begin with was for the WvWvW system they had. It was such a ridiculous disappointment. I eventually quit playing because it bored me to tears.
Last week I logged in for the first time in almost two years and not much has changed. Every single aspect of this game is still a grinder. I'm not sure anything fun occurs end game. People still run around the map in circles doing event chains. Since I quit playing there is now a magic find grind, an achievement grind, and a dailies grind. I cannot understand how a game with such an excellent base couldn't have expanded upon it in two years except to add more grinding. Its as if the person in charge is an mmorpg hater who just dismisses all mmos as grinders. He tells his minions to go forth, create more grind! Meanwhile, every flaw that existed since launch is still present. I wonder if the people in charge of the game since launch are not the same people who made it. What was once an innovative game at launch has driven itself into a ditch. New player experience should be the lowest priority possible.
What I don't understand is why do "new players" need tutorials or some kind of help to start playing a game? Whenever I try a new MMO for the first time, I experience everything for myself. When I played my very first MMO 10 years ago no one was there to hold my hand and I learnt everything ALONE. In GW2 I only needed help with jumping puzzles and I looked them up on Youtube instead of whining in the game. Am I just too smart and others are so stupid that they can't do anything alone or what? Common sense, anyone? : /
Comments
GW2 was never really tough or overwhelming for me (except when I couldn't find any gathering tools at first). Though I guess I had the advantage of playing in the beta + at launch there was a big zerg to run with.
That said, I don't really understand why they would change their waypoint system now. Seems to me like they would want to give people all the possible options to level where they want and seek out events quickly.
The biggest issues me and my friends encountered at the start were caused by the phasing system. We often had huge trouble playing together because of that.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
/donstinfoilhat
This will be followed by selling the level 20 experience scrolls in the gem store.
They're not, it's really more the case of people being set in their familiar ways and just refusing to learn new things. I still remember those comments from the first few weeks about how people were straight up dying in racial starting zones because they couldn't grasp you don't really go toe-to-toe with enemies in GW2 but instead you have to dodge their attacks, move around, etc.
If the downed state was like guild wars 1 I would understand having a tutorial explaining it but guild wars 2 death penalty is not THAT bad.
Any person with a brain can hover their mouse cursor on the new icon next to the buffs to see what is it.
I would pay to watch them.
But seriously, tutorial for GW2? Ok, I'm out to heal the head, this facepalm gonna hurt a bit. Would be a nice if someone post a name list of Anet developers, so I can in future avoid games where they put their hands.
I have uninstalled and reinstalled this game time after time because I want to see it all. But it is the biggest piece of you know what going. Last time I got back Lion's Arch had been destroyed and I had no idea what was going on. The economy is crap and and level 80 is no place to go. Bought ArcheAge 4 weeks ago and am uninstalling GW2 for last time and deleting it, crossing out passwords and never reading another article on the biggest disappointment of this decade, well maybe after ESO.
Good luck on getting any fresh suckers for this pos.
There was absolutely no need to do anything to the leveling experience. This is just arenanet trying to show people that they know better. The leveling experience and new player experience in GW2 was the BEST out of any MMO I have ever played and continues to be the shining bright spot in the game. The problem is the "end game"(although, unless Arenanet has changed tunes, there is no endgame in their game...the entire game is endgame, right?). They continue to pump out living story crap, a feature no one asked for and is one of the most controversial topics and decisions they have made...they abandon dungeons, precursor debacle, etc.
Who is making these decisions? Horrible..just horrible. Go ahead and waste more development time and money on something that the playerbase didnt ask for and frankly, the game didnt need. Out of everyone I have ever come across when wandering around Tyria, no one said "my god this is a brutal leveling experience". But people do complain about the amount of grind at 80..maybe do something about that, Arenanet.
Utterly worthless.
The developers at arenanet have no idea how to develop a game. At this point, especially after this update, its again a useless update for me, I will probably follow suit with other folks and uninstall the game. The only reason I exist on their official forums is to troll people and maybe open a few eyes into how godamn horrible this game has become and how much damage arenanet has done to what could have been the best opportunity in the last 5 years.
already got bunch of them for free
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Well, at least they're incredibly consistent on doing this.
"We will paint this fence . . . white!"
A month later the fence is orange.
"So why is the fence orange?"
"No it's white, we said so."
"k"
There do seem to be some rather odd decisions. The game was lauded as a B2P game but the CS has become more and more pervasive. They keep destroying and rebuilding LA- why? I personally think the living story is a very poor substitute for an expansion. And now they are going to introduce unnecessary tutorials when the game is already 2+ years old....
My response to this is:
"But no one asked for or wanted the fence to be painted at all. We thought it was fine the way it is. But the lawn needs to be mowed! It hasn't been mowed since you moved in 2 years ago!!! Please please!"
The funny thing is that WoW does this. WoW is constantly revamping their early content and trying to make the game more accessible. But WoW is 9+ years old? 10 years old? Thats 10 years of expansions, content, systems, classes, skills, etc. GW2 is 2 years old. Is this really necessary? Focus on keeping the players you have by giving them what they want instead of assuming.
That's ok, a variety of scrolls were data mined going all the way up to instant level 60...maybe you would be interested in that? lol
I never cared much for tutorials myself and had no problem figuring out how the game worked (and that was in the beta where all the content actually were pretty hard, even the personal story).
Locking out content is not really a good way of learning players how to play though, but neither is putting a huge tutorial in the start.
What would be fine is a voluntary tutorial area once you enter your home instance the first time instead, that wont affect us people who like to learn as we play since we just can click "no". You do have friends in your home area, let them teach you how to play if you want to.
The game is B2P, as for the cashshop I just bought that Katana skin, cost me 80 gold which isn't so hard to get.
Anything lazy people can buy for real money you easily can get for gold and frankly is there very little useful stuff in there besides bank and characterslot if you don't count the vanity skins.
Yep, crapload of people think they are best and dont need a tutorial and the same people whine that the game dont have a tutorial when indeed it has one at the launcher window, even dodging are explained here, fancy that.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/manual/
But you need to read which makes it kinda hard for some I guess.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Teaching new players how to dodge,or use a wp(really?)wtf, is the least of their problems.
I just played half through the latest LS chapter and I couldn't keep my eyes open.
It has derailed to cheap soap opera status.If I hear "Jory" once more I'll rip my ears off.
Anet has a talent for taking something nice and then applying overkill doses of it until you can no longer stand it.
Like dodge.
I won't go into the WvW and sPvP is stale,and fractal rewards need a revamp,and lately the game's been getting old fast,and the 2 new maps added are 1/3 of a normal map,etc etc.
What is more important is that you can now access your finishers via the hero panel,like you did before,but from a different super cool button in the hero panel,not like the old one that was boring and ugly.And you got all your minis with you.Choosing a new mini can refresh your gaming while playing the same 2 years old content.
Aren't you excited?
P.S Dodge
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
GW2 needs many things, but easing new players into the "mechanics" isn't one of them. I started playing a month ago, and by level 10 I understood exactly what to do.
I have no idea why they are wasting development resources on this, oh wait yes I do, it's because this game is everyone on this sites beloved B2P business model. How does a company make more money once their initial sales influx is over, sell to more people, which means change the beginning of the game to attract more players. It's clear that ANet doesn't care how long people play because the bulk of their money is made off box sales.
Sub-less models FTW!!
When I played GW2 at launch, that was the best new player experience I think I ever witnessed. I've played mmorpgs since 1998, so I have a pretty large library of games to compare it to. Earning experience and levelling up came naturally from just exploring and following the main quest line. GW2 needs to enrich the end game more though. I bought it, played it for a month or two until I reached the level cap. I explored the map 100%. Did all of the jumping puzzles. One of my favorite mmos was Dark Age of Camelot, so the reason I bought the game to begin with was for the WvWvW system they had. It was such a ridiculous disappointment. I eventually quit playing because it bored me to tears.
Last week I logged in for the first time in almost two years and not much has changed. Every single aspect of this game is still a grinder. I'm not sure anything fun occurs end game. People still run around the map in circles doing event chains. Since I quit playing there is now a magic find grind, an achievement grind, and a dailies grind. I cannot understand how a game with such an excellent base couldn't have expanded upon it in two years except to add more grinding. Its as if the person in charge is an mmorpg hater who just dismisses all mmos as grinders. He tells his minions to go forth, create more grind! Meanwhile, every flaw that existed since launch is still present. I wonder if the people in charge of the game since launch are not the same people who made it. What was once an innovative game at launch has driven itself into a ditch. New player experience should be the lowest priority possible.