Originally posted by Battlerock talks are still in place with reference to raising the sub fee an additional $5, how is that justified?
This is the first I've heard about there being talks about them raising the subscription fee. Do you have a link that I could read? Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
Originally posted by Superman0X The customer service and operations group did their layoff ~4 months ago. This layoff is the development team. This is the second such layoff for them (the first was at launch, as a normal reduction in staff.
I was aware of the services and operations layoffs a few months after release, but do you have a source that it was development? Granted, though... the specifically said that there is still a large group to make content. So that is the likely case, based on all existing evidence.
I don't think that it is "non-news", it's just that it will be twisted by everyone and not just taken it at it's simplest form. The information is good to know!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is SOP and really shouldn't even be news. Especially with an inflammatory title like that to get clicks, for the masses that don't read the articles, just the titles, it spells doom when it's nothing more than standard practice for an online game that has settled in post-release.
Stating that ZOS 'reduced' their workforce is a simple factual statement that is true regardless of how many staff remain at the studio. If I remove one million from a billion I''ve still reduced a figure that remains large after the fact. There were layoffs, which is news regardless of the reason behind them, and those layoffs reduced the workforce available at ZOS. Simple as that. There is no doom-and-glooming going on here. We're just reporting the news. There was nothing sensationalized or inflammatory about the headline or the report.
Just five months after The Elder Scrolls Online MMO went live, developer ZeniMax Online Studios has laid off an unspecified number of employees.
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The layoffs at ZeniMax Online were confirmed by Pete Hines, vice president of PR and marketing at publisher Bethesda Softworks. "As is the norm for games of this type, we had ramped up a large workforce to develop a game of vast scale, and ramped up our customer service to handle the expected questions and community needs of The Elder Scrolls Online at launch," he said in a statement sent to Joystiq. "Now that we are nearly 6 months post launch, we have a thriving online community in a game that runs smoothly."
"We remain strongly committed to The Elder Scrolls Online, and continue to invest heavily to develop new content for PC players, prepare the game for its console launch, and handle our planned expansion into important international territories," he said.
----
The number of employees affected by the layoffs was not revealed.
Originally posted by Battlerock Despite reducing staff, talks are still in place with reference to raising the sub fee an additional $5, how is that justified?
Just to clear up some of the confusion we’re seeing in this discussion, we are not planning to raise the subscription price for The Elder Scrolls Online.
Originally posted by Battlerock Despite reducing staff, talks are still in place with reference to raising the sub fee an additional $5, how is that justified?
Just to clear up some of the confusion we’re seeing in this discussion, we are not planning to raise the subscription price for The Elder Scrolls Online.
Could you clear up the confusion with SuperData while you are here?
I suppose it is the exclusion to the rule in that WoW constantly adds more and more people to maintain server stability and add content despite losing more people each year, and how FFXIV keeps on increasing the amount of people working on their project as well.
Most do let go a part of their workforce, but mostly it is attributed to other factors. Although the Public Relations is correct in that it is a normal thing for most MMOs. Though I usually atttribute that to
1) An underperforming product that did not meet the criteria for maintaining the current team size
2) The want for more money with less overall costs (presumable the mega server helps with less overall costs already); this will result in less overall content than the full team by nature of what it is (oft coming in smaller, but quicker doses to pull wool over the eyes).
3) Truly not needing more workers who already know the systems and could be of use in the future for expansions (directed to work on such); with regards to this, why would you let go people if all is going well? It takes twice as long to get new workers acclimated with your setup.
What of the console version? Surely more work is needed for that. I hate speculation and PR talk. Maybe those who were let go were server related as they said (though still does not negate much of the previous points) and that their Megaservers just need less work and maintenance than other games who have the income to constantly add staff.
If the game's profitable then it's not by definition a failure as people seem to like shouting; though it is worrying whenever a PR guy steps up and says it's "normal" to do something when people familiar with the process are in the crowd.
While everyone I know who bought the game has quit, and the RP guild I used to help run that moved there came back to WoW a few weeks ago, I still believe the game to be healthy. So this move just makes me quirk an eyebrow. Though again I do not not the process of their Megaserver nor their situation. Megaservers are still an enigma with me as I don't have experience with them.
That's a longwinded way of saying the game is not doing well. So instead of just saying it out right, you just beat around the bush.
Did you get scared by all the posts before yours ;D
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I'm constantly amazed that people want to continue working in this industry. It's NORMAL to get laid off in the games industry -- for a guy with a family, the thought of working in an industry where lay-offs are considered SOP is horrifying. Even managerial positions get cut pretty frequently. Couple that type of job security with the soul-crushing hours during crunch and it seems like a great way to kill people's passion for making games.
Working on video games seems like a young person's gig to me.
Yep, it's a pretty standard practice that all MMOs and even some single player games do.
I'm glad to hear things are running well.
Is it? just few months after release?
How come GW2 didn't follow this standard practise? it is only now after almost 2 years that 2 people left GW2 team and that also on their own terms and were not fired.
I didn't say every company follows it flawlessly. "Pretty standard practice =/= everyone does it!"
They could've just moved resources around, or never announced their layoffs, or even just let go of some temps they had working on the project.
I think some people also don't take in consideration contract work. A.Net could of had a large force of contract workers who weren't laid off. Their contracts just ended.
I'm constantly amazed that people want to continue working in this industry. It's NORMAL to get laid off in the games industry -- for a guy with a family, the thought of working in an industry where lay-offs are considered SOP is horrifying. Even managerial positions get cut pretty frequently. Couple that type of job security with the soul-crushing hours during crunch and it seems like a great way to kill people's passion for making games.
Working on video games seems like a young person's gig to me.
Engineering and Construction has worked that way for decades.
once its built its done
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I'm constantly amazed that people want to continue working in this industry. It's NORMAL to get laid off in the games industry -- for a guy with a family, the thought of working in an industry where lay-offs are considered SOP is horrifying. Even managerial positions get cut pretty frequently. Couple that type of job security with the soul-crushing hours during crunch and it seems like a great way to kill people's passion for making games.
Working on video games seems like a young person's gig to me.
Engineering and Construction has worked that way for decades.
once its built its done
Yeah, and they go on to work on the next project. Game developers get canned and have to go job hunting again. When I was younger, I had a summer job with a family owned general contracting company. Once we finished one job, we weren't suddenly out of work.
Originally posted by Dreamo84 It is common practice. But some companies like ArenaNet and Blizzard increased their workforce after launching WoW and GW2 respectively.
Doesn't ultimately mean anything as people will just decide for theirselves based on their biased opinion whether the game/company are successful or not. Actual reports mean nothing to many "players".
Well they needed someone to run the vast cash shops they both have. Pets and gold is serious business!
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
I work for a large bank in their corporate offices. Every 3 years there are layoffs. Every 3 years they try to cut expenses. Meanwhile the bank's revenues are fine, we continue to gobble up smaller banks, and we are headed to be a top 10 bank soon. Layoffs don't necessarily mean something bad. Sometimes it means something good for cost/efficiency while maintaining revenues.
I'm constantly amazed that people want to continue working in this industry. It's NORMAL to get laid off in the games industry -- for a guy with a family, the thought of working in an industry where lay-offs are considered SOP is horrifying. Even managerial positions get cut pretty frequently. Couple that type of job security with the soul-crushing hours during crunch and it seems like a great way to kill people's passion for making games.
Working on video games seems like a young person's gig to me.
Engineering and Construction has worked that way for decades.
once its built its done
Yeah, and they go on to work on the next project. Game developers get canned and have to go job hunting again. When I was younger, I had a summer job with a family owned general contracting company. Once we finished one job, we weren't suddenly out of work.
That is incorrect.
I used to be in that industry and its fairly common to be worried about your employement. Your life is project to project which may or may not involve the same company. It depends on a lot of factors.
Construction is much more unstable than Engineering however what makes some of those jobs attractive (like drafting) is that they offer good pay for the skill level because of the employement risk
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Layoffs are standard following the "modern" MMOs that ususally have a light decline, but I still find it particular that they're reducing their workforce when console release is in ~4 months
Yes I agree it is a basic business procedure but only one used when your company is not making the money to keep as many people employed .
Companies that are doing well and have too much of a workload have to employ new staff and companies that are not doing so well have to lay off staff to save money .
This does mean the game isn't doing as well as it did at the start I suppose few games do so it doesn't mean it can't survive but its obviously not making the kind of money that Zenimax hoped for .
Unlike some people I think a free to play conversion is at least a year away . I think they will milk the console releases first and see how that does . I'm guessing it may even take 2-3 years to change business models .
I'm happy to wait I have plenty of superior games to play in the meantime .
In and of itself I am not sure layoffs mean much in this day and age (although they should) but when combined with the slower pace of new content that we have seen in this game and the complete lack of new places to go since Craglorn I think it kind of tells that this game didn't meet expectations. Plus this game isn't though development yet as it hasn't been released on consoles yet. It seems to me they don't expect it to do well on consoles or they would be ramping up efforts there instead of downsizing them.
Comments
they killed Virtual Reality projects but went ahead with consoles.....fucking brilliant!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
agree, is there a linked source about this?
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"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Click bait, non-news.
This site gets better & better everyday.
I don't think that it is "non-news", it's just that it will be twisted by everyone and not just taken it at it's simplest form. The information is good to know!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
No, I don't see that happening any time soon.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Its one thing complaining about MMO's reducing work force, but it truly sucks when you get to see messages from people that just lost their job.
Stating that ZOS 'reduced' their workforce is a simple factual statement that is true regardless of how many staff remain at the studio. If I remove one million from a billion I''ve still reduced a figure that remains large after the fact. There were layoffs, which is news regardless of the reason behind them, and those layoffs reduced the workforce available at ZOS. Simple as that. There is no doom-and-glooming going on here. We're just reporting the news. There was nothing sensationalized or inflammatory about the headline or the report.
Just five months after The Elder Scrolls Online MMO went live, developer ZeniMax Online Studios has laid off an unspecified number of employees.
----
The layoffs at ZeniMax Online were confirmed by Pete Hines, vice president of PR and marketing at publisher Bethesda Softworks. "As is the norm for games of this type, we had ramped up a large workforce to develop a game of vast scale, and ramped up our customer service to handle the expected questions and community needs of The Elder Scrolls Online at launch," he said in a statement sent to Joystiq. "Now that we are nearly 6 months post launch, we have a thriving online community in a game that runs smoothly."
"We remain strongly committed to The Elder Scrolls Online, and continue to invest heavily to develop new content for PC players, prepare the game for its console launch, and handle our planned expansion into important international territories," he said.
----
The number of employees affected by the layoffs was not revealed.
Just to clear up some of the confusion we’re seeing in this discussion, we are not planning to raise the subscription price for The Elder Scrolls Online.
Could you clear up the confusion with SuperData while you are here?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
That's a longwinded way of saying the game is not doing well. So instead of just saying it out right, you just beat around the bush.
Did you get scared by all the posts before yours ;D
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I'm constantly amazed that people want to continue working in this industry. It's NORMAL to get laid off in the games industry -- for a guy with a family, the thought of working in an industry where lay-offs are considered SOP is horrifying. Even managerial positions get cut pretty frequently. Couple that type of job security with the soul-crushing hours during crunch and it seems like a great way to kill people's passion for making games.
Working on video games seems like a young person's gig to me.
I think some people also don't take in consideration contract work. A.Net could of had a large force of contract workers who weren't laid off. Their contracts just ended.
Engineering and Construction has worked that way for decades.
once its built its done
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Yeah, and they go on to work on the next project. Game developers get canned and have to go job hunting again. When I was younger, I had a summer job with a family owned general contracting company. Once we finished one job, we weren't suddenly out of work.
Well they needed someone to run the vast cash shops they both have. Pets and gold is serious business!
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
There Is Always Hope!
That is incorrect.
I used to be in that industry and its fairly common to be worried about your employement. Your life is project to project which may or may not involve the same company. It depends on a lot of factors.
Construction is much more unstable than Engineering however what makes some of those jobs attractive (like drafting) is that they offer good pay for the skill level because of the employement risk
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Yes I agree it is a basic business procedure but only one used when your company is not making the money to keep as many people employed .
Companies that are doing well and have too much of a workload have to employ new staff and companies that are not doing so well have to lay off staff to save money .
This does mean the game isn't doing as well as it did at the start I suppose few games do so it doesn't mean it can't survive but its obviously not making the kind of money that Zenimax hoped for .
Unlike some people I think a free to play conversion is at least a year away . I think they will milk the console releases first and see how that does . I'm guessing it may even take 2-3 years to change business models .
I'm happy to wait I have plenty of superior games to play in the meantime .